Those slutty kids where totally asking for it...

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Yeah, that will sure stop paedophiles from acting on their urges:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-13601917

Parents have been advised not to dress their schoolchildren in short skirts and tight trousers amid fears they could be targeted by paedophiles.
The advice to families of children at King's Park Secondary School in Glasgow was sent out as part of new guidelines on dress codes.
Glasgow City Council confirmed the warning was linked to the recent conviction of a local paedophile.
The Scottish Parent Teacher Council said "shock tactics" were not needed.
In the letter to parents, the school states: "We believe that an appropriate school uniform (eg school trousers, knee-length school skirt etc) protects children from being targeted by sexual predators.
"There is recent evidence in the south of Glasgow of adults photographing school girls in short skirts and school girls/boys in tight trousers, then grooming them through the internet.
"We must do all we can to keep our children safe. A modest school uniform is more appropriate than fashion skirts, trousers or tops."
The letter advised parents to buy "appropriate" school uniforms from a list of approved items at Marks and Spencer.
A council spokeswoman said the choice of store was an advisory only, and was not intended as an advertisement for M&S.
The letter was sent to parents following the case of Barry McCluskey, 39, from King's Park.
The former nurse posed as a 14-year-old girl to entice children to perform sex acts in front of web cameras.
McCluskey pleaded guilty to 49 charges stretching back to 2003, including lewd and libidinous practices and behaviour, at the High Court in Glasgow in February.
The Scottish Parent Teacher Council said the letter to parents was not needed and unwise.
Chief executive Eileen Prior said: "Creating a link between school uniform and paedophilia seems to be a dangerous and unhelpful one for everyone involved.
"It implies that young people are in some way responsible for the activities of paedophiles, which is an extremely dangerous argument and one which has echoes of the comments sometimes made around rapists and women's dress.
"If there is evidence of activity by a paedophile in the area, then police and parents should be informed and involved."
She added: "Many parents - and indeed young people themselves - are keen to have a dress code in school which requires everyone in the school community to dress in a way which is appropriate for a working environment."
And i love that at the end... yes, little kids are totally into all dressing the same...
 
While dressing in a particular way cannot and should not be used as an excuse to attack anyone for any reason, are you honestly saying that schools should be fine with letting 8 year old children wear what is essentially a two piece swimsuit simply because their favorite pop star does it? (Yes, I'm using an extreme here because it readily makes my point - there's a huge gray area in the middle we could split hairs about, but the salient point is that we don't let kids go to school naked, so it doesn't matter where the line is, so much as we agree there's a line somewhere)

I don't think I have to google examples here.

Children don't need to be wearing clothing that emphasizes their sexuality. Schools have a reasonable right to set dress standards.

It's a little underhanded of them to promote their dress standards using scare tactics, but it's no different than parents do when they say, "Put a coat on or you'll catch your death of cold!"
 

Dave

Staff member
Kids interviewed in places where there are dress codes tend to vote for it and like it as it gets rid of the peer pressure of having the latest/newest/"hippest" clothes. Of course, there are those who do not like it, but I'd be willing to bet they are the douchebag kids who could afford the designer crap in the first place.

I'll try and find some studies to back up my statement.
 
M

makare

One halloween I chewed the manager of Walmart a good one over those absurd kid's costumes. They were all skimpy outfits. Some made sense, for adults anyway, along the theme of the costume like belly dancer (who the fuck is dressing their five year old daughter up as a belly dancer!?) but even the witch costume was midriff baring. It was ridiculous.
I do the same for the little girls clothes. Little girls do not need to wear a tight shirt that says Juicy on it. This is one of those subjects that just infuriates me. This adult imposed sexuality screws up the natural development of a child's own sexuality. And yeah children do have a sexuality it is very natural but it is not the same as an adult's and it certainly should not be.

grrr /rage
 
Hey look, everyone is on about little girls wearing two piece swimsuits when the article clearly includes skin tight clothes for boys too...

Sorry, but Toddlers and Tiara's is not a good argument for dressing up kids in burkas (only for wiping out humanity).

