This is why MMO's are ruining PC gaming...

[@Li3n]

http://www.cracked.com/article_18461_5-creepy-ways-video-games-are-trying-to-get-you-addicted.html

That's right, you're all rats in a maze...




But now seriously, how does it not get boring fast?!

 

[Raemon777]

I generally agree with this.

I haven't played WoW in a year or so - I had too much stuff to do, didn't have time, and I had just hit level 80 which gave a brief sense of "final accomplishment" before moving on to the endgame grind. What really frustrates me is that I HAVE invested enough in the world that I would like to see the story through to the end. I would like to kill the Lich King, but I don't have time to devote to acquiring all the gear and skill I'd need to be able to do it. To some extent I think that's okay - I thinking beating a game should be an accomplishment and if it was made easy enough that I could log on and do it right now it wouldn't really be worth it. Still, frustrating.

In other news, it WOULD be really cool if every 1,000 customers I served at the grocery store, a giant beam of light shot up from my crotch.

 

[fade]

Yep, that pretty much sums up my feelings about WoW. I had to try again last week just to be sure, but that's it.

 

[bhamv3]

I now feel awfully lucky that I never got into MMOs...

 

[Silver Jelly]

I love that, if a game is difficult, it makes me get bored and go do other stuff... But, if it's too easy, it makes me get bored and go do other stuff. I'm immune, baby!

 

[Espy]

That's why the highest court in South Korea ruled that virtual goods are to be legally treated the same as real goods. And virtual goods are now a $5 billion industry worldwide.

There's nothing crazy about it. After all, people pay thousands of dollars for diamonds, even though diamonds do nothing but look pretty. A video game suit of armor looks pretty and protects you from video game orcs.

lol. Nice.

 

[ScytheRexx]

Not sure how this is "ruining PC gaming", seems more like it's ruining lives of the weak willed. It's actually one of the only genres keeping PC gaming alive.

 

[MindDetective]

Psychologists have knowledge and knowledge is power. Fear the tools they develop falling into the wrong hands.

 

[Chazwozel]

Not sure how this is "ruining PC gaming", seems more like it's ruining lives of the weak willed. It's actually one of the only genres keeping PC gaming alive.

Buddy, I like you and all, but you're being totally biased if you don't think WoW operates on the basis of 'carrot on a stick' for the majority of its player base.

 

[ScytheRexx]

You jump to conclusions. I never said anything about it not using those tactics or even trying to deny them, actually I agree with the article that weak willed people are going to use it as a form of escapism because they love the carrot, they want that carrot and that flashy light. I even use it as a sort of escapism, I just know it rather then let it control me, because I play for different reasons then to feel "accomplished".

I was pointing out the idea that "MMO's are ruining PC gaming" to be a bit misleading. PC gaming in general has, and continues, to go down the shitter. MMOs and a few good companies are the only thing keeping it a very viable industry. It should have said "This is why MMO's can ruin your life..."

 

[Chazwozel]

You jump to conclusions. I never said anything about it not using those tactics or even trying to deny them, actually I agree with the article that weak willed people are going to use it as a form of escapism because they love the carrot, they want that carrot and that flashy light. I even use it as a sort of escapism, I just know it rather then let it control me, because I play for different reasons then to feel "accomplished".

I was pointing out the idea that "MMO's are ruining PC gaming" to be a bit misleading. PC gaming in general has, and continues, to go down the shitter. MMOs and a few good companies are the only thing keeping it a very viable industry. It should have said "This is why MMO's can ruin your life..."

The thread title is misleading, since the article doesn't specifically focus on MMO's. I wouldn't say MMO addiction is only for the weak willed though. I mean hypothetically speaking, would it be hard for you, right at this very moment to delete all your WoW characters? Be honest now.

 

[fade]

I don't consider myself weak-willed, but I did realize the same thing this article's author did--that I was only playing to get that next "thing" whatever it was. The author never says that's a bad thing to do. On the contrary, the author's point is that games like WoW leverage that normal reaction to the extreme, dedicating tons of research to doing so. I'm not sure I know of any other reason to play games other than some accomplishment or reward. I don't think that makes players weak-willed. But a lot of wow players have had that "Holy crap, what am i doing this for?" reaction. I suspect you might say the social aspect of WoW is the draw, but I must say, unless you're at 80, I've found it to be a solo game. The only MM aspect before endgame is general chat.

 

[@Li3n]

Because cocaine addict stop smoking pot, that's why...

I mean hypothetically speaking, would it be hard for you, right at this very moment to delete all your WoW characters? Be honest now.

Fucking impossible... my 10 day trial character is long gone...

 

[ScytheRexx]

Asking if I would delete my characters is the same as asking if I would throw out all my furniture, my television, burn my hammock in the backyard and pop my soccer ball with a large nail this very instant. Can I do it? Yes. Do I want to do it or is it really going to make my life better? Not really. It is not weak willed to have things you enjoy, it is weak willed to allow those things to control your life. I have nothing but respect for those that quit MMOs, or those that never start them, because they show that they are not getting stuck in a treadmill they don't enjoy. Enjoyment is the key. Play a game to enjoy, don't play it to accomplish, this is not the Super Bowl, this is flag football, and even THAT is a stretch.

If deleting my characters would add anything to my life, I would delete them in a heartbeat, but I am not one that allows it to "take" from my life in the first place. I know my little pixel people are just that, pixels, and someday they will be gone when the WoW servers go "So long and thanks for all the bytes."

Truth be told though, I don't have a very addictive personality. I have never smoked (anything, cigs, pot, whatever you can smoke I have never touched), I dislike alcohol and just drink soda or water when I go out with friends, and when I go to Vegas for NAB every year, my gambling totals $1 in a slot machine at the airport, and that's just so I can say I gambled when I get home. I know that is hard for people to see when I like to talk about WoW based information a lot of the time, but hey, one talks about what he knows, and I know a lot about WarCraft.

 

[@Li3n]

Did the "Don't feed the Chaz!" sign fall off again?

 

[Chazwozel]

Did the "Don't feed the Chaz!" sign fall off again?

You're the only one trying to feed a flame fest here, bud.

---------- Post added at 01:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:31 PM ----------

Asking if I would delete my characters is the same as asking if I would throw out all my furniture, my television, burn my hammock in the backyard and pop my soccer ball with a large nail this very instant. Can I do it? Yes. Do I want to do it or is it really going to make my life better? Not really. It is not weak willed to have things you enjoy, it is weak willed to allow those things to control your life. I have nothing but respect for those that quit MMOs, or those that never start them, because they show that they are not getting stuck in a treadmill they don't enjoy. Enjoyment is the key. Play a game to enjoy, don't play it to accomplish, this is not the Super Bowl, this is flag football, and even THAT is a stretch.

If deleting my characters would add anything to my life, I would delete them in a heartbeat, but I am not one that allows it to "take" from my life in the first place. I know my little pixel people are just that, pixels, and someday they will be gone when the WoW servers go "So long and thanks for all the bytes."

Truth be told though, I don't have a very addictive personality. I have never smoked (anything, cigs, pot, whatever you can smoke I have never touched), I dislike alcohol and just drink soda or water when I go out with friends, and when I go to Vegas for NAB every year, my gambling totals $1 in a slot machine at the airport, and that's just so I can say I gambled when I get home. I know that is hard for people to see when I like to talk about WoW based information a lot of the time, but hey, one talks about what he knows, and I know a lot about WarCraft.

I just asked a hypothetical question, no need to get defensive.

 

[@Li3n]

Did the "Don't feed the Chaz!" sign fall off again?

You're the only one trying to feed a flame fest here, bud.[/QUOTE]

I'm not your bud, fella'.


And who said anything about a flame fest... you're just being yourself.

 

[Chazwozel]

Did the "Don't feed the Chaz!" sign fall off again?

You're the only one trying to feed a flame fest here, bud.[/QUOTE]

I'm not your bud, fella'.


And who said anything about a flame fest... you're just being yourself.[/QUOTE]

My first ignore ever. You should be proud.

 

[ScytheRexx]

I just asked a hypothetical question, no need to get defensive.

Ah it was more just explaining myself in this instance. "Would you delete them this instant" is a loaded question, I say "Yes" and someone may think I am in denial, I say "No" and someone will just say I just admitted I am addicted. Going back to the other post, and to give a little idea of my thought process.

Friend "Dude, your furniture is tacky as hell and you have been buying it for five years. I can't believe you put up with it."
Me "Dude, it's just furniture, and I like the feel of the cushions. It's not a big deal"
Friend "I think you like this furniture to much. Would you throw out all your furniture this instant? Be honest"
Me "Why would I throw out my furniture when I like it?"

It's one of those "prove me wrong" questions that has no right answer in the mind of the questioner. I just wanted to make that clear.

 

[Necronic]

The only real question of importance (and it is also subjective) is whether the carrot presented in the game is valued at a higher level than carrots in the real world that have general societal value. Like, letting your child wtrve to death so you can raid (extreme example) or becoming a socially incompetent fucktard who has no skills of value outside of the game who lives with their parents. I ultimately believe that thisis dependan on the individual more than the game, but.....empirically (and bbased on my concepts of societal value) I have seen a higher occurance of this in WoW than other games (not all though)

 

[ScytheRexx]

I have seen a higher occurance of this in WoW than other games (not all though)

I think this is mostly due to the fact that WoW is the first "mainstream" MMO. I have seen people fall into the same pits listed in the article since I played Ultima and EverQuest, but the genre as a whole was so small that it never got the attention like this article (Dare I say, most MMO players back then were stereotyped as basement dwelling outcasts anyways). WoW was the first western breakout with the mainstream, and thus is gathering more of the people that probably would have not considered an MMO as a form of unhealthy escapism. That is one of the problems with being popular.

 

[Baerdog]

I think that's a very valid point. WoW gets a lot of attention by virtue of the fact that it's got such a huge amount of people playing it.

 

[@Li3n]

Guy, the cracked article has a link to a guy's story about being addicted to Everquest long before WoW... and by addicted i mean he chose a level up over sex...

Did the "Don't feed the Chaz!" sign fall off again?

You're the only one trying to feed a flame fest here, bud.[/QUOTE]

I'm not your bud, fella'.


And who said anything about a flame fest... you're just being yourself.[/QUOTE]

My first ignore ever. You should be proud.[/QUOTE]

Finally... maybe now we can have fun threads that won't get locked down...

 

[ThatNickGuy]

Yeah, althought it focused on MMO's, the idea behind a video game is to give a system of "fake" rewards. Beating a game is accomplishment, especially if you struggled with those last few levels or that final boss. Hell, I remember the first time I beat Final Fantasy I or II (well, IV, but it was II to me at the time): I heard that lightning crash that I'd beaten the boss, jumped off the couch and started celebrating.

But it's really all about that false reward or that false sense of accomplishment. Most often, it's becoming more powerful with a power-up or maybe it's continuing on the story (or both), or maybe it's hearing that "ding!" and seeing an Achievement trophy pop up in the top right hand corner. Hell, when I was playing Arkham Asylum and got the "Party Pooper" trophy? I had to pause the game, I was laughing so hard.

Personally, I'm more on the side of people like Yahtzee, who see video games as potential to tell a great story. It's like another medium, just like movies, books, television shows, etc. But there's so many (if not most) games are so derivative, terribly written, terribly acted, etc, that it's hard to see that games could be good on that level. I think it's why I'm not a fan of mindless shooters. I like to have a story that pulls me in and motivates me to continue playing. My best example for this is the Final Fantasy games. God, there were so many sleepless nights just building my team up so I could be powerful enough to lay siege to a major dungeon or castle. But more recently, Infamous had a lot of interesting story-related missions that pulled me in. Although it was pretty cliche, I was pulled into Prototype, as well. Heavy Rain is definitely the best example I think of, currently, that puts the story first.

Hm. Lost my original argument here, somewhere. I guess my point is that, speaking as someone who has an addictive personality when it comes to video games, I can definitely agree with a lot of this article. It'd be much healthier for me to, say, go for a run, do yoga, do schoolwork or even do some writing of my own.

But then, I'd never find out how Ratchet rescues Clank.

 

[fade]

Y
But then, I'd never find out how Ratchet rescues Clank.

Wikipedia.

 

[Necronic]

FAir enough scythe. (on the volume comment, wholeheartedly disagree with you on stories. Books are 1000 times better.)

Another thought I had about the carrot has to do with it's complexity. Think of a simple pleasure, like drugs, or pizza, or laughing at Monty python, vs complex easures like finishing college, raising a child, or getting a program to compile. Both simple and complex carrots have their value, bu people that subsist only on simple pleasures are barely human in my eyes.

 

[sixpackshaker]

People that are into escapism is going to do anything to get their minds off their problems/life. The person that plays WoW 4 hours a night is not different than the person that; reads trashy novels, plays wii/ps3/xbox, that watches TV, talks on HAM radio, listens to Short Wave/FM/AM talk radio/top40...for 4 hours a night. Wasting time is wasting time, just because one is new does not make it worse than all the others that went before.

 

[Chibibar]

getting the "next carrot" is not a new study. This has been use in real life for a long long long long long time. Boss use this incentive to get people to work harder in promise of better position later etc etc.

Video game is EASIER to dangle that carrot since you just have to code it. It is like Sims in REAL life. My wife's carrot is that next new shiny DVD/Blu-Ray (she watch them all multiple time) and the next new TV. What does it take to get the next one? get a good paying job.

There are people who are weak willed that will fall into traps. Gambling is a good one. the carrot? wining a TON of money.

 

[ScytheRexx]

The thing is that article is not really talking about MMOs being more of a form of unhealthy escapism, but pointing out that developers openly look into ways to hook people to play certain games for longer. In the case of most online services, this means more money in the long run for the company.

In a way, it is reminicint of the cigerette companies. Yes, they put warning on the label and talk about all the unhealthy qualities, but in the end they still are putting stuff in the cigerettes to get you to smoke more, because they rely on you constantly buying them.

I think in a way that is a fair point, but the arguement does not go without it's flaws. While I know game developers want our money because that kind of keeps them making games, I do think they make the experience mostly to be enjoyable rather then addictive. I don't think WoW is the love child of a psychologist and Scrooge McDuck, but something made by gamers to experience things they, themselves, would enjoy. Yes, those often involve a carrot-on-a-stick type of experience, but that is part of the charm of the MMO, you know years down the line you will never "beat" it, you will never have the princess at the end of the castle that leads to the ending screen.

I don't think the carrot-on-a-stick type of design itself is bad, but that it can lead to people forgetting that the virtual carrot is not the shining star of ones life. I am on the fence over whether such should even be Blizzard's problem. I don't think of them as a cigarette company, but I don't think of them as a charity either.

 

[MindDetective]

It occurs to me that it's not just carrot and stick psychology, at least not always. There is also video games as art and as story. I'm playing through Mass Effect 2 (a second time) because the story is compelling enough for me to want to follow along.

 

[fade]

Yeah, but that's consumed rather rapidly in WoW. Especially after the first couple of characters. And the story development is often punctuated by side quests which have cover stories that barely mask the "collect x of y by killing z" nature of the quest. After a point, players just click "accept" and read the goals. In the latest patch, you have to do even less because the map now shows you exactly where to go. The art can be good. That's actually what brought me back the first time. I remembered the nice landscapes, and the prettiness of riding up to a new town. But when it's not new, it's not new.

 

[Chibibar]

Yeah, but that's consumed rather rapidly in WoW. Especially after the first couple of characters. And the story development is often punctuated by side quests which have cover stories that barely mask the "collect x of y by killing z" nature of the quest. After a point, players just click "accept" and read the goals. In the latest patch, you have to do even less because the map now shows you exactly where to go. The art can be good. That's actually what brought me back the first time. I remembered the nice landscapes, and the prettiness of riding up to a new town. But when it's not new, it's not new.

Yea and there are people who love those things and will probably come back for Cataclysm because a lot of things will be change like landscape, stories, and events.

 

[@Li3n]

.


More proof: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/27581/Study_US_Gamers_Spent_38_Billion_On_MMOs_in_2009.php

I wonder how much money was spent for consoles, and how much of that MMO cash would have instead gone into buying other PC games...

In a way, it is reminicint of the cigerette companies. Yes, they put warning on the label and talk about all the unhealthy qualities, but in the end they still are putting stuff in the cigerettes to get you to smoke more, because they rely on you constantly buying them.

But it's not like they can take out the nicotine without no longer making cigarettes...

 

[Chibibar]

The thing is that video games are "new" in the last 20-30 years to the main stream public. It is a virtual thing that can be created by anyone with skills and money. BUT the fact that humans have some underlying need "to get the next carrot" for a long time. I mean look at the sports franchise. How many foam hands are sold? baseball cards? comic books (well back in the old days) My friend's husband LOVES basketball. I mean LOVES basketball. His DVR contains a lot of the older games and many recording of all kinds of games that are play across the nation. (College and pro) that is a lot of game to watch. Is it bad? only if you let it take over your life.

The main different between sports and video games, is that sports are limited since it involve real athletes, but video games are all virtual. You can get that "gratification" if you solve the right puzzles, beat that next boss, get that next shiny new weapon.

This just makes the addiction to some people EASIER when it can be obtain on the tip of your hand.

I still don't think it is the company's fault. Any corporation form for profit are out to make...... well profit. There are many of us on this board play video games, but how many of us do let the video games to take over your lives?

 

[@Li3n]

If i see a guy with a problem and then find better way to take advantage of the problem i'm hardly blameless...


But the original idea was that MMO's are a rat trap taking people away from other PC games... the article was just there to make a point. Someone tell me how you don't find it mind numbingly boring already...