Superman Reboot

[filmfanatic]

I'm honestly not a fan of Doomsday. Yeah, I was back when I started collecting comics because Doomsday WAS what got me collecting again (the Death of Superman). But like Venom, I just think he's too "90s" a character to work on the big screen. Besides, we had Superman/Doomsday, which was pretty good for what it was.

Ooh, would it be too loaded if we threw Metallo and Bizarro into the first movie? Bizarro as Lex's weapon and Metallo as Intergang's? And have the finale be a kryptonite poisoned Superman (after beating Metallo) try and fight Bizarro to save Lois? Hrm. That might be too much for one movie, on top of everything else.

Yeah, that's definitly sounding too much for the first film.

I'm not a big fan of Doomsday either. Honestly, I see the guy as a plot device more than anything. I'd use him pretty much how he is used, so I could move into more of a Bizarro plot. Specifically, having a bait and switch wherein it appears Superman is back, but later begins to degenerate into the Bizarro we know. Of course, that's just one possibility for a third film. While I'm devoting my time to writing the rough plot of that first Superman film idea this weekend, I'm still thinking of what route to go with a trilogy. The third film is where I'm a bit stuck. I can tell you, though, what villain I wouldn't use, despite how much he is one of my favorite Superman villains: Mr. Mxyzptlk.

 

[ThatNickGuy]

Well, instead of thinking like three films as a trilogy, what if it were thought out more like a longer series, like say 7, ala Harry Potter?

#1) Lex vs. Intergang/Metallo (Kryptonite poisoined Superman has to rescue Lois from Lex)
#2) Lex goes on a rampage against Supes, creating endless biological threats. He gets DNA samples from the fight in the last movie. Starts off with Bizarro, who the audience thinks is Superman but he's acting weird. Supes has been in Smallville, recovering. Movie grows more dangerous, with The Parasite.
#3) Brainiac (introduce Steel, since he's a tech nut)
#4) Mxyzptlk? I love the guy, too, honestly. Maybe make it a semi-comedy with a lot of the hokier villains (Toyman, Prankster). Imagine Superman versus an army of flying toys!
#5) Cadmus. Not the JLU Cadmus, but the original Cadmus, which was a big underground cloning facility. Maybe introduce Superboy here? And end it with Doomsday, who is also a clone of Superman, but gone very, very wrong?
#6) Zod. Because Zod effing rules. I remember when Zod was being considered for one of the movie productions, Jude Law's name was being thrown around, which I'd be down for. Maybe use a similar story that was done to introduce Zod properly by Geoff Johns a few years back? Army of Kryptonian criminals all escape from the Phantom Zone, etc.
#7) The previously mentioned Darkseid.

 

[@Li3n]

Doomsday as a clone is worse then his comics origin (what was the point of making him from Krypton?).

 

[twitchmoss]

i don't know about having darkseid as the main villain for the film works straight off the bat.

having the new gods appear near the end as part of a sequel hook? fuck YES. i'd love to see the fourth world on screen.

 

[Green_Lantern]

I just wanted to post this video, and din't felt like creating a new thread.

 

[ThatNickGuy]

Doomsday as a clone is worse then his comics origin (what was the point of making him from Krypton?).

It worked okay for JLU.

 

[Green_Lantern]

I generally dislike doomsday, I really don't know how could he possible be "fixed", I would rather watch a movie with Bizarro as a villain.

also, I forgot to mention, the idea of lex as a "heroic mankind defender" is good, but I don't think I would like to actually see in live action, mostly because, DC only makes 2 or 3 moves each decade and I would rather get a nice full dose of Kryptonian Paragon

that said, I actually think that story would work somehow better if it wasn't a story about superman (not saying that isn't good, it is), but because I think it would make a better deconstruction/reconstruction of the concept if it was with *new* characters, much like Josh and Imp (found here http://www.jinxville.com/joshnimp/comic.htm )

edit:

Just had a idea for a "Better" origin for Doomsday, making essencially not just a clone of Superman like in DCAU but a combined cloned of several of his enemies, most noticeable would be the Parasite, and Superman death would be cause Doomsday slowly and subtly leeched super's powers.

 

[sixpackshaker]

I am just happy we never got the Tim Burton Superman. Black costume with detachable S-shield... that was MAGICAL... and the source of his powers.

Didn't Nick Cage want to do a washed up version of Superman too?

 

[fade]

I just wanted to post this video, and din't felt like creating a new thread.

