Sucker Punch
- Thread starter linglingface
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Then he really will be Frank Miller.I look forward to watching him turn Lois Lane into a whore
Anyway, after some PMs, I realize I never got around to explaining "it" for makare, and I neglected to identity what "it" was, because pronouns are my anti-drug.
SO I am going to explain what the deal is with Sucker Punch vs women; I am going to dish out some wisdom, so keep your heads down.
There, done. Phew, that took it out of me.
Sexuality is irrelevant to women's empowerment. If a person has power, confidence, freedom, choice, etc. all those good things, it does not matter how they're dressed. If anything, it's empowering not to give a shit what others think of your clothes, tastes, hairstyle, movie preferences, regardless of how much they bitch about it. This applies to EVERYONE, not just one gender. Maybe one person may derive their empowerment through sexuality. Or through what movies they like. Or whatever. It is irrelevant--clothes do not make the man or woman.
And having imagined women shooting the shit out of imaginary monsters, or servicing imaginary clients, is irrelevant when the real woman imagining it all gets lobotomized. She is not empowered by having her life ruined so she may live in fantasies. That's like saying an abused child is empowered because s/he has an imagination and can have dreams at night. It's stupid, the movie is offensive, and Zack Snyder is a piece of shit trying to say that's a positive outcome for the main character.
Sucker Punch: "Hey rape victims, it's okay if you go to your happy place"
Sucker Punch grossed less this weekend than Diary of a Wimpy Kid 2.
**Spoilers**
So my friend and I have been talking a bit about Rocket, Amber and Blondie. I'm interested in what other people think...
So my friend and I have been talking a bit about Rocket, Amber and Blondie. I'm interested in what other people think...
Did they *really* die? We think Babydoll only saw them at the table when she got to the asylum before planting them into her brothel fantasy. They died in her fantasy, but did they die in real life?
Sweet Pea escaped in real life, but not in either fantasy. Also, after her lobotomy, V Gorski mentions that Babydoll stabbed an orderly, set fire to a room and helped a girl escape, without any mention of the deaths of the other girls. I realize she's not going to mention every little thing that Babydoll's done, but being responsible for 3 deaths seems like something worth mentioning.
Sucky movie or not, I don't care. Just interested in hearing other opinions on this.
Sweet Pea escaped in real life, but not in either fantasy. Also, after her lobotomy, V Gorski mentions that Babydoll stabbed an orderly, set fire to a room and helped a girl escape, without any mention of the deaths of the other girls. I realize she's not going to mention every little thing that Babydoll's done, but being responsible for 3 deaths seems like something worth mentioning.
Sucky movie or not, I don't care. Just interested in hearing other opinions on this.
Ok, so I just saw it today and I really liked it. I don't really feel I need to go into whether or not it was misogynistic because I don't think it was set out to make any kind of point like that. It was just supposed to be 2 hours of entertainment and it handily accomplished that.
Anyway, that is all, we now return you to your regularly scheduled pissing match over who has the better taste in movies.
Heatherling, to answer your question, I think they did die in real life. The knife was missing from the chef's belt; they had the map, lighter, and key when escaping; and the gun was shown in the Blue's desk at the start. So, I think it did happen like that, just not all glitzed up, of course. What happened in the brothel fantasy was just a facade over the real world. The two worlds did interact. It was the battle scenes that were not really connected to reality. Also, Babydoll didn't cause the deaths of the 3 girls, that was the cook & Blue's doing. Which would be why Gorski didn't mention them.
Anyway, that is all, we now return you to your regularly scheduled pissing match over who has the better taste in movies.
Hmm that's true. I wish there would have been at least one more dream sequence! Hopefully there will be a lot more on the DVD!
A friend linked this today:
http://www.reelzchannel.com/movie-n...-mpaa-over-sucker-punch-love-scene-censoring/
I don't think that scene is really necessary, honestly.
A friend linked this today:
http://www.reelzchannel.com/movie-n...-mpaa-over-sucker-punch-love-scene-censoring/
I don't think that scene is really necessary, honestly.
Yeah... I'm actually glad it wasn't in the film. I do, however, want to see the dances that were omitted. Each girl, except Babydoll, had their own dance that defined their character I guess... Vanessa Hudgens had to learn bellydancing and I guess Rocket's dance included a giant syringe with her in a nurses outfit.
A movie can very easily be misogynistic without maliciously intending to do such.
C
Chibibar
My wife and I saw this movie and we like it.
There are two folds on this movie (at least what I got from it) I will probably put in a lot of spoiler tags in case people haven't seen it yet.
So, does the movie promote women empowerment? I believe it does in a way if see PAST the "fetish" theme.
What does the movie hope to accomplish? Well, in reality it is trying to make money. What makes money? scantly clad women with cool action scenes and rated PG 13. PG 13 is a sweet spot to actually make money since rated R is harder and G you have too many restriction.
Now for my poor English review
Note: I may edit this now and then BUT I will put in Edit: instead of removing words.
Another Note: I may jump around a bit since it has been 1 day since I watched it. I will try to convey what I have in my head properly and hopefully it will make sense to you.
There are two folds on this movie (at least what I got from it) I will probably put in a lot of spoiler tags in case people haven't seen it yet.
So, does the movie promote women empowerment? I believe it does in a way if see PAST the "fetish" theme.
What does the movie hope to accomplish? Well, in reality it is trying to make money. What makes money? scantly clad women with cool action scenes and rated PG 13. PG 13 is a sweet spot to actually make money since rated R is harder and G you have too many restriction.
Now for my poor English review
Note: I may edit this now and then BUT I will put in Edit: instead of removing words.
Another Note: I may jump around a bit since it has been 1 day since I watched it. I will try to convey what I have in my head properly and hopefully it will make sense to you.
How in the heck does Chibibar know anything about women empowerment. Well, in reality I don't since I am male, but being a supporter of women's right and equality, I think I may have a small glimpse of it.
So what do we got?
First the basic premise of the movie is this. Everyone has a Guardian angel. This angel might be a neighbor, friend, strangers, or just a voice inside your head. The guardian angel will help you in a time of need.
Meaning? It means then when you are down in the dumps, a situation, a person, or a vision might come to you to help you guide you to a better situation. This movie? it is about Babydoll being Sweetpea's guardian angel.
Second, the movie is trying to make a really boring escape from a mental institution a bit more interesting. I mean sure you can have a person who is "crazy" (babydoll) and trying to seduce each target to get what she needs to escape, but that is kinda boring. So they change "seduce" into a "dance" now that is what I got from it. What kind of dance? that is up to your imagination. The action scene is just a third level on making a mundane action into a fun thing to watch.
Third, the movie does project "some" women empowerment. I will get more into it as I describe what I saw.
The movie world.
We have three different perception/realities
The real world (RW): it is a mental institution. The world is bland and well, evil. Life is like that. Life is hard. Life is never about giving a person a chance. We learn this when Babydoll was attempted to be attacked by her step father and later the step father was trying to attack babydoll's sister. Why? he is a bastard, he also wasn't getting the inheritance from the marriage. Babydoll was trying to protect her sister and end up killing her also the step father wanted the money so put babydoll in an institution and have her lobotomized. nice eh? The sad part is that, being the real world, that happen all the time and some people get away with it (the step father did)
The Sexy World (SW) : this basically is to draw on the men to watch it. Who doesn't like scantly clad women in a Burlesque type show. This world shows that if a women want to get somewhere, they have to be sexy. Well that is what people think the message is, but what it REALLY is that the women (the dancers) are really trapping themselves into that role. They think this is all there is. They think they are limited by what the world gives them. This world is "your perception" of the world. You make what you want of it. you can make your boring lives a lot more exciting via your own perception. You can make the difference if you choose to. This world shows that the women are "slaves" to the orderly BUT that is true because they only perceive it to be. Even the doctor (who in the real world is in charge), thinks she is "under" the orderly (my interpretation) (1)
The war world (WW): This is your sub conscious or your "soul" "inner thoughts" "your mind" What ever you may call it, this is where the real battle is about. This is where you think about the things you want to do, what you could do, you fight with your inner self to achieve your goal. The director/story writer made the actual sequence/result from this world. Why? cause it is easy that to show what a person try to do, and then show the real world and switch back? nah. too boring. It is better to let your imagination figure out what REALLY happen. (2)
(1) In any institution (pun intended) there is always someone who seems to "runs the show" It may not be the actual person in charge. The orderly seems to be doing a lot on the inside. He knows the ins and outs of the place and can make things happen. This is true in the real world. You be surprise how a person in certain position can seem to influence people or "make things happen" like an office. You have bosses come and go, but who usually are around (well most of the time) it is the office assistance, or a clerk, or something who knows what is what. They actually have more power than the CEO (again, perception)
(2) the exception was when sweetpea was trying to steal the knife and Rocket got killed. It was a touching moment, but not as awesome when you saw on the train where it was a choice/sacrifice of the younger sister save her older sister (launching her out of the train before it explodes = jumping in front of the butcher and took a stabbing for her older sister)
So. That is fine and dandy Chibi, where in the world is the women empowerment?
In the War World (WW), Babydoll met up with an old man (who is Babydoll's angel) told her that she had ALL weapons in the world to help her. It is figurative in terms that she has all the smarts to do it, but she project them as actual weapon. The battles she fought was actually using tools she had (sexual, psychological, or physical) to achieve her goals. The goals was to escape. She needed help. She saw the way and she need others to help her.
There was a scene where the Orderly found out (I forgot his name) or thinks he found out and try to scare the girls BACK into their submissive roles, but the women did not back down (after a small scene) Figure the will not take it anymore and move on.
In the end, where Babydoll was telling Sweetpea that she was the strongest only because Babydoll was Sweetpea's guardian angel. Babydoll knows that she can't fight against the situation she got herself in. The Orderly saw to that by order a lobotomize on Babydoll BUT Babydoll knows that she can do what she can NOW and then "dream" in peace (hence the last smile which freak the doctor out)
The story was actually Sweetpea, but it was twisted to start with Babydoll. Interesting twist. I didn't like it, but that was the director's choice.
So, what is the basic message.
Everyone has all the weapon they need to achieve the goals in life. This can mean almost anything really. It can mean that you have the capability to do anything if you put your mind to it. For a long time (men's fault) been putting down women or try to "stick them" into roles for a long while. Women as just as smart, talented, and some say better than men, but they let their perception (WW), social acceptance (SW) and physical limitation (RW) to block their way. Life is never easy. Life is hard. But life is what YOU make of it. Life is not about being totally rich (it would be nice) or have everything you want, but it is about personal fulfillment. Even in the 2011, there are many women still "stuck" in the role they are in now. They let the system (glass ceiling) block their progress. They let their partner talk down on them (intentionally or unintentionally). Their co-worker, their friends, their spouse, their family, you name it, there are so many people help keep the women down where they are. There are few women who go beyond and pursue their dream and goals. It can be anything, you have all the weapon (tools) you need to do it.
You can call me crazy, and maybe I'm reading too much into it, but when my wife said that this movie suppose to "empowered" women and she didn't see it at first, but when we sit down and actually thought about it, it kinda does in their own way.
You may or probably not going to agree with me and disregard this wall-o-text, but that is what I think.
So what do we got?
First the basic premise of the movie is this. Everyone has a Guardian angel. This angel might be a neighbor, friend, strangers, or just a voice inside your head. The guardian angel will help you in a time of need.
Meaning? It means then when you are down in the dumps, a situation, a person, or a vision might come to you to help you guide you to a better situation. This movie? it is about Babydoll being Sweetpea's guardian angel.
Second, the movie is trying to make a really boring escape from a mental institution a bit more interesting. I mean sure you can have a person who is "crazy" (babydoll) and trying to seduce each target to get what she needs to escape, but that is kinda boring. So they change "seduce" into a "dance" now that is what I got from it. What kind of dance? that is up to your imagination. The action scene is just a third level on making a mundane action into a fun thing to watch.
Third, the movie does project "some" women empowerment. I will get more into it as I describe what I saw.
The movie world.
We have three different perception/realities
The real world (RW): it is a mental institution. The world is bland and well, evil. Life is like that. Life is hard. Life is never about giving a person a chance. We learn this when Babydoll was attempted to be attacked by her step father and later the step father was trying to attack babydoll's sister. Why? he is a bastard, he also wasn't getting the inheritance from the marriage. Babydoll was trying to protect her sister and end up killing her
also the step father wanted the money so put babydoll in an institution and have her lobotomized. nice eh? The sad part is that, being the real world, that happen all the time and some people get away with it (the step father did)The Sexy World (SW) : this basically is to draw on the men to watch it. Who doesn't like scantly clad women in a Burlesque type show. This world shows that if a women want to get somewhere, they have to be sexy. Well that is what people think the message is, but what it REALLY is that the women (the dancers) are really trapping themselves into that role. They think this is all there is. They think they are limited by what the world gives them. This world is "your perception" of the world. You make what you want of it. you can make your boring lives a lot more exciting via your own perception. You can make the difference if you choose to. This world shows that the women are "slaves" to the orderly BUT that is true because they only perceive it to be. Even the doctor (who in the real world is in charge), thinks she is "under" the orderly (my interpretation) (1)
The war world (WW): This is your sub conscious or your "soul" "inner thoughts" "your mind" What ever you may call it, this is where the real battle is about. This is where you think about the things you want to do, what you could do, you fight with your inner self to achieve your goal. The director/story writer made the actual sequence/result from this world. Why? cause it is easy that to show what a person try to do, and then show the real world and switch back? nah. too boring. It is better to let your imagination figure out what REALLY happen. (2)
(1) In any institution (pun intended) there is always someone who seems to "runs the show" It may not be the actual person in charge. The orderly seems to be doing a lot on the inside. He knows the ins and outs of the place and can make things happen. This is true in the real world. You be surprise how a person in certain position can seem to influence people or "make things happen" like an office. You have bosses come and go, but who usually are around (well most of the time) it is the office assistance, or a clerk, or something who knows what is what. They actually have more power than the CEO (again, perception)
(2) the exception was when sweetpea was trying to steal the knife and Rocket got killed. It was a touching moment, but not as awesome when you saw on the train where it was a choice/sacrifice of the younger sister save her older sister (launching her out of the train before it explodes = jumping in front of the butcher and took a stabbing for her older sister)
So. That is fine and dandy Chibi, where in the world is the women empowerment?
In the War World (WW), Babydoll met up with an old man (who is Babydoll's angel) told her that she had ALL weapons in the world to help her. It is figurative in terms that she has all the smarts to do it, but she project them as actual weapon. The battles she fought was actually using tools she had (sexual, psychological, or physical) to achieve her goals. The goals was to escape. She needed help. She saw the way and she need others to help her.
There was a scene where the Orderly found out (I forgot his name) or thinks he found out and try to scare the girls BACK into their submissive roles, but the women did not back down (after a small scene) Figure the will not take it anymore and move on.
In the end, where Babydoll was telling Sweetpea that she was the strongest only because Babydoll was Sweetpea's guardian angel. Babydoll knows that she can't fight against the situation she got herself in. The Orderly saw to that by order a lobotomize on Babydoll BUT Babydoll knows that she can do what she can NOW and then "dream" in peace (hence the last smile which freak the doctor out)
The story was actually Sweetpea, but it was twisted to start with Babydoll. Interesting twist. I didn't like it, but that was the director's choice.
So, what is the basic message.
Everyone has all the weapon they need to achieve the goals in life. This can mean almost anything really. It can mean that you have the capability to do anything if you put your mind to it. For a long time (men's fault) been putting down women or try to "stick them" into roles for a long while. Women as just as smart, talented, and some say better than men, but they let their perception (WW), social acceptance (SW) and physical limitation (RW) to block their way. Life is never easy. Life is hard. But life is what YOU make of it. Life is not about being totally rich (it would be nice) or have everything you want, but it is about personal fulfillment. Even in the 2011, there are many women still "stuck" in the role they are in now. They let the system (glass ceiling) block their progress. They let their partner talk down on them (intentionally or unintentionally). Their co-worker, their friends, their spouse, their family, you name it, there are so many people help keep the women down where they are. There are few women who go beyond and pursue their dream and goals. It can be anything, you have all the weapon (tools) you need to do it.
You can call me crazy, and maybe I'm reading too much into it, but when my wife said that this movie suppose to "empowered" women and she didn't see it at first, but when we sit down and actually thought about it, it kinda does in their own way.
You may or probably not going to agree with me and disregard this wall-o-text, but that is what I think.
I honestly can't respond to most of the wall of text since I haven't seen the movie (and am not really tempted in a car-crash way), but the idea that men can't know anything about female empowerment and feminist issues is bullshit.
C
Chibibar
Well. I agree (that is BS!). There are some people who say, if a person who can't experience certain thing, can't really give "advice" about it.
Some people believe that:
If you are not a parent, you can't give parenting advice.
If you are not of that sex, you can't really know what is going on emotionally, psychologically, or physically.
If you haven't been raise from a broken home, you don't know what kind of life they lived.
If you never been <insert situation>, how can you understand that person?
There are people who actually believe this. I don't. I think people with empathy can imagine what life is like or even grasp the concept of it.
If you are not a parent, you can't give parenting advice.
If you are not of that sex, you can't really know what is going on emotionally, psychologically, or physically.
If you haven't been raise from a broken home, you don't know what kind of life they lived.
If you never been <insert situation>, how can you understand that person?
There are people who actually believe this. I don't. I think people with empathy can imagine what life is like or even grasp the concept of it.
Shannow
Staff member
Easily in the running for the worst fucking movie of the year, and there is some real shit out there. Worst I have seen so far, at least. Fuck, even the alcohol I had with me did not make this steaming pile any better. Uuuuuggggggggh.
This movie was just fucking dogshit all around. My only solace was not only was the theater less than 1/5th full on a Saturday opening weekend, and most people in there had the same reaction to it that we did.
This movie was just fucking dogshit all around. My only solace was not only was the theater less than 1/5th full on a Saturday opening weekend, and most people in there had the same reaction to it that we did.
Those are the BEST kind of theatre experiences. Hot Fuzz and Scott Pilgrim vs. The World are among my best movie going experiences.
I wish I could say that about Scott Pilgrim--my favorite movie of 2010, and we were the only people in the theater... so I guess technically I DID have that experience, but it was only one other person having the same reaction as me.
Chibi: Alright, I can see where you're coming from with that analysis. I don't agree entirely, but I can see your point. However:
1. I never felt Snyder made this movie to be about female empowerment. I was just noting that some of its viewers were seeing it as a movie about female empowerment.
2. I highly doubt most, if any of them, put that kind of thought into it beyond "girls with guns wooo".
Chibi: Alright, I can see where you're coming from with that analysis. I don't agree entirely, but I can see your point. However:
1. I never felt Snyder made this movie to be about female empowerment. I was just noting that some of its viewers were seeing it as a movie about female empowerment.
2. I highly doubt most, if any of them, put that kind of thought into it beyond "girls with guns wooo".
There's a real fucking surprise. You're all over this thread commenting on how shitty the movie is without having even seen it.
To be fair I don't need to see an Uwe Boll movie to know it's going to be terrible. I'm not saying Snyder = Boll, just that it is possible to know something is probably going to suck without seeing it (especially if we are going off personal tastes here). I mean, I KNEW Transformers 2 was going to be one of the worst films ever made way before I drank a bottle of vodka and watched it.There's a real fucking surprise. You're all over this thread commenting on how shitty the movie is without having even seen it.
This isn't directed at anyone here, but I just have to say that I'm tired of people HATING this movie to the point that they're getting mad at people who DO like it. Sure, hate a movie, but I feel like some people hate Snyder so much that they just want to hate the movie going into it. My friend got facebook un-friended (yeah, yeah, ha ha) today because someone got so upset that she liked the movie. This friend argued with her, deleted her comments, and then wrote her a parting message basically saying "Fine, whatever, can't stand you anyway. Have a good life." Really??
Bah, just had to vent. Just annoyed. And again, I'm not directing this at anyone here.
And on another note, some of those bad reviews are really hilarious.
Bah, just had to vent. Just annoyed. And again, I'm not directing this at anyone here.
And on another note, some of those bad reviews are really hilarious.
@Heatherling: to be clear, having paid to see several Uwe Boll films in the theater I can't in any way look down on anyone who enjoyed a movie like SuckerPunch. Doesn't mean I think it looks good, but in the end, you know, it's just a movie. 
Of course once upon a time "how do you like your steak" was just a question around here...
Of course once upon a time "how do you like your steak" was just a question around here...
Itt doesn't matter if it's 300, Watchmen, or Sucker Punch, you can expect several things from Snyder's style:
1) Slow mo
2) Unrealistic explosions
3) Comic book physics
4) Girls (or guys) wearing small amounts of cloth instead of clothing
5) Emotions to the EXXXTREEEEEEEEME!
6) 80s and 90s music montages
Considering all three of those came from comic books (I'm leaving off Dawn of the Dead and Legends of the Guardians) , it makes sense that the action would be comic-booky. Even the acting isn't terrible in his movies, I think Gerard Butler was pitch perfect in 300 and Jackie Earle Haley was rediscovered thanks to Watchmen.
Compare and contrast to Uwe Boll movies, where the acting, action, cinematography, editing are all universally terrible.
Stylistically, it's like Woody Allen movies. You know that it's going to be 'witty', a little creepy and not funny to the "football in the groin" crowd, but it doesn't make them bad movies.
Now the Coens - they make bad movies.
Thats what I'm talking about. One's personal tastes define what kind of pre-concieved notions (and the impressions of those they trust) they will carry into their view of a film, seen or unseen.
Of course that doesn't make it okay to "hate" anyone who likes a movie you dislike, but it does make it okay to have a difference of opinion, even a strong one.
Of course that doesn't make it okay to "hate" anyone who likes a movie you dislike, but it does make it okay to have a difference of opinion, even a strong one.
I hate your opinion, and you by extension! This conversation...is OVER! *slow mo dive as a huge explosion wipes out Soon-Yi, who was dressed as a catholic schoolgirl wearing MP40s as earrings*
Can't deny it. This is impressive.
This makes me feel lazy, lazy, lazy. Also, they're all petite girls like myself and I can't even do one proper pull up...
Wish I could randomly bring up in a conversation that I can dead lift 235 lbs!
This makes me feel lazy, lazy, lazy. Also, they're all petite girls like myself and I can't even do one proper pull up...
Wish I could randomly bring up in a conversation that I can dead lift 235 lbs!
Shannow
Staff member
It is what we do....go read the transformer 2 thread from when that fucking travesty of a movie came out.This isn't directed at anyone here, but I just have to say that I'm tired of people HATING this movie to the point that they're getting mad at people who DO like it. Sure, hate a movie, but I feel like some people hate Snyder so much that they just want to hate the movie going into it. My friend got facebook un-friended (yeah, yeah, ha ha) today because someone got so upset that she liked the movie. This friend argued with her, deleted her comments, and then wrote her a parting message basically saying "Fine, whatever, can't stand you anyway. Have a good life." Really??
Bah, just had to vent. Just annoyed. And again, I'm not directing this at anyone here.
And on another note, some of those bad reviews are really hilarious.
I actually think this movie is worse than that, but I am not quite as angry, becasue at least this one tanked hard and didnt make a shit ton of money. At least the idiots didnt flock in droves and go out and praise this one.
C
Chibibar
I actually like Transformer 2. It was different. It is not a great film and the story was cheesy, but I don't think it was that "bad"
I have never let a director or who act in the film make me pre-judge any movie. If the preview looks interesting, then I will go see it. Sometimes I catch them on-demand or netflix instant queue and check it out or even cable.
I have never let a director or who act in the film make me pre-judge any movie. If the preview looks interesting, then I will go see it. Sometimes I catch them on-demand or netflix instant queue and check it out or even cable.
Shannow
Staff member
I went in to Sucker Punch with even expectations. I did not go in thinking this would be terrible, or great. I saw it, and it was fucking horrid and boring. May as well have been a demo reel with a shit story built around it that made no sense and jsut got worse and worse as the movie progressed on.
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