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Those slutty kids where totally asking for it...

#1

@Li3n

@Li3n

Yeah, that will sure stop paedophiles from acting on their urges:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-13601917

Parents have been advised not to dress their schoolchildren in short skirts and tight trousers amid fears they could be targeted by paedophiles.
The advice to families of children at King's Park Secondary School in Glasgow was sent out as part of new guidelines on dress codes.
Glasgow City Council confirmed the warning was linked to the recent conviction of a local paedophile.
The Scottish Parent Teacher Council said "shock tactics" were not needed.
In the letter to parents, the school states: "We believe that an appropriate school uniform (eg school trousers, knee-length school skirt etc) protects children from being targeted by sexual predators.
"There is recent evidence in the south of Glasgow of adults photographing school girls in short skirts and school girls/boys in tight trousers, then grooming them through the internet.
"We must do all we can to keep our children safe. A modest school uniform is more appropriate than fashion skirts, trousers or tops."
The letter advised parents to buy "appropriate" school uniforms from a list of approved items at Marks and Spencer.
A council spokeswoman said the choice of store was an advisory only, and was not intended as an advertisement for M&S.
The letter was sent to parents following the case of Barry McCluskey, 39, from King's Park.
The former nurse posed as a 14-year-old girl to entice children to perform sex acts in front of web cameras.
McCluskey pleaded guilty to 49 charges stretching back to 2003, including lewd and libidinous practices and behaviour, at the High Court in Glasgow in February.
The Scottish Parent Teacher Council said the letter to parents was not needed and unwise.
Chief executive Eileen Prior said: "Creating a link between school uniform and paedophilia seems to be a dangerous and unhelpful one for everyone involved.
"It implies that young people are in some way responsible for the activities of paedophiles, which is an extremely dangerous argument and one which has echoes of the comments sometimes made around rapists and women's dress.
"If there is evidence of activity by a paedophile in the area, then police and parents should be informed and involved."
She added: "Many parents - and indeed young people themselves - are keen to have a dress code in school which requires everyone in the school community to dress in a way which is appropriate for a working environment."
Click to expand...
And i love that at the end... yes, little kids are totally into all dressing the same...


#2

strawman

strawman

While dressing in a particular way cannot and should not be used as an excuse to attack anyone for any reason, are you honestly saying that schools should be fine with letting 8 year old children wear what is essentially a two piece swimsuit simply because their favorite pop star does it? (Yes, I'm using an extreme here because it readily makes my point - there's a huge gray area in the middle we could split hairs about, but the salient point is that we don't let kids go to school naked, so it doesn't matter where the line is, so much as we agree there's a line somewhere)

I don't think I have to google examples here.

Children don't need to be wearing clothing that emphasizes their sexuality. Schools have a reasonable right to set dress standards.

It's a little underhanded of them to promote their dress standards using scare tactics, but it's no different than parents do when they say, "Put a coat on or you'll catch your death of cold!"


#3

Dave

Dave

Kids interviewed in places where there are dress codes tend to vote for it and like it as it gets rid of the peer pressure of having the latest/newest/"hippest" clothes. Of course, there are those who do not like it, but I'd be willing to bet they are the douchebag kids who could afford the designer crap in the first place.

I'll try and find some studies to back up my statement.


#4

sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

Children under the age of 18 should not be sexualized period. Dress them appropriately.


#5



Chibibar

sixpackshaker said:
Children under the age of 18 should not be sexualized period. Dress them appropriately.
Click to expand...
I agree. I have been watching different Disney TV shows. Kids are being sexualize even on Disney. It is a sad sad world :(


#6



makare

One halloween I chewed the manager of Walmart a good one over those absurd kid's costumes. They were all skimpy outfits. Some made sense, for adults anyway, along the theme of the costume like belly dancer (who the fuck is dressing their five year old daughter up as a belly dancer!?) but even the witch costume was midriff baring. It was ridiculous.
I do the same for the little girls clothes. Little girls do not need to wear a tight shirt that says Juicy on it. This is one of those subjects that just infuriates me. This adult imposed sexuality screws up the natural development of a child's own sexuality. And yeah children do have a sexuality it is very natural but it is not the same as an adult's and it certainly should not be.

grrr /rage


#7

AshburnerX

AshburnerX

Somewhat relevant.