Too bad that girl is such a terrible actor. And it went out on a weak joke.

 

[Green_Lantern]

I just wanted to post this video, and din't felt like creating a new thread.

Too bad that girl is such a terrible actor. And it went out on a weak joke.[/QUOTE]

I know, but I sort of view as the character being... well a Idiot.

 

[Covar]

Step 1: Hire Mark Waid and Geoff Johns to write the screenplay.
Step 2: Hire Gary Frank, and John Byrnes for art direction
Step 3: ???
Step 4: Profit.

 

[Green_Lantern]

Step 1: Hire Mark Waid and Geoff Johns to write the screenplay.
Step 2: Hire Gary Frank, and John Byrnes for art direction
Step 3: ???
Step 4: Profit.

Step 3: Dress underwear outside your pants, so gnomes don't steal it?

 

[figmentPez]

Here's the thing, as far as villains go and their threat levels:

-Lex: City-wide threat; anything global is honestly above him. Potentially threat to Superman, but usually through other means (like Metallo).

Lex Luthor, who managed to become President of the United States in the comics can't be a global threat? Seriously? Oh well, I've never been a big fan of Lex as anything but an instigator of trouble, and I don't think we need another Superman movie with him as the villain.

-Brainiac: City-wide threat if going with the \"bottling cities\" but could easily be a great planet-wide threat. Potential threat to Superman, ESPECIALLY if you use Brainiac's origin from the Animated Series and have him be the Kryptonian council's AI. Goddamn, that was brilliant.

Planet-wide threat if it's a version of Brainiac where he destroys whole planets after analyzing them.


Personally, I say forget a Superman movie, and go with the Justice League versus Vandal Savage. No origin story, either. I don't want the Justice League forming to take down a surprised Vandal Savage. There have been how many blockbuster superhero movies in the last decade? After a half-dozen franchises, I think audiences can handle the concept of "there are heroes with amazing powers who fight bad guys" without having to spell it all out. I want Savage to have been planning the destruction of a well-established League for a long time. Let the take-down of each member of the League tell the audience what they need to know about who they are.


Though, if we are going with a Superman movie. My Top 5 Villains Who Shouldn't be in the Movie:
1. Conduit
2. Hank Henshaw / Cyborg Superman
3. Momentus
4. Solaris
5. Mammoth


I'm trying to think who I would want to see.
- Mongul is a great villain, but taking the action to War World for a reboot kind of removes the Superman as Earth's protector angle, which is pretty important.
- Darkseid is, possibly, too powerful. While I think that an origin story is unecessary for a reboot, I think it's still necessary to establish Superman's power level before having him trounced by a demi-god. That was a problem in season one of the Justice League animated series. They tried to establish how powerful the villains were by having them take out Superman, and ended up making Supes look weak, instead.

Maybe if Superman really feels on top of things before Darkseid starts an invasion in earnest... Hmm, that could work. Darkseid is, as ever, searching for the anti-life equation, and has really only sent a scouting party to Earth. Superman is taking some blows, but is still prevailing against some pretty titanic forces sent by Darkseid. Then Darkseid has reason to believe that what's he's looking for actually is on earth, and the flood of troops begins. Overwhelming odds make Superman question his tactics, and then Darkseid shows up in person to make Superman question himself. Then we get:



Or something really close, when Superman realizes he can cut loose. Instead of Darkseid's strength making Superman look weak, the challenge of Darkseid shows just how vast Superman's limits are.

 

[Espy]

Man. I feel for all those poor people who died when he hit Darkseid through those buildings. Some of them probably collapsed too. Supes musta killed upwards of 3 or 4 hundred people with that punch.

 

[phil]

Everyone knows Darksied only attacks earth on weekends and holidays, just to make the heroes go to work on THEIR ONE GOD DAMN DAY OFF THIS WHOLE WEEK. FUCK THAT GUY.


Also, even if it is a weekday, if you're dumb enough to both live in Metropolis and work at the top of a skyscraper, you just have it coming to you. I mean if it's not Darksied being punched through your building it's Superman himself, or maybe Metallo...and god help you if Bizzaro is doin' some hoodrat shit.

Also, I want to see 1:15-1:17 of that, where Darksied is going up and up and up with a dub of "Team rocket is blasting off agaaaaaaaiiiiinnnn"

 

[WolfOfOdin]

I still say Gog/Magog could make a great villain, possibly reworked to be set up as being empowered by Darkseid for a sequel.

