DRM - The rise of Big Brother in gaming?

[Chazwozel]

Yeah I misread the quote.

The only people that actively have a shit fit about DRM are people who want to pirate the game or hack the multiplayer.[/QUOTE]

Actually i never had a problem with it until i started buying games...

And i hate having to rely on my ISP to play games...[/QUOTE]

Get a better ISP. How is that a gaming company's problem?

 

[@Li3n]

Yeah I misread the quote.

The only people that actively have a shit fit about DRM are people who want to pirate the game or hack the multiplayer.[/QUOTE]

Actually i never had a problem with it until i started buying games...

And i hate having to rely on my ISP to play games...[/QUOTE]

Get a better ISP. How is that a gaming company's problem?[/QUOTE]

Power failures do the same thing to all ISP's... but sure, it's not their problem i can't play their game, just like it's not my problem they're going out of business... :tongue:

 

[Ravenpoe]

DRM doesn't bother me, when it's done in a moderate manner. Mass Effect 2 is an example of how to annoy me. ME1 used a verification system that 'phoned home' when you installed the game, and did so again whenever you installed DLC or a patch. This is perfectly acceptable, and isn't a bother.

If you install DLC for Mass Effect 2, it phones home to verify every time you start the game, meaning it can't be played offline. And yes, wah wah, internet access, I have a crappy isp, obviously this is my fault. I deal with it because it's an awesome game, but it's still terribly annoying, and I still hope Bioware or EA will release a patch to change that.

DRM is something I expect companies to employ, it's just how things are done these days. But there's a balance between protecting your game, and intruding in people's ability to play it.

 

[Bowielee]

I'm still glad I bought Mass Effect 2 off of steam, because it suffers from none of the above described problems.

 

[David]

I've stated my thoughts on DRM here before but I guess I'll say it again.

It's the company's right to put DRM on their products, just as it's your right to refuse to purchase games whos DRM you disagree with. I see it as very clear, black and white... either the game seems so amazingly awesome that it's worth dealing with whatever DRM is attached to it... or you feel that the level of DRM is so Orwellian that the game isn't worth playing. And if the game isn't worth playing, it certainly isn't worth being a whiny bitch over. Game wasn't as awesome as it seemed and you're upset that you couldn't "demo" the game first? Boo-hoo, that was the investment you chose to make. Lesson learned, don't buy any games from that company in the future. Inventing your own middle-ground makes you a part of the problem.

A problem which must be... dealt with.

(Google image search "Evil Laugh" and take your pick)

 

[bhamv3]

It would be easier to refuse to buy games with draconian DRM if we knew in advance what they were. I didn't see it written anywhere on the Mass Effect 2 packaging that an open Internet connection would be required to play. Nor do I recall the developers or publisher announcing it in advance.

 

[Baerdog]

Then if draconian DRM is a concern for you, perhaps you should avoid pre-ordering games or buying them on launch day before people figure out whether or not a game has it.

 

[Bowielee]

It does amaze me that so many people can post on these boards with their ISPs going down every 5 seconds.

 

[bhamv3]

Then if draconian DRM is a concern for you, perhaps you should avoid pre-ordering games or buying them on launch day before people figure out whether or not a game has it.

I do, generally. It's just that Mass Effect 2 fell firmly in the "want to play it so much I'll put up with whatever DRM they have on it" category.

 

[Chibibar]

Then if draconian DRM is a concern for you, perhaps you should avoid pre-ordering games or buying them on launch day before people figure out whether or not a game has it.

I do, generally. It's just that Mass Effect 2 fell firmly in the "want to play it so much I'll put up with whatever DRM they have on it" category. [/QUOTE]

normally I agree, but then some games give free items (ingame or real life) that you can't get them later because that is part of the promotion.

 

[Chazwozel]

It would be easier to refuse to buy games with draconian DRM if we knew in advance what they were. I didn't see it written anywhere on the Mass Effect 2 packaging that an open Internet connection would be required to play. Nor do I recall the developers or publisher announcing it in advance.

Operating System Windows XP with Service Pack 3, Windows Vista Service Pack 1 or Windows 7 CPU 1.8GHz Intel Core 2 Duo or equivalent AMD CPU 2.6+ GHz Core 2 Duo Intel or equivalent AMD CPU Memory 1 GB (XP), 2 GB (Vista/Win 7) 2 GB Hard Drive Space 15 GB Graphics Hardware NVIDIA GeForce 6800 or greater; ATI Radeon X1600 Pro or greater ATI Radeon HD 2900 XT, NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT or greater

Network Internet connection not required for activation. Required for one-time DLC activation.

