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DRM - The rise of Big Brother in gaming?

#1



Overflight

http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/news/52531/BioShock-2-DRM-System-Requirements-Revealed/p0/c3/

Steam buyers will have to be logged in to Valve's service, wait for BioShock 2 to unlock, undergo SecuRom activation (and install limits too, most likely), then log in to Games For Windows Live once the game has loaded, and then use it exclusively for multiplayer. With all multiplayer GFWL setups being less than great to date, I have to say that my pessimism for BioShock 2's multiplayer mode has just gone up a notch.
Click to expand...
GOD DAMN IT! I've been meaning to pre purchase the Steam version since I'm curious about the multiplayer and doing so gives me the PC version original Bioshock (sans DRM) for free but thanks to this crap, it's either good old torrent or the PS3 version with the awkward gamepad controls.


Not to sound like a conspiracy nut but it's starting to look like DRM companies may be in cahoots with major developers to make their "protection" purposefully intrusive to drive people toward console gaming where piracy is much less rampant. If people take it up the ass with DRM, the gaming industry wins. If people migrate toward consoles to escape it, the industry wins.


Of course there's the people who torrent the damn games, but then of course the developers use it as their excuse to move towards consoles. Once again they win.

Geez, you'd think that 2K would have learned their lesson with the LAST DRM debacle but noooo. Fuckers. :devil::devil::devil:


#2

Frank

Frankie Williamson

Not AGAIN! (Bioshock 2 DRM)

Are you fucking kidding me? That's like 45 layers of DRM.

Yeah, this game's going to work on 3 PCs.


#3

Espy

Espy

Not AGAIN! (Bioshock 2 DRM)

Why is the control scheme bad on the console versions? I played the original on the PS3 and it was smooth as silk?


#4



Chibibar

Not AGAIN! (Bioshock 2 DRM)

I wonder why bother with DRM at all. (at least that many level) what is wrong with just a game key method?


#5



Kitty Sinatra

Not AGAIN! (Bioshock 2 DRM)

Espy said:
Why is the control scheme bad on the console versions?
Click to expand...
It's not mouse and squirrel . . . er moose and keyboard.


#6

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

Not AGAIN! (Bioshock 2 DRM)

Wow, I'm gonna mark today. Gruebeard made me guffaw something fierce.


#7

ElJuski

ElJuski

Not AGAIN! (Bioshock 2 DRM)

I'm gonna play it on 360, so I could care less.


#8

@Li3n

@Li3n

Not AGAIN! (Bioshock 2 DRM)

I for one will be enjoying my DRM free pirated version thank you very much...


#9

Jay

Jay

Not AGAIN! (Bioshock 2 DRM)

You weren't going to buy the game anyways.

What does the MP entail? Any coop? *hopes*


#10



Overflight

Not AGAIN! (Bioshock 2 DRM)

Basically it's your standard Deathmatch, team deathmatch, etc multiplayer. In fact, it was even developed by the guys who co-developed Unreal Tournament.

However, they did claim it was going to include some story elements: the multiplayer takes place before the fall of Rapture and has you controlling a bunch of guys test running plasmids. You get to see locations from the previous Bioshock in a less rundown state and as you progress through the matches, the characters look more and more spliced.

And besides, setting people on fire, freezing them or throwing stuff at them sounds fun in multiplayer.


#11

Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

Not AGAIN! (Bioshock 2 DRM)

Another part of the multi is during the civil war in Rapture.

One could always buy the game and then download the torrent. Then you're not a thief, but you don't have to deal with DRM either. Of course, no multi, but I don't give a shit about that.


#12

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

Not AGAIN! (Bioshock 2 DRM)

^

That's pretty much what I do with my PSP games.


#13



Alucard

Not AGAIN! (Bioshock 2 DRM)

So you play it on a console big deal. The PS3 version of the first one was just fine.


#14

AshburnerX

AshburnerX

Not AGAIN! (Bioshock 2 DRM)

BlackCat said:
So you play it on a console big deal. The PS3 version of the first one was just fine.
Click to expand...
It also came out a year after the 360 and PC versions... which is WHY it was fine.


#15

Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

Not AGAIN! (Bioshock 2 DRM)

Don't got a console. No reason I shouldn't be able to play it on PC, and I intend to.

EDIT: Wait a dang minute. This is exactly what happened with the first game. Awful, draconian DRM, and then they removed it a year later.

I can wait.


#16

bhamv3

bhamv3

Not AGAIN! (Bioshock 2 DRM)

Welp, that's doused my desire to get this game.


#17

Jay

Jay

Not AGAIN! (Bioshock 2 DRM)

I'll be honest, I don't plan to play the game immediately at launch unless I get a really good deal for a CE copy of the game. If not, I'll just wait till next xmas and get it at a decent price and by then the stupid DRM issues will be gone. But the other half of me though...

WHY DO YOU PERSIST IN YOUR LONELINESS?


#18

@Li3n

@Li3n

Not AGAIN! (Bioshock 2 DRM)

SeriousJay said:
You weren't going to buy the game anyways.
Click to expand...
I might have bought it once the price went down... maybe.


#19



Kitty Sinatra

Not AGAIN! (Bioshock 2 DRM)

Shegokigo said:
Wow, I'm gonna mark today. Gruebeard made me guffaw something fierce.
Click to expand...
:humble:

I'd mark it, too, except I figure I've sprayed enough bullets I oughtta hit everyone at least once eventually. And I'd just like to add that I really didn't think moose and keyboard was that funny; but this isn't the first time someone has reacted positively to what I truly thought were mediocre lines. So I figure I might as well just post whatever comes to mind. So yeah, Shego: Sorry but you're to blame for me continuing on so inanely. Halforums ain't gonna be too happy with you :p


#20

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

Not AGAIN! (Bioshock 2 DRM)

Because I imagined you saying it in "Natasha's" voice. :laugh:


#21

Seraphyn

Seraphyn

Not AGAIN! (Bioshock 2 DRM)

Seems like this is another game I'll buy and then pirate a copy of to bypass the silly DRM.


#22



Shadazz

Not AGAIN! (Bioshock 2 DRM)

This is like buying a fucking IronKey for your porn.


#23

Jay

Jay

Not AGAIN! (Bioshock 2 DRM)

@Li3n;331729][QUOTE=SeriousJay said:
You weren't going to buy the game anyways.
Click to expand...
I might have bought it once the price went down... maybe.[/QUOTE]

No, you wouldn't have.


#24

@Li3n

@Li3n

Not AGAIN! (Bioshock 2 DRM)

SeriousJay;331919][QUOTE=@Li3n;331729][QUOTE=SeriousJay said:
You weren't going to buy the game anyways.
Click to expand...
I might have bought it once the price went down... maybe.[/QUOTE]

No, you wouldn't have.[/QUOTE]


Well i already bought my first FPS with L4D2, so you're probably right... but i would have considered it...


#25

Jay

Jay

Not AGAIN! (Bioshock 2 DRM)

@Li3n;331932][QUOTE=SeriousJay;331919][QUOTE=@Li3n;331729][QUOTE=SeriousJay said:
You weren't going to buy the game anyways.
Click to expand...
I might have bought it once the price went down... maybe.[/QUOTE]

No, you wouldn't have.[/QUOTE]


Well i already bought my first FPS with L4D2, so you're probably right... but i would have considered it...[/QUOTE]

You wouldn't have considered it.


#26

@Li3n

@Li3n

Not AGAIN! (Bioshock 2 DRM)

I totally would have.... then i'd laugh at such a silly idea...


#27



Overflight

Not AGAIN! (Bioshock 2 DRM)

All right. a bit of an update:

http://www.2kgames.com/cultofrapture/article/bioshock2drmupdatescaling

Apparently 2K has deleted the SecuROM activation limit. The only limits are those built into GFWL, and those can be renewed by calling a free number for supported countries. Granted, this is bad news for those in non GFWL countries but what can you do. It's tolerable at best, but it could have been worse.

Worse as in something like this:

http://kotaku.com/5457012/ubisofts-pc-games-will-soon-require-an-internet-connection

Ditching the controversial "StarForce" system of digital rights management, Ubisoft will now be moving its PC game copy protection services to Ubi.com accounts.
This new system will allow unlimited installs (rather than the limits seen on other DRM systems like SecuRom), let you play games without a disc in the drive, and even save your games remotely to Ubi's servers, meaning you can swap between computers and pick up right where you left off (similar to how Valve's Steamworks system operates).
The catch? You have to be online to play your games. It's the only way you'll be able to verify with Ubisoft's servers that you're playing a legitimate copy of a game. So if you get intermittent internet connectivity, or travel a lot, or just like playing games on your laptop, you're in trouble, as no "offline" mode will be offered.
Click to expand...
http://www.direct2drive.com/9024/product/Buy-Assassin%27s-Creed-II-Black-Edition-Download

A PERMANENT HIGH SPEED INTERNET CONNECTION AND CREATION OF A UBISOFT ACCOUNT ARE REQUIRED TO PLAY THIS VIDEO GAME AT ALL TIMES AND TO UNLOCK EXCLUSIVE CONTENT. SUCH CONTENT MAY ONLY BE UNLOCKED ONE SINGLE TIME WITH A UNIQUE KEY. YOU MUST BE AT LEAST 13 TO CREATE A UBISOFT ACCOUNT WITHOUT PARENTAL CONSENT. UBISOFT MAY CANCEL ACCESS TO ONLINE FEATURES UPON A 30-DAY PRIOR NOTICE PUBLISHED AT http://assassinscreed.com.
Click to expand...
I'm waiting for Ubisoft to announce at what time of day the Two Minutes Hate of EA will take place.


#28

bhamv3

bhamv3

No buying Ubisoft games for me then. I like my offline mode.


#29

Bowielee

Bowielee

Why can't these places follow steam's example. Tie it to an account and allow an offline mode. I still think that Valve has the best DRM out there. Hell, I prefer buying on steam now as opposed to disk copies of games. It's good when basically a DRM service becomes your preferred method of purchasing games.


#30



Chibibar

Bowielee said:
Why can't these places follow steam's example. Tie it to an account and allow an offline mode. I still think that Valve has the best DRM out there. Hell, I prefer buying on steam now as opposed to disk copies of games. It's good when basically a DRM service becomes your preferred method of purchasing games.
Click to expand...
I like Steam too. It is painless and I don't mind the DRM in it since I can redownload as much as I want when I'm online. I do love the offline feature.


#31

Frank

Frankie Williamson

Well, EA is using that same method for Mass Effect 2 and guess what? SHOCKINGLY enough their servers crashed and now no one can God damn play Mass Effect 2 who hasn't authenticated yet. DRM is infuriating and I'm done with this shit. Fuck EA, fuck Ubisoft, fuck Activision, fuck Securom and Starforce and everything else that has anything to do with putting STUPID BULLSHIT arbitrary limits on how someone WHO ACTUALLY PAID FOR THE FUCKING GAME can actually play it. Piracy looks better every time some garbage like this happens.


#32

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

Frankie said:
Well, EA is using that same method for Mass Effect 2 and guess what? SHOCKINGLY enough their servers crashed and now no one can God damn play Mass Effect 2 who hasn't authenticated yet. DRM is infuriating and I'm done with this shit. Fuck EA, fuck Ubisoft, fuck Activision, fuck Securom and Starforce and everything else that has anything to do with putting STUPID BULLSHIT arbitrary limits on how someone WHO ACTUALLY PAID FOR THE FUCKING GAME can actually play it. Piracy looks better every time some garbage like this happens.
Click to expand...


:slywink:


#33

AshburnerX

AshburnerX

Do developers just not get it? If you REQUIRE people to log into your servers to play a game, those servers will ALWAYS go down the first day because no server farm known to man has yet to be able to handle the load of launch day. You ever need to start doubling your server estimates or just do away with it.


#34



Chibibar

AshburnerX said:
Do developers just not get it? If you REQUIRE people to log into your servers to play a game, those servers will ALWAYS go down the first day because no server farm known to man has yet to be able to handle the load of launch day. You ever need to start doubling your server estimates or just do away with it.
Click to expand...
I don't think it is possible. Even WOW (I would guess one of the largest gaming server farm) even crash on launch day :)

If the "Best" crash, there is no way that other business can even come close to make their server not crash on launch day.


#35

@Li3n

@Li3n

Chibibar;333728][QUOTE=Bowielee said:
Why can't these places follow steam's example. Tie it to an account and allow an offline mode. I still think that Valve has the best DRM out there. Hell, I prefer buying on steam now as opposed to disk copies of games. It's good when basically a DRM service becomes your preferred method of purchasing games.
Click to expand...
I like Steam too. It is painless and I don't mind the DRM in it since I can redownload as much as I want when I'm online. I do love the offline feature.[/QUOTE]


Last time my power went out (thanks for announcing you're gonna do that power company, jackasses) i couldn't play any Steam games when it went back up because the switches where affected too and Steam still needs you to be online to activate the offline thing...


#36

Frank

Frankie Williamson

Shegokigo;333876][QUOTE=Frankie said:
Well, EA is using that same method for Mass Effect 2 and guess what? SHOCKINGLY enough their servers crashed and now no one can God damn play Mass Effect 2 who hasn't authenticated yet. DRM is infuriating and I'm done with this shit. Fuck EA, fuck Ubisoft, fuck Activision, fuck Securom and Starforce and everything else that has anything to do with putting STUPID BULLSHIT arbitrary limits on how someone WHO ACTUALLY PAID FOR THE FUCKING GAME can actually play it. Piracy looks better every time some garbage like this happens.
Click to expand...


:slywink:[/QUOTE]

I like that you think that I'm actually that angry. Anger of that pictures magnitude is reserved for when my videocards start on fire (which happens all too often).


#37

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

I take what is written, I assume nothing.


#38

Gusto

Gusto

That guy looks like he's yawning pretty hard.


#39

AshburnerX

AshburnerX

No it doesn't... you just boot up Steam and switch it to offline mode, then reboot Steam. Done it a few times.


#40



Chibibar

@Li3n;333887][QUOTE=Chibibar;333728][QUOTE=Bowielee said:
Why can't these places follow steam's example. Tie it to an account and allow an offline mode. I still think that Valve has the best DRM out there. Hell, I prefer buying on steam now as opposed to disk copies of games. It's good when basically a DRM service becomes your preferred method of purchasing games.
Click to expand...
I like Steam too. It is painless and I don't mind the DRM in it since I can redownload as much as I want when I'm online. I do love the offline feature.[/QUOTE]


Last time my power went out (thanks for announcing you're gonna do that power company, jackasses) i couldn't play any Steam games when it went back up because the switches where affected too and Steam still needs you to be online to activate the offline thing...[/QUOTE]

true, but once activated, you can play offline. It is better than, you have to activate everytime and STAY online to play :(


#41

Frank

Frankie Williamson

AshburnerX said:
No it doesn't... you just boot up Steam and switch it to offline mode, then reboot Steam. Done it a few times.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I wish I'd bought it through Steam now. Shows me.


