Is this a universal problem for women?
- Thread starter David
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Okay, I'll admit I suffer from "Nice Guy Syndrome." Insecurities, shyness, doormat, etc. And yes, there are some creepy asshats masquerading as nice guys. But come on, every nice guy has an ulterior motive? Really? It couldn't possibly be that there may be some some actual nice people in the world? That there are some guys who ACTUALLY want more to a relationship than just the physical gratification aspect of it? And that anyone who says differently is just hiding something? Yes, this whole "acting like a nice guy because it's an excellent ploy for emotionally trapping women to me" is working just great for me so far. Sorry, but this has touched a nerve with me. I'm tired of people making excuses about why they act like assholes and then try to turn it around on nice people. It's harder to be a nice person. There's no reward for doing the right thing. In fact, usually you are punished more for taking the high road. But somebody in the world has to be "the nice guy," because hardly anyone else is stepping up to the plate. I'll be trampled on, I'll be shot down, I'll probably be a lonely sad sack of shit the rest of my life because of it. But I stuck to what I know is right. And if I'm an arrogant prick for thinking that way, then fine. I'm an arrogant, self-rightous prick. /rant
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makare
I get annoyed at my job because I have to be nice to people and guys do often confuse that for something more. Im not sure why. So they just hang around and chat and blah blah blah. I just want them to leave but if I stop laughing at their stupid jokes or tell them to leave then Im being bitchy. It's pretty unfair.
Pretty much this. My wife had to be so obvious, she practically told me "I'm flirting with you."[/QUOTE]
Yep, this. My wife was trying to be subtle, and I was aloof. I'm surprised either one of us had the guts to say something. I actually just straight up told one day. I think you're great, and I want to get to know you better.
But, no, no one flirts with me; at least I don't think so.
aranoid:
There's a HUGE difference in treating a woman like crap and being confident, honest and open about what you want and expect in a relationship.
Also, seriously... don't be a doormat... you'll hate yourself for it later.
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Chazwozel
Brother!
Pretty much this. My wife had to be so obvious, she practically told me "I'm flirting with you."[/QUOTE]
Yep, this. My wife was trying to be subtle, and I was aloof. I'm surprised either one of us had the guts to say something. I actually just straight up told one day. I think you're great, and I want to get to know you better.
But, no, no one flirts with me; at least I don't think so.
aranoid:[/QUOTE]It's because we're nice. And creepy.
It's difficult being in the middle of the spectrum here... I was the doormat in high school, going the "friends hoping to be more" route every time. Then, after I got dumped when I was getting prepared to deploy (so I thought), by a girl who I had overlooked the issues of because I thought I was being nice, I realized that it doesn't take a nice guy to be a doormat, and it doesn't take an asshole to be assertive.
Just be honest with yourself with what you want. Ipsum te nosce. If you know who you are and what you want (REALLY know what you want, not what you THINK you want - and face it; nobody WANTS to be unhappy. Some people just don't know HOW to be happy), then you'll be honest with the girls you go out with.
I was honest with the woman who I would later call my wife from day one. When we started going out, I told her this was probably going to be short-term, because I was fixing to rotate back to my reserve unit in three months, and I had already gone the long-distance route and found it to not be suitable to what I wanted. She accepted that, we got closer, until I felt I could use the "l-word" and MEAN it. Then I found that long-distance CAN work - you just have to be honest with your foundation from the beginning.
Here we are, 4 years and a soon-to-be-baby later. Honesty is ALWAYS the best policy - you just have to find that person who can accept what you're offering.
On a side note re: flirting, I get told that I flirt a lot, and that I'm being flirted with, by my wife (who is, I'll admit, not the most objective of witnesses). I just feel that I'm being friendly and joking around with someone. Maybe it's because I'm not usually talkative, but whenever it's a passing conversation with someone who I'll probably never meet again, I get chatty. Hmmm...
Just be honest with yourself with what you want. Ipsum te nosce. If you know who you are and what you want (REALLY know what you want, not what you THINK you want - and face it; nobody WANTS to be unhappy. Some people just don't know HOW to be happy), then you'll be honest with the girls you go out with.
