The State of the Union Address (no-clap edition)

[Espy]

You obviously haven't thought this through. Telling the superior they got the shit kicked out of them will lead to an investigation. The investigation reveals the guy got beat up because he is gay (which the people who get in trouble for beating the guy up for will tell the investigators). Thus, the gay man gets kicked out for being gay. His choice is either stay quiet and risk physical harm or talk and risk losing his job and benefits. Shitty options.

Or were you playing the role of the ignorant?

Just to point out, I know guys who have been beat up by hicks for "being gay" when they aren't gay. Even if the guys say, "Dur, we beat him up cuz he's gay" that doesn't get you kicked out of the military because it doesn't prove anything.[/QUOTE]
It does put you under a microscope. Then you can have a dishonorable discharge if you're caught lying to your superior.[/QUOTE]

Of course it could but I think you are overestimating the army's desire to kick out gays. According to ARMY WIFE of ESPY (tm) it's really not something most concern themselves with unless you go out of your way to flaunt it. Honestly, I think you are both right, both are possibilities, but Covar is hardly being ignorant any more than you are being cynical. You are both expressing realistic possibilities.[/QUOTE]

This looks pretty clear cut to me.

\\"This law requires the Department of Defense to separate from the armed forces members who engage in or attempt to engage in homosexual acts; state they are homosexual or bisexual; or marry or attempt to marry a person of the same biological sex,\\" said Cynthia Smith, a department spokeswoman.

Source here
In 2008, 619 service men and women were kicked out, 94 of which are linguists.

Yeah, I'm being cynical.[/QUOTE]

You can quote that all day long, it doesn't change the actual implementation of it in real life.

 

[Krisken]

It also need to go up to a DoD level investigation before any judgement is passed.

But Krisken is right, The Army is just full of ignorant, homophobic, assholes who love nothing more than kicking the ever-living shit out of any fellow soldier who they suspect might play for the other side and watching them get kicked out of the military faster then you can spell gay, because they tried to report it.

You have to work on your reading comprehension. Point out where I said the military is filled with homophobes waiting to beat people up. What? You can't? Oh yeah, because you FUCKING MADE IT UP. I said "From what I've gotten from people who have served, they didn't give a shit if the guy a bunk over was gay or not so long as they did their job. Sure, you'll have a few closet homophobes, but that comes with any change."

You want to make shit up, do it somewhere else. Don't play that game with me.

---------- Post added at 04:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:04 PM ----------

You can quote that all day long, it doesn't change the actual implementation of it in real life.

Did you just tell me facts have nothing to do with real life? Wow. I'm done. There's no arguing with that logic.

 

[GasBandit]

In 2008, 619 service men and women were kicked out, 94 of which are linguists.

I guess they weren't cunning enough.

 

[Espy]

You can quote that all day long, it doesn't change the actual implementation of it in real life.

Did you just tell me facts have nothing to do with real life? Wow. I'm done. There's no arguing with that logic.[/QUOTE]

Dude. We were talking about a specific event, someone being beat up and whether or not the attackers claiming because it was due to them being gay that would lead to them being kicked out. You quoted a law, which is indeed the LAW, and and article that talks about some real examples (which, because you seem to have missed it, I said DO happen) however it doesn't mean thats how it would be played out in the situation we are discussing. I'm not arguing whether or not someone who puts on a gay pride parade is going to get investigated or even someone who tells another soldier they are gay, all of those things could merit investigation and sometimes they clearly end up happening, but rather the situation we were actually discussing.

I don't know what "logic" you find so odd about that. My wife and I know several gay people in the military. They follow the rules of DODT and they are left alone. It doesn't mean that it doesn't happen, I've already agreed with you it does, I've merely put forth my view and the view of a serviceperson regarding the fictional situation that was thrown out there. You are the one who took it to a wider scale and ignored where I agreed with you that it does and can happen.

My point, that I stated way back earlier in the thread is that YES it could happen but in that specific case it was unlikely due to several reasons. I never said gays don't get kicked out of the military.

 

[Covar]

I'm not arguing whether or not someone who puts on a gay pride parade is going to get investigated

Which it should not. If they are in uniform at the parade however they can get in trouble for different reasons. Gay bars are similar. Going to a gay bar; not cause for investigation. Making out with another man at a gay bar; cause for investigation.

I just love that Krisken himself quotes the Don't Ask Don't Tell rules, and they break his example he keeps trying to push.

 

[Espy]

I'm not arguing whether or not someone who puts on a gay pride parade is going to get investigated

Which it should not. If they are in uniform at the parade however they can get in trouble for different reasons. Gay bars are similar. Going to a gay bar; not cause for investigation. Making out with another man at a gay bar; cause for investigation.

I just love that Krisken himself quotes the Don't Ask Don't Tell rules, and they break his example he keeps trying to push.

I meant, like, a parade on the base or something, I dunno. My point was there are clear reasons why someone would be investigated, from my wife's experiences in the military as well as the experiences of those I know in the military who are gay, many people turn a blind eye to anything less than blatant behavior.

