Don't Worry Kaylee, It Wasn't Your Fault Simon Wasn't Interested...

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Dave

Dave

Staff member
Poor Kaylee. Of course, she did get him in Serenity.

But my reaction to his sexuality? Who cares?

I really don't get why this is a death knell in Hollywood. I doubt it is as much so as it used to be.
 
Shegokigo

Shegokigo

It actually really is. There has been a number of actors/actresses, that after coming out, while are praised by the community outwardly, suddenly disappear off the "straight" roles that they would have easily achieved afterward. It's why most superstars keep it secret till way after their career is over (Ian McKellen) or use it as a temporary final bump before retiring (Ricky Martin).

A couple pretty decent articles about the subject:
http://jezebel.com/5378285/when-will-a-superstar-come-out-of-the-closet
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...Coming-gay-actor-ruined-career-Hollywood.html
http://marquee.blogs.cnn.com/2010/01/23/james-franco’s-take-on-actors-coming-out-of-the-closet/
 
Dave

Dave

Staff member
I was even going to point out the fact that NPH was still getting great gigs but they addressed that in the first article.

Frankly I think it's weird that the bastion of liberal thinking in America acts like this. I guess it's not something I've ever paid that much attention to. Of course, I've never had to put up with discrimination of any kind. White guy, born & raised in the midwest, not gay, not forcefully pro- or anti-anything to the point where I'd shout it from the rooftops.
 
Shegokigo

Shegokigo

Yeah, counter arguments almost ALWAYS bring up NPH, but the truth is, he didn't come out UNTIL he was already very much established in "HIMYM" so it wasn't as hard for people to continue believing in the "Barney" character. Had he come out prior? He would have completely been passed over for the character.

It's the "underbelly" of how people think. They're openly "accepting" of gay people because they have to be in the eyes of the public, unfortunately in the privacy of their own homes, they're still extremely prejudice and hateful. EX: Soccer mom says: "Oh did you hear about the Robinson's little boy? He's gay, but a very sweet kid, and so smart and charming!" *turns around and flips her lid if she ever found out any of her children had to spend any private time with the Robinson's kid ie: Study groups, long field trips, gym showers etc*
 
C

Chibibar

Shegokigo said:
Yeah, counter arguments almost ALWAYS bring up NPH, but the truth is, he didn't come out UNTIL he was already very much established in "HIMYM" so it wasn't as hard for people to continue believing in the "Barney" character. Had he come out prior? He would have completely been passed over for the character.

It's the "underbelly" of how people think. They're openly "accepting" of gay people because they have to be in the eyes of the public, unfortunately in the privacy of their own homes, they're still extremely prejudice and hateful. EX: Soccer mom says: "Oh did you hear about the Robinson's little boy? He's gay, but a very sweet kid, and so smart and charming!" *turns around and flips her lid if she ever found out any of her children had to spend any private time with the Robinson's kid ie: Study groups, long field trips, gym showers etc*
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You do have a point. They are actors/actress. I don't see why a person can't act straight or gay in a movie. Of course the underlying prejudice is there. People are weird sometimes.
 
Frank

Frank

They get straight actors to play gay all the time (Modern Family). I've never understood why people give a shit about the other way around. Then again, it continuously boggles my mind how much of a shit people seem to give if a person is homosexual or not. You know what else Leviticus thinks you should be killed for practicing? Infidelity, tatoos, eating stuff you shouldn't being eating, etc. I don't see people up in arms over that shit.
 
Shegokigo

Shegokigo

Totally ok for straight to play gay. Yet totally "can't believe it on screen" when gay plays straight. Is a number of reasons in the articles posted.

I'm actually going to stab myself in the foot here and actually say that even I can't pull myself away from the "vision" once I know. Seeing NPH on HIMYM is "awkward" for me because I didn't watch the show until after the announcement and seeing him as the "poon hunter" in the H&K movies just feels "off" for me. I dunno what it is, but there's some kind of mental fuck with knowing their sexuality for me.
 
sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

What Shegs said about NPH is why I wish we would let our celebrities be private citizens outside of their roles.

Then again, NPH always set my gaydar off. I thought that was why the Poon Hunter-NPH was even funnier, because of the suspicion that he was "acting"...
Added at: 17:11
Fun Size said:
Do you get the same thing when straights play gays?
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Only when it becomes a stereotypical "send-up" of the flaming homosexual. Then it just gets offensive.
 
Covar

Covar

Shegokigo said:
There has been a number of actors/actresses, that after coming out, while are praised by the community outwardly, suddenly disappear off the "straight" roles that they would have easily achieved afterward.
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I'm actually going to stab myself in the foot here and actually say that even I can't pull myself away from the "vision" once I know. Seeing NPH on HIMYM is "awkward" for me because I didn't watch the show until after the announcement and seeing him as the "poon hunter" in the H&K movies just feels "off" for me.
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You stabbed yourself in the foot in your very first post.

in retrospect from his Firefly performance, it can be seen a bit more obviously now
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Sounds to to me like it's not just the producers being biggoted.
 
Shegokigo

Shegokigo

Fun Size said:
Do you get the same thing when straights play gays?
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Most of the time? Yes. The only problem is, the openly gay people rarely get the openly gay roles in network TV.
Eric McCormack (Will from Will and Grace) always bothered me because he didn't come off as gay, AT ALL. It felt fake, every single time. The guy's they'd get to play Will's love interests? Almost always felt fake as well.

