Richard Dawkins wants to have the Pope arrested

[Calleja]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article7094310.ece

Oh man, I know it's never gonna happen but this is gonna be so fun to watch unravel. People are gonna be piiiiiiiiiiiiiissed.

 

[Dave]

He should be. But so should the priests responsible for the abuse.

My question has to do with the statute of limitations in the cases presented. If past he should not be remanded into custody.

---------- Post added at 12:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:29 PM ----------

By the way, I want to say that I have serious issues with Dawkins and his methodology. His wanting to convert Islam to evolutionists is shortsighted and reeks of the same kinds of hypocritical dogmatic conversions that he derides religious organizations of employing.

I don't believe in religion but damn it, you are free to if you want and there's nothing I could or should say to stop you!

 

[General Specific]

He's a head of state, though, and the Vatican City is not about to arrest the Pope.

 

[Calleja]

The article touches on that... he's not a recognized head of state by the UN, and the Vatican doesn't have "official" country status.. so he should technically have no diplomatic immunity.

 

[Covar]

The article touches on that... he's not a recognized head of state by the UN, and the Vatican doesn't have "official" country status.. so he should technically have no diplomatic immunity.

Good Luck getting Rome to expedite or arrest him.

 

[Matt²]

Mini-nuke it from orbit. It's the only way to be certain.

 

[Chazwozel]

Richard Dawkins can wish in one hand and shit in the other and observe which one gets filled first.

 

[Necronic]

Richard Dawkins is doing a fantastic job of invalidating his legitimate arguments by doing sensationlist/ridiculous stuff like this. If he keeps it up he's just going to be written off as a nutjob by everyone, including his supporters.

 

[Rob King]

Richard Dawkins should stay in evolutionary biology. This is not a call for justice. This is simply another crusade in his war against theistic belief.

He is a brilliant geneticist, and I can respect him as long as he's talking about evolution. Outside of that field, he is a bigot, and his bigotry is just as destructive as that he accuses the Church of.

 

[Calleja]

Richard Dawkins.


lmao, everyone is starting their post with "Richard Dawkins...", it made me giggle for some reason. Cough, nevermind, carry on.

 

[Chazwozel]

Richard Dawkins should stay in evolutionary biology. This is not a call for justice. This is simply another crusade in his war against theistic belief.

He is a brilliant geneticist, and I can respect him as long as he's talking about evolution. Outside of that field, he is a bigot, and his bigotry is just as destructive as that he accuses the Church of.

ugh.... no he's not a brilliant anything. The guy's lab hasn't produced squat in over 10 years or some shit. The guy is a dope.

 

[SpecialKO]

Richard Dawkins should stay in evolutionary biology. This is not a call for justice. This is simply another crusade in his war against theistic belief.

He is a brilliant geneticist, and I can respect him as long as he's talking about evolution. Outside of that field, he is a bigot, and his bigotry is just as destructive as that he accuses the Church of.

Pretty much this. I don't see how, practically, this could even be brought about; it just sounds like a play for attention.

Also, as awful as that abuse was, covering it up doesn't really seem to fit in with the accepted definition, and historical application of, Crimes Against Humanity, at least in so far as what's been established as having happened.

Maybe the priest in question. But it seems a bit of a stretch for Benedict.

 

[LordRavage]

Mini-nuke it from orbit. It's the only way to be certain.

All they need is some anti-matter the size of a quarter....

 

[Rob King]

Mini-nuke it from orbit. It's the only way to be certain.

All they need is some anti-matter the size of a quarter....[/QUOTE]

I'll call Ewan McGregor.

Richard Dawkins should stay in evolutionary biology. This is not a call for justice. This is simply another crusade in his war against theistic belief.

He is a brilliant geneticist, and I can respect him as long as he's talking about evolution. Outside of that field, he is a bigot, and his bigotry is just as destructive as that he accuses the Church of.

ugh.... no he's not a brilliant anything. The guy's lab hasn't produced squat in over 10 years or some shit. The guy is a dope.[/QUOTE]

Well, admittedly I'm not up on genetics. All I know is that Dawkins is one of these rockstar-scientists that everyone knows, and that there are those who have called him brilliant. I just sort of take them at their word since (as has been previously mentioned) I'm not up on the science and anything cutting edge might as well be written in Klingon to me.

