So you answered an personal ad on Craigslist...

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Espy

Espy

and the rather attractive female who posted it wants you to "fulfill" a fantasy of hers.
She wants you to come over and "rape" her.
Now, being the sort of desperate person that trolls craiglist for booty you go, sure, that could be fun, so you trade some pictures and she gives you details on how she wants you to go about doing this and you go ahead with it.
Your are, by the way, 26-year-old Ty McDowell.
So you go ahead with this and then, once the police sort things out you get arrested for rape.
Why?
The "woman" who set up the fantasy is actually the woman's ex-boyfriend, a U.S. Marine named Jebidiah Stipe. And it was Stipe, police say, who was e-mailing with McDowell as he planned the break-in and rape.

Now, you are being charged with rape and he is your accomplice. According to the article, http://www.kdvr.com/news/kdvr-craigslist-rape-020410,0,6704069.story the goal is to argue you did were merely acting on a fantasy, not attempting to actually rape anyone else.

So, should the court be lenient on this guy? Should the marine be charged with only being an accessory? Who should actually face more jail time or should the guy who answered that go free and the marine take the full hit for this or is he actually more responbile since he did not actually verify that the woman was indeed who she said she was? What say you Halforumites?
Also: Think twice before answering anonymous ads online.
 
Calleja

Calleja

So you answered an ad on CL...

Damn.

The ex-boyfriend should face complete rape-charges, that's for sure. The moron who answered? Eeesh... tough. His intention was really not that of actual rape, and rape fantasies are very, very real, believe me. It's a tough one, for sure.
 
bhamv3

bhamv3

Yeah, very tough one, this. If they go lenient on the guy, that might be opening the door to future "but I thought it was a fantasy" defenses.

Though, yes, the guy should've been more careful in confirming the woman was the person who contacted him, and actually wanted to do this.

I suppose the best thing to take from this would be:
Think twice before answering anonymous ads online.
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Espy

Espy

I am very surprised the bf is only facing accomplice charges... that seems very strange to me. Maybe someone who knows the system can explain why that is.
 
GasBandit

GasBandit

Staff member
I'd say, since it is a crime to arrange for someone to kill someone else, it should also be considered a crime to arrange for someone to rape someone else. After all, it's still murder even if the person putting out the hit tells the hitman the target wants to die.

What it boils down to is the marine committed an act with the express purpose to cause bodily (and psychological) harm to someone else, and he should definitely be charged for it.
 
Cajungal

Cajungal

Staff member
This is like that story from a few months back about the woman whose address was posted on Craigslist as the location for a sex party. All I could think was, 'thank God no one forced their way into her home.' This is awful. The guy who answered should have been much more wary of such a shady invitation.
 
Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

If the guy is telling the truth, he should've confirmed stuff with her a la by phone, meeting in-person on a talking circumstance first, etc.

Either way, the marine should be charged as well with the full crime.
 
ScytheRexx

ScytheRexx

This is one of those situations where the idiot was so jacked up with the idea of getting in a rape fantasy that he didn't think to confirm it was just a fantasy. He should have told "her" that he would not consider it unless he spoke with "her" in person, to realize that this is what she wanted. Even the phone can be forged because the marine would have just gotten another woman to do it, you have to meet the woman to know that you are consenting and it is just fantasy.

They fact he took the whole thing as it was, means he needs to get punished. He made a huge mistake, but that mistake physically and mentally scarred someone. That deserves punishment.
 
AshburnerX

AshburnerX

If the guy who actually committed the rape has the documentation (I.E. chat logs with the "woman", emails, the original ad saved somewhere) then he can probably prove he acted in good faith and he should probably get off with probation, counseling, restitution of some sort, and probably a hefty dose of community service. I'd also keep him off the sex offender list: "deviancy" has been punished for far too long and all it's doing is pushing people further and further into the fringes. However... if he didn't have the foresight to save the information he had been given, then I really don't have any pity for this guy. It was his duty to prove that this was legit and he clearly didn't go far enough to do it.

The guy who set him up, however, should be punished to the full extent of the law. He's ruined two lives here and he should pay for it.
 
C

Chibibar

ScytheRexx said:
This is one of those situations where the idiot was so jacked up with the idea of getting in a rape fantasy that he didn't think to confirm it was just a fantasy. He should have told "her" that he would not consider it unless he spoke with "her" in person, to realize that this is what she wanted. Even the phone can be forged because the marine would have just gotten another woman to do it, you have to meet the woman to know that you are consenting and it is just fantasy.

They fact he took the whole thing as it was, means he needs to get punished. He made a huge mistake, but that mistake physically and mentally scarred someone. That deserves punishment.
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I believe that he should have met with her in person, but I don't think the guy should be punish for it. To me, S&M can be as scarring like rape. I mean I am not much of being tied up and beaten (fantasy or not)

First thing came to my head when reading the OP was.... I hope he got a lawyer to draw up legal protection before doing the "fantasy" since rape IS a crime in all states.
 