Kids interviewed in places where there are dress codes tend to vote for it and like it as it gets rid of the peer pressure of having the latest/newest/"hippest" clothes. Of course, there are those who do not like it, but I'd be willing to bet they are the douchebag kids who could afford the designer crap in the first place.
I for one hated the lemming dress, but it was communism made, so comfort might have been sacrificed...
 
who the fuck is dressing their five year old daughter up as a belly dancer!?
Er... I would. Because belly dancers are not "sluts". It's a very old women's dance form that only around the 19th century was noticed by Western men and turned into a sexual fetish. But women cannot live their lives by the yardstick of what men (or other women) think of an activity. If people want to believe belly dancing is the same as pole dancing in a strip club -- that's their prerogative. But it's not okay to shame women for participating in a dance that celebrates the female form (and is also a great form of low-impact exercise), or for enjoying the pretty costumes made for the dance. There are also male forms of belly dance -- are they sluts, too? How is dressing as a belly dancer any different than dressing in a leotard and tutu to be a ballerina? Considering how many yards of fabric that can go into a belly dancing costume, the ballerina costume is way more revealing. (I did a Google image search for girls' Belly Dance costumes, and they were all halter tops with harem pants or layered skirts -- OMG THOSE SLUTS!!!!!) </ peeved belly dancer rant >

Now can we please stop equating clothing choices with promiscuity and "asking for it"? You are not automatically a "slut" or "oversexualized" if your clothing (or costume) shows skin, and wearing frumpy clothing will not magically protect you from being sexually assaulted.

@Li3n said:
Hey look, everyone is on about little girls wearing two piece swimsuits when the article clearly includes skin tight clothes for boys too...
Silly alien, only girls can be oversexualized whores!
Boy wearing shorts and no shirt = happy, well-adjusted child enjoying the summer weather
Girl wearing halter top and shorts = oversexualized whore
 
M

makare

There is a difference between actually belly dancing and merely dressing a kid up as a belly dancer to trick or treat. Context is important. I certainly don't think that little girls who dress like belly dancers or even sexy witches are sluts. I doubt they even know that the outfits they are wearing are possible of sexualizing because they don't really know what sex is. That responsibility is the parents.

Just because it would be nice if there was no danger to dressing in a more provocative manner doesn't mean there isn't a danger to it. Yes, any person regardless of dress is potentially a victim of sexual assault. That doesn’t relieve a person of responsibility in how others might perceive him/her. It sucks but that is the reality. Just because we want it to be otherwise doesn’t mean it is. In a perfect world you would be able to walk down a dark alley with hundred dollar bills hanging out of your pants without someone robbing you. But it isn’t a perfect world and if anyone did that we would see them as incredibly irresponsible even though the robber is the actual person doing something wrong. The same is true for how you dress and act. In my opinion, which is of course what this all is, parents should be more cautious with their children because the risk is terrible.
 
So...we're all supposed to dress the same to make sure we're safer?

Look, I don't approve of dressing you 7 year old up to look like a cast member of the Jersey Shore. I also don't want to be the one saying to that same kid they shouldn't dress like that because of the way others perceive them. It's a tricky balance.

One the one hand, you want to protect your kid from harm...on the other hand you want them to have their own identity and part of that is gaining your own sense of style. Can you have one with out the other?

It's a mind bogglingly complex issue.
 
M

makare

Parents get to make their own decisions based on their situations and locations. My original point was that when places like walmart seem to sell nothing but those kinds of clothes they are making the choice for parents. Especially in places like where I live where most people shop at walmart. I went shopping for my niece and I couldn't find a single shirt that wasn't in some way suggestive. That is ridiculous. If parents want that for their kids I guess that is their prerogative but I sure don't want that for my niece and I resent not having options.

I finally had to order her costume off line because it was the only way I could get one that wasn't scanty. Not just for sexualization issues but also usually during halloween it is snowing and she doesnt need skin showing in the cold.
 
Blaming the victim is so fucking stupid.

I also agree with most all of Sara's points.

edit: also makare - yelling at a Wal*Mart manager won't really do anything, those decisions of what to sell are really far up the ladder, it would be far more effective to just never buy anything there again.
 
M

makare

Oh I've gotten a lot done yelling at the walmart guy. Our walmart is so stupid. The only other places to shop for clothes in town is K-Mart and well no thanks for that.

And I don't want to blame the victim. I want to encourage people to take assessment of what is going on and make choices that help them avoid being victims in the first place. Like I said it is a shitty world we live in but pretending otherwise doesn't help anyone.
 
Oh I've gotten a lot done yelling at the walmart guy. Our walmart is so stupid. The only other places to shop for clothes in town is K-Mart and well no thanks for that.

