Church to protest Comic-Con because of 'idol worship'

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^That's absolutely true. There was a counter protest against WBC at my old Culinary School when they came to protest our Gay-Straight Association. Hundreds of people... more people than I thought lived in Thibodaux :awesome:. They were quoted saying that they were thrilled about the counter protest because it means that they "got their message out to that many people" or something along those lines. Nothing fazes them, so it's best to ignore.
I dunno, I think I found my con outfit, and mingling would be fun
 
If the original protesters protest the protesters that are protesting their protest... does the word "protest" start making sense again? Cause it totally lost it for me now.
 
C

Chibibar

How are comic book characters "idols" and the three trillion canonized "saints" not?
I always wonder about that. I was thumbing my cable channel and came across a documentary call religion. One of the priest (or ex priest or something) said they did a poll at the Vatican on who they ask for help (prayers) Jesus was 5th on the list)

this mean that people usually pray to different Saints FIRST. Does this mean they are worship icons?

Also there are many icons of Jesus on the cross, stain glass, and a bunch of other stuff does that count as icons?
 
As someone that was raised a Catholic I can totally confirm it's a polytheistic religion masquerading as monotheistic.
 
S

Soliloquy

I've always heard it explained that they're asking the saints to pray to God for them -- like going up to someone who has God's ear, and asking them to talk to god on their behalf.

---------- Post added at 08:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:18 PM ----------

^That's absolutely true. There was a counter protest against WBC at my old Culinary School when they came to protest our Gay-Straight Association. Hundreds of people... more people than I thought lived in Thibodaux :awesome:. They were quoted saying that they were thrilled about the counter protest because it means that they "got their message out to that many people" or something along those lines. Nothing fazes them, so it's best to ignore.
I dunno, I think I found my con outfit, and mingling would be fun
[/QUOTE]

Be sure to express full approval of Westboro's antics.
 

Cajungal

Staff member
As it's been stated, WBC's not catholic and opposes Catholics strongly.

But the way it was always explained to me, Chibi, is that the Saints help God to "watch over" certain people, and that they relay our prayers to Jesus... which makes them sound like heavenly cubicle slaves. When I was a Catholic, I thought of them as just good examples and a kind of guide that was less intimidating than Jesus, who was part divine. Telling young Catholics that St. Augustine was one of the least holy men you could think of before he gained Sainthood is kind of like telling a struggling student that Einstein failed math (even though he actually didn't, right?).
 
As someone that was raised a Catholic I can totally confirm it's a polytheistic religion masquerading as monotheistic.
I know a lot of former catholics who feel this way, taken strictly on a theological basis there isn't any real biblical basis for praying to "saints", giving it little real authority as something one must do, however the Catholic Church does a fantastic job of creating non-biblical or vaguely biblically related rituals that are unique to them as a church.
 
C

Chibibar

As it's been stated, WBC's not catholic and opposes Catholics strongly.

But the way it was always explained to me, Chibi, is that the Saints help God to "watch over" certain people, and that they relay our prayers to Jesus... which makes them sound like heavenly cubicle slaves. When I was a Catholic, I thought of them as just good examples and a kind of guide that was less intimidating than Jesus, who was part divine. Telling young Catholics that St. Augustine was one of the least holy men you could think of before he gained Sainthood is kind of like telling a struggling student that Einstein failed math (even though he actually didn't, right?).
boy that does sound worst.
 

Cajungal

Staff member
As it's been stated, WBC's not catholic and opposes Catholics strongly.

But the way it was always explained to me, Chibi, is that the Saints help God to "watch over" certain people, and that they relay our prayers to Jesus... which makes them sound like heavenly cubicle slaves. When I was a Catholic, I thought of them as just good examples and a kind of guide that was less intimidating than Jesus, who was part divine. Telling young Catholics that St. Augustine was one of the least holy men you could think of before he gained Sainthood is kind of like telling a struggling student that Einstein failed math (even though he actually didn't, right?).
boy that does sound worst.[/QUOTE]

My Theology teachers were shockingly bad at teaching us about the church that they claimed was the only correct one. :p I could find some positivity in it, but like espy said, there was no requirement to pray to saints or even Mary as long as we honored and respected them. I used to like saying St. Gertrude's prayer before bed for the souls in Purgatory. In fact, I think the prayer I copied on notebook paper from a library book is still hanging in my old bedroom. Wow, memories... Catholicism used to be such a huge part of my life. I always figured I'd grow up to be an old lady who said Novenas and taught Catechism, heheh.
 
I've always heard it explained that they're asking the saints to pray to God for them -- like going up to someone who has God's ear, and asking them to talk to god on their behalf.
That's not really the case in practical terms for many, many church goers, though. Down here saints are really, truly worshipped with altars and with specific "miracle requests" and stuff. Saints can't get canonized until a "miracle" is attributed to them... so... y'know..... yeah.

There's a popular saint down here whose figure single women turn upside down so he will "find a husband" for them. Stuff like that. It's really similar to how the Romans prayed to a certain god for a certain request... how is that not very polytheistic-y?
 
It looks quite polytheistic, but it isn't. Nobody, not even the ones who pray to the saints regularly, not even the ones who pray to the saints exclusively, would claim that they are God. I imagine that it's much like the Loa in Haitian Voodun: you bring them your requests, and you venerate those Loa that you associate with, and that are appointed patrons over the things you care about. But you also understand that the Loa aren't God, and you know that the Loa actually answer to Bon Dye, who is the apex of the whole scheme, and the only perfect, and most powerful piece in the structure.

I am thoroughly protestant, but I have accepted certain Saints as my 'icons.' I don't pray to them, because I don't believe that's how it works. But I do respect their images and venerate them in my own private way, for the things that they have come to symbolize.
 
I've always heard it explained that they're asking the saints to pray to God for them -- like going up to someone who has God's ear, and asking them to talk to god on their behalf.
That's not really the case in practical terms for many, many church goers, though. Down here saints are really, truly worshipped with altars and with specific "miracle requests" and stuff. Saints can't get canonized until a "miracle" is attributed to them... so... y'know..... yeah.

There's a popular saint down here whose figure single women turn upside down so he will "find a husband" for them. Stuff like that. It's really similar to how the Romans prayed to a certain god for a certain request... how is that not very polytheistic-y?[/QUOTE]

I've always looked at it in the same way as medicine. It's one art, but it has a miriad of specialties, and depending on what ails you, you'll go to one specialist or another. You probably also have a family doctor/GP. Look at the god as the knowledge and the saints as the handymen.
 
It looks quite polytheistic, but it isn't. Nobody, not even the ones who pray to the saints regularly, not even the ones who pray to the saints exclusively, would claim that they are God. I imagine that it's much like the Loa in Haitian Voodun: you bring them your requests, and you venerate those Loa that you associate with, and that are appointed patrons over the things you care about. But you also understand that the Loa aren't God, and you know that the Loa actually answer to Bon Dye, who is the apex of the whole scheme, and the only perfect, and most powerful piece in the structure.

I am thoroughly protestant, but I have accepted certain Saints as my 'icons.' I don't pray to them, because I don't believe that's how it works. But I do respect their images and venerate them in my own private way, for the things that they have come to symbolize.
That's just semantics. They act like they WERE lesser gods, which means it's a polytheistic behavior.

And that's really like lots of people see saints... as lesser gods with specific talents, who like candles being burned in their honor and have PARTICULAR PRAYERS. Come on, PARTICULAR PERSONALIZED SAINT-SPECIFIC PRAYERS! No matter how much you say they're not "God", you're still acting like they are for all intents and purposes.

It may not be as clear cut as a Roman pantheon, but even they had hierarchies, Zeus was the king/god of gods and they all answered to him... but if you wanted a good harvest you still prayed to someone else.
 
That's just semantics. They act like they WERE lesser gods, which means it's a polytheistic behavior.

And that's really like lots of people see saints... as lesser gods with specific talents, who like candles being burned in their honor and have PARTICULAR PRAYERS. Come on, PARTICULAR PERSONALIZED SAINT-SPECIFIC PRAYERS! No matter how much you say they're not "God", you're still acting like they are for all intents and purposes.

It may not be as clear cut as a Roman pantheon, but even they had hierarchies, Zeus was the king/god of gods and they all answered to him... but if you wanted a good harvest you still prayed to someone else.
But in a truly pantheistic system the independent Gods each have their own power, which is not leased out from someone greater than them. You don't pray that Poseidon might use his influence with Zeus to calm the seas. You just ask Poseidon to calm the ocean. Zeus might be the king of Gods, the first among the immortals or whatever, but he is in some essence still equal to them. It isn't a matter of semantics at all. It's a matter of the (supposed) metaphysical structure of the system. Do saints have their own power? No. What they do have is a bit of pull with God, who is the seat of all the power in the entire system. Then they aren't Gods, even if they have their own prayers or (as in a lot of Latin America) their own altars and shrines.

It's kind of like the mechanism for electing an American president. At a glance it looks like a direct democracy, because in their heads everyone is voting for who is going into the White House. In reality, though, it's structured so that it's truly an indirect election. Similarly, the Catholic system might at first glance appear to be polytheistic, what with an encyclopedia's worth of saints and beautified individuals, but a real look at the (again, supposed) power structure reveals that it still acknowledges only one God.
 
I like what the Patriot Guard does to these assholes: Just stands there, with flags in hand, blocking the view of the scum from the families of the dead servicemembers. They don't taunt, they don't antagonize, they just stand there. Watching.
 
I

Iaculus

To be honest, this is probably one of the least harmful things they've done. Comic-Con is a huge event; they'll just be another group of weirdos.
 
