Oh for crying out...
I was just nitpicking about how disliking X because they take your job without making it about their race doesn't qualify as racism... how does that imply that it's ok...
Why we are not tolerating Racism.
- Thread starter Dave
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I was just nitpicking about how disliking X because they take your job without making it about their race doesn't qualify as racism... how does that imply that it's ok...
I think what Dave is trying to say (and this has been said before) is to not be a dick. Yes, you are entitled to your opinion, but don't be a dick about it. There are people from all walks of life who enjoy their time here, and that is what makes this place unique.
This is a very fine line and we have to trust the powers that be. Besides, if anything is overly offensive you could always report the post.
This is a very fine line and we have to trust the powers that be. Besides, if anything is overly offensive you could always report the post.
I will never stop being a dick to bigots
Pretty much. Dave's house, Dave's rules. And he's going to call them as he sees them and we should trust that he'll do it correctly because he has in the past and he will continue to do so. Let's not hyperventilate about this. If anything, we've got another topic for a podcast!
You said, @Li3n , that we're discussing "racism" and not "bigotry" in this thread, I'm still waiting for someone to explain how that first example is the first only... Mexico is a whole country with 120 million people and many races in it... so how is saying "mexicans" racism and not the same as saying "all british people"?
Did you report these?
We hear a lot of things people are going to be offended at. On a weekly basis someone here insults my personal religious beliefs, letting me know they think I am a "insert any number of insults" for simply having personal beliefs in a particular religion. Usually from people who screech for tolerance on a regular basis. Do I report them or ban them? No. Because people say offensive things. It's called life. There is a line and we deal with it when people cross it (assuming it's reported and we know about it).
I'm off to class but lets keep this thread sane.
And that is your right as well. In fact, it's what makes this place so awesome.
Around here, if you post something outrageous, there is always someone to call you out and equally berate you for your craziness (see Icarus).
And to clarify:
YES.
I can understand why you are upset. It's the equivalent of saying "Americans are _______" No, that is not ok.
I think what Dave is saying is racism and bigotry filled with vitriol and hatred are over the line of what is acceptable when discussing these issues. There is, as Espy has said, prejudices and misunderstandings of cultures that we all have. It is perpetuated through stereotypes and fears we often need someone to blame.
I think the lesson of C.P. Ellis, former head of the KKK in Durham, North Carolina, could go a long way in showing how the first step to overcoming our biases is by not hiding them and confronting them head on. Discovering where those biases come from can be difficult, but can be achieved through conversation. You won't change someone's mind by yelling that their feelings don't matter.
W
Wasabi Poptart
Calleja - Would you be this pissed if Dave had used another nationality as an example? If he had said Indian dot-head, sand rats would you have even batted a lash at this thread?
Dave
Staff member
Okay, back from lunch. I wondered where this would lead.
The reason I made this thread wasn't to condone bigotry or racism, merely to attempt to more thoroughly define what is an infractionable offense and what is protected under free speech. I'm not condoning EITHER of the examples and I'd fully expect that if someone says something like these that they'd be called out. But I'm not going to slap an infraction on anyone just because they say things I don't like.
And I used the Mexican example because as a person who has worked closely with construction people I have heard many variations of both.
Again, we are NOT condoning bigotry, but we also have to tread a fine line between allowing free speech and making the environment one that is comfortable to all.
The reason I made this thread wasn't to condone bigotry or racism, merely to attempt to more thoroughly define what is an infractionable offense and what is protected under free speech. I'm not condoning EITHER of the examples and I'd fully expect that if someone says something like these that they'd be called out. But I'm not going to slap an infraction on anyone just because they say things I don't like.
And I used the Mexican example because as a person who has worked closely with construction people I have heard many variations of both.
Again, we are NOT condoning bigotry, but we also have to tread a fine line between allowing free speech and making the environment one that is comfortable to all.
To be honest the OP for this thread could have been "Because it's bad" and I would have accepted it.
Yes, like you can see in this very thread someone tried to pass of "all british people" as not bigotry and I called them out on it.
---------- Post added at 12:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:57 PM ----------
Frankly, I'm a bit insulted and surprised at your implication, WildSoul, I've also been pissed off and militant in threads that were tolerating remarks against gay people, and I'm NOT gay.
So only cause I'm Mexican I won't tolerate bigotry?
H
Hansagan
Why is it that whenever I picture Dave he's holding his head in his hands? 
A
Armadillo
Only here could a thread telling us to knock off the racism get people to start pulling the "Oh, just because I'm a ______, I'm _______?" card.
Dave
Staff member
I totally understand where Calleja is coming from. I didn't word the first part right. For one, I should have stated my purpose for the thread. Second, I should have used a fictitious country. Anvilania immediately springs to mind.
I apologize for the misconception and for the initial post, but I was hungry and leaving for lunch.
W
Wasabi Poptart
Yes, like you can see in this very thread someone tried to pass of "all british people" as not bigotry and I called them out on it.