And I don't want to blame the victim. I want to encourage people to take assessment of what is going on and make choices that help them avoid being victims in the first place. Like I said it is a shitty world we live in but pretending otherwise doesn't help anyone.
Dressing kids in sexually suggestive ways helps the little pervert boys and pedophiles.
 
M

makare

pervy little boys maybe but not all pedophiles are attracted to children in adult situations. Some are attracted to little girls in flouncy dresses and mary janes. There is no protection clothes wise from pedophiles.
 
M

makare

hehe i was going to say something like that but i figured someone would respond "oh so thats what you think is necessary" or something.
 
Sara...I love you.
*high fives Forum Cthulhu*

"Belly dancers = sluts" is a huge peeve of mine. It comes from the same ridiculous attitude as "asking for it": The only possible reason a woman (or girl) could ever have for showing her body is sex, and an intent to give a man an erection. And anything a woman (or girl) does or wears that could trigger an erection must be shamed.

:rolleyes:

Now I'm going to hijack the thread with some dirty whore belly dancers. Warning: there are women's bare ankles visible in these videos. And also arms, necks, and *gasp* bellies. Those of a delicate constitution should skip them.





 
"Belly dancers = sluts" is a huge peeve of mine. It comes from the same ridiculous attitude as "asking for it": The only possible reason a woman (or girl) could ever have for showing her body is sex, and an intent to give a man an erection. And anything a woman (or girl) does or wears that could trigger an erection must be shamed.
Context is important.
This may well be appropriate for bellydancing, but it's not appropriate for school, or simply walking around the mall:



No one is saying that bellydancing outfits automatically make a girl a slut.

But context is important. The wrong clothes at the wrong time leave the wrong impression.

Wearing such an outfit on the street at dusk isn't "asking" for anything to happen, but one must admit that the chances of something happening are much larger than if they wear the appropriate clothing for the activity they are involved in.

In the same way that the "genderless child" couple is attempting to change societal norms, you can indeed wear, or not wear, whatever you want (within public indecency laws, I suppose) whenever you want wherever you want. It's going to take a lot of people, however, to get a school to say that the above outfit is appropriate dress for school activities.

You could take the time to write your local school board and lobby for such changes to the dress code, I suppose. I guess I don't see the point, but I was never one for playing dress up, so I don't suppose I will be able to understand what the point of showing off your midriff is. I always assumed it was to attract the attention of others, but perhaps there's a more important need that it fills, and we should be allowing our children to wear as little as they want to school.

:awesome: (the smiley is a partial apology for stepping over the line firmly into trolling territory and goading you. Sorry, but not enough to re-write the post...)
 
That's a lot of belly for the dancin. By "delicate constitution', do you mean 'motion sickness'?
MORE SECRETS!
Added at: 15:50
Hey Adam, thats just a classy dress for a little girl there. Icarus told me it was and he would know a thing or two about classy and little girls.
 
Ha! Sarcasm-hime... known her for a while.

I have tried several times to express how I feel about this matter without sounding overly pompous, and I'm not sure I can do it right now.

Bottom line is, I don't feel that children should be garbed in a manner that I don't find appropriate on teenagers ten years their elder, either. When they're of a legal majority, then by all means, let them dress how they care to (so long as they're not living under a disapproving parent's roof). But until that point, sensible garb.

You can dress sensibly without being in a sackcloth; by the same token, you can dress sexily without exposing a hint of excess skin. I honestly feel that the hyper-sexualization of modern society has left teens and pre-teens feeling that they can't feel good about themselves unless they look sexy. Combine this with bad parenting due to inattention or lack of effort and you result with the sort of children who I have to deal with on a daily basis, getting into fights at age 12 over ex-boyfriends sleeping with someone else.

I like to think of myself as pretty accepting of most things, and lacking of a great deal of puritanical mores. But in this matter, I prefer to err on the side of conservatism.
 
There is a difference between actually belly dancing and merely dressing a kid up as a belly dancer to trick or treat.
Is there a difference between performing ballet and merely dressing up in a leotard and tutu to trick-or-treat?

What if the child is actually learning belly dance? Is it okay then?

Just because it would be nice if there was no danger to dressing in a more provocative manner doesn't mean there isn't a danger to it.
So because males find belly dancers sexy, females must always frame belly dancing in this male perception and avoid belly dancing outside of private, female-only spaces to avoid being raped. Gotcha.

Not only is this the "she was asking for it" argument, but it's the exact excuse used to justify putting women into burqas and keeping them locked in their houses.
 
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