Imagine the movie begins with Superman apprehending one of his throw-away rogues, Toyman or somesuch. He's being taken to court for murdering a great deal of people, but manages to get off on a insanity plea. As he's laughing and being escorted from the courthouse....BLAM! He falls, smoking meat to the ground. Above him stands Magog, his staff still smoking, his face blank. "The Justice of the Weak is over. No longer will evil go unpunished...they will burn in God's Fire."

 

[Hailey Knight]

I don't see a lot of these ideas as realistic theatrical films. As Bruce Tim direct to DVD animated movies, yes (even though some of the ground has been covered), but I can't see them doing a lot of these ideas for a multi-million dollar theatrical Superman film, simply because it gets into comic book elements general audiences aren't familiar with.

 

[Alucard]

cough cough. Matrix Revolutions fight. cough cough.

Seriously though if they made a trilogy I could see Darkseid as the main villain in the 3rd one not the first two.
Metallo would be an optimum villain choice. If they made Lex president though it would just be ripping off of Batman/Superman: Public Enemies.

 

[figmentPez]

I don't see a lot of these ideas as realistic theatrical films. As Bruce Tim direct to DVD animated movies, yes (even though some of the ground has been covered), but I can't see them doing a lot of these ideas for a multi-million dollar theatrical Superman film, simply because it gets into comic book elements general audiences aren't familiar with.

While I would agree that the New Gods are a comic book element that audiences won't accept, Darkseid by himself isn't too big a leap. He's an evil warlord seeking to rule the galaxy. It's pretty simple.

I also like WolfOfOdin's idea for Gog/Magog. It doesn't matter who the guy is in comic books (heck, I've read Kingdom Come and I don't know who he is other than name and appearance). All that matters is that he kills, Superman doesn't, and the world can't decide what sort of justice it wants.

I'm not sure what plots, specifically, you think are too comic book to make a feature film.

 

[Hailey Knight]

cough cough. Matrix Revolutions fight. cough cough.

Seriously though if they made a trilogy I could see Darkseid as the main villain in the 3rd one not the first two.
Metallo would be an optimum villain choice. If they made Lex president though it would just be ripping off of Batman/Superman: Public Enemies.

Okay, you have a point. People could probably accept things better if they were eased into it rather than pushed with it right at the start.

Figment: Stuff with Lobo, Apokolips, the JLU, a Superman movie not about Superman... It's not going to work for a major mainstream movie.

 

[WolfOfOdin]

It'd be good for this day and age too...topical.

Here's my idea, that after Gog/Magog offs the guy at the courthouse, he becomes a media darling. We have news shows saying "At last we have someone who will REALLY protect us from monsters like X!" Rallies with superman being called a coward and an idealist for not offing dangerous villains and instead turning into the police. More or less paint society as so paralyzed by fear of these threats that they're willing to give a madman the reigns if they think it'll protect them. Interpserse this with scenes of Gog's growing insanity and superman's dejection and heartbreak at what the world's willing to put up with for safety. Eventually Superman returns, triumphantly as Gog goes fully off the deep end, murdering people for even minor criminal infractions. After the fight, while Gog lays broken and smoldering, he hisses up at Supes "Life...is CHAOS....I am...Order...a heavy hand to guide these apes...and my God is a jealous one, O Titan of Krypton" His eyes burn red and his body burns to ash, as superman sees a flash in his head of a stone face with the same burning red eyes

 

[figmentPez]

Figment: Stuff with Lobo, Apokolips, the JLU, a Superman movie not about Superman... It's not going to work for a major mainstream movie.

I'll agree that Lobo would just be a little to out-there. I can't really imagine a plot that would connect the audience to the character. Same with a Superman movie not about Superman. The audience isn't going to connect with any other protagonist if Superman is the title character.

I'm not sure what you mean about Apokolips or the JLU. Having Superman go to Apokolips would be stupid, but just having it exist as the planet Darkseid comes from doesn't seem to be to far out there (other characters from Apokalips, though, like Granny Goodness, should never even be considered.) I'm not sure why you don't think the Justice League would work in a movie. Admittedly it would be possible to get too caught up in "Who are these individuals, why are they here, what are their motivations, etc." but that didn't stop Oceans 11 from barreling on with the plot. Why would audiences be able to accept a group of criminals with varied skills coming together for a purpose, with little or no character development for most, but be unable to accept a group of heroes?