 

[bhamv3]

Network Internet connection not required for activation. Required for one-time DLC activation.

Doesn't say anything about needing to be connected to the Internet every time I want to play, unless I'm misunderstanding what they wrote there.

 

[Ravenpoe]

Network Internet connection not required for activation. Required for one-time DLC activation.

Doesn't say anything about needing to be connected to the Internet every time I want to play, unless I'm misunderstanding what they wrote there.[/QUOTE]

Exactly. I'm fine with the one time activation. It's the every time you start the game it needs to be reactivated that annoys me, which makes me wonder if it's intentional, or an error in how the game authenticates.

Like I said in the thread on ME2 though, it's good enough that I'll put up with it. That doesn't mean it wouldn't be better if they fixed it.

 

[Seraphyn]

I get DRM, but I really don't see at as an effective tool against piracy when it's more then a simple disk check/key.

Hell, if you were to download a copy of a DRM protected game this is the installation procedure:

- Enter Key
- Install
- Copy crack
- Play

There is a big chance that these days you'll end up with more work trying to get the legit thing going. If anything DRM these days makes pirating more appealing then ever. Hell take ME2 for instance, you need to be logged in all the time to be able to play the DLC's on the retail version, while for the pirated version you can play them on a PC which doesn't even have internet at all.

Legit retail versions are dead. Go Steam or go console.

 

[figmentPez]

I haven't had any trouble with DRM yet, but saying that makes DRM a non-issue is like saying a company is great without ever having dealt with their customer service. It doesn't mater if you've ordered from a company a dozen times, until you've had a problem and had to deal with their customer service, you can't really say much about them, in my opinion.

I like Steam as a program, it works pretty well for managing games. I think Valve makes great games, and they're pretty responsive to their customers (I've had them respond to my emails about the L4D2 Demo). However, I am aware that all the games in my Steam account are available to me at their whim. As much as I enjoy getting my games for cheap via sales, and have yet to have any problem with the service, I know that others have. If I have a future dispute with Newegg.com (who has thus far been good to me, even when I've had to contact customer service) and I pay for a product they refuse to deliver to me, I can dispute the charges with my credit card company. If Steam decides to not make good on my payment and I try the same thing, I could get locked out of all the games I've purchased on the service. That's a lot for a company to hold over the head of a customer. "Take what we give you, or we'll take away what you've already got." Not a problem as long as things go smoothly, but when things go wrong...

 

[@Li3n]

It does amaze me that so many people can post on these boards with their ISPs going down every 5 seconds.

And it really warms my heart that you feel the need to exaggerate it so in order to make it seem like an invalid complaint.

 

[Chibibar]

I haven't had any trouble with DRM yet, but saying that makes DRM a non-issue is like saying a company is great without ever having dealt with their customer service. It doesn't mater if you've ordered from a company a dozen times, until you've had a problem and had to deal with their customer service, you can't really say much about them, in my opinion.

I like Steam as a program, it works pretty well for managing games. I think Valve makes great games, and they're pretty responsive to their customers (I've had them respond to my emails about the L4D2 Demo). However, I am aware that all the games in my Steam account are available to me at their whim. As much as I enjoy getting my games for cheap via sales, and have yet to have any problem with the service, I know that others have. If I have a future dispute with Newegg.com (who has thus far been good to me, even when I've had to contact customer service) and I pay for a product they refuse to deliver to me, I can dispute the charges with my credit card company. If Steam decides to not make good on my payment and I try the same thing, I could get locked out of all the games I've purchased on the service. That's a lot for a company to hold over the head of a customer. "Take what we give you, or we'll take away what you've already got." Not a problem as long as things go smoothly, but when things go wrong...

you know. I do worry about that sometimes. I buy a tons of games on Steam (I got at least 30 or so) but only download like 15 that I like to play. So I wonder if Steam ever go out of business or going out soon, would I have the chance to download them? probably need to do before the server goes down. I remember someone who knew more about steam said that we can still play offline mode if steam ever go out of business.

 

[AshburnerX]

Valve has said they would release a patch that would allow anything that REQUIRES Steam to work without it if they ever went out of business. It sounds like they already have it made and keep updating it, but they are hoping never to release it. Considering Steam is currently number 1 in online Digital Distribution, I imagine they aren't going anywhere any time soon.

 

[@Li3n]

It sounds like they already have it made and keep updating it, but they are hoping never to release it.

