The Last Airbender - New Trailer!

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Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

I think there's a lot, actually. The whole Appa being missing thing really didn't serve much purpose overall. They'll probably still include it in the movie, but it is fat that could be trimmed. Its only purpose in the long run is to give Zuko that moment where his actions conflict with his feelings, and for all we know that will be unfortunately simplified for American cinema. I think Book 2 stretched out a number of things for the sake of running a season, hence that one episode where they showed everyone going off and doing their own thing. It was down time when they reached the Earth Kingdom.

I also feel like the whole Earth Kingdom being secretly controlled by that one guy can be condensed quite a bit. The Fire Nation drill might also work better during the climax than where it occurred in the series. Television stories work differently than film. In TV you need to spread things out, whereas in a movie, more events happen at once. And no commercial breaks! :p
 
Shaw Coyote

Shaw Coyote

Gusto said:
Fair enough but (in my mind at least) there's not a lot of dead weight that can be cut off Book 2.
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I'm hoping that they split Season 2 into two movies. The 1st part introducing Toph and Azula, climaxing with the Library/Desert/Appa kidnapping thing. The 2nd part dealing with the Dai Li, Zuko's struggle, and ending with the fall of the Earth Kingdom.
 
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Raemon777

I actually think Avatar is well suited for condensing into two hour movies. Each season is 7 hours long, has several filler episodes and a lot of stuff that can be condensed into a single episode.

For Book 1, the episodes that feel "necessary" are:

Boy in the Iceberg
The Avatar returns
The Warriors of Kyoshi (I'd consider this unnecessary except that we know Suki is in the movie)
Avatar Roku
The Storm (condensed into about 5 minutes since all you need is the flashback)
The Blue Spirit (this may or may not be necessary, but you can cut out the frog side story and make it 10 minutes long)
The Waterbending Mastery
Siege on the North, 1 & 2 (You COULD cut Koh, but he's the coolest character in season 1 so I hope they don't)

That's about 2 and a half hours right there. Plus some fudging for eliminating some extraneous parts from certain episodes and replacing them with a few good parts from other episodes.

For Book 2:

The Avatar State (might be cutable, since it doesn't really tie in with the rest of the story, but I think it sets up how important it is to master the Avatar State, which is kinda the climax of the story)
Return to Omashu (Probably simplified)
Blind Bandit (Possibly cutting out the WWF thing, though I'm not sure how they'd be introduced to Toph otherwise)
Zuko Alone (Cutable, but I sure hope it isn't)
The Chase (I think this can probably be condensed. The showdown with Azula is what's important)
Bitter Work (condensed to a 10 minute montage)
The Library
The Desert/Journey to Ba Sing Se (Condensed together. Appa's disappearance is important but the screentime devoted to it can be cut down tremendously. A lot of episodes have Aang say basically the same things to remind new viewers what the status quo is)
City of Walls and Secrets/Lake Laogai/The Earth King (Probably condensible but I can't remember enough to say how. Let's say 40 minutes here)
The Guru
Crossroads of Destiny

That's a little over 3 hours, which is too long but close enough that you could probably shave it down to 2.5 if you tried.

It would be interesting to see if someone edits down the original shows on their own, and then compares it to the movie.

Edit: Ba Sing Se will probably be cut a lot by virtue of not having Jet in it, although that section would end up being completely reworked and I can't predict how.
 
Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

Raemon777 said:
It would be interesting to see if someone edits down the original shows on their own, and then compares it to the movie.
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That would be a way to match up scenes, but would be somewhat divided continuity-wise.

Also, they're going to add things. It's not just going to be chopping the episodes up.

I'm starting to feel like less people know about the adapting process here than I previously believed, especially after the Watchmen discussions. You can't cling to this event and that event, you have to start from the ground and build the movie up as its own creation, matching the big story, atmosphere, etc. Playing carver with the source material doesn't work. That's how you get shit like Bubastus in the Watchmen movie, whose appearance becomes irrelevant with the changes made, but is stuck in there because it's in the source material.

I should probably quit on this subject though, because it has no purpose in me arguing to get people to understand. The movie is going to be what it is regardless and viewers will have to live with that. Like with the Watchmen discussions. Not to mention Spider-man 3. I was telling people the summer before the movie came out that Venom would get squeezed into the end of the movie. "Nuh-uh, that's just a teaser at the end and they're saving him for the fourth movie." It's not like they haven't been making movies for a century. I'd think more people knew what went into doing this by now.
 
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Raemon777

I know how adapting normally has to work (I don't know enough to claim to be able to do it effectively myself, but I know enough to know how little I know). I'm actually a big proponent of people willing to massively change stuff for the big screen because it has very different limitations.

But I actually thought Watchmen was pretty good (saw the movie first), and a good example of a movie that could afford to stick mostly to the source material because the source material was about the right length to begin with (if you cut out the Black Freighter it's essentially a storyboard for a movie), and at the same time was willing to completely change the ending to meet the contraints of the screen. Bubastus is the only thing that stuck out when I saw it the first time, but I didn't mind him terribly. They could have rewritten a lot of stuff and maybe it would have been a better movie if they did, but it also could have ended up a much worse movie and I don't begrudge them "playing it safe" for the most part.