 

[LordRavage]

I would pay good money just to see a movie where Supes is hooked on snorting krytopnite. It would give him some sick boost and decrease his powers. He becomes an addict and then other heros try to provide an intervention. Meanwhile villians are supplying supes with what he needs so that it will take its toll and try to make an overdose happen. The heros try to save him while the villians are trying to kill him. And then the big finish would be Supes going on some drugged up rampage.

Just think of the mayhem.

What?

Why are you all looking at me like that?

I like to see things outside the box.

 

[Green_Lantern]

I would pay good money just to see a movie where Supes is hooked on snorting krytopnite. It would give him some sick boost and decrease his powers. He becomes an addict and then other heros try to provide an intervention. Meanwhile villians are supplying supes with what he needs so that it will take its toll and try to make an overdose happen. The heros try to save him while the villians are trying to kill him. And then the big finish would be Supes going on some drugged up rampage.

Just think of the mayhem.

What?

Why are you all looking at me like that?

I like to see things outside the box.

heretic.

 

[@Li3n]

Doomsday as a clone is worse then his comics origin (what was the point of making him from Krypton?).

It worked okay for JLU.[/QUOTE]

I wouldn't say that it so much worked as JLU was s awesome that it didn't matter that much. But i preferred the original JL version where he was just some brutish alien looking for a fight... it kept it simple in keeping with Doomsday's

Or something really close, when Superman realizes he can cut loose. Instead of Darkseid's strength making Superman look weak, the challenge of Darkseid shows just how vast Superman's limits are.

This is what was always annoying with Supes... what, someone is putting up a real fight against him?! Oh, he's just been holding back and now he's easilydominating. It only ever works (as anything else but fanboi pandering) for the intermediate villains, it always just feels cheap for the Big Bad (unless the hero is being kicked around easily and then he only matches the villains power and they have a real fight).

- Mongul is a great villain, but taking the action to War World for a reboot kind of removes the Superman as Earth's protector angle, which is pretty important.

Obvious solution is bring Warworld to Earth instead...

And Make Mogul have more strenght the Supes like he did in his original appearances... forcing Supes to use his brains for once.

- Darkseid is, possibly, too powerful. While I think that an origin story is unecessary for a reboot, I think it's still necessary to establish Superman's power level before having him trounced by a demi-god. That was a problem in season one of the Justice League animated series. They tried to establish how powerful the villains were by having them take out Superman, and ended up making Supes look weak, instead.

IMO it could easily work if they have Supes start out being so unused to being hurt by actual physical forces that at the start he's mostly taken out by the shock, and then you show him slowly learning to take the punishement and at the end barely overcoming the Big Bad by force of will alone...

And Darkseid isn't a demi-god... he's a god.

 

[Green_Lantern]

not only a god, but a new god, unlike those old modes like zeus or thor

 

[figmentPez]

Or something really close, when Superman realizes he can cut loose. Instead of Darkseid's strength making Superman look weak, the challenge of Darkseid shows just how vast Superman's limits are.

This is what was always annoying with Supes... what, someone is putting up a real fight against him?! Oh, he's just been holding back and now he's easilydominating. It only ever works (as anything else but fanboi pandering) for the intermediate villains, it always just feels cheap for the Big Bad (unless the hero is being kicked around easily and then he only matches the villains power and they have a real fight).

IMO it could easily work if they have Supes start out being so unused to being hurt by actual physical forces that at the start he's mostly taken out by the shock, and then you show him slowly learning to take the punishement and at the end barely overcoming the Big Bad by force of will alone... [/quote]

You bring up some excellent points. I've never liked the whole "let me show you my true power" thing in general, because usually it's done in such a smug way (especially in a lot of anime), and Superman usually ends up looking dumb as a brick because of it. That was one thing that really bugged me about the death of Superman versus Doomsday. A raging brute of a monster managed to think more than Superman did during that fight. Actually, that fight in JLU against Darkseid kind of made superman look like a fool as well, since Darkseid pulled a gadget out of his pocket and brought Superman to his knees. Really, I'd like to see Superman's strengths shown to not merely be in his speed, strength and other powers, but in who Ma and Pa Kent raised him to be, as well. Winning against might equal or greater than his own, because he's brave, determined and maybe just a little bit smart.

In the end, if the battle is an easy win for Superman just because of his super-powers, it looses out on his connection to humanity. I think that Superman's best victories have been when he's won because of his convictions, or in spite of them. i.e. he's won by being the shining hero who leads others to victory, by sheer determination to do what's right or winning despite making the more difficult choice (not killing, saving innocents first, etc.).

