What do you find interesting in an RPG?
- Thread starter Jay
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Man, there are lots of mechanics for an RPG that I am flexible about, but the biggest thing? Give me a compelling story with interesting characters. Make me WANT to keep moving things forward. As much as I enjoy the open worlds of the Fallout universe, and I do, I almost wish that the main storyline was as compelling as all the little awesome things I kept searching out. This is also why DA2 wasn't great imo. I could deal with some of the more annoying parts of the game, the overused maps, the small world, IF the story had been better. And by better I mean, even half as compelling as the first DA, which had a fantastic driving storyline.
Dave
Staff member
I like open worlds where you can go anywhere. The problem is, I love areas where the creatures can take me apart but most open world games limit the enemies to your own level. I wish the areas (see WoW) were level based. So if I wanted to go to the area that has giants and cyclops I certainly could, but I better be damned careful. Having each monster scale to my level means that I don't have to be careful at all. I can charge in recklessly and have a chance.
When I first started playing Oblivion I had no idea about the level scaling. I went into a dungeon that I knew had vampires. I was extremely nervous and careful, taking my time, staying in shadows, watching for traps...then I attacked the first guy and took him out easily. Same with the next guy. WTF? These were bloody vampires! Then I found out about level scaling. Now I just go in, sneak close without worrying and wipe them out.
Open world. Keep the risk.
When I first started playing Oblivion I had no idea about the level scaling. I went into a dungeon that I knew had vampires. I was extremely nervous and careful, taking my time, staying in shadows, watching for traps...then I attacked the first guy and took him out easily. Same with the next guy. WTF? These were bloody vampires! Then I found out about level scaling. Now I just go in, sneak close without worrying and wipe them out.
Open world. Keep the risk.
JRPGs: I love exploring the open world map. I like doing the side quests and the inevitable goofiness that comes along. I don't always like the rate of random encounters. Sometimes I just want to get out of the cave already but oh hey a zubat.
Western RPGs: I like that there are usually more moral choices that you have to make, but I wish there would be more gray area. It's usually either just be good or be evil, but I want more "commit a crimefor the greater good" options that will actually matter. I usually don't like a lot of weapon designs because they usually all look alike. I also hate messy inventory systems. Either make it super realistic where I always have basically nothing or let me just keep everything. I hate having to decide between my back up sword and a quest item or something.
Pen and paper: I like clear and fun mechanics. Generally I like actually roll playing less and want to play the game portion more. I think this just might be due to past GMs who were always dicks about making us talk to the toll collector and "why did you even let us talk to the Orc warlord if there was no chance of us convincing him to not eat us"
MMOs: I like the open worlds, and the feeling of getting more and more powerful as you go. I like the feeling of excitement as you get that first magic weapon or first mount or something. That can quickly turn into disdain though as you get this new thing that's basically just the old thing but +1 agl and -1int but I guess I don't need int that much? Fuck I dunno. Oh hey lag. WELP time to go grind for another 3 hours.
Western RPGs: I like that there are usually more moral choices that you have to make, but I wish there would be more gray area. It's usually either just be good or be evil, but I want more "commit a crimefor the greater good" options that will actually matter. I usually don't like a lot of weapon designs because they usually all look alike. I also hate messy inventory systems. Either make it super realistic where I always have basically nothing or let me just keep everything. I hate having to decide between my back up sword and a quest item or something.
Pen and paper: I like clear and fun mechanics. Generally I like actually roll playing less and want to play the game portion more. I think this just might be due to past GMs who were always dicks about making us talk to the toll collector and "why did you even let us talk to the Orc warlord if there was no chance of us convincing him to not eat us"
MMOs: I like the open worlds, and the feeling of getting more and more powerful as you go. I like the feeling of excitement as you get that first magic weapon or first mount or something. That can quickly turn into disdain though as you get this new thing that's basically just the old thing but +1 agl and -1int but I guess I don't need int that much? Fuck I dunno. Oh hey lag. WELP time to go grind for another 3 hours.
