I never said all soldiers kill innocents. And I'm not gonna yell at someone that believes all soldiers are heroes. That's nice if you do. Most soldiers deserve a lot of sympathy because the government is going to keep putting them into shitty situation after shitty situation.
Would you support superheroes?
- Thread starter IronBrig4
- Start date
- Status
I never said all soldiers kill innocents. And I'm not gonna yell at someone that believes all soldiers are heroes. That's nice if you do. Most soldiers deserve a lot of sympathy because the government is going to keep putting them into shitty situation after shitty situation.
H
Heavan
Everyone does! Who can resist Scottish pterodactyls?
I think superheroes would be a huge deterrent, though. The crooks might have to be released because of a legal technicality, but the injuries they suffered might serve to make them think twice about pulling off another heist. I can just picture some gangbangers having second thoughts.
"Yo homes, I don't think we should knock off that liquor store tonight. We tried that last month and that crazy muthafucka in the bat outfit broke my jaw and busted up Jefe's kneecaps. Didn't do no time, but now my face hurts when it rains."
"Yeah, and did you hear about the Bloods robbing that Korean deli yesterday? They got flattened by some big black dude in a yellow disco shirt. He just yelled out 'Sweet Christmas!' and it was all over for them."
"Homies? Maybe we shouldn't live like a bunch of hoodlums. Our folks didn't come over from Puerto Rico so we could turn out like this."
"Word. Let's go work on our GED's."
Seriously, it would suck to get beaten up by Luke Cage. The guy's a walking blaxploitation stereotype who wears a HEADBAND.
I, too, believe that broken bones and weeks of rehab are a just punishment for felony theft.
I
Iaculus
I think superheroes would be a huge deterrent, though. The crooks might have to be released because of a legal technicality, but the injuries they suffered might serve to make them think twice about pulling off another heist. I can just picture some gangbangers having second thoughts.
"Yo homes, I don't think we should knock off that liquor store tonight. We tried that last month and that crazy muthafucka in the bat outfit broke my jaw and busted up Jefe's kneecaps. Didn't do no time, but now my face hurts when it rains."
"Yeah, and did you hear about the Bloods robbing that Korean deli yesterday? They got flattened by some big black dude in a yellow disco shirt. He just yelled out 'Sweet Christmas!' and it was all over for them."
"Homies? Maybe we shouldn't live like a bunch of hoodlums. Our folks didn't come over from Puerto Rico so we could turn out like this."
"Word. Let's go work on our GED's."
Seriously, it would suck to get beaten up by Luke Cage. The guy's a walking blaxploitation stereotype who wears a HEADBAND.[/QUOTE]
Orr... we could let a legal system improved and refined over centuries deal with them, as opposed to some self-righteous, musclebound thug in a costume. Just a suggestion.
If the Death Penalty can't deter people from commiting murders, getting beat up isn't gonna stop people from robbing the local Kwik-e-Mart.
Let's say you read your morning paper and come across the local section. The main story is about how a group of thugs were found beaten to a pulp. Those crooks claim to have been clobbered by some guy in a hotrod red and yellow armor suit. Would you think "Oh my. Vigilantism is deplorable in this day and age."
Or would you think "Oh my God! This is so awesome!" Don't kid yourself.
Or would you think "Oh my God! This is so awesome!" Don't kid yourself.
Fine, is that the line where broken bones and a week in the hospital is acceptable?
---------- Post added at 05:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:23 PM ----------
I would probably think "Jesus christ, I hope the police catch that guy. "
Super Heroes should fight Super Villains. Let the Police handle the real Crimes.
I didn't say it would be acceptable. Just that it would be a deterrent. Instead of the gangbangers being picked up by the cops and gaining street cred for mouthing off to the fuzz, everybody will see them get taken down by a blind dude in red (or yellow) spandex.
By the way, how awkward would it be for anybody to fight Daredevil? That would almost be like the school bully hitting a disabled kid. The guy bumps into walls.
fade
Staff member
Oh, Espy. I totally disagree with you about the "no one thinks about them" bit. I'm not saying you're saying this, but I am dead tired of being told by conservatives that being against a war means being against its fighters. Especially when their safety is one of the huge reasons why many people are against a war. They're not one and the same, and most war detractors, having more than two brain cells to rub together, know this.
I
Iaculus
My probable thought? "What in the hell of fuck."
This. If there's cartoonish supervillainy abound, then it should be opposed by cartoonish superheroism. Otherwise, there's a legal system in place to handle your everyday crimes.
Good, because I didn't say that.
K
Kitty Sinatra
Not me, not yet anyway. I haven't actually got around to watching the Watchmen. Maybe when I see a copy at the used DvD shop.
If the Death Penalty can't deter people from commiting murders, getting beat up isn't gonna stop people from robbing the local Kwik-e-Mart.[/QUOTE]
Y'all ain't criminals so y'all can just shush now, ok?
I would probably think "Jesus christ, I hope the police catch that guy. "[/QUOTE]
Sometimes even you lay it on a bit thick Charlie.