#42

@Li3n

@Li3n

AshburnerX said:
No it doesn't... you just boot up Steam and switch it to offline mode, then reboot Steam. Done it a few times.
Click to expand...

Well when i get the PC back i'll check it out...


#43

Bowielee

Bowielee

@Li3n;333898][QUOTE=AshburnerX said:
No it doesn't... you just boot up Steam and switch it to offline mode, then reboot Steam. Done it a few times.
Click to expand...

Well when i get the PC back i'll check it out...[/QUOTE]

Yeah, the only time I've had to be online was to originally activate the games. There are some games that have their own bullshit authentications that require you to be online, but that's not steam's fault.

And really, anything is better than Starforce. My copy of Prince of Persia: The 2 Thrones still only has a one install activation limit on it. Every time I install a new OS, I haven't beg Direct2Drive to give me a new key.


#44

bhamv3

bhamv3

Frankie said:
Well, EA is using that same method for Mass Effect 2 and guess what? SHOCKINGLY enough their servers crashed and now no one can God damn play Mass Effect 2 who hasn't authenticated yet. DRM is infuriating and I'm done with this shit. Fuck EA, fuck Ubisoft, fuck Activision, fuck Securom and Starforce and everything else that has anything to do with putting STUPID BULLSHIT arbitrary limits on how someone WHO ACTUALLY PAID FOR THE FUCKING GAME can actually play it. Piracy looks better every time some garbage like this happens.
Click to expand...
They already have your money, what do they care about what happens afterwards?

Also, didn't Bioware specifically state online authentication wouldn't be used for ME2? That they were going to use the disc check method used in Dragon Age?


#45



Soliloquy

bhamv3;334010][QUOTE=Frankie said:
Well, EA is using that same method for Mass Effect 2 and guess what? SHOCKINGLY enough their servers crashed and now no one can God damn play Mass Effect 2 who hasn't authenticated yet. DRM is infuriating and I'm done with this shit. Fuck EA, fuck Ubisoft, fuck Activision, fuck Securom and Starforce and everything else that has anything to do with putting STUPID BULLSHIT arbitrary limits on how someone WHO ACTUALLY PAID FOR THE FUCKING GAME can actually play it. Piracy looks better every time some garbage like this happens.
Click to expand...
They already have your money, what do they care about what happens afterwards?

Also, didn't Bioware specifically state online authentication wouldn't be used for ME2? That they were going to use the disc check method used in Dragon Age?[/QUOTE]

See, the folks at Bioware are what you would call "liars." They say things that aren't true.


#46

@Li3n

@Li3n

Bowielee;333995][QUOTE=@Li3n;333898][QUOTE=AshburnerX said:
No it doesn't... you just boot up Steam and switch it to offline mode, then reboot Steam. Done it a few times.
Click to expand...

Well when i get the PC back i'll check it out...[/QUOTE]

Yeah, the only time I've had to be online was to originally activate the games. There are some games that have their own bullshit authentications that require you to be online, but that's not steam's fault.

And really, anything is better than Starforce. My copy of Prince of Persia: The 2 Thrones still only has a one install activation limit on it. Every time I install a new OS, I haven't beg Direct2Drive to give me a new key.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, but Steam kept saying it won't run the games because it couldn't connect to the internet...


#47

Bowielee

Bowielee

I disconnected my network cable and booted up steam. It gives me a prompt that it can't connect to the internet, but gives me the option to start in offline mode. I pick that option and it reboots in offline mode. The only game I had a problem opening was Left 4 Dead.


#48

bhamv3

bhamv3

Sometimes Steam can boot up for me in offline mode, sometimes it can't. I don't know why.


#49

@Li3n

@Li3n

Bowielee said:
I disconnected my network cable and booted up steam. It gives me a prompt that it can't connect to the internet, but gives me the option to start in offline mode. I pick that option and it reboots in offline mode. The only game I had a problem opening was Left 4 Dead.
Click to expand...
Well i only have L4D2 and DoW2, and they wouldn't run in the offline mode it went to when it saw there was no internet...

Maybe it was just those games...


#50

Bowielee

Bowielee

@Li3n;334039][QUOTE=Bowielee said:
I disconnected my network cable and booted up steam. It gives me a prompt that it can't connect to the internet, but gives me the option to start in offline mode. I pick that option and it reboots in offline mode. The only game I had a problem opening was Left 4 Dead.
Click to expand...
Well i only have L4D2 and DoW2, and they wouldn't run in the offline mode it went to when it saw there was no internet...

Maybe it was just those games...[/QUOTE]

DoW2 has multiple layers if DRM, so that is definately an issue with that game specifically. I'm thinking because L4D 1 and 2 are mainly meant to be played online, they expect that you'd connect to a server anyway.

But, Overlord 1 and 2, Psychonauts, Jade Empire, Tales of Monkey Island, Portal, HL ep 2 worked just fine in offline mode.


#51

@Li3n

@Li3n

Well my computer is on the way back so we'll see...

But GfWL worked fine with offline mode, and the issue was that Steam wouldn't even start the game, so it was a Steam thing. But yeah, all the DRM layers they put in it make a compeling case that it's intentional.


#52



Rubicon

See, people thought I was stupid for my opinion on this issue.

In 2004.

People forget Half Life 2 came out like this, REQUIRED a connection to play singleplayer, at least at first then they changed it at some point I believe. At the time, I knew at least three or four people IRL, who loved PC games but only played single player games, and didn't use the internet. They had played HL1 and were eager to play HL2 but hey, no internet connection, no activation. This was BEFORE Valve put up the toll free number to activate, so there were people who dropped $50 on a game, they could not play because they weren't users of the internet.

I know, I know, its 2010 and many more people use the internet now, its in almost every household. But some people don't. And even if a company offers a phone number to call to activate, this is bullshit. If I buy a dvd to watch on my laptop which can play dvds really well, I don't have to call the dvd manufacturer to unlock it, or use a internet connection to watch the dvd.

I don't play consoles, I don't even own a current gen console aside from my DS. I'm not a fan of Bioshock, never even played the first one. Its the principle of the matter. Not all of us are pirates, some of us are paying legitimate customers.


#53

Baerdog

Baerdog

Frankie said:
Well, EA is using that same method for Mass Effect 2 and guess what? SHOCKINGLY enough their servers crashed and now no one can God damn play Mass Effect 2 who hasn't authenticated yet. DRM is infuriating and I'm done with this shit. Fuck EA, fuck Ubisoft, fuck Activision, fuck Securom and Starforce and everything else that has anything to do with putting STUPID BULLSHIT arbitrary limits on how someone WHO ACTUALLY PAID FOR THE FUCKING GAME can actually play it. Piracy looks better every time some garbage like this happens.
Click to expand...
I don't know where you're getting this from. I installed ME2 yesterday and the only thing I needed to go online for was to authenticate my Cerberus Network account and get my DLC. Yeah, the servers were down for a while; it was launch day and should be expected. I was still able to play the game just fine without going online for the few hours before I checked back, authenticated, and got my DLC.


#54

Frank

Frankie Williamson

Baerdog7;334255][QUOTE=Frankie said:
Well, EA is using that same method for Mass Effect 2 and guess what? SHOCKINGLY enough their servers crashed and now no one can God damn play Mass Effect 2 who hasn't authenticated yet. DRM is infuriating and I'm done with this shit. Fuck EA, fuck Ubisoft, fuck Activision, fuck Securom and Starforce and everything else that has anything to do with putting STUPID BULLSHIT arbitrary limits on how someone WHO ACTUALLY PAID FOR THE FUCKING GAME can actually play it. Piracy looks better every time some garbage like this happens.
Click to expand...
I don't know where you're getting this from. I installed ME2 yesterday and the only thing I needed to go online for was to authenticate my Cerberus Network account and get my DLC. Yeah, the servers were down for a while; it was launch day and should be expected. I was still able to play the game just fine without going online for the few hours before I checked back, authenticated, and got my DLC.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I realized that pretty shortly after. It just kept asking me to put in my bioware account info before going to the main menu.


