Warhammer 40,000: Dark Millennium Online

[GasBandit]

I would give the Guardsman extra grouping bonuses/buffs.

Or if you wanted to get crazy, let players control a fire-team of guardsmen in real-time tactical fashion with the option to switch between individuals in combat for precision placement shooting. Then instead of a Space Marine just needing to give one guy a love-tap, he's actually fighting 5 guys at once at once who are able to hit him from much farther away and need to be killed in increments.

Then again, a good argument to not make the Guardsmen playable is that it makes wargear-progession balance difficult. They simply don't have the kind of bad-ass gear available to them on an individual-ish basis that the other classes might as they progress- no force-weapons, no storm-bolters, no Terminator armor, no daemon-weapons.

You'd have to let Guardsmen level up to driving battle-tanks...this game is going to be awesome!

Some of the footage has shown vehicles, so that might be a possibility...

My thoughts on how to handle the IG is simple - make the commissar the only "playable" character, but make any damage he takes divide evenly among all the guardsmen "pets" under his command (though any damage dealt to an individual guardsman fully affects that single guardsman). The Commissar can have access to laspistols and bolt pistols, as well as chainswords and 1 handed power weapons. Have the number of guardsmen under the commissar scale with level, have the kit of the individual guardsmen become more diverse as you level (start with just basic guardsmen with lasguns, as you level up have options to have grenadiers, plasma weapons, or meltas in limited numbers). Have a "morale" bar attached to the squad that depletes as it takes damage, but can be increased by getting kills or by the commissar using the "execute squad member for cowardice" ability. Basically, a union between an IG squad in DOW1 and the Mastermind class from City of Villains.

Other Non-Space Marine character class ideas for the imperium - Inquisitor (close range melee DPS), Vindicare (long range DPS/sniper), Sister of Battle, Enginseer, Psyker.

I'm also pretty pumped that they've confirmed (and even got engine footage of) titans being player-controllable and used in combat.

 

[AshburnerX]

Then again, a good argument to not make the Guardsmen playable is that it makes wargear-progession balance difficult. They simply don't have the kind of bad-ass gear available to them on an individual-ish basis that the other classes might as they progress- no force-weapons, no storm-bolters, no Terminator armor, no daemon-weapons.

Actually, this is untrue. Guard DO get some spiffy items. From Dawn of War, Dark Heresy, and the novels I've seen Guardsmen with...

- Armors: Flak, Mesh, Carapace. Probably Xenohides but those are rare.
- Ranged Weapons: Lasguns, Hellguns (better Lasguns), Flamers, Grenade Launchers, Bolters, Meltas, Plasma, and Sniper Rifles. Grenades too.
- Melee Weapons: Chainswords and Eviscerators (Usually on War Priests, Officers, and Commissars), Power Weapons (Officers and Commissars), Hunting Lances, and all manner of specially designed Close Combat Weapons that are native to their world.

That being said, yeah, I'd probably make Guardsmen group-oriented members of the team and make them more effective at using Vehicles and Artillery than other classes. There also needs to be a VERY clear distinction between what a Space Marine should be doing and what a Guardsmen should be doing. I'd probably give Marines weaker ranged weapons and attacks (mainly to emphasize the Guardsmen role) and make Guardsmen drop like paper under concentrated fire.

Other Non-Space Marine character class ideas for the imperium - Inquisitor (close range melee DPS), Vindicare (long range DPS/sniper), Sister of Battle, Enginseer, Psyker.

If you look in the video, you can clearly see some Adeptus Mechanicus folks helping a Space Marine take out an enemy. It's pretty clear they are putting them in the game as a playable class.

 

[Shegokigo]

With this new info, I'm going to finally get into the Warhammer 40k universe novels.... now where to start.... I could have sworn I started a thread about this a while back.

 

[GasBandit]

With this new info, I'm going to finally get into the Warhammer 40k universe novels.... now where to start.... I could have sworn I started a thread about this a while back.

My favorite series is Commisar Cain: Hero of the Imperium.

 

[Shegokigo]

Favorite series or best series to start with to get a grasp of the universe and it's workings?

 

[GasBandit]

Favorite series or best series to start with to get a grasp of the universe and it's workings?

Favorite, it's actually a little off-kilter for the genre, which is why I like it so much... it's like the Blackadder of 40k. Space Wolves is a good place to get a good feel for 40k, I think.

 

[Denbrought]

To get a grasp of the universe you might enjoy Eisenhorn and Ravenor, two omnibuses about inquisitors of the Ordo Xenos, they explores a lot of the imperium's landscape and workings. If you like intrigue with a background of action, they're good reads.

The Gaunt's Ghosts book series explains nicely how the Imperium fights war, although the main characters are part of a recon regiment, so they deal with unusual stuff (if the book was about normal guardsmen, we'd be losing 80% of the characters every book). If you like soldiering books, these are nice. 3 omnibuses so far.

Anything by Dan Abnett is a good bet, really.

If I were you I'd avoid Spesh Mareens books, all the ones I've read had a pretty boring plot.

 

[AshburnerX]

Yeah, I'd read Space Wolves or Gaunt's Ghosts if you want a "proper" introduction to the universe. The Ciaphis Cain series is great too, with it being very funny and entertaining compared to some of the dryer, more serious novels. That said, no matter WHAT you get, try to get one of the Omnibus versions as they are pretty cheap and you get more bang for your buck.

Ciaphis Cain: Hero of the Imperium ($10.20) (First three Books: Hero of the Imperium, Caves of Ice, and The Traitor's Hand. Also the first 3 short stories)

Ciaphis Cain: Defender of the Imperium (Death or Glory, Duty Calls and Cain's Last Stand, plus the short story Traitor's Gambit and a new introduction from author Sandy Mitchell.)

Space Wolf Omnibus: Spacewolf / Ragnar's Claw / Grey Hunter (Warhammer 40,000)

Space Wolf: The Second Omnibus (Not sure what's in this one)

Gaunt's Ghosts: The Founding (First three Gaunt's Ghosts books)

 

[Officer_Charon]

Shego: I'd definitely recommend the Eisenhorn omnibus to you, so you can get a solid feel for the universe, it's grimdarkness, and the general feel of the despondency that the average schlub feels in this setting.

That said, Caiphas Cain was the first book that I picked up, and I have never regretted it. As stated, it's so very much NOT the norm for the series, but the characters are fantastic. The same author has also written a couple Dark Heresy-based novels, which retain the same type of humor, but are closer to the "norm" in the Black Library.

It's nice to have an alternative to "ALL GRIMDARK, ALL THE TIME," though.

 

[GasBandit]

But in the grim darkness of the Grimdark, there is only grim and dark.

 

[Azurephoenix]

MOAR GRIMDARK!!!!

MOAR SKULLS!!!!

 

[Denbrought]

.

 

[SpecialKO]

Actually, this is untrue. Guard DO get some spiffy items. From Dawn of War, Dark Heresy, and the novels I've seen Guardsmen with...

- Armors: Flak, Mesh, Carapace. Probably Xenohides but those are rare.
- Ranged Weapons: Lasguns, Hellguns (better Lasguns), Flamers, Grenade Launchers, Bolters, Meltas, Plasma, and Sniper Rifles. Grenades too.
- Melee Weapons: Chainswords and Eviscerators (Usually on War Priests, Officers, and Commissars), Power Weapons (Officers and Commissars), Hunting Lances, and all manner of specially designed Close Combat Weapons that are native to their world.