- Mongul is a great villain, but taking the action to War World for a reboot kind of removes the Superman as Earth's protector angle, which is pretty important.

Obvious solution is bring Warworld to Earth instead...

And Make Mogul have more strenght the Supes like he did in his original appearances... forcing Supes to use his brains for once.

Now that is a good idea. Maybe for once we can get Superman to do some actual training, maybe do some super-powered martial arts sparring with an underground resistance movement of alien gladiators. In pretty much all the comics I've read Superman is written like he has no clue how to win except by overpowering his opponents. No finesse in his powers like the Flash, who has frequently fought other speedsters. It would be nice to see Superman written as an intelligent hero again.

 

[@Li3n]

You bring up some excellent points. I've never liked the whole "let me show you my true power" thing in general,

Worked great in Princess Bride... i had no idea what the film was called coz i saw it when i was very young, but i remembered that scene when they switch sword hands. Brilliant.

It can be done right, but man is it rare...

maybe do some super-powered martial arts sparring with an underground resistance movement of alien gladiators.

If it's a JLA movie i'd like to see Batman train him in a red sun room... heck, i'd like to see that in the comics or wherever.

 

[@Li3n]

Btw, while we're at it, there was this wuxia film about a guy that had a meteor weapon (it was basically a staff with 2 maces on each side) that made him invincible... what i liked about it is that he only used it twice, and not on guys that where beating him, but on guy he was drawing with... another one i had and still have no idea what it was called. Anyone have any ideas?

 

[WolfOfOdin]

If you want to bring supes down a notch, the perfect villain may be a more feral, insane version of The Parasite

 

[filmfanatic]

If you want to bring supes down a notch, the perfect villain may be a more feral, insane version of The Parasite

The Parasite coud make for some good material as a villain for a Superman movie, but I wonder how you'd choose to carry out his origin.

#4) Mxyzptlk? I love the guy, too, honestly. Maybe make it a semi-comedy with a lot of the hokier villains (Toyman, Prankster). Imagine Superman versus an army of flying toys!

I could potentially see that. Maybe start the film off setting it up to seem like Toyman (who I'd model personality-wise after his STAS version) is the main villain, then have ome weird things start happening in Meropolis followed by Mxzptlk introducing himself.

 

[WolfOfOdin]

For this day and age? The Parasite was a creation of CADMUS, a government BLACK OPs organization for combating meta humans world-wide. He was horrifically mutated via advanced technology, becoming a deformed, insane leech-like monster that absorbs the DNA of those he attacks, gaining their shape and abilities via muscle memory.

Or keeping with that, he could be described as a living bio-weapon made of stem-cells (Hollywood science!) that spontaneously absorbs and mimics the DNA of anything it consumes. It could go hay-wire when he's accidently introduced to some of Supe's genetic material via CADMUS, causing his body to go haywire and make him obsessed with being 'perfect'

 

[Alucard]

Orrrrrrrrrrr Dracula vs. Superman dun dun dunnnnnnnn

 

[Steve]

I wonder if a good Superman movie could ever be made. I think there's a general disconnect with the audience as he really has no inner struggles. Unlike Bruce Wayne or Peter Parker, Superman has no inner turmoil. So he becomes a one dimensional character. If the audience can't connect on an emotional level all that's left is a slugfest between him and a villian. Does anyone really care about Clark Kent? Why would he ever need to be Clark anyway? Just be Superman 24/7. Unfortunately there's no way around this without completely rewriting his origin. In the article I posted someone mentioned setting the movie back in the 30's. Scale down his power where he is a little more vunerable. I would go with an origin story (I know everyone knows Supes origin) because the story could be Clark, a naive farmboy, entering a big city and trying to adjust and being a bit overwhelmed by it all. The struggle could be keeping his powers secret versus using them. His parents know his history and they could have pounded in "don't let anyone know what you can do. You'll be considered a freak and the government will take you away." I wouldn't have Lois Lane in the first movie. Why? Because I'd set the sequel in our time. The back story would be Superman doesn't age (or very slowly) and he struggles with watching those around him pass away and because of the pain he's caused by the loss he keeps a wall up and doesn't want to get close to anyone. Enter Lois.

 

[Hailey Knight]

Apparently you never saw Superman: The Movie starring Christopher Reeves.