#55

Baerdog

Baerdog

It does that until the first time you actually authenticate, then it logs you in automatically. Otherwise you can just cancel out of it.


#56

bhamv3

bhamv3

It appears you need an active net connection to connect to Cerberus Network though, and if your savegame's got Cerberus Network content on it (Zaeed, DLC armors etc) then you can't load that game. At least, that's according to my experience.

In other words, once you save a game with DLC content on it, you need an active net connection to play that savegame in the future.

Which sucks.


#57

@Li3n

@Li3n

OK, so now that the Pc is back with a more powerful power source (i really hope that's what was wrong) i managed to check...

And i had remembered wrong... it's not the games, it's Steam that won't start without a network connection after i press the Offline mode button... WTF?


#58

SpecialKO

SpecialKO

Hmmm, does ME2 do that in the console version as well? I know Dragon Age on the 360 didn't need to be logged in constantly once you downloaded the extra stuff you asked for.

Honestly, while I get the love folks have for gaming on their PCs, and I get the "fight the man" attitude towards gamings push towards consoles, and I agree that DRM is total bullshit...I'm perfectly fine with gaming more on my consoles. It's just less of a hassle.

I do miss mods, but not enough to overcome my distaste for fighting with my aging PC for performance, needing to buy new parts or more harddrive space, being told that my PC is too old to be supported, or dealing with DRM.


#59

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

I've never had a single problem with DRM in my gaming. Not once.


#60



Chazwozel

Not AGAIN! (Bioshock 2 DRM)

@Li3n said:
I for one will be enjoying my DRM free pirated version thank you very much...
Click to expand...

Annnnd it's douchebags like you that cause the insane DRM's in the first place...


#61



Chazwozel

Mav said:
See, people thought I was stupid for my opinion on this issue.

In 2004.

People forget Half Life 2 came out like this, REQUIRED a connection to play singleplayer, at least at first then they changed it at some point I believe. At the time, I knew at least three or four people IRL, who loved PC games but only played single player games, and didn't use the internet. They had played HL1 and were eager to play HL2 but hey, no internet connection, no activation. This was BEFORE Valve put up the toll free number to activate, so there were people who dropped $50 on a game, they could not play because they weren't users of the internet.
I know, I know, its 2010 and many more people use the internet now, its in almost every household. But some people don't. And even if a company offers a phone number to call to activate, this is bullshit. If I buy a dvd to watch on my laptop which can play dvds really well, I don't have to call the dvd manufacturer to unlock it, or use a internet connection to watch the dvd.

I don't play consoles, I don't even own a current gen console aside from my DS. I'm not a fan of Bioshock, never even played the first one. Its the principle of the matter. Not all of us are pirates, some of us are paying legitimate customers.
Click to expand...

Who on Earth plays a 2010 release game and is not connected to the internet? Oh and your friends are idiots:

Official Half-Life 2 Box minimum specs:
  • Processor: 1.2 GHz Processor
  • OS: Windows, 2000/XP/Me/98
  • Graphic card: DirectX 7 level graphics card
  • Hard Drive: 4.5 GB
  • Memory: 256 MB RAM
  • Other: Internet Connection, DVD-ROM Drive


---------- Post added at 04:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:01 PM ----------
Shegokigo said:
.
Click to expand...
Um... you bought the game... I wasn't referring to you. DRM has never bothered me one bit.


#62

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

Yeah I misread the quote.


#63



Chazwozel

Shegokigo said:
Yeah I misread the quote.
Click to expand...

The only people that actively have a shit fit about DRM are people who want to pirate the game or hack the multiplayer.


#64

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

But no Chaz, it's because they can't play their game while offline! *gasp*


#65



Chazwozel

Shegokigo said:
But no Chaz, it's because they can't play their game while offline! *gasp*
Click to expand...

Yup and my answer to that is always: if you want to live in 1995, then you better stick to Sim City 2000. ANYONE with a gaming computer with the specs to run this game has internet connection. There is no way in hell anyone can argue they use a computer without access to the internet. It's like using a car with no wheels.


#66

@Li3n

@Li3n

Chazwozel;334390][QUOTE=Shegokigo said:
Yeah I misread the quote.
Click to expand...

The only people that actively have a shit fit about DRM are people who want to pirate the game or hack the multiplayer.[/QUOTE]

Actually i never had a problem with it until i started buying games...

And i hate having to rely on my ISP to play games...


#67

Frank

Frankie Williamson

Anyone that says that only people who pirate games complains about DRM must not have tried to play Bioshock when it was released for PC. What a mess that was.


#68

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

Chazwozel;334399][QUOTE=Shegokigo said:
But no Chaz, it's because they can't play their game while offline! *gasp*
Click to expand...

Yup and my answer to that is always: if you want to live in 1995, then you better stick to Sim City 2000. ANYONE with a gaming computer with the specs to run this game has internet connection. There is no way in hell anyone can argue they use a computer without access to the internet. It's like using a car with no wheels.[/QUOTE]


But Chaz, what if my internet goes out! I mean, it's out like all the time! I won't be able to play that game!


#69



Kitty Sinatra

Frankie said:
Anyone that says that only people who pirate games complains about DRM must not have tried to play Bioshock when it was released for PC. What a mess that was.
Click to expand...
I've bitched to myself about that Starforce crap. It took forever to do its thing before letting me play my game. every fucking time I started the dame thing. Horrible horrible shit.


#70

Bowielee

Bowielee

Gruebeard;334497][QUOTE=Frankie said:
Anyone that says that only people who pirate games complains about DRM must not have tried to play Bioshock when it was released for PC. What a mess that was.
Click to expand...
I've bitched to myself about that Starforce crap. It took forever to do its thing before letting me play my game. every fucking time I started the dame thing. Horrible horrible shit.[/QUOTE]

Starforce is the only DRM that has actively given me trouble.


#71



Chazwozel

@Li3n;334421][QUOTE=Chazwozel;334390][QUOTE=Shegokigo said:
Yeah I misread the quote.
Click to expand...

The only people that actively have a shit fit about DRM are people who want to pirate the game or hack the multiplayer.[/QUOTE]

Actually i never had a problem with it until i started buying games...

And i hate having to rely on my ISP to play games...[/QUOTE]

Get a better ISP. How is that a gaming company's problem?


#72

@Li3n

@Li3n

Chazwozel;336596][QUOTE=@Li3n;334421][QUOTE=Chazwozel;334390][QUOTE=Shegokigo said:
Yeah I misread the quote.
Click to expand...

The only people that actively have a shit fit about DRM are people who want to pirate the game or hack the multiplayer.[/QUOTE]

Actually i never had a problem with it until i started buying games...

And i hate having to rely on my ISP to play games...[/QUOTE]

Get a better ISP. How is that a gaming company's problem?[/QUOTE]

Power failures do the same thing to all ISP's... but sure, it's not their problem i can't play their game, just like it's not my problem they're going out of business... :tongue:


#73

Ravenpoe

Ravenpoe

DRM doesn't bother me, when it's done in a moderate manner. Mass Effect 2 is an example of how to annoy me. ME1 used a verification system that 'phoned home' when you installed the game, and did so again whenever you installed DLC or a patch. This is perfectly acceptable, and isn't a bother.