I was honest with the woman who I would later call my wife from day one. When we started going out, I told her this was probably going to be short-term, because I was fixing to rotate back to my reserve unit in three months, and I had already gone the long-distance route and found it to not be suitable to what I wanted. She accepted that, we got closer, until I felt I could use the "l-word" and MEAN it. Then I found that long-distance CAN work - you just have to be honest with your foundation from the beginning.
Here we are, 4 years and a soon-to-be-baby later. Honesty is ALWAYS the best policy - you just have to find that person who can accept what you're offering.
On a side note re: flirting, I get told that I flirt a lot, and that I'm being flirted with, by my wife (who is, I'll admit, not the most objective of witnesses). I just feel that I'm being friendly and joking around with someone. Maybe it's because I'm not usually talkative, but whenever it's a passing conversation with someone who I'll probably never meet again, I get chatty. Hmmm...
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RealBigNuke
THIS. I think of myself as a nice guy, but if I would like to go out with a girl, FFS, I ask them out. Even if they decline and want to be friends, we can still be friends, but they know I'm interested and can choose to avoid it or pick it up later. Or they can stay away from me because they know I'm interested and they're not.
There's being a nice guy and then there's being a dishonest creeper. They aren't the same thing. Also being a dishonest creeper is not being respectful of women. You tell the truth at people you respect.
Damn, all this time we've been trying to set you up with the wrong type of guys.
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Wasabi Poptart
In my experience, men who consider themselves "nice guys" tend to be stretching the truth by quite a bit. One "nice guy" I dated told me all about how he hadn't dated anyone in a while because he had been so affected by his last girlfriend breaking up with him. He loved her more than anyone. When he and I started dating seriously, I quickly found out why she left him. He was an alcoholic and an angry drunk. He didn't think he had a problem. I got tired of trying to help him.
Another "nice guy" I dated told me all kinds of jokes when my grandfather committed suicide. I was having problems coming to grips with his death. When I told him I didn't feel like laughing, he said I was no fun. He was also an embarrassment in public because he thought he was being funny by doing obnoxious things. I even explained to him in no uncertain terms that I didn't think he was being funny. He just kept on being a clown. When I broke up with him, he accused me of cheating on him with a friend of mine. Then he called me a few months later to let me know he had a nervous breakdown caused by our break up. Apparently, I stomped on his heart when he was just trying to be nice and treat me like a princess. Really?
Another "nice guy" was such a Mama's Boy that he was pressuring me to have children since his mom wanted grandkids. We had only been dating for a couple of months! His mom would come over unannounced. So would his grandmom. They had keys to his house! He also never cleaned his house. It was so disgusting. It was honestly a major reason why I broke up with him. He was like a huge man-child,but he thought that being nice was enough to keep me around. Not in a million years.
The last "nice guy" wanted me to come help him babysit his ex-girlfriend's kids. LOLWUT?
Is this something that happens with all people who are just plainly nice? No. But if a guy came out and told me he's a "nice guy" I would be very skeptical about it actually being true. My husband is nice. He does a lot of things for me that many of the so-called "nice guys" just didn't bother to do. They were too self-centered and childish. My husband also came out and told me that he can be an asshole sometimes. He is, and there are times when he makes me angry, but that doesn't mean he treats me badly.
I've been a "nice guy". I'm trying not to be one anymore, but if I managed not to, I'm still near there. Or maybe it's just that I'm awkward with social relations and a coward.
Oh, I'm not saying I'm the perfect guy, not by a long shot! Lord knows I could go on for days listing my issues. But I don't like being accused of "playing" the nice guy, like there's no such thing or that it's a ploy to try and get into a girl's pants. It's one of the only good traits about me that I take pride in, that I'm a person that most people seem to get along with and that I'm pretty much an open book with those that call me a friend.
hwell:
Relax, Cheezy. We know you're an honestly sweet guy. But most of the vocally "I'm a 'nice guy', why don't I get any girls, they must all like assholes" types aren't actually nice, they're insecure and manipulative. Don't try and defend it, don't try and make yourself out as a martyr in the battlefield of relationships. Just be the good sweet-hearted guy you honestly are, and don't hide your motives or your interest. That is where being nice gets creepy.