A lot has been said already, but I'll repeat them a bit.
1. Engaging Story and Characters
2. Fun Combat Mechnics
3. Deep Customization Options
4. Plenty of Openness and Side Quests
As for what NOT to put in:
1. Long Cut Scenes
2. Overuse of Same Maps or Enemies
3. Lack of Content or Challenge Near End
1. Engaging Story and Characters
2. Fun Combat Mechnics
3. Deep Customization Options
4. Plenty of Openness and Side Quests
As for what NOT to put in:
1. Long Cut Scenes
2. Overuse of Same Maps or Enemies
3. Lack of Content or Challenge Near End
doomdragon6
Staff member
My top 3 favorite RPGs come to mind right now, so I'll list them and say why they were excellent, because they were all different:
1: Final antasy VII - Most compelling and complex story in an RPG I've played. People can say 6 was better, etc, but FF7 MADE me want to continue playing it forever. I HAD to do everything and get everything. It was fun, I cared very much for the characters and how they interacted with each other. The gameplay at the time was very fun, but I will concede that the gameplay aspect may be dated, but it is a classic RPG style.
Bottom Line: Story, Characters
2: Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars - This game's story is epic, but considerably lighter than the above. It replaces it with very fun and funny interactions, lighthearted humor, fun music, very addictive battles (and having to press a button to get the extra hit makes it so you are engaged in the battle the whole time), and the feeling that you travelled a very LONG way by the end of it. It truly makes you feel like you went to the end of the earth and back. Because you did! Plus, there are so many secrets that finding those alone could take a very long time.
Bottom Line: FUN, Big Adventure Feel, Secrets
3: Skies of Arcadia - Honestly, I don't remember the story that much, so I can't give it a point there. The characters weren't amazing either, but they were fun while playing. The combat was nothing special either. What made this game fun was the ability to explore your world completely, claim bits of it, and actually "find" things before other NPCs. Also, you are given your own base that you can customize based on choices you make, and there's a hint of a romantic choice system, but not enough. Airship battles made wandering around the world fun because they weren't same-y random encounters, they were completely different strategic systems. You could find a WANTED poster and then hunt down that pirate's airship.
Bottom Line: Exploration, Living World, Customization and Making Something Feel "Yours"
As far as Western RPGs go, the following would make my perfect game:
Morrowind-style world and freedom with Oblivion-or-better quality graphics, [insert-best-physics-engine-here], with Might and Magic: The Dark Messiah's perfect physical combat/environmental combat system
Morrowind-style world and freedom: Morrowind was very diverse and everywhere was completely different and interesting. You were free to go or try to go anywhere, or kill anything. There were flight spells, jump spells, all kinds of spells that you could create yourself just to have fun and enjoy playing around.
Gaphics: 'Nuff said
Physics Engine: Oblivion's was pretty bad by today's standards, so something more fulfilling and permitting would be fun.
M&M
ark Messiah: If you haven't played this, I've never encountered a better fantasy combat system. Set up traps, use the world around you, fire interacts with things, electricty electrocutes things in water, spells can freeze, push, burn, etc. Kicking an enemy over the edge of a cliff NEVER stops being satisfying. Ever. Basically, when you're playing a game and go, "Man, wouldn't it be cool if I could do this?", this game says, "YOU CAN!" Also, big, big, epic events happen real-time. There's a giant crashing into the city. You can stand and watch, try to fight, run like shit, or get crushed by a rock that falls. This game's systems, combined with a huge sprawling world, would be amazing.
1: Final antasy VII - Most compelling and complex story in an RPG I've played. People can say 6 was better, etc, but FF7 MADE me want to continue playing it forever. I HAD to do everything and get everything. It was fun, I cared very much for the characters and how they interacted with each other. The gameplay at the time was very fun, but I will concede that the gameplay aspect may be dated, but it is a classic RPG style.