I think Avatar is similar to Watchmen in that the source material is close enough to normal screentime that if you cut away the filler, you're left with a sequence of events close to a normal size movie. I'm not saying they should just film the episodes I listed above as life action - each of their scripts was set up to include it's own beginning, middle and end, and in the movie they'll need to flow together as a solid whole. But I think the main events from the above-listed episodes are approximately in the right sequence to make a story that would work well in the big screen.

I will say (sadly) that a lot of the humor will have to be removed or changed, not just for time constraints but because it relies on cartoon physics and television timing that wouldn't translate to a live action movie.
 
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Raemon777

I'm not sure what you mean by that. Bubastus was the only thing that struck me as "inserted for the benefit of fanboys as opposed to for the general moviegoing audience." I thought the rest flowed fairly well, and I think my position as someone who saw the movie first suggests that that wasn't just me carrying over my preference for the book version.
 
Rovewin

Rovewin

I agree that the they will probably build up the movie on its own keeping only some overarching events and characters. For the second movie they will probably keep the traveling to Ba Sing Se to a minimum. Then they will be able to keep interest with the deception, intrigue and fire nation attacks on it. Toph I bet will be acting as a performer or swindler in Ba Sing Se and meet up that way. They will probably transport the finding out of black sun over to the third movie to keep the focus on their current crisis.
 
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Raemon777

Nevermind. I'm just gonna stop this now.
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What, it's bad that I liked Watchmen just fine?

I actually like Rovewin's idea about putting all the "Eclipse" stuff in the third movie. You can either have the Library be part of an escape from Ba-Sing Se or you can just have them find out some other random way. Though you'd need to come up with some other way for Azula to find out. (Actually, thinking about it more, I think it's easiest if you keep it in the second movie but get rid of the huge library adventure to find it, reducing that to meeting some historian in a bar who happens to already know about the Eclipse).

Regardless, you're probably right about skipping through most of the whole Desert trip.
 
fade

fade

Staff member
I'm a huge fan of the graphic novel, and I really liked the movie (GASP!). The opening credits alone were worth it.
 
Espy

Espy

Yeah, I liked the Watchmen movie, but I probably wont' ever rush to watch it again. It was a fine film and probably the best Watchmen film that could ever be made but it pales next to the depth of the comic.
 
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Raemon777

I had my dad read the comic after he saw the movie, and it didn't impress him that much. I agree that the comic has more depth but I think a lot of the things that made the comic amazing was a) that a book like that hadn't been made before, and b) that it was extremely relevant at the time it came out.

Regardless, I think the movie functions fine as a companion to the book rather than a true alternate form of it. You watch the movie to see all the coolest scenes played out with awesome effects, and then you read the book to get the depth. There was a lot of stuff in the book that didn't feel particularly meaningful until suddenly it all came together in a moment that can't really be explained, just experienced. (At the end of Doctor Manhattan's monologue, when there's the quote from Albert Einstein "I wish I had been a watchmaker" I actually cried. I can't quite explain why. Other good moments include the hug between the newspaper guy and kid, and the simple word "Nostalgia" near the end.)
 
Espy

Espy

Regarding depth though Raemon, see, part of my problem with the movie was that very few of the characters had any real depth. I didn't really care about any of them in the movie, they were all flash and style with no substance. Now I realize that for many people that doesn't matter and sometimes it doesn't matter to me either, I just want a fun movie so I'm not holding it against people either.
As far as the graphic novel not impressing your dad well... I don't know your dad and what does impress him. I know many "deep" and "thoughtful" folks who would never be impressed by any comic book no matter how well done. We can debate the merits of a piece of literature all day and in the end personal taste will always win out. As far as movie vs graphic novel goes I understand why MANY would prefer the movie but I'm sad they don't get nor see the brilliance and depth in the comic that takes the experience, in my opinion, much further.
 
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Raemon777

The reason my dad was unimpressed, I think, had a lot to do with all the philosophy in the book being fairly old hat to him. (For example, at the time, the notion that we basically took credit for all of Russia's work during WWII and that contributed to the Cold War, might have been interesting, but by now that's already been his opinion for 20+ years.)
 
@Li3n

@Li3n

Raemon777 said:
I'm not sure what you mean by that. Bubastus was the only thing that struck me as \\"inserted for the benefit of fanboys as opposed to for the general moviegoing audience.\\" I thought the rest flowed fairly well, and I think my position as someone who saw the movie first suggests that that wasn't just me carrying over my preference for the book version.
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Bubastis.... like teh bloody city: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bubastis


And the ending made no sense as there was no advantage to teaming up against Manhattan, neither side could actually do anything against him...

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Raemon777 said:
The reason my dad was unimpressed, I think, had a lot to do with all the philosophy in the book being fairly old hat to him. (For example, at the time, the notion that we basically took credit for all of Russia's work during WWII and that contributed to the Cold War, might have been interesting, but by now that's already been his opinion for 20+ years.)
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I'm pretty sure that's the other way around... the Cold War being why y'all took all the credit. (did you know that Churchill wanted to attack Russia right after they won?)
 