Yes, but the point is that none of those really put them on anything close to parity in terms of what they can acquire and wield in individual combat versus a Space Marine, or an Ork, or an Eldar, etc. The whole point of the Guardsmen is that there are trillions of them and they have billions of vehicles. That's fine in DoW or regular play when it's Army on Army, because you can just give the IG a much bigger Army, but that's much harder in an MMO when every player is a single character, even if the IG are the only ones with heavy artillery (or "summon Baneblade" )

---------- Post added at 09:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:28 PM ----------

@Shego: I'll fourth the Ciaphas Cain series. Huge, huge fun, and actually provides a very good view of how the rest of the Imperium functions on a day-to-day level when you're not a Space Marine, Inquisitor, or hip deep in the entrails of your friends. Space Wolves is okay, Eisenhorn/Ravenor are pretty solid, and the Gaunt's Ghosts books are probably the best "setting" books I have ever read as far as the constantly-at-war aspect is concerned. I would avoid most of the other Space Marine books though, they're written a little too much like videogame fanfiction.

If you're interested in some deep background, and Space Marine stories that are actually pretty good, read the first three books of the Horus Heresy series. They depict the events that gave rise to the current state of affairs. If you like them, read the next two, and if you like them feel free to try out the rest of the series, but the quality is a bit inconsistent after that, and less focused on the main events of the overplot. Most of them deal with different events and characters, so you're not missing anything but a little additional fluff, really, if you stop at the fifth book.

 

[AshburnerX]

Yes, but the point is that none of those really put them on anything close to parity in terms of what they can acquire and wield in individual combat versus a Space Marine, or an Ork, or an Eldar, etc. The whole point of the Guardsmen is that there are trillions of them and they have billions of vehicles. That's fine in DoW or regular play when it's Army on Army, because you can just give the IG a much bigger Army, but that's much harder in an MMO when every player is a single character, even if the IG are the only ones with heavy artillery (or "summon Baneblade" )

It's really going to depend on the type of trooper they have us play it seems. A normal Trooper isn't going to have the bite to compete with those guys, but something like a Kasrkin, Cadian Shock Troop, or Inquisitorial Storm Trooper (especially if they get Hotshot Lasguns) would at least have a HOPE of living and would likely have the weapons needed to compete. A Commissar would DEFINITELY be able to stand their own (if only because of how they are portrayed in the novels).

 

[SpecialKO]

It actually depends on how exemplary the "exceptional exemplars" argument allows Commissars to be. Gaunt, Yarrick, and Cain are main characters, so they get ridiculous plot-powers, like every main character in the lore, when every other character gets mowed down around them. Its noted several times in the various series/backgrounds that these three are notable exceptions among Commissars in actual physical martial ability, Cain and Yarrick especially.

 

[Hailey Knight]

Damn, I gotta pick up that Cain big book.

 

[Telephius]

Yeah once I get done with the Horus Heresy I am probably going to read the Cain ones.

 

[AshburnerX]

It actually depends on how exemplary the "exceptional exemplars" argument allows Commissars to be. Gaunt, Yarrick, and Cain are main characters, so they get ridiculous plot-powers, like every main character in the lore, when every other character gets mowed down around them. Its noted several times in the various series/backgrounds that these three are notable exceptions among Commissars in actual physical martial ability, Cain and Yarrick especially.

I was always under the impression that Yarrick's power came from the fact that he's BATSHIT CRAZY. I mean, he picked up a Power Claw... and used it to rip people in half. And then decided he liked it so much that he would KEEP IT.

 

[Baerdog]

Don't forget how the Orks eventually started rumors about how he could kill with a mere glance, so he got a laser eye implanted to PROVE THEM RIGHT.

Yarrik is pretty badass for a puny humie.

 

[LordRendar]

I really hope that they will keep adding Races over time like they do in WoW.

 

[SpecialKO]

I really hope that they will keep adding Races over time like they do in WoW.

I have no freakin' clue how they would balance the Necrons for individual play, but the Tau or the 'Nids would be cool.

 

[Azurephoenix]

I'm pretty sure necrons will be another PVE faction when the time comes (either content update or expansion). Tyranids have already been named as the main PVE enemy.