However, Sean Hayes (Jack), while being overly flamboyant, didn't come off as fake (which is probably linked to the fact that I'm 99% sure he's gay IRL).

I will say though, that I loved Sean Penn's performance as Milk and it was very believable. So to be honest, I'm a bit torn on the issue. I can see straight people in gay roles but have had trouble believing gay people in straight roles. No idea why, maybe the media got to me too.

@covar - How exactly did the foot stabbing happen in the first post? I clearly said that I didn't get the vibe from him the first time I watched it however looking back I could see how it would have been a bit more obvious.
 
M

makare

I don't really think of the person's actual sexual orientation when I see them in movies. Oh unless it is someone I know is straight and is playing someone very flamboyantly gay that amuses me and I don't care.
 
Null

Null

To be honest, how much of a career did the guy have before this announcement? I mean, he was one of the pivotal characters on Firefly, and I still wound up going, "Who? Ohhhh, him." He was the least interesting of the cast of Firefly / Serenity, though that was perhaps appropriate to his character. He didn't have Nathan Fillion's hammy charm, Alan Tudyk's goofy sweetness, Adam Baldwin's macho badass, or Ron Glass' serene wisdom. He's the guy you tend to forget about the moment he's offscreen.

That has nothing to do with him being gay or straight, it's just he was a thinly written character in a show full of strong ones. And I can't think of having seen him in anything else.
 
Covar

Covar

Shegokigo said:
Most of the time? Yes. The only problem is, the openly gay people rarely get the openly gay roles in network TV.
Eric McCormack (Will from Will and Grace) always bothered me because he didn't come off as gay, AT ALL. It felt fake, every single time. The guy's they'd get to play Will's love interests? Almost always felt fake as well.

However, Sean Hayes (Jack), while being overly flamboyant, didn't come off as fake (which is probably linked to the fact that I'm 99% sure he's gay IRL).

I will say though, that I loved Sean Penn's performance as Milk and it was very believable. So to be honest, I'm a bit torn on the issue. I can see straight people in gay roles but have had trouble believing gay people in straight roles. No idea why, maybe the media got to me too.

@covar - How exactly did the foot stabbing happen in the first post? I clearly said that I didn't get the vibe from him the first time I watched it however looking back I could see how it would have been a bit more obvious.
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Because you yourself admit that you can't help but see him as a gay man now that you know he's gay. You watch with the same attitude a producer has when they won't cast a gay man in a straight role.

What's funny about John Barrowman (Captain Jack Harkness) is that he was up for the role of Will on Will and Grace, but was turned down by producers because they felt he was too straight.
 
Shegokigo

Shegokigo

No, I said that now I can see things about him that I didn't notice before that would have tipped me off to him being gay. I had given it up as him just being a "weak" and soft spoken character and the fact that I was so enveloped with the show that I didn't bother to think about it as all the actors I knew on the show were straight. I didn't say anything about having a problem "believing" it until my 4th post.
 
Null

Null

I cannot stand John Barrowman. I didn't care for Captain Jack Harkness as a character - not because he was omnisexual, but because he was an arrogant jerk that was would have had a lot fewer disasters to stop if he'd been more forthcoming with his "trusted" subordinates, and he got most of his people killed for little to no reason. Now, fine, that's the writers' fault, but in the few other things I've seen Barrowman in, he *has* to be the center of attention, even when it's not about him. And that irritates me.
 
doomdragon6

doomdragon6

Staff member
I honestly have never had any issue with a gay actor ever. NPH being the best example, I was told he was gay after the first Harold and Kumar movie, and he still consistantly pulls off being a poon hound and everything really well.

I find out all kinds of actors are gay and it's never once made me notice anything off about them. If anything, I might look back one day and say, "Man, he was really good at acting like he wanted to bang that chick."
 
CrimsonSoul

CrimsonSoul

Shego does captain jack harkness off of torched come off as gay to you? (he is in the show and makes out with guys and the what not) his URL name is John barrowman

Edit: a quick google search shows he is gay and has a partner, good for him I love his acting! Does he seem gay to you though shego, if you've seen the show that is.

Holy cow the more I read the more I like this guy! To quote wikipedia

In the book, Barrowman reveals that when he was just beginning his acting career, management sent a gay producer to talk to him. The producer told Barrowman that he should try to pretend to be heterosexual in order to be successful. Barrowman was offended by the incident, and it made him more aware of the importance of his role as a gay public figure: "One of my explicit missions as an entertainer is to work to create a world where no one will ever make a statement like this producer did to me to anyone who's gay.
 
Ravenpoe

Ravenpoe

I'd totally make out with John Barrowman, and not even feel my heterosexuality threatened. He's just a beautiful man.
 
ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

Huh. I was under the impression NPH came out before HIMYM started. A quick wiki search told me otherwise (he came out in late 2006, show started in 2005; so it was close).

I think people coming out has becoming less of a death call for their career in the last couple of years. I think guys like Takei, NPH, and Barrowman or especially Ellen Degeneres have helped in that. NPH particularly, whose career has really taken off in the last couple of years. Mostly because he's just plain awesome, but I think part of it because he came out, especially while having the role in HIMYM.

But I think you're overall right; there's still this stigma about being gay in Hollywood. I was surprised to hear Kevin Spacey was gay, for example, but he apparently hides a lot of his private life from the public, which I can fully respect. Not just hiding his sexuality, but the fact that celebrities are hounded enough for being in any kind of relationship.
 
sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

NPH did not "come out" he was outed. Some dickweed decided it was more important to out him for gay civil rights than to let him lead a private life.
 
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