If you install DLC for Mass Effect 2, it phones home to verify every time you start the game, meaning it can't be played offline. And yes, wah wah, internet access, I have a crappy isp, obviously this is my fault. I deal with it because it's an awesome game, but it's still terribly annoying, and I still hope Bioware or EA will release a patch to change that.

DRM is something I expect companies to employ, it's just how things are done these days. But there's a balance between protecting your game, and intruding in people's ability to play it.


#74

Bowielee

Bowielee

I'm still glad I bought Mass Effect 2 off of steam, because it suffers from none of the above described problems.


#75

David

David

I've stated my thoughts on DRM here before but I guess I'll say it again.

It's the company's right to put DRM on their products, just as it's your right to refuse to purchase games whos DRM you disagree with. I see it as very clear, black and white... either the game seems so amazingly awesome that it's worth dealing with whatever DRM is attached to it... or you feel that the level of DRM is so Orwellian that the game isn't worth playing. And if the game isn't worth playing, it certainly isn't worth being a whiny bitch over. Game wasn't as awesome as it seemed and you're upset that you couldn't "demo" the game first? Boo-hoo, that was the investment you chose to make. Lesson learned, don't buy any games from that company in the future. Inventing your own middle-ground makes you a part of the problem.

A problem which must be... dealt with.


(Google image search "Evil Laugh" and take your pick)


#76

bhamv3

bhamv3

It would be easier to refuse to buy games with draconian DRM if we knew in advance what they were. I didn't see it written anywhere on the Mass Effect 2 packaging that an open Internet connection would be required to play. Nor do I recall the developers or publisher announcing it in advance.


#77

Baerdog

Baerdog

Then if draconian DRM is a concern for you, perhaps you should avoid pre-ordering games or buying them on launch day before people figure out whether or not a game has it.


#78

Bowielee

Bowielee

It does amaze me that so many people can post on these boards with their ISPs going down every 5 seconds.


#79

bhamv3

bhamv3

Baerdog7 said:
Then if draconian DRM is a concern for you, perhaps you should avoid pre-ordering games or buying them on launch day before people figure out whether or not a game has it.
Click to expand...
I do, generally. It's just that Mass Effect 2 fell firmly in the "want to play it so much I'll put up with whatever DRM they have on it" category. :)


#80



Chibibar

bhamv3;337257][QUOTE=Baerdog7 said:
Then if draconian DRM is a concern for you, perhaps you should avoid pre-ordering games or buying them on launch day before people figure out whether or not a game has it.
Click to expand...
I do, generally. It's just that Mass Effect 2 fell firmly in the "want to play it so much I'll put up with whatever DRM they have on it" category. :)[/QUOTE]

normally I agree, but then some games give free items (ingame or real life) that you can't get them later because that is part of the promotion.


#81



Chazwozel

bhamv3 said:
It would be easier to refuse to buy games with draconian DRM if we knew in advance what they were. I didn't see it written anywhere on the Mass Effect 2 packaging that an open Internet connection would be required to play. Nor do I recall the developers or publisher announcing it in advance.
Click to expand...

Operating System Windows XP with Service Pack 3, Windows Vista Service Pack 1 or Windows 7 CPU 1.8GHz Intel Core 2 Duo or equivalent AMD CPU 2.6+ GHz Core 2 Duo Intel or equivalent AMD CPU Memory 1 GB (XP), 2 GB (Vista/Win 7) 2 GB Hard Drive Space 15 GB Graphics Hardware NVIDIA GeForce 6800 or greater; ATI Radeon X1600 Pro or greater ATI Radeon HD 2900 XT, NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT or greater

Network Internet connection not required for activation. Required for one-time DLC activation.


#82

bhamv3

bhamv3

Chazwozel said:
Network Internet connection not required for activation. Required for one-time DLC activation.
Click to expand...
Doesn't say anything about needing to be connected to the Internet every time I want to play, unless I'm misunderstanding what they wrote there.


#83

Ravenpoe

Ravenpoe

bhamv3;337273][QUOTE=Chazwozel said:
Network Internet connection not required for activation. Required for one-time DLC activation.
Click to expand...
Doesn't say anything about needing to be connected to the Internet every time I want to play, unless I'm misunderstanding what they wrote there.[/QUOTE]

Exactly. I'm fine with the one time activation. It's the every time you start the game it needs to be reactivated that annoys me, which makes me wonder if it's intentional, or an error in how the game authenticates.

Like I said in the thread on ME2 though, it's good enough that I'll put up with it. That doesn't mean it wouldn't be better if they fixed it.


#84

Seraphyn

Seraphyn

I get DRM, but I really don't see at as an effective tool against piracy when it's more then a simple disk check/key.

Hell, if you were to download a copy of a DRM protected game this is the installation procedure:

- Enter Key
- Install
- Copy crack
- Play

There is a big chance that these days you'll end up with more work trying to get the legit thing going. If anything DRM these days makes pirating more appealing then ever. Hell take ME2 for instance, you need to be logged in all the time to be able to play the DLC's on the retail version, while for the pirated version you can play them on a PC which doesn't even have internet at all.

Legit retail versions are dead. Go Steam or go console.


#85

figmentPez

figmentPez

I haven't had any trouble with DRM yet, but saying that makes DRM a non-issue is like saying a company is great without ever having dealt with their customer service. It doesn't mater if you've ordered from a company a dozen times, until you've had a problem and had to deal with their customer service, you can't really say much about them, in my opinion.

I like Steam as a program, it works pretty well for managing games. I think Valve makes great games, and they're pretty responsive to their customers (I've had them respond to my emails about the L4D2 Demo). However, I am aware that all the games in my Steam account are available to me at their whim. As much as I enjoy getting my games for cheap via sales, and have yet to have any problem with the service, I know that others have. If I have a future dispute with Newegg.com (who has thus far been good to me, even when I've had to contact customer service) and I pay for a product they refuse to deliver to me, I can dispute the charges with my credit card company. If Steam decides to not make good on my payment and I try the same thing, I could get locked out of all the games I've purchased on the service. That's a lot for a company to hold over the head of a customer. "Take what we give you, or we'll take away what you've already got." Not a problem as long as things go smoothly, but when things go wrong...


#86

@Li3n

@Li3n

Bowielee said:
It does amaze me that so many people can post on these boards with their ISPs going down every 5 seconds.
Click to expand...
And it really warms my heart that you feel the need to exaggerate it so in order to make it seem like an invalid complaint.


#87



Chibibar

figmentPez said:
I haven't had any trouble with DRM yet, but saying that makes DRM a non-issue is like saying a company is great without ever having dealt with their customer service. It doesn't mater if you've ordered from a company a dozen times, until you've had a problem and had to deal with their customer service, you can't really say much about them, in my opinion.

I like Steam as a program, it works pretty well for managing games. I think Valve makes great games, and they're pretty responsive to their customers (I've had them respond to my emails about the L4D2 Demo). However, I am aware that all the games in my Steam account are available to me at their whim. As much as I enjoy getting my games for cheap via sales, and have yet to have any problem with the service, I know that others have. If I have a future dispute with Newegg.com (who has thus far been good to me, even when I've had to contact customer service) and I pay for a product they refuse to deliver to me, I can dispute the charges with my credit card company. If Steam decides to not make good on my payment and I try the same thing, I could get locked out of all the games I've purchased on the service. That's a lot for a company to hold over the head of a customer. "Take what we give you, or we'll take away what you've already got." Not a problem as long as things go smoothly, but when things go wrong...
Click to expand...
you know. I do worry about that sometimes. I buy a tons of games on Steam (I got at least 30 or so) but only download like 15 that I like to play. So I wonder if Steam ever go out of business or going out soon, would I have the chance to download them? probably need to do before the server goes down. I remember someone who knew more about steam said that we can still play offline mode if steam ever go out of business.