 

[Iaculus]

Mini-nuke it from orbit. It's the only way to be certain.

All they need is some anti-matter the size of a quarter....[/QUOTE]

I'll call Ewan McGregor.

Richard Dawkins should stay in evolutionary biology. This is not a call for justice. This is simply another crusade in his war against theistic belief.

He is a brilliant geneticist, and I can respect him as long as he's talking about evolution. Outside of that field, he is a bigot, and his bigotry is just as destructive as that he accuses the Church of.

ugh.... no he's not a brilliant anything. The guy's lab hasn't produced squat in over 10 years or some shit. The guy is a dope.[/QUOTE]

Well, admittedly I'm not up on genetics. All I know is that Dawkins is one of these rockstar-scientists that everyone knows, and that there are those who have called him brilliant. I just sort of take them at their word since (as has been previously mentioned) I'm not up on the science and anything cutting edge might as well be written in Klingon to me.[/QUOTE]

To be fair, with several of the scientists I've encountered, it probably is.

 

[Chad Sexington]

Richard Dawkins should stay in evolutionary biology. This is not a call for justice. This is simply another crusade in his war against theistic belief.

He is a brilliant geneticist, and I can respect him as long as he's talking about evolution. Outside of that field, he is a bigot, and his bigotry is just as destructive as that he accuses the Church of.

ugh.... no he's not a brilliant anything. The guy's lab hasn't produced squat in over 10 years or some shit. The guy is a dope.[/QUOTE]

Thank you.

I'm an atheist, and like all decent people, Catholic or otherwise, I find the child rape in the Church to be foul and evil, but for fuck's sake, this stinks of publicity stunt. Stupid, really. This isn't going to go anywhere. People should be pursuing the more easily realized goal of punishing the priests who perpetrated these crimes. It does look like the Pope knew more than previously thought about this situation, but he's not a realistic target for justice anyways. Punish the criminals, call for reform in the Church. For all his shouts about loving "reason" Dawkins sure seems to be making an irrational demand.

 

[Calleja]

If you guys read Dawkins, he tries to explain these type of "stunts" by saying he's trying to raise awareness on the evils of religion. His angle is that religion is BAD for humanity and should be removed altogether. It's the standard "people pay attention to what I do, so I'll try to make what I do mean something". He knows it's sensationalistic bullshit, but he does it to get people's attention and hopefully make enough of an impact to "make a difference".

Sort of the same thing Bono says he does.

They're both douchey if you ask me (and I still love Dawkins' books and have a poster of U2 over my bed to this day), but there you go.

 

[Kitty Sinatra]

Good Luck getting Rome to expedite or arrest him.

Britain would arrest the pope while he was in Britain.

My question has to do with the statute of limitations in the cases presented. If past he should not be remanded into custody.

I'm pretty sure a judge approving an arrest warrant would be paying attention to such obvious considerations.



I don't see this happening . . . unless maybe Elizabeth needs a divorce.

 

[figmentPez]

Richard Dawkins.


lmao, everyone is starting their post with "Richard Dawkins...", it made me giggle for some reason. Cough, nevermind, carry on.

.

 

[Chazwozel]

Just for fun, I looked at a list of Dawkins' academic publications. He hasn't published a real science paper since the late 80's, early 90's

Krebs, J.R.; Dawkins, R. (1984). "Animal signals: mind-reading and manipulation". in Krebs, J. R. and Davies, N.B.. Behavioural Ecology: An Evolutionary Approach. Oxford: Blackwell Scientific Publications. pp. 380–402.

Dawkins, R. (1990). "Parasites, desiderata lists and the paradox of the organism". Parasitology 100 Suppl: S63–73.

His last paper was in 2004, a review (scientific reviews are not primary literature).

Dawkins, R. (June 2004). "Extended phenotype - But not too extended. A reply to Laland, Turner and Jjablonka". Biology & Physiology 19 (3): 377–396.

2004 is still a long ass time between then and now for any sort of publication. i.e. He loves to talk the talk, but he doesn't walk the walk. If anything he gives scientists (especially biologists) a bad rap.

