DRM - The rise of Big Brother in gaming?

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A

Alucard

Okay thanks guys guess I'll make my future PC game purchases from Steam then. I believe DRM is necessary as well although less intrusive software could be used
instead of screwing a persons pc when you by the game ligit and I hate the limit install on a game too. Looks at Bioshock and Mass Effect.
 
figmentPez

figmentPez

Staff member
BlackCat said:
Okay thanks guys guess I'll make my future PC game purchases from Steam then. I believe DRM is necessary as well although less intrusive software could be used
instead of screwing a persons pc when you by the game ligit and I hate the limit install on a game too. Looks at Bioshock and Mass Effect.
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Keep in mind that a game on Steam can still have other DRM as well, including the associated install limits.
 
Frank

Frank

Necronic said:
Steam is better than iTunes, because it doesn't care how many computers the game is on. Once you buy it you can run it on any system that has Steam. For me steam is an absolute must. 98% of the games update and isntall perfectly without me doing anything, I never have to worry about lost cd keys, and I can usually buy them cheaper than I could at retail. To me Steam (or impulse or whatever) is the only way to go. Personally I think DRM is a necessity. There are a lot of people who think they have a right to anything they can get their hands on, and will not pay for it if they don't have to. This ends up causing massive damage to sales of games and can also cause serious damage to online playability of games. Stardock was able to get away with a 0 DRM policy for a while, because the games they made were generally to complicated for most people (Galactic Civilization/Sins of a Solar Empire), but when they released the DoTA clone Demigod the massive amount of piracy almost singlehandedly destroyed the game by overloading the servers. Hell is to good for them.
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I can see not going with any DRM with their games, but why make it so easy to access the servers with illegitimate copies? Even a CD key system fixes that (the least obstructive DRM there is).
 
@Li3n

@Li3n

Frankie said:
Stardock was able to get away with a 0 DRM policy for a while, because the games they made were generally to complicated for most people (Galactic Civilization/Sins of a Solar Empire), but when they released the DoTA clone Demigod the massive amount of piracy almost singlehandedly destroyed the game by overloading the servers. Hell is to good for them.
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I can see not going with any DRM with their games, but why make it so easy to access the servers with illegitimate copies? Even a CD key system fixes that (the least obstructive DRM there is).
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Actually CD key's on their own don't stop that, the pirated versions couldn't actually play the game on official servers, it was just that they all checked in with the servers overloading them. They had to patch it so that the game doesn't automatically check in when you open it.

Of course saying that DRM would have stopped that is naive, a game not getting cracked within the week is the exception, not the rule, and seeing how there are a few times more DotA players then sold copies of WC3 it was to be expected a lot of people will be checking it out, sooner or later.

BTW, how is Demigod doing, coz most DotA players didn't much liked it (or anything else that doesn't copy DotA closely... hello HoN).
 
figmentPez

figmentPez

Staff member
DRM is set to get even more invasive. From Joystiq and PC Gamer: Ubisoft PC DRM doesn't sound like such a good idea anymore

According to PC Gamer, tests of upcoming Ubisoft PC titles Assassin's Creed 2 and Settlers VII proved how flawed the system actually is. If, for whatever reason, your connection experiences an issue (be it router reboot or a momentary pause in connectivity) the software will immediately boot you to the main menu of the game. Oh, and all that progress you made after a previous save or checkpoint? That's gone.
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Electrical power isn't 100% stable here, and we get brown-outs at least every few weeks. My computer is on a UPS, but my cable modem and router are not. I'd really hate for a single player game to boot me to the menu without allowing me to save just because my router was reset by a power blip. I probably won't be buying any Ubisoft titles in the future.
 
@Li3n

@Li3n

Oh yeah, that's all the rage now in certain HoMM fan forums... and those guys actually once sent death threat over te SF Forge town they where gonna add to Armageddon's Blade in HoMM3...
 
Bowielee

Bowielee

Ubisoft just plain blows in all their attempts at DRM. It's the ONLY company I've had issues with as far as DRM goes. Prince of Persia: The 2 Thrones had ATROCIOUS DRM.
 
A

Alucard

Okay thats it I'm going to stay to consoles from now on when it comes to gaming.
PC you've been a great ride until you fucking get your act together with anti piracy software fuck you.
 
figmentPez

figmentPez

Staff member
BlackCat said:
Okay thas it I'm going to stay to consoles from now on when it comes to gaming.
PC you've been a great ride until you fucking get your act together with anti piracy software fuck you.
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Well not all PC gaming is anywhere near that bad. It doesn't take much research to find out what kind of DRM most games have on them, so you can check before you purchase.

