or play a system that doesn't need fixing for us to really enjoy it... duh.
- Status
I would think balancing out what enemies you present with the party's enjoyment level, both subjective elements, would be up to the DM.
or play a system that doesn't need fixing for us to really enjoy it... duh.[/QUOTE]
Sure, if you want to play something that doesn't exist. (your complaint about the combat taking too long is way to subjective to ever be fixed, as someone else will dislike it taking so little time, and it's also something that is easily fixable on your end, unlike Dave's, who's complaint i misunderstood at first, who want the possibility to make a character who's not combat focused, which does require extra stuff to be added). But maybe if they add an official rule on how to scale back HP to make fights go faster you'd find it easier (i recall them talking about something like that, or maybe it was about monsters with less HP).
Now there's a better way of putting it... yup, it is very annoying now that everyone gets the same 2/4/4/7 spread on "stuff that's more or less a spell". Some variation would be nicer.fade said:
doomdragon6
Staff member
Now I'm tempted to try 3.5e.
But I'm scared.
But I'm scared.
huh. gee, now that you put it that way, I guess I should have realized you were talking entirely out of your ass earlier and should have regarded your posts as the wastes of space they truly are.
---------- Post added at 06:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:32 PM ----------
Here's what you do. You make a character. Then you roll a d20 and hope it's high.Now I'm tempted to try 3.5e.
But I'm scared.
You're really making people kick themselves for not joining your one-shot games...
Good for them.
Well seriously, look at your attitude towards it. It doesn't exactly resonate the sense of a DM looking to create a fun game experience. If you hate 4e, why did you want to do games of it?
Furthermore, you complain about 4e being limiting, and then when Lien says you can adjust it on those subjective terms (as you can really do with ANY game system), you complain that you shouldn't have to. If that's the case, the real issue isn't that it's limiting, it's that it fails to limit you in the way you wish to be limited.
Furthermore, you complain about 4e being limiting, and then when Lien says you can adjust it on those subjective terms (as you can really do with ANY game system), you complain that you shouldn't have to. If that's the case, the real issue isn't that it's limiting, it's that it fails to limit you in the way you wish to be limited.
That was back when I liked it. Now I don't. Attitudes change.
I never complained about it being limiting. I complained that I didn't enjoy it, with slowness being one of my primary. I said I tried adjustments. Halving HP was just one of the things I tried. Also tried to have damage be a save DC for enemies to make, with degrees of failure determining how screwed up the enemies are. I tried running combat similarly to skill challenges. The methods sped up combat well. Still, my group and I would rather play something else. @lien insists again and again that I should just fix it more until it's fun. I tried fixing it. I want to play something that I don't have to experiment and tinker with to have fun with it. I found systems that I have fun with with little modification. I play those. Stop telling me to play 4e.
If I wanted to run a oneshot now, I'd run it in the systems I have fun with. Not 4e. I wouldn't have fun with 4e, so there's no way my players would have fun playing 4e with me.
I never complained about it being limiting. I complained that I didn't enjoy it, with slowness being one of my primary. I said I tried adjustments. Halving HP was just one of the things I tried. Also tried to have damage be a save DC for enemies to make, with degrees of failure determining how screwed up the enemies are. I tried running combat similarly to skill challenges. The methods sped up combat well. Still, my group and I would rather play something else. @lien insists again and again that I should just fix it more until it's fun. I tried fixing it. I want to play something that I don't have to experiment and tinker with to have fun with it. I found systems that I have fun with with little modification. I play those. Stop telling me to play 4e.
If I wanted to run a oneshot now, I'd run it in the systems I have fun with. Not 4e. I wouldn't have fun with 4e, so there's no way my players would have fun playing 4e with me.
C
Chummer
I also agree that every class is like all the othes somewhat.
Really aside from the name all the "powers" come off as the same thing.
Really aside from the name all the "powers" come off as the same thing.
Ah, ze old "pretend you only marginally tried and then whack people on the head with the actual amount of trying when they call you out on it" trick... well played.
M
Mr. Lawface
I just starting running a 1st level 3.5 game after playing nothing but 4th edition for about a year. Holy shit are 1st level characters weak in 3.5. They have ridiculously small amounts of hitpoints. Luckily, they will be leveling up soon.
I don't know... Saryon tends to miss more often than not as a Healing Cleric... our group had a blast at him failing... it even provided comedic results in RP situations. DnD is all about what you make it to be. I seriously hope, that the hate that I'm reading is coming from people who actually seriously played the 4th edition.. or played it beyond one or two shot sessions. Or else.... fail.
C
Chummer
I was there at the switch to 3rd.
Honestly I found 3rd ed to be great step up.