#88

AshburnerX

AshburnerX

Valve has said they would release a patch that would allow anything that REQUIRES Steam to work without it if they ever went out of business. It sounds like they already have it made and keep updating it, but they are hoping never to release it. Considering Steam is currently number 1 in online Digital Distribution, I imagine they aren't going anywhere any time soon.


#89

@Li3n

@Li3n

AshburnerX said:
It sounds like they already have it made and keep updating it, but they are hoping never to release it.
Click to expand...
I hope that's true, because i doubt that any company that's being closed down would actually go to the trouble of doing that kind of work.


#90

AshburnerX

AshburnerX

@Li3n;338213][QUOTE=AshburnerX said:
It sounds like they already have it made and keep updating it, but they are hoping never to release it.
Click to expand...
I hope that's true, because i doubt that any company that's being closed down would actually go to the trouble of doing that kind of work.[/QUOTE]

I dunno... the guys behind Call of Cthulhu: Dark Corners of the Earth knew they would be going out of business very shortly after the game went gold, but still had a guy crank out AN ENTIRE PC VERSION FOR FREE.


#91

@Li3n

@Li3n

Well i guess Valve is old school...


#92

@Li3n

@Li3n

So Steam just started working offline for me with no internet connection today... i don't know if it's the latest update or what, but consider me appeased...


#93

Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

@Li3n said:
So Steam just started working offline for me with no internet connection today... i don't know if it's the latest update or what, but consider me appeased...
Click to expand...
Hasn't it been that way for a long time? I remember, we went to my grandmother's house with no internet in late 2007 and I could play single-player games in Offline mode without connecting once.


#94

@Li3n

@Li3n

As noted earlier in this thread, for some reason for me Steam wouldn't even start with no connection after pressing the Offline button... i'm guessing a bug or something...


#95

Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

Whatever you do, don't reinstall Steam.

I had to redownload all my games :(.


#96

@Li3n

@Li3n

escushion said:
Whatever you do, don't reinstall Steam.

I had to redownload all my games :(.
Click to expand...
Actually i once moved Steam from C: to D: without having to do that... just make sure it doesn't delete the folder where the games are...

And of course for both Steam games i have i bought them on DVD...


#97

figmentPez

figmentPez

@Li3n said:
As noted earlier in this thread, for some reason for me Steam wouldn't even start with no connection after pressing the Offline button... i'm guessing a bug or something...
Click to expand...
A long ways back I had a problem where I had to disable my NIC for Steam to start in offline mode, even though my internet was out. It's been a while since I've wanted to play a game on my desktop while my internet connection was down, though. The last time it happened, that I can remember, I had been in the middle of a L4D game, and I thought "Oh well, I guess I'll just play the next chapter of SBCG4AP." Doh! I'd installed the next episode, but I hadn't activated it yet. I couldn't play that one until my internet came back, either.


#98

@Li3n

@Li3n

I installed AvP2 this morning and played that a little to bring back the memories of the campaign... but now the net is back and i'll be in l4d2... i see Dave is playing too.


#99

Cat

Cat

@Li3n said:
As noted earlier in this thread, for some reason for me Steam wouldn't even start with no connection after pressing the Offline button... i'm guessing a bug or something...
Click to expand...
I've had this problem a few times. Offline mode would always work if I was online with steam recently but if I hadn't used it for a while I was locked out until steam could update.


#100

@Li3n

@Li3n

I'm pretty sure i was on it a day or two before... heck, maybe even earlier that day before the power went down (stupid power company forgot to tell us they would be doing repairs or whatever).


#101

bhamv3

bhamv3

For Poe and anyone else suffering from the Mass Effect 2 problem of it checking online every time you start the game, I found that you can change a setting in the in-game options, and tell the game not to auto-connect. Seems to have fixed the problem for me.


#102



Alucard

I know this may sound strange but I haven't purchased a game off of Steam yet. The only game I have on it is Team Fortress 2 which I got on DVD.Rom.
Steam is like the itunes version of video games correct? Just curious and sorry about the noobish question about steam. After you purchase the game
can you transfer it to a DVD? I still like owning a physical of the game.


#103

Necronic

Necronic

Steam is better than iTunes, because it doesn't care how many computers the game is on. Once you buy it you can run it on any system that has Steam. For me steam is an absolute must. 98% of the games update and isntall perfectly without me doing anything, I never have to worry about lost cd keys, and I can usually buy them cheaper than I could at retail. To me Steam (or impulse or whatever) is the only way to go. Personally I think DRM is a necessity. There are a lot of people who think they have a right to anything they can get their hands on, and will not pay for it if they don't have to. This ends up causing massive damage to sales of games and can also cause serious damage to online playability of games. Stardock was able to get away with a 0 DRM policy for a while, because the games they made were generally to complicated for most people (Galactic Civilization/Sins of a Solar Empire), but when they released the DoTA clone Demigod the massive amount of piracy almost singlehandedly destroyed the game by overloading the servers. Hell is to good for them.


#104

figmentPez

figmentPez

BlackCat said:
After you purchase the game can you transfer it to a DVD? I still like owning a physical of the game.
Click to expand...
Yes, you can backup your games on Steam. I usually do this as soon as I finish downloading a large title.


#105

Bowielee

Bowielee

You can make a DVD backup of the game, but they still require steam itself to launch. I have just shy of 50 games on my steam account.


#106



Alucard

Okay thanks guys guess I'll make my future PC game purchases from Steam then. I believe DRM is necessary as well although less intrusive software could be used
instead of screwing a persons pc when you by the game ligit and I hate the limit install on a game too. Looks at Bioshock and Mass Effect.


#107

figmentPez

figmentPez

BlackCat said:
Okay thanks guys guess I'll make my future PC game purchases from Steam then. I believe DRM is necessary as well although less intrusive software could be used
instead of screwing a persons pc when you by the game ligit and I hate the limit install on a game too. Looks at Bioshock and Mass Effect.
Click to expand...
Keep in mind that a game on Steam can still have other DRM as well, including the associated install limits.


#108

Frank

Frankie Williamson

Necronic said:
Steam is better than iTunes, because it doesn't care how many computers the game is on. Once you buy it you can run it on any system that has Steam. For me steam is an absolute must. 98% of the games update and isntall perfectly without me doing anything, I never have to worry about lost cd keys, and I can usually buy them cheaper than I could at retail. To me Steam (or impulse or whatever) is the only way to go. Personally I think DRM is a necessity. There are a lot of people who think they have a right to anything they can get their hands on, and will not pay for it if they don't have to. This ends up causing massive damage to sales of games and can also cause serious damage to online playability of games. Stardock was able to get away with a 0 DRM policy for a while, because the games they made were generally to complicated for most people (Galactic Civilization/Sins of a Solar Empire), but when they released the DoTA clone Demigod the massive amount of piracy almost singlehandedly destroyed the game by overloading the servers. Hell is to good for them.
Click to expand...
I can see not going with any DRM with their games, but why make it so easy to access the servers with illegitimate copies? Even a CD key system fixes that (the least obstructive DRM there is).


#109

@Li3n

@Li3n

Frankie said:
Stardock was able to get away with a 0 DRM policy for a while, because the games they made were generally to complicated for most people (Galactic Civilization/Sins of a Solar Empire), but when they released the DoTA clone Demigod the massive amount of piracy almost singlehandedly destroyed the game by overloading the servers. Hell is to good for them.
Click to expand...
I can see not going with any DRM with their games, but why make it so easy to access the servers with illegitimate copies? Even a CD key system fixes that (the least obstructive DRM there is).
Click to expand...