---------- Post added at 12:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:57 PM ----------
Frankly, I'm a bit insulted and surprised at your implication, WildSoul, I've also been pissed off and militant in threads that were tolerating remarks against gay people, and I'm NOT gay.
So only cause I'm Mexican I won't tolerate bigotry?[/QUOTE]
That's not what I'm saying. I thought, from what I am reading, you were more pissed that the examples Dave gave were about Mexicans and maybe if he had used another nationality you wouldn't really have been as upset with this thread. I can't say I've paid too much attention to you being militant in other threads regarding bigotry.
A
Armadillo
I totally understand where Calleja is coming from. I didn't word the first part right. For one, I should have stated my purpose for the thread. Second, I should have used a fictitious country. Anvilania immediately springs to mind.
I apologize for the misconception and for the initial post, but I was hungry and leaving for lunch.[/QUOTE]
My ancestors are from Anvilania, you son of a bitch.
I should probably stop with the smartassery now.
---------- Post added at 07:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:04 PM ----------
I'm in the same boat. Looks like my stomach's going to have to digest it's own lining.
I have a paper due in 52 minutes. GUESS WHAT I'M MORE FOCUSED ON!
you don't need to go to another thread... I made FIVE posts in this very one without mentioning at all the word "Mexican", and, in fact, I jumped at SOMEONE ELSE'S implication that saying "anyone from X country.." was not racism. That's where I jumped. If the example had been Lithuania I would have jumped just the same. I'm not patriotic, AT ALL, and feel no need to defend Mexico in the eyes of foreigners.
Bigotry is another matter entirely that I AM vocal about.
So, please, pay attention if you're going to throw accusations.
W
Wasabi Poptart
It wasn't an accusation. I was just asking a question.
M
makare
A bigoted opinion is still just a personal opinion. We don't condemn people for having a personal opinion mostly because there is ALWAYS someone pissed off by the opinion. We would have no one here. Instead the intent is to keep the expression of that opinion as unobnoxious and unantagonistic as possible. Some people hold offensive opinions some are just trying to offend with their opinion.
I am not pissed about you using "Mexicans", Dave, I was pissed at someone implying that a nationality is akin to a race. It's not. It's another generalization that qualifies as bigotry. I understand why illegal Mexican immigrants have created a negative view and hold no sympathy for them.
If you had used "Anvilmania" I still would have been bewildered at the implication that the first one was "alright".
If you had used "Anvilmania" I still would have been bewildered at the implication that the first one was "alright".
Dave
Staff member
Do you see what I was trying to get at, though? makare put it very, very well.
A
Armadillo
Exactly. If the goal was to ensure that nobody was EVER offended, we wouldn't have a message board. Also, since "bigotry" as a term can be very vague in terms of definition, it would be nearly impossible to enforce a "no bigotry" standard.
I have a paper due in 52 minutes. GUESS WHAT I'M MORE FOCUSED ON![/QUOTE]
If you guessed episodes of Stargate: SG-1 on Hulu, you are correct.
So you wheren't arguing against me then i guess...
And it's racism because they have this thing called a "one drop rule"...
I do now. Frankly I think you didn't word that OP and Title very well, since that "I think you see the difference" left me mouth agape. One may have no swear words in it like the second one, but I find it just as "racist". The title of the thread is "Why we're not tolerating Racism" when that first example implies you ARE tolerating racism, just racism that's not filled with slurs.
I understand where you're coming from, you can't hold down people's opinions, but then the title should not be "we're not tolerating Racism" and instead be "we're not tolerating dicks". See my point?
Dave
Staff member
I do now. Frankly I think you didn't word that OP and Title very well, since that "I think you see the difference" left me mouth agape. One may have no swear words in it like the second one, but I find it just as "racist". The title of the thread is "Why we're not tolerating Racism" when that first example implies you ARE tolerating racism, just racism that's not filled with slurs.
I understand where you're coming from, you can't hold down people's opinions, but then the title should not be "we're not tolerating Racism" and instead be "we're not tolerating dicks". See my point?[/QUOTE]
I do. That's what I get for posting in a hurry to run to Blimpie subs...
I do too, actually.Why is it that whenever I picture Dave he's holding his head in his hands?
Green_Lantern
Staff member
I do now. Frankly I think you didn't word that OP and Title very well, since that "I think you see the difference" left me mouth agape. One may have no swear words in it like the second one, but I find it just as "racist". The title of the thread is "Why we're not tolerating Racism" when that first example implies you ARE tolerating racism, just racism that's not filled with slurs.
I understand where you're coming from, you can't hold down people's opinions, but then the title should not be "we're not tolerating Racism" and instead be "we're not tolerating dicks". See my point?[/QUOTE]
I understand. But also I get Dave position to ensure some degree of neutrality, even it means to let some disguised bigots inside the forum =/
I
Iaculus
Does that mean Tinwhistler's junk has to go?
Don't you talk that way about my pickles!
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