I dont miss Thac0 at all. Or race/class restrictions. Or the different xp levels for the classes. Or the multi/duel classing rules. etc etc etc.
Honestly I found 3rd ed to be great step up.
I dont miss Thac0 at all. Or race/class restrictions. Or the different xp levels for the classes. Or the multi/duel classing rules. etc etc etc.
Dave
Staff member
Yeah, 3 felt like a step up from 2. 2 had a lot of issues. Now, 1 to 2 felt like a clusterfuck of epic proportions. In fact, the 1-2 feels a lot like the 3-4 debacle.
My biggest issue still stems with the fact that balance should not mean that all characters are the same. ALL characters get x combat powers at x level, x utility powers at x level, etc. All characters are basically trained in all skills with the biggest difference being 5 points. So a 6th level barbarian who has never been in a city before has a lockpick skill of [stat]+3 while a thief who has trained in the art and the same DEX has 5 points more. Wha-?
So 4e has killed individuality, skills and the playability of non-combat style characters. But combat is very detailed. Thanks for turning my RPG into a miniatures strategy game.
My biggest issue still stems with the fact that balance should not mean that all characters are the same. ALL characters get x combat powers at x level, x utility powers at x level, etc. All characters are basically trained in all skills with the biggest difference being 5 points. So a 6th level barbarian who has never been in a city before has a lockpick skill of [stat]+3 while a thief who has trained in the art and the same DEX has 5 points more. Wha-?
So 4e has killed individuality, skills and the playability of non-combat style characters. But combat is very detailed. Thanks for turning my RPG into a miniatures strategy game.
Meh, I like both, and I RP more in my Thursday night online 4e game than in any other I've ever played.
Makes me like the game more.
The part of me that likes solving puzzles and coming up with ridiculous battle strategies prefers 4e, and the part of me that likes flexibility and individualism likes 3.5e.
*shrug*
They both have their strengths and weaknesses, so whatever floats yer boat.
Makes me like the game more.
The part of me that likes solving puzzles and coming up with ridiculous battle strategies prefers 4e, and the part of me that likes flexibility and individualism likes 3.5e.
*shrug*
They both have their strengths and weaknesses, so whatever floats yer boat.
Yup, those are annoying... they really should have only made class skills be half your level, with Training upping it to 3/4 of your level for class skills, with non-class skills getting only the 1/4 from training. (but you can get more the 5 points of difference based on your ability scores)
And the powers stuff is sad, but i for one can't see how they could have done it differently and still have the at-will/encounter/daily stuff... (though they could have easily kept the wizard spellbook being able to have spells added from scrolls in it).
Well they get to learn 2 powers instead of the 1 everyone else does, and at the beginning of the day choose which to prepare, and you can get a 3rd with the Extended Spellbook feat... but it's a hard cry from being able to learn them all.
Well i was thinking more along the lines of 3rd edition spellbooks, where you could copy spells from scrolls... that way the wizard could go library raiding... "what, you want me to help you kill evil guy X... does he have a library? Dibs on all spell scrolls"
doomdragon6
Staff member
I'd love rituals if they didn't cost so damn much to cast in components.
My number one complaint with the game is that EVERYTHING costs way too much. Why the hell would I spend 40g on a potion that has a one-time use, when I've only got like 200g in the first place?
It's feasible that they intend that kind of thing to come into play later, but I assumed that a Lvl 1 potion/item is intended for Lvl 1 characters.
At this rate I MIGHT start purchasing those things at level 10.
My number one complaint with the game is that EVERYTHING costs way too much. Why the hell would I spend 40g on a potion that has a one-time use, when I've only got like 200g in the first place?
It's feasible that they intend that kind of thing to come into play later, but I assumed that a Lvl 1 potion/item is intended for Lvl 1 characters.
At this rate I MIGHT start purchasing those things at level 10.
Eh.
Among everything else we looted last Thursday we gained two level 8 pieces of equipment and another wondrous item. I don't think we're hurting for cash or equipment, and I have less than anyone else in the Company.
It works similarly in the 3.5 game I DM. Once every 5 or 6 sessions or so, the players get an opportunity to shop. And maaaaaybe they decide to splurge on something, but they typically take the loot they can get and/or save up for something really special.
Among everything else we looted last Thursday we gained two level 8 pieces of equipment and another wondrous item. I don't think we're hurting for cash or equipment, and I have less than anyone else in the Company.
It works similarly in the 3.5 game I DM. Once every 5 or 6 sessions or so, the players get an opportunity to shop. And maaaaaybe they decide to splurge on something, but they typically take the loot they can get and/or save up for something really special.
- Status