Actually CD key's on their own don't stop that, the pirated versions couldn't actually play the game on official servers, it was just that they all checked in with the servers overloading them. They had to patch it so that the game doesn't automatically check in when you open it.

Of course saying that DRM would have stopped that is naive, a game not getting cracked within the week is the exception, not the rule, and seeing how there are a few times more DotA players then sold copies of WC3 it was to be expected a lot of people will be checking it out, sooner or later.

BTW, how is Demigod doing, coz most DotA players didn't much liked it (or anything else that doesn't copy DotA closely... hello HoN).


#110

figmentPez

figmentPez

DRM is set to get even more invasive. From Joystiq and PC Gamer: Ubisoft PC DRM doesn't sound like such a good idea anymore

According to PC Gamer, tests of upcoming Ubisoft PC titles Assassin's Creed 2 and Settlers VII proved how flawed the system actually is. If, for whatever reason, your connection experiences an issue (be it router reboot or a momentary pause in connectivity) the software will immediately boot you to the main menu of the game. Oh, and all that progress you made after a previous save or checkpoint? That's gone.
Click to expand...
Electrical power isn't 100% stable here, and we get brown-outs at least every few weeks. My computer is on a UPS, but my cable modem and router are not. I'd really hate for a single player game to boot me to the menu without allowing me to save just because my router was reset by a power blip. I probably won't be buying any Ubisoft titles in the future.


#111

@Li3n

@Li3n

Oh yeah, that's all the rage now in certain HoMM fan forums... and those guys actually once sent death threat over te SF Forge town they where gonna add to Armageddon's Blade in HoMM3...


#112

Bowielee

Bowielee

Ubisoft just plain blows in all their attempts at DRM. It's the ONLY company I've had issues with as far as DRM goes. Prince of Persia: The 2 Thrones had ATROCIOUS DRM.


#113



Alucard

Okay thats it I'm going to stay to consoles from now on when it comes to gaming.
PC you've been a great ride until you fucking get your act together with anti piracy software fuck you.


#114

figmentPez

figmentPez

BlackCat said:
Okay thas it I'm going to stay to consoles from now on when it comes to gaming.
PC you've been a great ride until you fucking get your act together with anti piracy software fuck you.
Click to expand...
Well not all PC gaming is anywhere near that bad. It doesn't take much research to find out what kind of DRM most games have on them, so you can check before you purchase.

Even if you don't want to bother, I don't think console gaming is going to save you for long. Console makers want to kill the used game market, if they can, and as soon as they think they can require an internet connection to play games, they'll probably try doing it. If gamers put up with this crap on PC, I bet you'll see it on consoles in the next generation.


#115

bhamv3

bhamv3

Wait, what? Assassin's Creed 2 is going to require a constant Internet connection to play?

Screw that. Ubisoft just lost a customer.


#116

figmentPez

figmentPez

figmentPez said:
I don't think console gaming is going to save you for long. Console makers want to kill the used game market, if they can, and as soon as they think they can require an internet connection to play games, they'll probably try doing it. If gamers put up with this crap on PC, I bet you'll see it on consoles in the next generation.
Click to expand...
Another sign that online activated DRM is coming to consoles: Sony is requiring a key-code to play SOCOM: Fireteam Bravo 3 online on the PSP

Echoing the controversial measures announced by Ubisoft last month, Sony has revealed that users of SOCOM: US Navy SEALs Fireteam Bravo 3 will need to register their game online before they are able to access the multiplayer component of the title.

UMD copies will use a redeemable code while the digital version will authenticate automatically in the background.

Furthermore, in a nod to recent plans implemented by EA, anyone buying a pre-owned copy of the game will be forced to cough up $20 to obtain a code to play online.
Click to expand...


#117

@Li3n

@Li3n

First they came for the PC's, but i said nothing (well ok, i yelled PIRACY!) because i was a consoletard, then they came for the PS3, but i said nothing (except "hahaha") because i was an xbot... then tehy came for the XBoxes, but mine RRoD-ed a week after teh warranty ran out...


#118

Bubble181

Bubble181

I play all of my games legitimately...And i've missed out on quite a few games because of too horrible DRM. Of course, I think Steam is really pushing the boundary of what I accept in the way of DRm (I don't have it, as yet), so yeah...Gamersgate or GoG are less intrusive, and work just fine, too.
Anyway, I , for one, do, often, play computer games without an internet connection. I'm sorry, that's not "1995", that's "using a laptop for what it's for". You tell me why, exactly, I shouldn't be allowed to play my game on a laptop on a long-distance train, or at my parents' place, or in the couch (where I don't have an internet connection), or at my girlfriend's place, or wherever. Hmm? And yes, my laptop runs all current games quite adequately, it's not a 5-year-old piece of crap.
Requiring a one-time activation I dislike, but understand. Requiring internet every start-up, let alone continuously? Well, not getting my money. And since I really don't like console gaming, tough.


#119

Bowielee

Bowielee

I have never even considered boycotting a video game developer until I heard about this. Too bad, I loved Assassin's Creed and the Prince of Persia games.

Also, lol.

http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/

I like the cut of Mr Krahulik's gib.


#120

Ravenpoe

Ravenpoe

Bowielee said:
I have never even considered boycotting a video game developer until I heard about this. Too bad, I loved Assassin's Creed and the Prince of Persia games.

Also, lol.

http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/

I like the cut of Mr Krahulik's gib.
Click to expand...

I think that's HORRIBLE drm, but I won't pirate those games.

I simply won't play them.


#121

Necronic

Necronic

@Li3n said:
Of course saying that DRM would have stopped that is naive, a game not getting cracked within the week is the exception, not the rule, and seeing how there are a few times more DotA players then sold copies of WC3 it was to be expected a lot of people will be checking it out, sooner or later.

BTW, how is Demigod doing, coz most DotA players didn't much liked it (or anything else that doesn't copy DotA closely... hello HoN).
Click to expand...
Just because you can't stop something completely doesn't mean that some form of DRM doesn't make a difference. Piracy (and theft in general) often follows the path of least resistance. It is totally possible to pirate any game out there, console or PC, but generally you see a trend that the ones that are easier to pirate are the ones that get pirated. Of course there are exceptions, especially in the blockbuster titles, but saying that limited DRM would do nothing is, well like you said: naive.


#122

@Li3n

@Li3n

Dude, being from a place where you're more likely to get weird looks for buying a game then pirating it trust me, DRM only makes more people wait for a proper crack.

If stopping people from pirating doesn't actually increase sales what's the point of spending the extra money on it?! Especially when using a system that was cracked 10 games ago...


#123

Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

I wish I'd pirated Spore instead of purchasing it. What a piece of crap.


#124

Frank

Frankie Williamson

Yeah, spore was 50 bucks poorly spent.


#125

AshburnerX

AshburnerX

@Li3n said:
Dude, being from a place where you're more likely to get weird looks for buying a game then pirating it trust me, DRM only makes more people wait for a proper crack.

If stopping people from pirating doesn't actually increase sales what's the point of spending the extra money on it?! Especially when using a system that was cracked 10 games ago...
Click to expand...
The idea is to prevent pirating for that first week of sales, which is when most sales happen. If you can hold them off for at least a week, then you have a good chance of at least breaking even. But if you can't even hold them off that long (or worse, the game is leaked before it's released) then your chances go down significantly, because the so-called "Hardcore" gamer isn't above pirating a game on release if it'll get it to them sooner or more hassle free.


#126

Necronic

Necronic

AshburnerX said:
because the so-called "Hardcore" gamer isn't above pirating a game on release if it'll get it to them sooner or more hassle free.
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ouch, that is not how I use that term (I know I know, its open for discussion)


#127

AshburnerX

AshburnerX

Necronic;343728][QUOTE=AshburnerX said:
because the so-called "Hardcore" gamer isn't above pirating a game on release if it'll get it to them sooner or more hassle free.
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ouch, that is not how I use that term (I know I know, its open for discussion)[/QUOTE]

Lets be perfectly honest... how many dedicated gamers do you know that have pirated a game? I'm willing to bet all of them.The more honest of us try our best to buy games, but you can not deny that their is some sort of correlation between how "commited" (as in willing to commit time to it) you are to gaming and how often you pirate a game. Even gaming icons like Gabe and Tycho have admitted to pirating games (like the leaked version of Doom 3 for example)!


#128

Frank

Frankie Williamson

Yeah, I'm completely against it now, but back in the more wild west days of the interent, I was a frequent user of Direct Connect and the ease of which I could leech every new game.


#129



Alucard

http://www.cad-comic.com/cad/
CAD actually made quite a humoring angle of the upcoming Assassins Creed II PC version of its protection copy crap.


#130

Bowielee

Bowielee

http://www.giantbomb.com/news/remembering-the-past-with-prince-of-persia-the-forgotten-sands/1879/

Too bad I'm going to have to miss out on this. Fuck Ubisoft.


#131

@Li3n

@Li3n

AshburnerX said:
The idea is to prevent pirating for that first week of sales, which is when most sales happen. If you can hold them off for at least a week, then you have a good chance of at least breaking even. But if you can't even hold them off that long (or worse, the game is leaked before it's released) then your chances go down significantly, because the so-called "Hardcore" gamer isn't above pirating a game on release if it'll get it to them sooner or more hassle free.
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Which still doesn't explain why they use systems that have been cracked long ago...

And the before thing is more about leaks then copy protection...


But i always wonder, is there any actual data that shows that games not getting pirated in the 1st week sold more that week, or are they just assuming that because the biggest sale per week happens then not having it on torrent matters?!


#132

figmentPez

figmentPez

More Ubisoft DRM news:
Australian gamers unable to play Settlers 7 due to DRM woes

Apparently large numbers of gamers, especially in Australia, have been unable to play Settlers 7, even in single player, because of DRM problems. (Using the same DRM system as Assassin's Creed 2, Silent Hunter 5 and the upcoming Splinter Cell: Conviction).

A more recent article from Shacknews reports "An Ubisoft representative updated a forum post to say that 'it's a problem that occurs when linking your keys to the multiplayer profile. Ubisoft GNS and TG-OPS are currently working on a solution.'"

This has been an issue for over a week, and apparently they're not even trying to blame it on a DOS attack this time.


#133

AshburnerX

AshburnerX

And yet they STILL won't get rid of the DRM for something more innocuous.


#134

bhamv3

bhamv3

I was reading the game reviews and blogs over at TwentySidedDie (the maker of the webcomic DM of the Rings) and he came up with an interesting analogy for piracy and DRM.

In one of the Monkey Island games, you get caught by some natives and get thrown in a locked hut as a prisoner. The hut has a trapdoor at the bottom, which the player can escape from. If, after escaping, the player talks to one of the natives, they recapture him and throw him back into the hut, lock the door, and add another level of protection to the door. First they nail planks over it, then the next time the player escapes they add chains, and then the next time they add a steel vault door etc. All while the player can still easily escape through the unsecured trapdoor.



In the context of gaming and piracy, it's akin to a hut being filled with treasure, which should only be handed out to people who walk in properly the front door. But thieves are stealing it by going through the trap door. So the natives (game companies, in our analogy) keep adding more protection to the front door, making it harder and harder to go through.

At what point do people think to themselves, screw it, the front door is too much work, I'm taking the trapdoor?


#135

Necronic

Necronic

Samantha: I have to ask you a question. It's a good one so think about it. If two people love each other, but they just can't seem to get it together, when do you get to that point of enough is enough?
Jerry: Never.


#136

Seraphyn

Seraphyn

So how about that Settlers 7 DRM..

My housemate hasn't been able to play a single player game all day because the Ubisoft server is down. No word from Ubisoft, no ETA, no apology, no nothing. I guess they all took the day off since no one would play games on their day off anyway, right? :p


#137

@Li3n

@Li3n

Tis' true, i have more trouble getting to play the games i bought then the other ones... meanwhile the 360 is the platform of choice for game devs because it has the biggest number of games sold when multi-plat, and yet the PS3 is the one with no pirating.


#138

figmentPez

figmentPez

Console games are now starting to require internet connections to play: PS3 Final Fight: Double Impact requires PSN connection Yeah, it's a PSN game that needs to be downloaded, but previous PSN games didn't need a connection every time to play.

Hey, Capcom and Sony, pirates have already been playing these games for years on the PC! There is no point in punishing your legitimate customers over these two games.


#139

Frank

Frankie Williamson

Quit fucking buying their games. Don't download them, don't play them. That's it. That's how it's dealt with.


#140

Bowielee

Bowielee

Frank said:
Quit fucking buying their games. Don't download them, don't play them. That's it. That's how it's dealt with.
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This is the route I'm going with Ubisoft. I'll never buy another game from their company unless they really change their draconian DRM methods.

Pirating them may seem like you're "sticking it to the man" but it really encourages a software company more than dissuades it.


#141

@Li3n

@Li3n

Frank said:
Quit fucking buying their games. Don't download them, don't play them. That's it. That's how it's dealt with.
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Except that that would just make them go "PC games don't sell, move everything to the consoles!" We can't win.

BTW, i forgot to post this, didn't i:



#142

Necronic

Necronic

No it won't. PC gaming will never die. There are a lot of honest gamers out there that simply refuse to play certain games on consoles, mainly because they are unplayable past a certain point. FPS games work on consoles, but it is impossible to play as good on a console as you can on a PC, so the serious FPS gamers never play console. RPGs/RTSs/RPGs play on console, but you can't mod them, which for some games makes them unplayable (bethesda without mods is pretty bad). The crunchy strategy games simply don't hit consoles at all. Best you get is little disney land versions of them like Civ Rev. And then there are MMOs. They may eventually get serious console releases (Dust 514 will be worth watching), but for the next 5 years at least I doubt you will see any major shift.

Oh yeah, and then there's the fact that the PC is a completely open dev environment. ANYONE can make a game. No licensing is required. This is where gems like Dwarf Fortress or Mount and Blade come from. PCs offer more free gaming potential than consoles ever can.

I'm sorry but DRM won't kill PC gaming. It will hurt the major houses that put out inferior products, but PC gaming isn't going anywhere.


#143

@Li3n

@Li3n

Necronic said:
No it won't. PC gaming will never die.
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I don't think we're arguing about that anymore...


#144

figmentPez

figmentPez

@Li3n said:
Except that that would just make them go "PC games don't sell, move everything to the consoles!" We can't win.
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See my posts with news that they're burdening console games with DRM as well. If enough console gamers can be convinced to stay out of this abusive relationship, then maybe the industry will be forced to listen to the consumer.


#145

@Li3n

@Li3n

figmentPez said:
See my posts with news that they're burdening console games with DRM as well. If enough console gamers can be convinced to stay out of this abusive relationship, then maybe the industry will be forced to listen to the consumer.
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2.5 mil console players paid 15$ for 5 maps... i'm not optimistic about that. Plus, consoles are DRM in their own way.


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