Bingo, what Null said... (I was typing a reply but he beat me to it and said it better than I would have anyways).
(Hey, I'm a nice guy too, without the inverted commas. Those are two different concepts)
I consider myself a nice guy without any major glaring flaws like alcoholism, but then again I also have a girlfriend who is with me because she wants a nice guy, and our relationship is based on mutual respect and honesty, so I don't know what to think any more. 
Also, apparently a girl at my institute flirted with me for an entire academic year without me picking up any signals.
Also, apparently a girl at my institute flirted with me for an entire academic year without me picking up any signals.
figmentPez
Staff member
I used to be under the delusion that I was a nice guy. The way my last two relationships ended proved otherwise.
See we aren't really talking about "nice guys" here, we are talking about either manipulative guys or shy guys who are afriad of rejection. I'm a nice guy and very respectful when I was dating girls, but I learned quickly bein either of the above types leads to nothing good. So cheer up Cheesy, sounds like you are doing it right.
Agreed... there's a big difference between "nice guy" (in quotations) and a genuinely nice guy. The latter never need to advertise this fact.
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Wasabi Poptart
QFT!
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Wasabi Poptart
It depends on the guy and what our relationship is like. If we've been friendly and I don't have feelings for him, and he hasn't shown any obvious interest, then that is a friend asking me to a movie. If it is a guy I like, who has been flirty with me or otherwise shown an interest in a romantic relationship, then it is a date.
Cajungal
Staff member
If I guy that I have no connection with (or very little) would ask me out, I'd sort of assume that he might be interested. I'm sort of too assertive probably. If a guy offers to buy me a drink, I'm like, "Is this just a drink or 'i'm looking for an excuse to engage this girl and get to know her better'?" because I'm seeing someone. I like to put things out in the open early on the nip things in the bud. I'm a terrible flirt and don't really like being flirted with.
---------- Post added at 12:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:58 AM ----------
And as for nice guys, there are definitely those who are truly nice. Many of these guys get taken advantage of, which causes a problem for more people than he thinks. A guy being a martyr and not being able to stand up for himself can turn him into someone who takes advantage of other people's kindness as well. I don't mind being a confidante, but in high school I was dumped on by so many nice guys. It's gratifying to me to comfort and help people, but it was getting emotionally difficult. They were my friends, so I eventually just told em to man up and told them I didn't want to hear any complaints anymore if they refused to help themselves. I ended up being brutally honest with them to stop myself from complaining constantly to someone ELSE about all these guys, thus continuing the cycle of martyrs.
---------- Post added at 12:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:58 AM ----------
And as for nice guys, there are definitely those who are truly nice. Many of these guys get taken advantage of, which causes a problem for more people than he thinks. A guy being a martyr and not being able to stand up for himself can turn him into someone who takes advantage of other people's kindness as well. I don't mind being a confidante, but in high school I was dumped on by so many nice guys. It's gratifying to me to comfort and help people, but it was getting emotionally difficult. They were my friends, so I eventually just told em to man up and told them I didn't want to hear any complaints anymore if they refused to help themselves. I ended up being brutally honest with them to stop myself from complaining constantly to someone ELSE about all these guys, thus continuing the cycle of martyrs.
fade
Staff member
I don't have any problem flirting with girls in real life. In fact, I do it too much, even now that I'm married. I don't really mean anything by it. I mean, sure, I'd be lying through my teeth if I acted like I didn't have a biological urge to do things with them, but I just like the fun of it.
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Chazwozel
Hey so yeah, I'm not really digging the whole "Like 'em confident" moniker one of the mods threw up on my profile picture. Could you guys, you know, not fuck with people's profiles without them knowing about it?
It was probably just someone changing it through the Marketplace. It's a thing you can do now, you know.
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