#8

@Li3n

@Li3n

Hey look, everyone is on about little girls wearing two piece swimsuits when the article clearly includes skin tight clothes for boys too...

Sorry, but Toddlers and Tiara's is not a good argument for dressing up kids in burkas (only for wiping out humanity).

Dave said:
Kids interviewed in places where there are dress codes tend to vote for it and like it as it gets rid of the peer pressure of having the latest/newest/"hippest" clothes. Of course, there are those who do not like it, but I'd be willing to bet they are the douchebag kids who could afford the designer crap in the first place.
Click to expand...
I for one hated the lemming dress, but it was communism made, so comfort might have been sacrificed...


#9

Sara_2814

Sara_2814

makare said:
who the fuck is dressing their five year old daughter up as a belly dancer!?
Click to expand...
Er... I would. Because belly dancers are not "sluts". It's a very old women's dance form that only around the 19th century was noticed by Western men and turned into a sexual fetish. But women cannot live their lives by the yardstick of what men (or other women) think of an activity. If people want to believe belly dancing is the same as pole dancing in a strip club -- that's their prerogative. But it's not okay to shame women for participating in a dance that celebrates the female form (and is also a great form of low-impact exercise), or for enjoying the pretty costumes made for the dance. There are also male forms of belly dance -- are they sluts, too? How is dressing as a belly dancer any different than dressing in a leotard and tutu to be a ballerina? Considering how many yards of fabric that can go into a belly dancing costume, the ballerina costume is way more revealing. (I did a Google image search for girls' Belly Dance costumes, and they were all halter tops with harem pants or layered skirts -- OMG THOSE SLUTS!!!!!) </ peeved belly dancer rant >

Now can we please stop equating clothing choices with promiscuity and "asking for it"? You are not automatically a "slut" or "oversexualized" if your clothing (or costume) shows skin, and wearing frumpy clothing will not magically protect you from being sexually assaulted.

@Li3n said:
Hey look, everyone is on about little girls wearing two piece swimsuits when the article clearly includes skin tight clothes for boys too...
Click to expand...
Silly alien, only girls can be oversexualized whores!
Boy wearing shorts and no shirt = happy, well-adjusted child enjoying the summer weather
Girl wearing halter top and shorts = oversexualized whore


#10

LittleSin

LittleSin

Sara...I love you.


#11



makare

There is a difference between actually belly dancing and merely dressing a kid up as a belly dancer to trick or treat. Context is important. I certainly don't think that little girls who dress like belly dancers or even sexy witches are sluts. I doubt they even know that the outfits they are wearing are possible of sexualizing because they don't really know what sex is. That responsibility is the parents.

Just because it would be nice if there was no danger to dressing in a more provocative manner doesn't mean there isn't a danger to it. Yes, any person regardless of dress is potentially a victim of sexual assault. That doesn’t relieve a person of responsibility in how others might perceive him/her. It sucks but that is the reality. Just because we want it to be otherwise doesn’t mean it is. In a perfect world you would be able to walk down a dark alley with hundred dollar bills hanging out of your pants without someone robbing you. But it isn’t a perfect world and if anyone did that we would see them as incredibly irresponsible even though the robber is the actual person doing something wrong. The same is true for how you dress and act. In my opinion, which is of course what this all is, parents should be more cautious with their children because the risk is terrible.


#12

LittleSin

LittleSin

So...we're all supposed to dress the same to make sure we're safer?

Look, I don't approve of dressing you 7 year old up to look like a cast member of the Jersey Shore. I also don't want to be the one saying to that same kid they shouldn't dress like that because of the way others perceive them. It's a tricky balance.

One the one hand, you want to protect your kid from harm...on the other hand you want them to have their own identity and part of that is gaining your own sense of style. Can you have one with out the other?

It's a mind bogglingly complex issue.


#13



makare

Parents get to make their own decisions based on their situations and locations. My original point was that when places like walmart seem to sell nothing but those kinds of clothes they are making the choice for parents. Especially in places like where I live where most people shop at walmart. I went shopping for my niece and I couldn't find a single shirt that wasn't in some way suggestive. That is ridiculous. If parents want that for their kids I guess that is their prerogative but I sure don't want that for my niece and I resent not having options.

I finally had to order her costume off line because it was the only way I could get one that wasn't scanty. Not just for sexualization issues but also usually during halloween it is snowing and she doesnt need skin showing in the cold.


#14

Charlie Don't Surf

Charlie Don't Surf

Blaming the victim is so fucking stupid.

I also agree with most all of Sara's points.

edit: also makare - yelling at a Wal*Mart manager won't really do anything, those decisions of what to sell are really far up the ladder, it would be far more effective to just never buy anything there again.


#15

sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

Dressing your child like a street walker and sending them out in public is even more stupid.


#16



makare

Oh I've gotten a lot done yelling at the walmart guy. Our walmart is so stupid. The only other places to shop for clothes in town is K-Mart and well no thanks for that.

And I don't want to blame the victim. I want to encourage people to take assessment of what is going on and make choices that help them avoid being victims in the first place. Like I said it is a shitty world we live in but pretending otherwise doesn't help anyone.


#17

sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

makare said:
Oh I've gotten a lot done yelling at the walmart guy. Our walmart is so stupid. The only other places to shop for clothes in town is K-Mart and well no thanks for that.

And I don't want to blame the victim. I want to encourage people to take assessment of what is going on and make choices that help them avoid being victims in the first place. Like I said it is a shitty world we live in but pretending otherwise doesn't help anyone.
Click to expand...
Dressing kids in sexually suggestive ways helps the little pervert boys and pedophiles.


#18



makare

pervy little boys maybe but not all pedophiles are attracted to children in adult situations. Some are attracted to little girls in flouncy dresses and mary janes. There is no protection clothes wise from pedophiles.


#19

Krisken

Krisken

Unless it is made of iron. Good 'ole iron chastity belts need to make a comeback!


#20



makare

hehe i was going to say something like that but i figured someone would respond "oh so thats what you think is necessary" or something.


#21

Krisken

Krisken

Cock rings for the boys, too. That'll learn 'em.


#22



makare

oh good lord.


#23

Espy

Espy

sixpackshaker said:
Dressing your child like a street walker and sending them out in public is even more stupid.
Click to expand...
Hey! I'm just trying to empower my kid here.


#24

Sara_2814

Sara_2814

LittleSin said:
Sara...I love you.
Click to expand...
*high fives Forum Cthulhu*

"Belly dancers = sluts" is a huge peeve of mine. It comes from the same ridiculous attitude as "asking for it": The only possible reason a woman (or girl) could ever have for showing her body is sex, and an intent to give a man an erection. And anything a woman (or girl) does or wears that could trigger an erection must be shamed.

:rolleyes:

Now I'm going to hijack the thread with some dirty whore belly dancers. Warning: there are women's bare ankles visible in these videos. And also arms, necks, and *gasp* bellies. Those of a delicate constitution should skip them.







#25



makare

I didn't see anyone refer to belly dancers as whores in any way.


#26

Krisken

Krisken

That's a lot of belly for the dancin. By "delicate constitution', do you mean 'motion sickness'?


#27

Espy

Espy

makare said:
I didn't see anyone refer to belly dancers as whores in any way.
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Oh you can't see it but it's hidden in Kriskens post about little boys and cock rings. Like a DaVinci Code thing.


#28



makare

Oh well I blocked that post right out of my head... right out!


#29

Espy

Espy

DAN BROWN IS DISAPPOINTED YOU WILL NEVER KNOW HIS SECRETS!!!!


#30

strawman

strawman

Sara_2814 said:
"Belly dancers = sluts" is a huge peeve of mine. It comes from the same ridiculous attitude as "asking for it": The only possible reason a woman (or girl) could ever have for showing her body is sex, and an intent to give a man an erection. And anything a woman (or girl) does or wears that could trigger an erection must be shamed.
Click to expand...
makare said:
Context is important.
Click to expand...
This may well be appropriate for bellydancing, but it's not appropriate for school, or simply walking around the mall:



No one is saying that bellydancing outfits automatically make a girl a slut.

But context is important. The wrong clothes at the wrong time leave the wrong impression.

Wearing such an outfit on the street at dusk isn't "asking" for anything to happen, but one must admit that the chances of something happening are much larger than if they wear the appropriate clothing for the activity they are involved in.

In the same way that the "genderless child" couple is attempting to change societal norms, you can indeed wear, or not wear, whatever you want (within public indecency laws, I suppose) whenever you want wherever you want. It's going to take a lot of people, however, to get a school to say that the above outfit is appropriate dress for school activities.

You could take the time to write your local school board and lobby for such changes to the dress code, I suppose. I guess I don't see the point, but I was never one for playing dress up, so I don't suppose I will be able to understand what the point of showing off your midriff is. I always assumed it was to attract the attention of others, but perhaps there's a more important need that it fills, and we should be allowing our children to wear as little as they want to school.

:awesome: (the smiley is a partial apology for stepping over the line firmly into trolling territory and goading you. Sorry, but not enough to re-write the post...)


#31

Espy

Espy

Krisken said:
That's a lot of belly for the dancin. By "delicate constitution', do you mean 'motion sickness'?
Click to expand...
MORE SECRETS!
Added at: 15:50
Hey Adam, thats just a classy dress for a little girl there. Icarus told me it was and he would know a thing or two about classy and little girls.


#32

strawman

strawman

Sara_2814 said:




Click to expand...

(actually I don't have time to watch them, but I've been itching to post this image macro for ages.)
((I only have time for self-important silly posts in which I see myself winning the argument every time.))


#33

Officer_Charon

Officer_Charon

Ha! Sarcasm-hime... known her for a while.

I have tried several times to express how I feel about this matter without sounding overly pompous, and I'm not sure I can do it right now.

Bottom line is, I don't feel that children should be garbed in a manner that I don't find appropriate on teenagers ten years their elder, either. When they're of a legal majority, then by all means, let them dress how they care to (so long as they're not living under a disapproving parent's roof). But until that point, sensible garb.

You can dress sensibly without being in a sackcloth; by the same token, you can dress sexily without exposing a hint of excess skin. I honestly feel that the hyper-sexualization of modern society has left teens and pre-teens feeling that they can't feel good about themselves unless they look sexy. Combine this with bad parenting due to inattention or lack of effort and you result with the sort of children who I have to deal with on a daily basis, getting into fights at age 12 over ex-boyfriends sleeping with someone else.

I like to think of myself as pretty accepting of most things, and lacking of a great deal of puritanical mores. But in this matter, I prefer to err on the side of conservatism.


#34

Sara_2814

Sara_2814

makare said:
There is a difference between actually belly dancing and merely dressing a kid up as a belly dancer to trick or treat.
Click to expand...
Is there a difference between performing ballet and merely dressing up in a leotard and tutu to trick-or-treat?

What if the child is actually learning belly dance? Is it okay then?

makare said:
Just because it would be nice if there was no danger to dressing in a more provocative manner doesn't mean there isn't a danger to it.
Click to expand...
So because males find belly dancers sexy, females must always frame belly dancing in this male perception and avoid belly dancing outside of private, female-only spaces to avoid being raped. Gotcha.

Not only is this the "she was asking for it" argument, but it's the exact excuse used to justify putting women into burqas and keeping them locked in their houses.


#35



makare

I was going to make an argument but since what I am actually saying doesn't seem to be coming into play here I'll just stick with this.


#36

Espy

Espy

Stop trying to put women in burqas Makare. Stop it right this instant.


#37



makare

but women's flesh is a sin and must be covered lest their evil seduction spell force men to rape them.


#38

Espy

Espy

It's a flawless argument.


#39

Krisken

Krisken


Or this?


#40

sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

she was dressed like a witch.


#41

Sara_2814

Sara_2814

Officer_Charon said:
You can dress sensibly without being in a sackcloth; by the same token, you can dress sexily without exposing a hint of excess skin. I honestly feel that the hyper-sexualization of modern society has left teens and pre-teens feeling that they can't feel good about themselves unless they look sexy. Combine this with bad parenting due to inattention or lack of effort and you result with the sort of children who I have to deal with on a daily basis, getting into fights at age 12 over ex-boyfriends sleeping with someone else.
Click to expand...
I think you have a good point. I was a teen in the 80s, and we had mini-skirts, painted-on jeans, Madonna-inspired fashion, etc. And people wore them to school. And it was no big deal. But we didn't have the hyper-sexualization that kids deal with today, which gives them very skewed self-image problems.

I think it's more important to worry about attitude than wardrobe. It's the decisions that kids make that get them in trouble, not their clothes. A mini-skirt or tight jeans does not make a kid go alone to meet someone they met on Facebook. Blaming clothing is just avoiding the real issues (because then you might have to start down the path of "Parental Responsibility").


#42

Mathias

Mathias

Charlie Don't Surf said:
Blaming the victim is so fucking stupid.

I also agree with most all of Sara's points.

edit: also makare - yelling at a Wal*Mart manager won't really do anything, those decisions of what to sell are really far up the ladder, it would be far more effective to just never buy anything there again.
Click to expand...
Yeah it will. You'll get laughed at in the back room when the manager tells the rest of the employees about the weirdo who just chewed her out over something that's completely out of their hands.
Added at: 17:29
makare said:
I was going to make an argument but since what I am actually saying doesn't seem to be coming into play here I'll just stick with this.
Click to expand...

Dude, you got schooled. Just take it with grace and move on.


#43



makare

No someone got schooled. Someone who said the things she was reacting to, but it wasn't me. I didn't say anything about sluts or whores and I certainly didn't say anything about belly dancers, or any any dancers, being sluts or whores. I guess instead of eye roll I guess facepalm would be more appropriate.


#44

Mathias

Mathias

makare said:
No someone got schooled. Someone who said the things she was reacting to, but it wasn't me. I didn't say anything about sluts or whores and I certainly didn't say anything about belly dancers, or any any dancers, being sluts or whores. I guess instead of eye roll I guess facepalm would be more appropriate.
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I dunno, I got the impression you were down the "won't someone think of the children" slope.
Added at: 17:38
And yes! WE GOTS US SOME FORUM DRAMA AGAINS! :popcorn:


#45

Krisken

Krisken

Dude.


#46

Mathias

Mathias

DUDE!



#47

Krisken

Krisken

Dude?


#48

strawman

strawman

Mathias said:
won't someone think of the children
Click to expand...
Pedophiles do.

:csi:


#49



makare

ok I lold and now I feel dirty. sigh.


#50

Krisken

Krisken

stienman said:
Pedophiles do.

:csi:
Click to expand...
Dude!


#51



makare

now buff your balls


#52

sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

You don't fuck with De-Jesus.


#53

Mathias

Mathias

makare said:
ok I lold and now I feel dirty. sigh.
Click to expand...
Wooo!



#54

LittleSin

LittleSin

When I was in junior high/senior high school I was a goth.

I don't know if you any of you guys have seen your stereotypical teenage gothic chick but I have no trouble saying that the look is very slutty. That was me with the exception of white face powder, I was already as white as the driven snow.

My Dad didn't like this look I was going for but he knew it was going to be hard to break me from it. So, instead we hashed out some rules. For example, if I was to wear a fishnet shirt (oh god, did I just type that?) I had to wear a something other than a tiny tank top in under it, so a T-shirt. I was a bit upset..but I went with it and I was better for it. I was never called a slut like some of the other goth girls and was treated a lot better then them.

Besides the fashion rules my Dad also educated me. It was a scarey talk about avoiding dark places and never 'letting' a man do what he wanted to me out of fear. Looking back on it he was really struggling to not scaring the shit out of me but to empower me. He didn't want me looking at myself as something to be leered at by men...but wanted me to be aware that it was going to happen anyways and I should be prepared for it.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that, yes, the way you dress is going to attract attention, some (most?) of it negative. However, I think the parents and schools should be educating children better.

If my Dad is any indication, this is easier said then done.


#55

Sara_2814

Sara_2814

makare said:
No someone got schooled. Someone who said the things she was reacting to, but it wasn't me. I didn't say anything about sluts or whores and I certainly didn't say anything about belly dancers, or any any dancers, being sluts or whores. I guess instead of eye roll I guess facepalm would be more appropriate.
Click to expand...
Can I wear a mini-skirt to this school?

And I quote:
makare said:
who the fuck is dressing their five year old daughter up as a belly dancer!?
Click to expand...
If you're not implying anything about belly dancing, then why the fuck are you using such strong language regarding someone getting their kid a belly dancing costume? What the fuck was your intent in that sentence then, because I'm pretty fucking certain that "fuck" is a word commonly used for fucking emphasis. One does not usually berate Wal-Mart managers over items they don't have a fucking problem with.

If you have no problem with belly dancing, and did not mean to imply anything about belly dancers, then WTF?