I hope that's true, because i doubt that any company that's being closed down would actually go to the trouble of doing that kind of work.

 

[AshburnerX]

It sounds like they already have it made and keep updating it, but they are hoping never to release it.

I hope that's true, because i doubt that any company that's being closed down would actually go to the trouble of doing that kind of work.[/QUOTE]

I dunno... the guys behind Call of Cthulhu: Dark Corners of the Earth knew they would be going out of business very shortly after the game went gold, but still had a guy crank out AN ENTIRE PC VERSION FOR FREE.

 

[@Li3n]

Well i guess Valve is old school...

 

[@Li3n]

So Steam just started working offline for me with no internet connection today... i don't know if it's the latest update or what, but consider me appeased...

 

[Hailey Knight]

So Steam just started working offline for me with no internet connection today... i don't know if it's the latest update or what, but consider me appeased...

Hasn't it been that way for a long time? I remember, we went to my grandmother's house with no internet in late 2007 and I could play single-player games in Offline mode without connecting once.

 

[@Li3n]

As noted earlier in this thread, for some reason for me Steam wouldn't even start with no connection after pressing the Offline button... i'm guessing a bug or something...

 

[Hailey Knight]

Whatever you do, don't reinstall Steam.

I had to redownload all my games .

 

[@Li3n]

Whatever you do, don't reinstall Steam.

I had to redownload all my games .

Actually i once moved Steam from C: to D: without having to do that... just make sure it doesn't delete the folder where the games are...

And of course for both Steam games i have i bought them on DVD...

 

[figmentPez]

As noted earlier in this thread, for some reason for me Steam wouldn't even start with no connection after pressing the Offline button... i'm guessing a bug or something...

A long ways back I had a problem where I had to disable my NIC for Steam to start in offline mode, even though my internet was out. It's been a while since I've wanted to play a game on my desktop while my internet connection was down, though. The last time it happened, that I can remember, I had been in the middle of a L4D game, and I thought "Oh well, I guess I'll just play the next chapter of SBCG4AP." Doh! I'd installed the next episode, but I hadn't activated it yet. I couldn't play that one until my internet came back, either.

 

[@Li3n]

I installed AvP2 this morning and played that a little to bring back the memories of the campaign... but now the net is back and i'll be in l4d2... i see Dave is playing too.

 

[Cat]

As noted earlier in this thread, for some reason for me Steam wouldn't even start with no connection after pressing the Offline button... i'm guessing a bug or something...

I've had this problem a few times. Offline mode would always work if I was online with steam recently but if I hadn't used it for a while I was locked out until steam could update.

 

[@Li3n]

I'm pretty sure i was on it a day or two before... heck, maybe even earlier that day before the power went down (stupid power company forgot to tell us they would be doing repairs or whatever).

 

[bhamv3]

For Poe and anyone else suffering from the Mass Effect 2 problem of it checking online every time you start the game, I found that you can change a setting in the in-game options, and tell the game not to auto-connect. Seems to have fixed the problem for me.

 

[Alucard]

I know this may sound strange but I haven't purchased a game off of Steam yet. The only game I have on it is Team Fortress 2 which I got on DVD.Rom.
Steam is like the itunes version of video games correct? Just curious and sorry about the noobish question about steam. After you purchase the game
can you transfer it to a DVD? I still like owning a physical of the game.

 

[Necronic]

Steam is better than iTunes, because it doesn't care how many computers the game is on. Once you buy it you can run it on any system that has Steam. For me steam is an absolute must. 98% of the games update and isntall perfectly without me doing anything, I never have to worry about lost cd keys, and I can usually buy them cheaper than I could at retail. To me Steam (or impulse or whatever) is the only way to go. Personally I think DRM is a necessity. There are a lot of people who think they have a right to anything they can get their hands on, and will not pay for it if they don't have to. This ends up causing massive damage to sales of games and can also cause serious damage to online playability of games. Stardock was able to get away with a 0 DRM policy for a while, because the games they made were generally to complicated for most people (Galactic Civilization/Sins of a Solar Empire), but when they released the DoTA clone Demigod the massive amount of piracy almost singlehandedly destroyed the game by overloading the servers. Hell is to good for them.

 

[figmentPez]

After you purchase the game can you transfer it to a DVD? I still like owning a physical of the game.

Yes, you can backup your games on Steam. I usually do this as soon as I finish downloading a large title.

 

[Bowielee]

You can make a DVD backup of the game, but they still require steam itself to launch. I have just shy of 50 games on my steam account.