GasBandit

GasBandit

Staff member
AshburnerX said:
If the guy who actually committed the rape has the documentation (I.E. chat logs with the "woman", emails, the original ad saved somewhere) then he can probably prove he acted in good faith and he should probably get off with probation, counseling, restitution of some sort, and probably a hefty dose of community service. I'd also keep him off the sex offender list: "deviancy" has been punished for far too long and all it's doing is pushing people further and further into the fringes. However... if he didn't have the foresight to save the information he had been given, then I really don't have any pity for this guy. It was his duty to prove that this was legit and he clearly didn't go far enough to do it.

The guy who set him up, however, should be punished to the full extent of the law. He's ruined two lives here and he should pay for it.
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I disagree about the guy who actually did the deed. That you commit a heinous crime "accidentally" most often does not absolve you of your crime. Perhaps he should have a somewhat reduced prison sentence, but he raped a woman. He didn't have the common sense to verify the situation before he raped someone because he thought she had e-mailed him that it was OK. This was a failure of due diligence of Brobdingnagian proportions, and he should go down for it. The last thing we need is another technicality to get off genuine criminals.
 
bhamv3

bhamv3

Basically, punish the guy for not knowing better?

I could get behind that, I guess. Drunk driving is pretty stupid too, and we punish people for that.
 
GasBandit

GasBandit

Staff member
bhamv3 said:
Basically, punish the guy for not knowing better?

I could get behind that, I guess. Drunk driving is pretty stupid too, and we punish people for that.
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There's not knowing better, and then there's thinking that an uninvestigated e-mail makes rape OK. This guy didn't accidentally back over somebody he didn't know was behind his car.
 
ScytheRexx

ScytheRexx

I believe that he should have met with her in person, but I don't think the guy should be punish for it. To me, S&M can be as scarring like rape. I mean I am not much of being tied up and beaten (fantasy or not)
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Depends on the person. I have no issues with the more violent natures of sex, I can't even get into what my wife and I do, but the fact is that she didn't consent, and in those situations you need consent, you need to know the other person really wants it. The act of rape is when one party forces sex onto another without consent, regardless of how the rapists was considering it.

He didn't take the time to make sure the fantasy was legit, and instead took it from face value from e-mails. You can't get anymore impersonal then that. If he gets off then any little freak on Craigslist can pick a random house that they know has a single woman, say "I want someone to rape me as part of a fantasy here is the address", and then how is that girl going to feel when her back door is broken open and a guy is on top of her?

The guy needs to be punished. The level of punishment depends on the law, but he still needs to be punished.
 
Tinwhistler

Tinwhistler

I have a hard time envisioning raping someone, and not knowing you're raping them, even if you started out believing you were acting out a rape fantasy. Real terror is not the same as fantasy play acting.
 
Dave

Dave

Staff member
The Marine should be charged for rape and for fraud as he portrayed himself as someone else. Once he serves his time he should be charged with conduct unbecoming a Marine and slammed in military court also. Let him do additional time in Leavenworth.

As to the guy who did it....He should also be charged with rape and here's why. Even though he thought it was consensual he still WANTED to commit the act of violence against a woman. It turns out he had a fantasy of tying and raping a woman and proved he was not above acting on these fantasies. Granted, he may not have ever acted on it without this virtual impetus, but he did in this case.

If MY WIFE wanted me to do this I don't think I could. If she talked me into it and she fought me like this woman must have fought him, I would have stopped immediately because I would have known something was seriously wrong. This guy not only wanted to do the act but showed he was willing to act it out even when he MUST have at some point realized that something was wrong.
 
Tinwhistler

Tinwhistler

Dave said:
The Marine should be charged for rape and for fraud as he portrayed himself as someone else. Once he serves his time he should be charged with conduct unbecoming a Marine and slammed in military court also. Let him do additional time in Leavenworth.

As to the guy who did it....He should also be charged with rape and here's why. Even though he thought it was consensual he still WANTED to commit the act of violence against a woman. It turns out he had a fantasy of tying and raping a woman and proved he was not above acting on these fantasies. Granted, he may not have ever acted on it without this virtual impetus, but he did in this case.

If MY WIFE wanted me to do this I don't think I could. If she talked me into it and she fought me like this woman must have fought him, I would have stopped immediately because I would have known something was seriously wrong. This guy not only wanted to do the act but showed he was willing to act it out even when he MUST have at some point realized that something was wrong.
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I'm not sold on the whole "thought police" angle. Lots of people have rape fantasies. Many people act out these kinds of things. I don't think the whole BDSM community, for instance, should be criminalized, because they perform activities that are legal when consensual, but which would be violent crimes if not consensual.

But I agree with you, Dave, that at some point, he must have known something was wrong. The article implies that the prosecution has evidence to that effect as well.
 
K

Kitty Sinatra

ah, well then. I'm definitely calling in sick for tonight's shift.
 
C

Chibibar

ok let me revise. I read the OP but not the article, the actual act WAS committed (I thought it was the thought of it. It looks like he actually did it) that changes the whole game play.

The marine should be charge to the fullest of the law + military, the other guy is the accomplise and should be charge also (extent... I'm not sure)

The reason I said "not prosecute" before cause I have some friends who are into some really weird stuff. There are safe words and such, but there are acquaintance (from what I'm told and such) there are people who are into chocking, heavy bondage and even extreme role play. We are not talking about cosplay sex here we are talking about cop robber with full sex act (simulate rape and such) but those are done in role play and consent.

This is why if it is a stranger, I would have suggest a legal document and stuff like that. I can't do that kind of stuff. The idea of hurting my wife to that level is not within my limits.
 
ScytheRexx

ScytheRexx

Dave said:
If MY WIFE wanted me to do this I don't think I could. If she talked me into it and she fought me like this woman must have fought him, I would have stopped immediately because I would have known something was seriously wrong. This guy not only wanted to do the act but showed he was willing to act it out even when he MUST have at some point realized that something was wrong.
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This is going to be the big factor. There is a point even a fantasy deviant is going to realize something is wrong when she is doing nothing but kicking and screaming at him. Many deviants of that nature probably prefer reluctance scenarios, the stuff you would find in hentai, and in real rape you don't get those outcomes of seeming acceptance. It would be much more violent. He really has no excuse for it. He needs to get something more then a slap on the wrist.
 
W

WolfOfOdin

Ok.

The marine can be charged one of two ways, under military law if he's still active duty/not discharged or under federal criminal statutes by state prosecutors. Firstly, he is guilty of Conspiracy to commit or enable a Criminal Act, secondly Rape in the Second Degree, third Fraud and fourth possibly willful corruption of another/criminal negligence.

The man who actually did the deed..well...there's no manslaughter for rape. There's Rape in the 1st Degree and Rape in the Second Degree and then attempted rape. Rape in the 2nd would be the most likely cause, but he could plead not guilty due to mental incompetence, which is a tricky defense in and of itself. If they go lenient on him, it's going to be Breaking and Entering + Sexual Assault/Lew and Lascivious conduct. Harsher will be B+E as well as either Rape in the First or Second degree.
 
Adam

Adam

Lesson learned:

If a stranger asks you to rape them, get them to sign a contract first that they're not going to call the cops afterwards. And even if you did sign a contract, you would still go to jail if they called the cops. So don't 'rape' strangers!

Because rape is illegal. There's no such thing as consensual rape. A rape fantasy is a bit of an oxymoron because it implies participation and consent. Rape has neither. What is considered a 'rape fantasy' is more 'pushing the line on rough sex'.

While it's a shame he's gonna go to jail for this, he only has himself to blame.
 
Espy

Espy

Adammon said:
While it's a shame he's gonna go to jail for this, he only has himself to blame.
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Pretty much my position as well. I like the "manslaughter" idea though, however, from reading another report it sounds like he was... BRUTAL. So really, I agree with Dave, at a certain point he had to have known something was wrong but he did not relent. So in the end I don't care if he goes down for the whole thing but I think the Marine should as well.
 
ElJuski

ElJuski

Staff member
They're called safety words. The ex boyfriend and his unwitting accomplice should be charged with rape.
 
M

makare

There was a case, in Britain I think, where this guy is hanging in a bar and meets like 2 or 3 other men. He invites them over to his house to have sex with his wife, saying that if she fights that's the way she likes it. So they do. In that case, which was years ago, the husband was actually there and still didn't get convicted of rape or attempted rape.

There was another case where a man did something like this but with personals in a magazine I think. He was charged with something but it wasn't rape.

I don't know how the marine guy could be charged with attempt to have forcible sex with someone because he didn't make that attempt. He set up the circumstances for it to happen. It's really unfair but I don't know what he can be charged with.
 
Adam

Adam

ElJuski said:
They're called safety words. The ex boyfriend and his unwitting accomplice should be charged with rape.
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What is the safety word is something "Blathering Blatherskite"? She'd never say it and if she did, he'd get his winky pinched off anyways when all the armor assembled.
 
phil

phil

The marine should get a full sentence and the guy should get some kind of punishment. I don't know what it would be though. I guess the best way to convey it would be that he should get, I think 60% of a rape sentence I guess. 50 for doing it, regardless of if it was an accident, and 10% for just being a dumbass.

I'm kind of wondering, like tin said, how did he not know that this was rape rape and not roleplaying rape? I mean, shouldn't he have noticed that she wasn't into this at all ?
 
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