I would probably think "Jesus christ, I hope the police catch that guy. "[/QUOTE]
Sometimes even you lay it on a bit thick Charlie.[/QUOTE]
I'm not just saying that. Seriously. Real life isn't Iron Man. If someone was taking out people in powered armor, there's no reason to think they would only go after the evil. Last time something like this happened, it was that Killdozer in Colorado that basically leveled an entire small town and caused millions in property damage.
Cajungal
Staff member
I love hearing stories about civilians who stand up to criminals and help to hand them over to the proper authorities--like those videos of holdups where the criminal gets overpowered. But when it comes to reading story after story about some mysterious person who targets criminals--It probably would be kinda cool at first, but I'd worry about what kind of person was out doing this kind of work. At what point would he/she let his/her own personal beliefs that aren't necessarily law affect whom they hurt?
W
WolfOfOdin
....My great grandfather served with the RAF, my grandfather with the Royal Marines, my cousin is in the Irish Army and my nephew wants to be in the SAS when he grows up. I have nothing but the ultimate and enduring respect for anyone who decides to get shot at for a living.
I normally go out of my way to not be mean or such, but if you paint all soldiers with the brush of 'innocent murdering monster' I have a rather large problem with your perceptions of what a soldier really is. Yes, there are a lot of bad people in the world, just as there are a lot of good ones. Deciding that the evil are the only ones worth noticing is at best wrong and at worst deeply disrespectful to anyone who died to make sure you were able to draw breath.
Call me optimistic, but while I wish for a world without violent conflict, I'm damned proud to know people I love and who love me would be willing to die a thousand miles away from home for my sake.
Edit:
My grandfather, the Royal Marine, is deeply against the current war in Iraq, because he believes the governments are using their soldiers as toys, not living men and women and I stand with him in that belief.
I normally go out of my way to not be mean or such, but if you paint all soldiers with the brush of 'innocent murdering monster' I have a rather large problem with your perceptions of what a soldier really is. Yes, there are a lot of bad people in the world, just as there are a lot of good ones. Deciding that the evil are the only ones worth noticing is at best wrong and at worst deeply disrespectful to anyone who died to make sure you were able to draw breath.
Call me optimistic, but while I wish for a world without violent conflict, I'm damned proud to know people I love and who love me would be willing to die a thousand miles away from home for my sake.
Edit:
My grandfather, the Royal Marine, is deeply against the current war in Iraq, because he believes the governments are using their soldiers as toys, not living men and women and I stand with him in that belief.
Oh lawdy I missed out on some trolling opportunities here.
I think that I would support Golden Age-esque superheros, the ones that just detain criminals until the police arrive. I think most people would probably support something like that. However, Luke Cage or Punisher-style superheroes would be just as much of a problem as the criminals they would target.
So, I guess the answer all comes down to superhero methods. If they obeyed the law and did not use excessive force, I would be behind superheroes all the way. Any hyper-violent types would not get my support.
I think that I would support Golden Age-esque superheros, the ones that just detain criminals until the police arrive. I think most people would probably support something like that. However, Luke Cage or Punisher-style superheroes would be just as much of a problem as the criminals they would target.
So, I guess the answer all comes down to superhero methods. If they obeyed the law and did not use excessive force, I would be behind superheroes all the way. Any hyper-violent types would not get my support.
W
WolfOfOdin
What about ones who frustrated their foes with pointed barbs of wit and intelligence till they stood there dumbfounded?
THAT'S RIGHT, I'M ON TO YOU AND YOUR LINGUISTICALLY SUPERHEROIC WAYS!
What about ones who frustrated their foes with pointed barbs of wit and intelligence till they stood there dumbfounded?
THAT'S RIGHT, I'M ON TO YOU AND YOUR LINGUISTICALLY SUPERHEROIC WAYS![/QUOTE]
:batman:
Thinking all soldiers are bastions of heroism and thinking all soldiers are slinging grenades into elementary schools are equally dumb.
I don't think anyone took either of those positions in this discussion.
I don't think anyone took either of those positions in this discussion.[/QUOTE]
I thought wolf was somewhat assuming/saying I did
W
WolfOfOdin
I don't think anyone took either of those positions in this discussion.[/QUOTE]
I thought wolf was somewhat assuming/saying I did[/QUOTE]
No Charlie, I was just getting my opinion out there. Sorry if it seemed like it was directed toward you. I'd specifically call you out if I was responding to you though. Buut I haven't, so let's eat drink and be drunk!
I don't think anyone took either of those positions in this discussion.[/QUOTE]
I thought wolf was somewhat assuming/saying I did[/QUOTE]
Okay, I probably shouldn't be speaking for what anyone else meant in this thread. I'll just say that I agree with you: blindly idolizing or disparaging soldiers to foolish. However, I think that most rational people would come to the conclusion that most members of the armed forces deserve respect.
I know that's a vague statement at best with too many qualifiers. I know that there is a strong nationalistic pull in this country to blindly support troops, and attack anyone who doesn't share that same level of fervor. Still, at the end of the day I think it's important to remember the kind of job most soldiers do, and make sure that they get the proper support.
That sounds a bit limiting, dunnit?
[/QUOTE]If that's how you think a government should be using its special forces.[/QUOTE]
To quote HowDroll: "Who watches the Watchmen?"
Well getting beaten up is something you probably already experienced, so it might work better, pavlovian conditioning style...
---------- Post added at 08:09 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:06 AM ----------
I don't think anyone took either of those positions in this discussion.[/QUOTE]
Of course not, no one is silly enough to think there are enough schools for all the soldiers to lob their grenades at...
I
Iaculus
Not me, not yet anyway. I haven't actually got around to watching the Watchmen. Maybe when I see a copy at the used DvD shop.[/QUOTE]
Go for the comic book itself. It's exactly the same thing, but with eight times the depth and complexity.
The film's opening sequence was pretty neat, though.
If you're talking about that guy in the first episode of Season 3, it was self-defense. I haven't seen beyond the third episode in that season, though, so please don't spoil it.
No, absolutely not.
A real-life "superhero" is a vigilante in a costume - someone guaranteed to have some psychological problems (delusions of grandeur, or trauma, or whatnot, depending on who they are), deciding all by themselves who's guilty and who isn't, disrupt due process, have never heard of habeas corpus, etc etc. Superheroes are great for fighting supervillains. We have neither.
As for the soldier discussion: my father was in the army, and sure, I respect most soldiers...somewhat. But no, soldiers don't automatically deserve my respect for being willing to die for me or my rights, or my country. All well and good sounding, but we don't live in a semi-perfect world where everyone is free to make the choice, etc etc. We don't live in Starship Troopers (the book, not the movie or the game).
Many people join the army because, well, there's nothing else for them. A bum who can't/won't work another job and joins the armed forces to have a place to eat and sleep, isn't suddenly worthy of my respect. He's living off wellfare with better pay and a slight risk increase. Note that Belgian armed forces are obviously slightly different from the American ones in this respect - we don't wage wars all the time, so the risk is considerably lower here.
People who do join because they want to help people out (I know quite a few military engineers who helped build camps in Kosovo, are keeping peace in Tsjaad, are building bridges, etc; and a military doctor who's working full-time in Afghanistan), do deserve my respect and they get it, sure enough. About the same ,but slightly more, than other people I know working for the Red Cross or Doctors without Borders who do similar work (the military people go first, and stay in danger zones, wear a uniform and such - I'm aware they're at a higher risk than those of the NGOs).
If we're talking veterans..Why is a guy worth my respect because he got drafted and happeend to survive? Why is he any better or worse than the German soldier who got drafted in WWII for his country? Or the Belgian/French who were sent to fight the communists on the Eastern Front? They're all people who either were forced to join - which doesn't deserve respect at all - or who fought for something they believed in, and were later reviled, cast away, etc...
TLDR: I have heaps of respect for people who join armed forces to help improve the world or protect innocents. Having a uniform does not automatically make one holy, and it's silly to think all soldiers/veterans deserve an equal amount of respect.
A real-life "superhero" is a vigilante in a costume - someone guaranteed to have some psychological problems (delusions of grandeur, or trauma, or whatnot, depending on who they are), deciding all by themselves who's guilty and who isn't, disrupt due process, have never heard of habeas corpus, etc etc. Superheroes are great for fighting supervillains. We have neither.
As for the soldier discussion: my father was in the army, and sure, I respect most soldiers...somewhat. But no, soldiers don't automatically deserve my respect for being willing to die for me or my rights, or my country. All well and good sounding, but we don't live in a semi-perfect world where everyone is free to make the choice, etc etc. We don't live in Starship Troopers (the book, not the movie or the game).
Many people join the army because, well, there's nothing else for them. A bum who can't/won't work another job and joins the armed forces to have a place to eat and sleep, isn't suddenly worthy of my respect. He's living off wellfare with better pay and a slight risk increase. Note that Belgian armed forces are obviously slightly different from the American ones in this respect - we don't wage wars all the time, so the risk is considerably lower here.
People who do join because they want to help people out (I know quite a few military engineers who helped build camps in Kosovo, are keeping peace in Tsjaad, are building bridges, etc; and a military doctor who's working full-time in Afghanistan), do deserve my respect and they get it, sure enough. About the same ,but slightly more, than other people I know working for the Red Cross or Doctors without Borders who do similar work (the military people go first, and stay in danger zones, wear a uniform and such - I'm aware they're at a higher risk than those of the NGOs).
If we're talking veterans..Why is a guy worth my respect because he got drafted and happeend to survive? Why is he any better or worse than the German soldier who got drafted in WWII for his country? Or the Belgian/French who were sent to fight the communists on the Eastern Front? They're all people who either were forced to join - which doesn't deserve respect at all - or who fought for something they believed in, and were later reviled, cast away, etc...
TLDR: I have heaps of respect for people who join armed forces to help improve the world or protect innocents. Having a uniform does not automatically make one holy, and it's silly to think all soldiers/veterans deserve an equal amount of respect.
- Status