C

Chibibar

I like what the Patriot Guard does to these assholes: Just stands there, with flags in hand, blocking the view of the scum from the families of the dead servicemembers. They don't taunt, they don't antagonize, they just stand there. Watching.
What piss me off to no end is that these "church Phelps group" (I put in quote cause I don't recognize them as a church personally) don't see the big picture. These service members gave up their lives for their country so these a-hole have the liberty to be a-hole. The service members are doing their job through out history and help made this country great. If people have issue with the direction of the use of the military, blame the politicians, not the soldiers. I don't care of their sexual orientation, they gave up their lives to give me the freedom to post what I want on the internet, to buy what I want and live how I want. There are countries around the world (like China) where such liberties you do not have.
 
You don't pray that Poseidon might use his influence with Zeus to calm the seas. You just ask Poseidon to calm the ocean.
Which is what some people do with saints.[/QUOTE]

Well then that's borderline heretical.

---------- Post added at 08:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:33 PM ----------

Alternatively: "Those people are confused."
 

Cajungal

Staff member
Yeah, that doesn't really happen much here, and I spent 12 years in Catholic school. :p People honor the saints and say their prayers, but you got major flack from teachers/priests/brothers if you even hinted at worshiping saints the way you worship god. Hell, my aunt refused to let my cousin go through with a theology project involving some kind of tribute to Mary because she thought it was "questionable behavior" for a Catholic.
 
Yeah, that doesn't really happen much here, and I spent 12 years in Catholic school. :p People honor the saints and say their prayers, but you got major flack from teachers/priests/brothers if you even hinted at worshiping saints the way you worship god. Hell, my aunt refused to let my cousin go through with a theology project involving some kind of tribute to Mary because she thought it was "questionable behavior" for a Catholic.
Well, people do not worship saints the same way they do god, exactly. It's like Calleja said, they treat them like lesser gods. God's still the important one, but they also have the saints.
Down in Andalusia this is particularly true with the virgin Mary. The do worship her. Like, a lot.
 
Oh yeah, the Virgin Mary! We have La Virgen de Guadalupe here... I would take the bet that's she's worshiped down here more than Jesus himself.


She's like the Beatles of catholicism.... heh... hehehe
 
There are several lawyers in the family and they want to A. be denied their right to protest so they can sue the city/county, representing themselves so they have no legal costs and go for an out of court settlement or B. be assaulted by an individual at the event they are protesting so they can sue the individial/venue, representing themselves so they have no legal costs and go for an out of court settlement. They have a documentary "The Most Hated Family in America" that holds true to its title. They thrive off making people miserable. When you are that full of hate the only enjoyment you can find is making other people just as miserable.
 


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Also, the Google ad for me on this page is:


Become a god's children? Which one?
 
That's ... that's incredible.

Also, this reminds me of the E3 protest against Dante's Inferno last year ... which ended up being a marketing ploy by EA. It gives me hope that the Phelps-ites might actually all be actors of some sort, all on some sort of long viral-marketing campaign FOR homosexuality, or the army, or both.
 
S

Soliloquy

That's ... that's incredible.

Also, this reminds me of the E3 protest against Dante's Inferno last year ... which ended up being a marketing ploy by EA. It gives me hope that the Phelps-ites might actually all be actors of some sort, all on some sort of long viral-marketing campaign FOR homosexuality, or the army, or both.
I'm pretty sure that if that were revealed, it would backfire to an epic degree. It would gather outrage from the homosexual community and/or military for the pain and suffering they put the families at the funerals through for the sake of that agenda, and would gain ire from the Christians of the world for making the religious community look like a bunch of irrational nut-jobs by association.

In fact, I'm not sure I can think of any group that wouldn't be angry about that.
 
I agree, but I'd prefer them to be garden variety idiots than hateful idiots.

I'm actually surprised that the E3 'promotional protest' didn't draw more ire from various churches/Christians. There are enough nutjob sects being intolerant assholes as it is. Cooking up a fake protest and then blaming it on 'the church' doesn't really help those of us who are trying to be tolerant and ... you know ... live by the gospel.

---------- Post added at 04:22 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:21 AM ----------

In fact, I'm not sure I can think of any group that wouldn't be angry about that.
The people who predicted they weren't real, and were a viral campaign.

We'll call them the Followers of Rob King. :D[/QUOTE]

I like "All Rob King's Horses and All Rob King's Men."
 
That's ... that's incredible.

Also, this reminds me of the E3 protest against Dante's Inferno last year ... which ended up being a marketing ploy by EA. It gives me hope that the Phelps-ites might actually all be actors of some sort, all on some sort of long viral-marketing campaign FOR homosexuality, or the army, or both.
I'm pretty sure that if that were revealed, it would backfire to an epic degree. It would gather outrage from the homosexual community and/or military for the pain and suffering they put the families at the funerals through for the sake of that agenda, and would gain ire from the Christians of the world for making the religious community look like a bunch of irrational nut-jobs by association.

In fact, I'm not sure I can think of any group that wouldn't be angry about that.[/QUOTE]

But you have to admit that the concept of viral marketing for the homosexual military is a hilarious idea.
 
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