#56



makare

Here is the rest of the quote-

Some made sense, for adults anyway, along the theme of the costume like belly dancer


#57

Mathias

Mathias



FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT!


#58

Sara_2814

Sara_2814

Mathias said:
FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT!
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Goalie fights are just kind of sad. They just keep swinging and swinging and not a goddamned thing comes of it.
.
.
.
.
Imma go sit in the penalty box now.


#59

strawman

strawman

Sara_2814 said:
justify putting women into burqas
Click to expand...
ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!?!?!

WOMEN WEARING BURQAS ARE MERELY WALKING PHALLUSES... PHALLII... PHALANGES... OH WHATEVER.


#60

Espy

Espy

LittleSin said:
When I was in junior high/senior high school I was a goth.

I don't know if you any of you guys have seen your stereotypical teenage gothic chick but I have no trouble saying that the look is very slutty. That was me with the exception of white face powder, I was already as white as the driven snow.

My Dad didn't like this look I was going for but he knew it was going to be hard to break me from it. So, instead we hashed out some rules. For example, if I was to wear a fishnet shirt (oh god, did I just type that?) I had to wear a something other than a tiny tank top in under it, so a T-shirt. I was a bit upset..but I went with it and I was better for it. I was never called a slut like some of the other goth girls and was treated a lot better then them.

Besides the fashion rules my Dad also educated me. It was a scarey talk about avoiding dark places and never 'letting' a man do what he wanted to me out of fear. Looking back on it he was really struggling to not scaring the shit out of me but to empower me. He didn't want me looking at myself as something to be leered at by men...but wanted me to be aware that it was going to happen anyways and I should be prepared for it.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that, yes, the way you dress is going to attract attention, some (most?) of it negative. However, I think the parents and schools should be educating children better.

If my Dad is any indication, this is easier said then done.
Click to expand...
Your dad sounds like a good guy. And some guys even like a little modesty, hell a little mystery is usually a great thing for most guys. You can be sexy without looking trashy is my wifes motto.

On a related note: I knew a ton of goth kids in the scene back in the day and honestly I never felt like it was any "sluttier" of a look than anything else.


#61

Sara_2814

Sara_2814

stienman said:
ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!?!?!

WOMEN WEARING BURQAS ARE MERELY WALKING PHALLUSES... PHALLII... PHALANGES... OH WHATEVER.
Click to expand...
It's a good thing they're wearing protection then. ;)


#62



makare

rubber burqa


#63

strawman

strawman

makare said:
rubber burqa
Click to expand...
Man, is that HOT!


#64



makare

rubber does not breathe


#65

strawman

strawman

makare said:
rubber does not breathe
Click to expand...
Going for the necrophilia angle, eh?


#66

Sara_2814

Sara_2814

Makare, I apologize for blowing up like I did. It's just a really big trigger point for me when belly dancing is labeled "inappropriate", even for kids. Dancers have been fighting that perception for a long time. My only excuse is that I'm already having a stressful day, which isn't really a good excuse. I should have taken a deep breath (or 100) and then replied more diplomatically.

I'm just going to go ahead and give myself the Drama Llama.
:tina:


#67



makare

It's alright. I really don't have a problem with the belly dancing outfit for actual belly dancing not for adults or kids. I just have a problem with skimpy halloween costumes for little girls who don't really understand what is going on. Jazz dance costumes for little girls are also pretty revealing but that is not for sexiness (usually) it is for movement for dancing. I would assume it is the same for belly dancing. Just part of the form.


#68

@Li3n

@Li3n

makare said:
It's alright. I really don't have a problem with the belly dancing outfit for actual belly dancing not for adults or kids. I just have a problem with skimpy halloween costumes for little girls who don't really understand what is going on.
Click to expand...
The thing is nothing is really going on, unless the parents are actually trying to pimp their kids (see toddlers and tiara's), and then not allowing access to those clothes won't fix even 1% of the actual problem...

It's like if you're wearing a burka and another woman is wearing slutty clothes while a rapist is looking for a victim... maybe he'll choose her because of the clothes, but someone still gets raped... while if you where both wearing the same clothes i'd be 50-50...


#69

Charlie Don't Surf

Charlie Don't Surf

dude, Feminist is not the preferred nomenclature


#70

Krisken

Krisken

Dude.


#71

sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

There's a saying here in the South.

"You can call me Mother Fucker, but don't call me Dude."