Either way, I'm against DODT and I'm glad it's going away.

 

[Charlie Don't Surf]

Who cares what the actual implementation is? Fuck Don't Ask Don't Tell, because it's fucking discriminatory and backwards and has no place in any country on earth that's located in the 21st century, and populated by actual human beings.

 

[GasBandit]

Who cares what the actual implementation is? Fuck Don't Ask Don't Tell, because it's fucking discriminatory and backwards and has no place in any country on earth that's located in the 21st century, and populated by actual human beings.

This message brought to you by Proposition 8, and the committee to alienate the sympathetic.

It's that sort of attitude that has set the gay rights movement back decades. "Who cares about why progress is slow, we want what we want and want it NOW and we're going to be as in your face and obstreperous about that as possible!"

News flash: 60s style protests (or the attitudes that shaped their methods) don't do anything but make you look like a myopic, ideological malcontent, causing those who might otherwise be supportive of your cause to stay silent because you're acting like a dick-douche.

 

[Espy]

I dunno gas, the people who aren't going to accept DODT are just going to be that way, I don't see how ending it really changes things other than doing something positive. You can't ease DODT out or anything.

 

[GasBandit]

I dunno gas, the people who aren't going to accept DODT are just going to be that way, I don't see how ending it really changes things other than doing something positive. You can't ease DODT out or anything.

And there's a difference between what you just said and boner's confrontational "just fucking do it you goddamned redneck hitler" diatribe. It's not just what you say, it's how you say it, especially when you're trying to make society change.

 

[Steven Soderburgin]

Hey so since this has sort of turned into the DADT thread, the senate is having a hearing about DADT right now. They need to study it for a year despite like a dozen studies that all come to the conclusion that DADT is nothing but harmful to gays and to the armed forces in general, including one from the Pentagon. Also people are expected to bring up gay marriage benefits for service members even though that shouldn't be an issue because the federal government doesn't recognize gay marriage or partnerships in any form and also because it shouldn't matter to someone who is a decent human being.

 

[Chazwozel]

Hey so since this has sort of turned into the DADT thread, the senate is having a hearing about DADT right now. They need to study it for a year despite like a dozen studies that all come to the conclusion that DADT is nothing but harmful to gays and to the armed forces in general, including one from the Pentagon. Also people are expected to bring up gay marriage benefits for service members even though that shouldn't be an issue because the federal government doesn't recognize gay marriage or partnerships in any form and also because it shouldn't matter to someone who is a decent human being.

They took yer jerbs!

 

[Iaculus]

A thought regarding the whole shower business - if gay and lesbian soldiers were required to have separate showers, would that not logically mean either that heterosexual male and female soldiers should share bathrooms with each other Starship Troopers-style, or that each homosexual soldier then requires a private cubicle of his or her own?

I mean, think about it.

 

[Chazwozel]

A thought regarding the whole shower business - if gay and lesbian soldiers were required to have separate showers, would that not logically mean either that heterosexual male and female soldiers should share bathrooms with each other Starship Troopers-style, or that each homosexual soldier then requires a private cubicle of his or her own?

I mean, think about it.

Shower room orgy! Where's my local enlistment office!?

 

[Calleja]

Isn't there a thread were people talk about Obama's talk with the GOP?

I saw that on the Daily Show yesterday and... DAMN did Obama kick ass all around. Fox News went so far as to cut the live feed!

 

[Soliloquy]

Isn't there a thread were people talk about Obama's talk with the GOP?

I saw that on the Daily Show yesterday and... DAMN did Obama kick ass all around. Fox News went so far as to cut the live feed!

Wait, what? They actually cut the feed?

I thought that was only done by evil organizations when their plans were being compromis--

Oh, wait. yeah.

 

[Krisken]

Technically Fox News cut away 20 minutes early for analysis on the event, but yeah, hard to get a real analysis when the thing was still going on.

On ABC Arianna Huffington asked Roger Ailes why they did it and he said "Because we're the most trusted name in news."

 

[@Li3n]

On ABC Arianna Huffington asked Roger Ailes why they did it and he said "Because we're the most trusted name in news."

Well they can't compromise their standing by lying about the last 20 minutes, now can they. Better to just ignore them.

 

[Calleja]

But seriously, Obama took his gloves off and took no prisoners. And he KNEW he was kicking ass, when they told him maybe it was time to end the talk he was all "oh, no, it's ok, I'm having fun."

Respect.

 

[Hailey Knight]

Hey so since this has sort of turned into the DADT thread, the senate is having a hearing about DADT right now. They need to study it for a year despite like a dozen studies that all come to the conclusion that DADT is nothing but harmful to gays and to the armed forces in general, including one from the Pentagon. Also people are expected to bring up gay marriage benefits for service members even though that shouldn't be an issue because the federal government doesn't recognize gay marriage or partnerships in any form and also because it shouldn't matter to someone who is a decent human being.

They took yer jerbs![/QUOTE]

:lol: