Telling off a student

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The worst I've seen for being transitioned out was at WaMu 7 years ago. We were working an insanely busy call center for consumer lending, and we'd been under a hiring freeze for months. Things were going poorly - no new employees except contractors, a new software suite that was failing badly, and it was the middle of the refi-boom of '03-'04 so we had a huge influx of new loans to service, software that couldn't hack it, and nowhere near enough employees to service all of these new loans. We'd gone from an average hold time of 2mins with an SLA of 97% before the software change to an average hold time of 3hrs with an SLA of 0% immediately following the software roll out - this thing just couldn't do shit, it was marking people as delinquent when they were paying their loans and lines on time, denying funds to people with over a million dollars available on their HELOCs, canceling credit cards, you name it.

Anyway, the call center was open from 6am to 7pm, and we had 200+ people in queue at 6am when we got to work, and sometimes in excess of 100 people still in queue at 7 when we closed, which the closing teams had to stay and take care of, but were then being disciplined for having too much OT on their paychecks. That stopped when someone was fired for clearing the queue in 2 minutes by just picking up and hanging up until the calls were gone. So April rolls around and we're pretty used to massive queues and no time between calls, but we come in one morning and there are no calls in queue. None. There's nothing holding, the SLA is 99% and the average hold time is 30sec. We log on to our computers and everyone has an email from corporate that there are going to be conference calls throughout the day and each one will involve several teams, no one is allowed to talk about what was said during the call to anyone who hasn't been in one yet, etc.

Our team's call wasn't until 1pm or so, and we get in there and hear that they're shutting down this call center and moving to a different location (which had already started taking the call volume from us that morning) that was 22.5 miles away. Now, 22.5 miles isn't that far. It's a little less that what I commute one way now, but most of the people working at that call center were already commuting for an hour or more to get to work, and the way the new call center was situated from the old one would have added about 90 minutes for most of us, so for 90% of the staff transitioning to the new location was completely out of the question. Problem was, WaMu had a policy that unless they moved your job 25 miles or more away from you, you weren't due any sort of severence package or assistance finding a new position within the company or anything nice like that. If you didn't decide to move to the new location, it was termed as a voluntary quit and you were just S.O.L. One of my buddies and I had lunch right after the meeting ended and walked the two blocks to Pike Place Brewery for some beers and burgers and came back half sloshed.

It backfired for WaMu though, they thought they were going to get the cream of the crop from our location to go to the new location and train all of the new reps, but they got a grand total of 10 transfers. The rest of us just worked until the center closed down and left the company.
 
Heh, the worst layoff I ever got was in 2000. This was when I was making "internet money". Just a couple of weeks prior, we'd been assured that we had funding to last at least 18 more months.

So, one week before my son is born, I get a phone call on Friday saying "Well, you're not getting paid today. We're out of money. Good luck."

Nice.
This just happened to a friend of mine. He's been holding off on job-hunting while hoping that they get their funding sorted out (he really liked his job), but I'm trying to tell him to just apply to everything that's in the ballpark salary range, since he can always turn w/e offer down if the company rights itself.
 
Not a quitting story, but some stories about the same obnoxious student.

Last May, after finals were done, the night before the professors were supposed to turn in grades, at 9:30pm (the college library closed at 10) a student comes in, needing to find a subject for her English Composition II research paper (which for most Comp II classes is about 3 weeks late already). She needed a poet that we had lots of information on - specifically, she wanted "a biography, a book of literary criticisms, and a reader's guide." We don't have all of those for all but a few authors. Many authors, we just have a sampling of their work. So I point her to Allen Ginsberg, since we have a ton of information on him. "Never heard of him." Three other poets - Whitman, Dickinson, William Carlos Williams - get the same result. Finally I go, "Okay, just do the paper on Maya Angelou. Your professor's already read ten or twelve papers on her this semester, we have probably 20 books by or about her." She sighs, and goes, "Fine, whatever." She looks on the shelf, grabs one of her books and says, "Oh, this one's pink, it must be good!" Looks at the cover, and says, "EWW, She's BLACK?!" I said, "Uh, yeah, she's probably the most famous african-american poet of the 20th century." (personally, I liked the work of the late Lucille Clifton better, but that's just a matter of taste) Obnoxious student goes, "Well, I'm not reading about growing up in a jungle! Find me something that's actually written in English!" I eventually found her a copy of Liar's Club by Mary Karr, which she returned two months late and in August decided to do her paper on Robert Frost.

While working on the Frost paper, she was using our online resources - Literature Resource Center is an academic database we're subscribed to. She was looking for criticisms on one of Frost's poems, and complaining she couldn't find anything. Now, Robert Frost is probably one of THE most analyzed poets in American Literature. So I check her results for literary criticisms, of poetry, by Robert Frost. 1537 results. I said, "There's over 1500 results here." And she goes, "Yeah, but, like, I only need five." So I say, "Well, there's 20 on this front page, you could look through them and pick the five that best cover what you're going for." She sneers and says, "Well thanks for nothing."

Yesterday she comes in at 5:30 and asks if she can use our copy of the Public Speaking textboook. I say, "Yes, we've got it on reserve. Reserve texts have to stay in the library though." She goes, "Well, what if I bring it back on Thursday?" I said, "You can't bring back something that doesn't leave." She goes, "I'm not staying here to study," like it was the stupidest thing she'd ever heard. I say, "I'm sorry, but we don't lend out reserve books. They're on reserve so people can use them here." She goes, "Fine!" and stomps off.

20 minutes later, Dean Summit comes in and tells me the girl's filed a complaint of sexual harassment against me, and says I told her that I would only allow her to take out a book if she performed a sexual act for me. I'm really glad that there were other people around, because everyone the Dean asked said her story was a lie. If I had been alone, I don't know how I would have proven my innocence. Afterwards the Dean said that she was surprised to hear that kind of complaint against me, and that it wasn't the first time that student had tried that tactic.

TL;DR version: Obnoxious ignorant students are a pain in the ass.
 
I want that story to end with "... and a few months later I found out she was expelled." Please tell me that's how the story ends.
 
These are college students, right Null? How the fuck did people get to college age being that fucking entitled and not forget to breathe at some point in their lives? Thank God she's the exception to the rule.

... She is the exception to the rule, isn't she? Most college students aren't that bad?
 
20 minutes later, Dean Summit comes in and tells me the girl's filed a complaint of sexual harassment against me, and says I told her that I would only allow her to take out a book if she performed a sexual act for me. I'm really glad that there were other people around, because everyone the Dean asked said her story was a lie. If I had been alone, I don't know how I would have proven my innocence. Afterwards the Dean said that she was surprised to hear that kind of complaint against me, and that it wasn't the first time that student had tried that tactic.

TL;DR version: Obnoxious ignorant students are a pain in the ass.
I was nodding my head until I got to this part. :eek: The thought of this happening terrifies me.
Added at: 14:30
These are college students, right Null? How the fuck did people get to college age being that fucking entitled and not forget to breathe at some point in their lives? Thank God she's the exception to the rule.

... She is the exception to the rule, isn't she? Most college students aren't that bad?
Most are not. Enough are to raise an eyebrow.
 
I am okay with students asking for favors/extra (heck, I'd call that a necessary life lesson), but getting upset with the askee for not getting that extra really pisses me off.
 
Oh yeah, being willing to ask for help/clarification/assistance, and knowing how to ask are two of the most important things I've learned in my life to date. They've saved me countless hours of frustration and saved me from having to redo projects that I would have done wrong the first time if I hadn't asked for clarification before starting them; but the student in that story is frightening in her ignorance/laziness/entitlement. Of course, I'd like to think that if I'd been in her shoes I would have picked Ginsberg, Whitman, Dickinson, Williams or Angelou, and I'd like to think that I would be smart enough to do the research on my own - but I dropped out of college 10 years ago before I got to any really challenging classes, so we'll never know.
 
C

Chibibar

I use to remember when I have to do my own research paper via card catalog!! yeesh kids these days.
 
Wait, you mean libraries don't use the card catalog system anymore? Jeebus, it's worse than I thought.
 
So did I man, so did I. I remember the filing cabinets with the tiny little card sized drawers that were 3 or 4 feet deep. Knowing how to work that system made writing term papers so much easier - especially since we were still in Internet 1.0 back then and Wikipedia didn't exist (not that I'd really recommend using Wikipedia as a term paper source). If we wanted to get computerized encyclopedia information, we had to rely on Encarta, and it was horrible. Give me the card catalog system and a well stocked university library any day of the week.
 
Not a quitting story, but some stories about the same obnoxious student.

Last May, after finals were done, the night before the professors were supposed to turn in grades, at 9:30pm (the college library closed at 10) a student comes in, needing to find a subject for her English Composition II research paper (which for most Comp II classes is about 3 weeks late already). She needed a poet that we had lots of information on - specifically, she wanted "a biography, a book of literary criticisms, and a reader's guide." We don't have all of those for all but a few authors. Many authors, we just have a sampling of their work. So I point her to Allen Ginsberg, since we have a ton of information on him. "Never heard of him." Three other poets - Whitman, Dickinson, William Carlos Williams - get the same result. Finally I go, "Okay, just do the paper on Maya Angelou. Your professor's already read ten or twelve papers on her this semester, we have probably 20 books by or about her." She sighs, and goes, "Fine, whatever." She looks on the shelf, grabs one of her books and says, "Oh, this one's pink, it must be good!" Looks at the cover, and says, "EWW, She's BLACK?!" I said, "Uh, yeah, she's probably the most famous african-american poet of the 20th century." (personally, I liked the work of the late Lucille Clifton better, but that's just a matter of taste) Obnoxious student goes, "Well, I'm not reading about growing up in a jungle! Find me something that's actually written in English!" I eventually found her a copy of Liar's Club by Mary Karr, which she returned two months late and in August decided to do her paper on Robert Frost.

While working on the Frost paper, she was using our online resources - Literature Resource Center is an academic database we're subscribed to. She was looking for criticisms on one of Frost's poems, and complaining she couldn't find anything. Now, Robert Frost is probably one of THE most analyzed poets in American Literature. So I check her results for literary criticisms, of poetry, by Robert Frost. 1537 results. I said, "There's over 1500 results here." And she goes, "Yeah, but, like, I only need five." So I say, "Well, there's 20 on this front page, you could look through them and pick the five that best cover what you're going for." She sneers and says, "Well thanks for nothing."

Yesterday she comes in at 5:30 and asks if she can use our copy of the Public Speaking textboook. I say, "Yes, we've got it on reserve. Reserve texts have to stay in the library though." She goes, "Well, what if I bring it back on Thursday?" I said, "You can't bring back something that doesn't leave." She goes, "I'm not staying here to study," like it was the stupidest thing she'd ever heard. I say, "I'm sorry, but we don't lend out reserve books. They're on reserve so people can use them here." She goes, "Fine!" and stomps off.

20 minutes later, Dean Summit comes in and tells me the girl's filed a complaint of sexual harassment against me, and says I told her that I would only allow her to take out a book if she performed a sexual act for me. I'm really glad that there were other people around, because everyone the Dean asked said her story was a lie. If I had been alone, I don't know how I would have proven my innocence. Afterwards the Dean said that she was surprised to hear that kind of complaint against me, and that it wasn't the first time that student had tried that tactic.

TL;DR version: Obnoxious ignorant students are a pain in the ass.
And that girl grew up to be, you guessed it, Governor of Alaska.
 
I want that story to end with "... and a few months later I found out she was expelled." Please tell me that's how the story ends.
It isn't, or at least, not yet. That last bit happened last night. I have no reason to believe that she will be penalized in any fashion.

Re: Dewey Decimal System - it is still in use, mostly by public libraries. Academic libraries are largely using Library Congress cataloging now. Some libraries have both (Dewey for older books, LC for newer).
 
I miss having a reason to be in an academic library. Public libraries are ok, I guess, but they're so full of nervous energy from all the kids who are straining to stay quiet and/or just being out of control brats. But give me a nice, quiet academic library and a selection of books to search through any day of the week and I'd be happy - though I'd be doubly happy if it was late Autumn with very few leaves left on the trees, bone chillingly cold and damp, with a hint of fog wisping across campus or mid-Winter with snow up to my knees and a howling windstorm raging outside.

Damn, I miss college. Anyone want to pay for me to go back to school full time for the rest of my life? Alternatively, anyone want to hire me to be an academic researcher?
 
I miss having a reason to be in an academic library. Public libraries are ok, I guess, but they're so full of nervous energy from all the kids who are straining to stay quiet and/or just being out of control brats. But give me a nice, quiet academic library and a selection of books to search through any day of the week and I'd be happy - though I'd be doubly happy if it was late Autumn with very few leaves left on the trees, bone chillingly cold and damp, with a hint of fog wisping across campus or mid-Winter with snow up to my knees and a howling windstorm raging outside.

Damn, I miss college. Anyone want to pay for me to go back to school full time for the rest of my life? Alternatively, anyone want to hire me to be an academic researcher?
You help me write a grant and we'll put some money in it for ya. ;)
 
When I quit my last job, I didn't really do anything big or wild. It was a call center job I had been at for the last 8 years and I really hated it. Well, the company decided to move the center from here in South Carolina to Georgia, just outside Atlanta. My manager had told us they would be sending a group of us down ahead of time to help train all the newbies they'd be hiring. I was one of the few offered an assistance package and I was offered it exactly one week after they announced the move and oh yeah, he needed my answer by the very next day. Well, I figured that meant they wanted me to be one of those guys to train the newbies. I then talked to my friends and found out that most of them were going to be fired, no chance to move at all and no chance at moving to a different position. Plus, the area they'd be moving to had a higher cost of living (despite what they claimed of it being equal to here in SC), but not giving us any cost of living raises. So, I decided not to go.

The only other friend that was not going to be fired decided not to move and then was actively persecuted by management by being shifted around between 3-4 different teams on a daily and sometimes even hourly basis. Other things also began to arise. Like a coworker who was given the opportunity to move back up north where his and his wife's family both are and was given access to a website to help him with the long move. The website happened to have a page on pets, stating in a round about way that most pets "don't make" a long move and proceeded to give 2 helpful links. The first was to a pet euthanasia service, the second to a pet adoption service. I'll let your mind wrap around that one for a bit.

Almost at the very end of my time there, I was approached by the VP of the center (the very highest muck on the big mucky-muck list at our site) and asked if I would stay an extra week to help with the transition. It took all I had to not laugh in his face.

Since leaving, I have heard of other things that have happened to the company. They include,
* increased workload such that people are putting in mandatory OT in order to cover everything
* sick days have been reworked so that you now have a total of 6, on the 5th you are given a verbal warning, on the 6th you are given a final warning, on the 7th you are fired

I'm sure there's other stuff, but I can't remember right now and don't care to sit here pondering that time too much.
 
These are college students, right Null? How the fuck did people get to college age being that fucking entitled and not forget to breathe at some point in their lives? Thank God she's the exception to the rule.

... She is the exception to the rule, isn't she? Most college students aren't that bad?

HAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA! Seriously, I've had a few kids role though my class that I'm surprised can put their pants on the right way.
Added at: 19:48
So did I man, so did I. I remember the filing cabinets with the tiny little card sized drawers that were 3 or 4 feet deep. Knowing how to work that system made writing term papers so much easier - especially since we were still in Internet 1.0 back then and Wikipedia didn't exist (not that I'd really recommend using Wikipedia as a term paper source). If we wanted to get computerized encyclopedia information, we had to rely on Encarta, and it was horrible. Give me the card catalog system and a well stocked university library any day of the week.

Yep, no longer. Not for a while actually. I think most academic libraries have been on fully computer based databases since 1998 though... I honestly have no clue how scientists did research before the advent of pubmed, sciencedirect, ExPASy, and PDB.

And yes, I remember using Encarta for my sixth and seventh grade term papers, lol.
Added at: 19:51
I... I'd just like to be able to go to college, period. ;_;

I still have nightmares that involve me forgetting to attend a class for an entire semester and showing up for the final exam; learning that I have zeros for every other assignment in the class. I loved the social aspect of college, but I can do without stressing over my grades.
 
I still have nightmares that involve me forgetting to attend a class for an entire semester and showing up for the final exam; learning that I have zeros for every other assignment in the class. I loved the social aspect of college, but I can do without stressing over my grades.
My aunt is over 50, hasn't been to college since before I was born, and still occasionally has one of those nightmares. Like it never goes away.
 
I never really burned any bridges, not yet anyway. Nearing the end of my time working at a DirecTV call center, I sure jacked with some asshole customers though. It most likely led to them screaming at some other poor soul, but I was so sick of dealing with chumps. I actually had a schmuck threaten to choke me if I didn't get the Sopranos on for him. I let him know that I have his credit card #, SSN, address, and asked if he still wanted to choke me. He asked to speak to my supervisor for threatening him! I transferred him to our Spanish-support center.

I haven't yelled at a student, but I feel like it is in my near future. I've given some stern lectures to some point-grubbing asshats though. They were nit-picking over essentially 1/1000 of their grade. Ugh.
 
About Null's story... I sure as hell hope that girl got expelled. Using false sexual harassment complaints is a horrible and vile thing for someone to do. The only thing worse is an false assault claim and if someone is willing to pull this kind of crap they aren't that far from pulling other stuff as well. Was there ANY punishment for her Null?
 
I swear I will devise a non-point grading system someday that isn't deemed utterly subjective.
That's... almost logical.

Honestly, the more "perfectly objective" the grading system is, the less room they have to complain, and whether it uses points or some other final tally method will be irrelevant.

In the hard sciences and engineering, it's easy - the answer is either right or wrong. Most often the professors would happily re-grade the whole assignment/test if you felt there was an error in the grading. They could usually find several areas where they went too easy on you, re-graded to the standard, thus lowering your overall score, even if you were right about the one error. One professor would only allow one re-grade, and a re-grade had to be requested within 7 days of getting the assignment/test back, which pretty much shut down the complaining-est students. "I see you are asking questions about how the test was graded. Are you requesting that I re-grade it?"

In the more subjective classes, though, this is harder to deal with.
 
About Null's story... I sure as hell hope that girl got expelled. Using false sexual harassment complaints is a horrible and vile thing for someone to do. The only thing worse is an false assault claim and if someone is willing to pull this kind of crap they aren't that far from pulling other stuff as well. Was there ANY punishment for her Null?
Not even a little. Yesterday at least 3 administrators* "Dropped by to see how I was doing" - ie trying to find out if there was either a reason they can get rid of me, and or finding out if I'm planning some legal recourse. From this I found out that this same student has two restraining orders on her from OTHER STUDENTS.

But naturally, that's not grounds for expulsion.

(Five visitors in total, but I'm not sure if two of them are technically administrators or not; our ToO is a bit muddled)
 
My aunt is over 50, hasn't been to college since before I was born, and still occasionally has one of those nightmares. Like it never goes away.
Yup, I often get those towards the end of the semester. In those dreams, I sit down for the final and then the professor asks for our second term paper that I hadn't heard about before. Everybody else in the class passes their paper up while I'm flipping through my syllabus, and then I find the assignment listed on the back of the last page. Then I realize that it's worth half my final grade. And at that point I wake up.
 
C

Chibibar

Not even a little. Yesterday at least 3 administrators* "Dropped by to see how I was doing" - ie trying to find out if there was either a reason they can get rid of me, and or finding out if I'm planning some legal recourse. From this I found out that this same student has two restraining orders on her from OTHER STUDENTS.

But naturally, that's not grounds for expulsion.

(Five visitors in total, but I'm not sure if two of them are technically administrators or not; our ToO is a bit muddled)
so let me get this straight.
this girl has two restraining order on HER from other student.
She lied about sexual harrassment
and the admin is trying to rid of YOU?
 
so let me get this straight.
this girl has two restraining order on HER from other student.
She lied about sexual harrassment
and the admin is trying to rid of YOU?
Yes. That's the simplest way of resolving the situation, apparently.

Of course, that's probably due, in part, to the fact that the college is already dealing with a number of lawsuits.
 
Not even a little. Yesterday at least 3 administrators* "Dropped by to see how I was doing" - ie trying to find out if there was either a reason they can get rid of me, and or finding out if I'm planning some legal recourse. From this I found out that this same student has two restraining orders on her from OTHER STUDENTS.

But naturally, that's not grounds for expulsion.

(Five visitors in total, but I'm not sure if two of them are technically administrators or not; our ToO is a bit muddled)
Holy shit dude. Yeah, I'd talk to a lawyer, sounds like the school is dropping that ball her big time and it almost severely impacted you.
 
Mind you, this is the same administration where the President is being sued for sexual harassment, and a suit for wrongful conduct - he stripped a department head of the title and pay rate without cause, but still demanded that said department head do all the work of a department head. That's a violation of apparently numerous contracts and agreements, and the arbitrator decided unanimously against the President on all counts, so that's still going to court.
 
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