 

[Calleja]

That's a bit unfair, he himself has said that he shifted his focus more towards writing than investigating, that doesn't mean he's a bad scientist.

 

[General Specific]

I've only heard of Dawkins because of his out spoken atheism. If he was a brilliant scientist, I assume I would have heard of him through awards he had received.

I actually didn't even know he was a biologist until it was mentioned here.

 

[Chazwozel]

That's a bit unfair, he himself has said that he shifted his focus more towards writing than investigating, that doesn't mean he's a bad scientist.

haha, that means he's no longer a scientist. Thing I don't like about him is that the he and the media make him out to be the end all, know all authority on biology, as if he were the biologist version of Albert Einstein. He's not.

 

[Kitty Sinatra]

If he was a brilliant scientist, I assume I would have heard of him through awards he had received.

You actually keep up on scientists that closely?

. . . are any of them hot? I like brainy chicks.

 

[Dubyamn]

That's a bit unfair, he himself has said that he shifted his focus more towards writing than investigating, that doesn't mean he's a bad scientist.

Yes yes it does. If he had retired to start writing his Atheism books then it wouldn't but when he doesn't retire and still has a lab taking up resources without producing it makes him a terrible scientist.

 

[Steven Soderburgin]

The God Delusion is actually a pretty good, well-thought out book and Dawkins is a really smart guy who just doesn't give a fuck and is trolling everyone.

 

[Chazwozel]

The God Delusion is actually a pretty good, well-thought out book and Dawkins is a really smart guy who just doesn't give a fuck and is trolling everyone.

Well that's one thing he and I have in common, I suppose.

 

[General Specific]

If he was a brilliant scientist, I assume I would have heard of him through awards he had received.

You actually keep up on scientists that closely?

. . . are any of them hot? I like brainy chicks.[/QUOTE]

Well, I meant like the big awards, Nobel prize and such.

I was going to find some hot, nerdily dressed women, but those searches turned up some very questionable images, even with strict safe search on.

 

[phil]

I know that this would never really happen, and that it probably wouldn't even accomplish anything, but fuck it. I'd pay a dollar to see this.

 

[figmentPez]

I was going to find some hot, nerdily dressed women, but those searches turned up some very questionable images, even with strict safe search on.

This work?

 

[Calleja]

The God Delusion was a great read, really was.

 

[Papillon]

The article touches on that... he's not a recognized head of state by the UN, and the Vatican doesn't have \"official\" country status.. so he should technically have no diplomatic immunity.

However the Holy See does have permanent observer status, which was recently extended. I believe they now have most of the abilities of a member state. Until 2002 Switzerland was also a permanent observer, not a member of the UN, but I don't think anyone would argue that Switzerland wasn't a real country before then. The Holy See also maintains diplomatic relations with countries, and accredits ambassadors. There's a UK ambassador to the Holy See.

 

[Rob King]

Sovereignty is a really tricky issue on the best of days, though. The only thing that might constitute 'official' country status is recognition by 100% of the world's nation-states, in which case there are other countries that won't get that privilege. Some of the smaller examples are Somaliland and Kosovo, but they also include nations like Israel, Taiwan and China.

 

[Zarvox]

I'm aware as I write this that I'm probably going to get flamed, but knowing Halforums, there's likely to be some well-thought out responses, so I want to see what folks have to say.

I really don't understand all this hubbub about molestation in the church Yes, it's evil. Yes, those who practice it need to be prosecuted. But why do folks (not so much the folks in this thread, admittedly) focus so much on the institution of the Roman Catholic Church as the evil? Yes, the Church hides these things. Yes, the Church contains pedophiles.

But is the Church any worse than any other organization that deals with young people?

There are pedophiles in the American public schools. For the most part, the schools try to hide them – shuffle them off to other schools so it's someone else's problem, and doesn't bring bad press. All institutions that work with young people will have this problem. Like rape, murder, and genocide, pedophilia happens. It's horrible and it's reprehensible, but it's part of being human that we do these things, and you can't get rid of it, only minimize it. And I'm not convinced that the Roman Catholic Church is any worse than other institutions of similar size and contact with youth.

 

[tegid]

The problem is not only that priests work with kids, but that the church is supposed to be a model of morality and all that.