 

[SpecialKO]

Hmmm, will the playable races also be available as PvE content for the other faction? I'm assuming as much, but I haven't seen an announcement.

 

[Azurephoenix]

Probably... but I can almost guarantee you will not get to play as a Tyranid... not for a long time anyway.

 

[AshburnerX]

Yeah, Tyranids would have been impossible to make playable without completely changing their loot drops. I suspect we'll get Tau and probably Dark Eldar if the game does well, but it's too far into the future to predict.

 

[Dubyamn]

I was always under the impression that Yarrick's power came from the fact that he's BATSHIT CRAZY. I mean, he picked up a Power Claw... and used it to rip people in half. And then decided he liked it so much that he would KEEP IT.

No he had his arm ripped off by the power claw, he then killed the ork weilding it and fought on until the day was won did he allow himself to pass out. He had the claw grafted onto him afterwards as a trophy and as a replacement arm..

 

[Denbrought]

THQ - THQ TV - Warhammer® 40,000® Dark Millennium Online - Gamescom Trailer

Gatdamn teases.

 

[Necronic]

My brother and I spent a long time figuring out how you could make this game and actually have it work. Some of the bullet points have me generally impressed (tyranids as fully PvE), but I still wish I could have designed this game. Here was my wish:

The biggest problem with this game is the "jedi issue" that SWO got, basically that Space Marines should be godlike compared to most other units, especially guardsmen, and the only way you could have them run as individuals side by side would require unrealistic abilities focused around exagerated concepts (like a guardsman calling in an orbital bombardment.)

The strength of a guardsman is the men around them, which made us decide that the only way a guardsman unit could work was if he didn't level up by gaining health, but by gaining men. You start off as a seargeant and have 5-10 men that would use an AI that combined with your actions/orders would operate as a single unit. From there, you gain 'requisition' and 'command' that you can use to expand your force and its gear. If any of yall remember the aborted MMO Gods and Monsters or whatever it was (cancelled for STO, good call....) it would be a similar concept.

Here's where it gets interesting. When you get to the level of a major or a colonel you are marshalling hundreds of troops. At this point your scale turns into more of a strategic deployment. You would still have the ability to hand control specific units, but for the most part you would be issuing global orders to your AI troops like "go take this facility". By issuing this order you create an AI battlefield that will slowly resolve based on math and whatever special requisition you bring in, but you also plant a flag which will attract other lower ranked commanders and specialists. People that show up at a flagged battlefield get command points (for following orders) and will add to the overall chance of winning a battle. Depending on your rank you can set specific targeted orders (like a Major could issue an order to focus on a specific section of the battlefield, while a lord commander could issue an order to take a region.)

If you consistently disobey orders, you get a commisar in your squad.

I forgot how we decided how people would advance. In a game like this not everyone gets to be awesome. You could develop your squad/troop as a more specialist group like a sapper squad or a sniper unit. Also, I can't remember how we figured out how dying works. I think our attitude was that when you die, you die. I mean, this is the cold dark future of the 40th millenia. Your unit maintains its level of command and requisition, but your character dies.

For space marines I think we decided that the best you could ever get was a squad of guys. Space marines really are the terminators of the future. Anything short of overwhelming force will get slaughtered by them.

For the different factions, you had Order (Space Marines/Guard/Tau), Chaos (Chaos/Daemons/Orks) and the Spoiler factions (Eldar/Necrons). Like in Planetside each side had strategic goals that it could get which would allow it to give out requisition to its troops, and eventually achieve a win condition, at which point the world resets (shouldn't happen more than once a year). For Eldar and Necrons they would have much more ephemeral goals than conquest, as they would probably have a much smaller player count, and honestly that fits their factions better. Sometimes they may help the imperium/chaos, sometimes not.

Of course, this is all completely ridiculous and would never work, but I still like the idea.

 

[Hailey Knight]

Right . Ridiculous.

As for the teaser: I am shocked. That is really the last race I thought would appear in the game as playable. Hot damn.