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fade

Staff member
How would they know? How would they know they had any chance against an alien squid? And what's the alternative? Roll over and take it from Dr. Manhattan?
 
@Li3n

@Li3n

They'd know because fear of him was what kept the Russians from doing what they did in the real world etc.

And the squid died, and was organic, they all saw that.


And frankly i think they would have launched their nukes under the idea that it was an attack by the other side (the russians most certainly as Manhattan was the US's weapon as they saw it).

Peple forget that it wasn't just the squid, but the psychic stuff too... the destruction was never the main motivator.
 
Shaw Coyote

Shaw Coyote

So guys, Avatar's pretty cool.

I just bought the second season today (thank you best buy gift card I found in my pants!) and I'm already up to the Blind Bandit.
 
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Raemon777

One of the chapters of Watchmen has an epitaph that talks about the relationship between the US and Russia, which may or may not have been accurate (I think it was, even if it didn't tell the whole story), but regardless, my dad already had the same viewpoint.

I think part of the thing with the ending was that they destroyed cities on both sides of the Cold War, so that it was clearly not purely a US move.

Obligatory discussion of Avatar since it's theoretically the point of the thread: Shaw, my favorite episode is Bitter Work, which should be coming up shortly for you. Lemme know how it goes. (Unless you've already watched the whole thing and are just rewatching).
 
@Li3n

@Li3n

Raemon777 said:
I think part of the thing with the ending was that they destroyed cities on both sides of the Cold War, so that it was clearly not purely a US move.
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And by the time they got that they probably would have already launched. Attacking with a psychic attack + squid thing in just one city = no assumption it was a bomb...
 
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Raemon777

Well, we're starting from the assumption (correctly or not, although I lean towards correctly) that a giant squid-thing plus psychic attack is more craziness than a two hour movie that doesn't have time to go into genetic modification or psychic-ness can afford to use as a climax. I agree with them that Doctor Manhattan was the only power source the movie had time to establish that would make a logical ending.

What might have been (significantly) more logical is making an initial attack against a single American city, waiting just long enough for the news to filter over to the Russians, and then making a second attack. That way no confusion on the part of the Russians (or rather they'd be confused the way you wanted them to).

The other thing is that for it to actually work, you'd need to somehow leave the world with an actual threat from Manhattan that would carry over for more than a few years. If Doc attacks once and then leaves, how long are people actually going to be scared (same applies to giant squid).
 
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Raemon777

BTW, I just rewatched "The Avatar State" and I agree with whoever said earlier that it is one of the best places to introduce people to the show. It pretty much introduces all the major running themes of the show in a single episode and has good acting to boot.
 
@Li3n

@Li3n

Raemon777 said:
The other thing is that for it to actually work, you'd need to somehow leave the world with an actual threat from Manhattan that would carry over for more than a few years. If Doc attacks once and then leaves, how long are people actually going to be scared (same applies to giant squid).
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That's why Ozy is needed alive... that was all part of the plan.

But with Manhattan it would be harder as how would Ozy make it so that people don't give in to despair against unstoppable, random attacks by one guy? The fake aliens could easily be leaving bodies or get killed by people even while keeping the threat real...
 
@Li3n

@Li3n

Well we're trying...


Oh and the book did take into account how ridiculous the squid was as Owl thought Ozy was delusional... but once it happened no one would consider it ridiculous.
 
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fade

Staff member
escushion said:
Man, am I glad I'm not taking part in this shit again. It looks almost as fun as it did a year ago.
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Why? there's no drama here. People have different opinions. I think everyone understands that some of the meaning, possibly a lot, was stripped from the movie. But that doesn't make it bad in and of itself. That's true of any adaptation.

I do disagree with @Li3n still. I don't care if Dr. Manhattan had kept the USSR in check before--when he starts blowing up cities, it's a different thing entirely.
 
@Li3n

@Li3n

fade said:
I do disagree with @Li3n still. I don't care if Dr. Manhattan had kept the USSR in check before--when he starts blowing up cities, it's a different thing entirely.
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Way to miss the point... the idea was that they where all already scared of him, now they should all be frickin' running for the hills, not partnering up, because hey know they can't stop him. The only thing keeping the US from attacking the USSR was that Manhattan said he couldn't get all their nukes in time...

But the fear thing work for the russian retaliating before they confirmed it happened to the americans too...
 
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fade

Staff member
What are you talking about? I didn't miss the point at all (and what an rude way to say it). That was the entire point--to bring everyone together against some big common scary thing instead of against one another. I mean, Veidt comes out and says that! That was practically the thesis of the whole "I'm not some Saturday morning cartoon villain" speech.
 
Shaw Coyote

Shaw Coyote

2 new "trailers" out! One is from the kids choice awards, and one is from overseas, showing some new footage!







I'm really digging the look of the live action bending. Also, the scene with Katara and Zuko is pretty much verbatim from the show.

edit: New video put in, showing the japanese trailer.
 
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