Even if you don't want to bother, I don't think console gaming is going to save you for long. Console makers want to kill the used game market, if they can, and as soon as they think they can require an internet connection to play games, they'll probably try doing it. If gamers put up with this crap on PC, I bet you'll see it on consoles in the next generation.
 
bhamv3

bhamv3

Wait, what? Assassin's Creed 2 is going to require a constant Internet connection to play?

Screw that. Ubisoft just lost a customer.
 
figmentPez

figmentPez

Staff member
figmentPez said:
I don't think console gaming is going to save you for long. Console makers want to kill the used game market, if they can, and as soon as they think they can require an internet connection to play games, they'll probably try doing it. If gamers put up with this crap on PC, I bet you'll see it on consoles in the next generation.
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Another sign that online activated DRM is coming to consoles: Sony is requiring a key-code to play SOCOM: Fireteam Bravo 3 online on the PSP

Echoing the controversial measures announced by Ubisoft last month, Sony has revealed that users of SOCOM: US Navy SEALs Fireteam Bravo 3 will need to register their game online before they are able to access the multiplayer component of the title.

UMD copies will use a redeemable code while the digital version will authenticate automatically in the background.

Furthermore, in a nod to recent plans implemented by EA, anyone buying a pre-owned copy of the game will be forced to cough up $20 to obtain a code to play online.
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@Li3n

@Li3n

First they came for the PC's, but i said nothing (well ok, i yelled PIRACY!) because i was a consoletard, then they came for the PS3, but i said nothing (except "hahaha") because i was an xbot... then tehy came for the XBoxes, but mine RRoD-ed a week after teh warranty ran out...
 
Bubble181

Bubble181

I play all of my games legitimately...And i've missed out on quite a few games because of too horrible DRM. Of course, I think Steam is really pushing the boundary of what I accept in the way of DRm (I don't have it, as yet), so yeah...Gamersgate or GoG are less intrusive, and work just fine, too.
Anyway, I , for one, do, often, play computer games without an internet connection. I'm sorry, that's not "1995", that's "using a laptop for what it's for". You tell me why, exactly, I shouldn't be allowed to play my game on a laptop on a long-distance train, or at my parents' place, or in the couch (where I don't have an internet connection), or at my girlfriend's place, or wherever. Hmm? And yes, my laptop runs all current games quite adequately, it's not a 5-year-old piece of crap.
Requiring a one-time activation I dislike, but understand. Requiring internet every start-up, let alone continuously? Well, not getting my money. And since I really don't like console gaming, tough.
 
Necronic

Necronic

Staff member
@Li3n said:
Of course saying that DRM would have stopped that is naive, a game not getting cracked within the week is the exception, not the rule, and seeing how there are a few times more DotA players then sold copies of WC3 it was to be expected a lot of people will be checking it out, sooner or later.

BTW, how is Demigod doing, coz most DotA players didn't much liked it (or anything else that doesn't copy DotA closely... hello HoN).
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Just because you can't stop something completely doesn't mean that some form of DRM doesn't make a difference. Piracy (and theft in general) often follows the path of least resistance. It is totally possible to pirate any game out there, console or PC, but generally you see a trend that the ones that are easier to pirate are the ones that get pirated. Of course there are exceptions, especially in the blockbuster titles, but saying that limited DRM would do nothing is, well like you said: naive.
 
@Li3n

@Li3n

Dude, being from a place where you're more likely to get weird looks for buying a game then pirating it trust me, DRM only makes more people wait for a proper crack.

If stopping people from pirating doesn't actually increase sales what's the point of spending the extra money on it?! Especially when using a system that was cracked 10 games ago...
 
AshburnerX

AshburnerX

@Li3n said:
Dude, being from a place where you're more likely to get weird looks for buying a game then pirating it trust me, DRM only makes more people wait for a proper crack.

If stopping people from pirating doesn't actually increase sales what's the point of spending the extra money on it?! Especially when using a system that was cracked 10 games ago...
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The idea is to prevent pirating for that first week of sales, which is when most sales happen. If you can hold them off for at least a week, then you have a good chance of at least breaking even. But if you can't even hold them off that long (or worse, the game is leaked before it's released) then your chances go down significantly, because the so-called "Hardcore" gamer isn't above pirating a game on release if it'll get it to them sooner or more hassle free.
 
AshburnerX

AshburnerX

Necronic;343728][QUOTE=AshburnerX said:
because the so-called "Hardcore" gamer isn't above pirating a game on release if it'll get it to them sooner or more hassle free.
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ouch, that is not how I use that term (I know I know, its open for discussion)[/QUOTE]

Lets be perfectly honest... how many dedicated gamers do you know that have pirated a game? I'm willing to bet all of them.The more honest of us try our best to buy games, but you can not deny that their is some sort of correlation between how "commited" (as in willing to commit time to it) you are to gaming and how often you pirate a game. Even gaming icons like Gabe and Tycho have admitted to pirating games (like the leaked version of Doom 3 for example)!
 
Frank

Frank

Yeah, I'm completely against it now, but back in the more wild west days of the interent, I was a frequent user of Direct Connect and the ease of which I could leech every new game.
 
@Li3n

@Li3n

AshburnerX said:
The idea is to prevent pirating for that first week of sales, which is when most sales happen. If you can hold them off for at least a week, then you have a good chance of at least breaking even. But if you can't even hold them off that long (or worse, the game is leaked before it's released) then your chances go down significantly, because the so-called "Hardcore" gamer isn't above pirating a game on release if it'll get it to them sooner or more hassle free.
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Which still doesn't explain why they use systems that have been cracked long ago...

And the before thing is more about leaks then copy protection...


But i always wonder, is there any actual data that shows that games not getting pirated in the 1st week sold more that week, or are they just assuming that because the biggest sale per week happens then not having it on torrent matters?!
 
figmentPez

figmentPez

Staff member
More Ubisoft DRM news:
Australian gamers unable to play Settlers 7 due to DRM woes

Apparently large numbers of gamers, especially in Australia, have been unable to play Settlers 7, even in single player, because of DRM problems. (Using the same DRM system as Assassin's Creed 2, Silent Hunter 5 and the upcoming Splinter Cell: Conviction).

A more recent article from Shacknews reports "An Ubisoft representative updated a forum post to say that 'it's a problem that occurs when linking your keys to the multiplayer profile. Ubisoft GNS and TG-OPS are currently working on a solution.'"

This has been an issue for over a week, and apparently they're not even trying to blame it on a DOS attack this time.
 
bhamv3

bhamv3

I was reading the game reviews and blogs over at TwentySidedDie (the maker of the webcomic DM of the Rings) and he came up with an interesting analogy for piracy and DRM.

In one of the Monkey Island games, you get caught by some natives and get thrown in a locked hut as a prisoner. The hut has a trapdoor at the bottom, which the player can escape from. If, after escaping, the player talks to one of the natives, they recapture him and throw him back into the hut, lock the door, and add another level of protection to the door. First they nail planks over it, then the next time the player escapes they add chains, and then the next time they add a steel vault door etc. All while the player can still easily escape through the unsecured trapdoor.



In the context of gaming and piracy, it's akin to a hut being filled with treasure, which should only be handed out to people who walk in properly the front door. But thieves are stealing it by going through the trap door. So the natives (game companies, in our analogy) keep adding more protection to the front door, making it harder and harder to go through.

At what point do people think to themselves, screw it, the front door is too much work, I'm taking the trapdoor?
 
Necronic

Necronic

Staff member
Samantha: I have to ask you a question. It's a good one so think about it. If two people love each other, but they just can't seem to get it together, when do you get to that point of enough is enough?
Jerry: Never.
 
Seraphyn

Seraphyn

So how about that Settlers 7 DRM..

My housemate hasn't been able to play a single player game all day because the Ubisoft server is down. No word from Ubisoft, no ETA, no apology, no nothing. I guess they all took the day off since no one would play games on their day off anyway, right? :p
 
@Li3n

@Li3n

Tis' true, i have more trouble getting to play the games i bought then the other ones... meanwhile the 360 is the platform of choice for game devs because it has the biggest number of games sold when multi-plat, and yet the PS3 is the one with no pirating.
 
figmentPez

figmentPez

Staff member
Console games are now starting to require internet connections to play: PS3 Final Fight: Double Impact requires PSN connection Yeah, it's a PSN game that needs to be downloaded, but previous PSN games didn't need a connection every time to play.

Hey, Capcom and Sony, pirates have already been playing these games for years on the PC! There is no point in punishing your legitimate customers over these two games.
 
Frank

Frank

Quit fucking buying their games. Don't download them, don't play them. That's it. That's how it's dealt with.
 
Bowielee

Bowielee

Frank said:
Quit fucking buying their games. Don't download them, don't play them. That's it. That's how it's dealt with.
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This is the route I'm going with Ubisoft. I'll never buy another game from their company unless they really change their draconian DRM methods.

Pirating them may seem like you're "sticking it to the man" but it really encourages a software company more than dissuades it.
 
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