#72



makare

@Li3n said:
The thing is nothing is really going on, unless the parents are actually trying to pimp their kids (see toddlers and tiara's), and then not allowing access to those clothes won't fix even 1% of the actual problem...

It's like if you're wearing a burka and another woman is wearing slutty clothes while a rapist is looking for a victim... maybe he'll choose her because of the clothes, but someone still gets raped... while if you where both wearing the same clothes i'd be 50-50...
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Hopefully not allowing their kids to wear those clothes isn't the only way the parents are trying to combat society's putting children in adult situations. That's my concern, children missing out on the exploration and innocent curiosity stages of sexual development because our culture blasts them directly into the realms of adult sexuality. I am not worried (in this situation) about pedophiles or rapists. I am worried children are missing out on being children.

I would also like to amend this to say I don't even mean promiscuous adult sexuality just adult sexuality at all.


#73

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Hmm. I don't think belly dancing is inappropriate, but I hardly think it's fair to suggest it's not evocative of sex. Belly dancers can put their fingers in their ears all day and go "LALALALALA it's not sexual--we're just expressing our bodies" or blame men or 19th century prudes or whatever. But it's still a very provocative dance. Saying it's not, or blaming someone else who finds it so seems just as ignorant as labeling the dance as evil. I mean, it involves putting your arms in the air and thrusting your vaginal area around, which looks an awful lot like sex to a lot of people. I could cup my hand and move it around my general pelvic region and say it's not simulated masturbation, it's a dance expression of the beauty of the human arm. And maybe it is. Maybe that's actually what I intended it to be. But it still looks like masturbation to plenty of people, no matter how much I deny it.

To be clear, I have nothing against belly dancing, but I don't think it's weird to find it kind of sexual, either.


#74

strawman

strawman

While there are many conflicting ideas about the origin of belly dancing, it's generally agreed to have originate in the middle east, both sexes learned the various dances, and most notably:

Historically, most of the dances associated with belly dance were performed with the sexes separated; men with men and women with women. Few depictions of mixed dancing exist.
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So there is a strong argument that it is not meant to be sexual, despite the movement associated with it*.

However, there's also a strong argument to be made that it was recognized that performing it in mixed company could result in unintended consequences.

*although various accounts suggest that couples would dance for each other, counter-suggesting that it was a sexual dance that was learned and practiced publicly separately, and only in front of one's partner privately.


#75

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I love history and I like knowing author intent, but intent doesn't matter because the effect on the viewer is the object of discussion. It can't be wished away by author (or historical) intentions. Indeed, in artistic interpretation, author intent is often considered secondary to viewer interpretation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intentional_fallacy


#76



makare

Don't go all Barthes on us now.


#77

Null

Null

Blaming the victim and blaming the society are equally stupid. Blame the offender.


#78

strawman

strawman

I don't think anyone - even the original letter from the school - is blaming the victim or society.

They are pointing out that they believe there's a higher risk of becoming a victim if one chooses to wear "provocative" clothing, for some values of "provocative". It's not right that these people are getting attacked, but in the same way that they can encourage, but not always mandate, bicycle helmets as a way to reduce the risk of head injury, they can encourage people to lower their risk of becoming a target for potential attackers.

No one complains when a self defense teacher says, "It's not your fault if you get attacked, but if you choose to keep your head down and not pay attention to what's going on around you, then you are an easier and more attractive target for a mugger."

Yet people get all up in arms when people say the same thing about choice of clothing.

Wear what you like.

Dress your child how you like.

But recognize that way you dress may make you a more or less attractive target, and you cannot decrease the risk by simply saying, "I should be able to wear what I like without risk." You are right.

However, that won't decrease your risk.

On the flip side, child abduction is not as common as parental paranoia would suggest.


#79



Disconnected

stienman said:
Wear what you like.

Dress your child how you like.

But recognize that way you dress may make you a more or less attractive target, and you cannot decrease the risk by simply saying, "I should be able to wear what I like without risk." You are right.

However, that won't decrease your risk.
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i'm gonna go ahead and agree on that here.
Wear what you want but understand other people may percieve it differently than you and you cannot change that. If some guy(or girl) wants to perv all over you for wearing short shorts they will do it regardless.
Now, i'm gonna go ahead and ask you to come in too-morr-row. yeaah.


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