Bottom Line: Story, Characters
2: Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars - This game's story is epic, but considerably lighter than the above. It replaces it with very fun and funny interactions, lighthearted humor, fun music, very addictive battles (and having to press a button to get the extra hit makes it so you are engaged in the battle the whole time), and the feeling that you travelled a very LONG way by the end of it. It truly makes you feel like you went to the end of the earth and back. Because you did! Plus, there are so many secrets that finding those alone could take a very long time.
Bottom Line: FUN, Big Adventure Feel, Secrets
3: Skies of Arcadia - Honestly, I don't remember the story that much, so I can't give it a point there. The characters weren't amazing either, but they were fun while playing. The combat was nothing special either. What made this game fun was the ability to explore your world completely, claim bits of it, and actually "find" things before other NPCs. Also, you are given your own base that you can customize based on choices you make, and there's a hint of a romantic choice system, but not enough. Airship battles made wandering around the world fun because they weren't same-y random encounters, they were completely different strategic systems. You could find a WANTED poster and then hunt down that pirate's airship.
Bottom Line: Exploration, Living World, Customization and Making Something Feel "Yours"
As far as Western RPGs go, the following would make my perfect game:
Morrowind-style world and freedom with Oblivion-or-better quality graphics, [insert-best-physics-engine-here], with Might and Magic: The Dark Messiah's perfect physical combat/environmental combat system
Morrowind-style world and freedom: Morrowind was very diverse and everywhere was completely different and interesting. You were free to go or try to go anywhere, or kill anything. There were flight spells, jump spells, all kinds of spells that you could create yourself just to have fun and enjoy playing around.
Gaphics: 'Nuff said
Physics Engine: Oblivion's was pretty bad by today's standards, so something more fulfilling and permitting would be fun.
M&M
ark Messiah: If you haven't played this, I've never encountered a better fantasy combat system. Set up traps, use the world around you, fire interacts with things, electricty electrocutes things in water, spells can freeze, push, burn, etc. Kicking an enemy over the edge of a cliff NEVER stops being satisfying. Ever. Basically, when you're playing a game and go, "Man, wouldn't it be cool if I could do this?", this game says, "YOU CAN!" Also, big, big, epic events happen real-time. There's a giant crashing into the city. You can stand and watch, try to fight, run like shit, or get crushed by a rock that falls. This game's systems, combined with a huge sprawling world, would be amazing.
GasBandit
Staff member
RPGs done right - Baldur's Gate series, NWN1 (yeah, I said it.. it was robust and multiplayer friendly and BETTER THAN NWN2 THANK YOU). Ultima Underworld 1 and 2.
Give me open worlds, infinite possibilities, humorous and poignant character interaction, a friendly inventory system, stats that are easy to figure out (putting points here makes you better at that), diverse character classes that also balance (yeah, I ask for a lot, I know). A different experience played different times with different characters (IE, based on reputation, alignment, charisma, whatever).
Do NOT give me:
Ultralinear plot with few/jarring side quests
Super-obfuscated/placebo stats that you can't tell what they do and can't tell if you're actually getting better.
and most of all (listen up Dragon Age)
NO COMPLETIONIST BULLSHIT. No "cheevos" for finding all the flags hidden under cobblestones, or for who you slept with, etc etc. I tried playing Dragon Age as a focused avatar of "gettin' it done, savin' the world" and getting pulled 900 different ways by "if you do X then Y will leave your party but if you don't then Z will blah blah blah."
Which reminds me, NO GOTCHAS. Mass Effect 2? Would have been nice to have known ahead of time that the mission that finds Legion would be the trigger for my crew getting abducted after the next mission and forcing the suicide mission. Maybe I'd have done all my crew's loyalty quests then before I did that but nooooo I wanted legion in my party to hear funny geth things as I went around doing stuff. FAAGGHKK.
But really, I dunno. Maybe I've just finally outgrown RPGs. Even though I say I want deep stories and engrossing characters, it never seems like I can take the time to thoroughly enjoy them. I have the feeling 15-years-ago-me would have absolutely loved what drives me up the wall now.
Give me open worlds, infinite possibilities, humorous and poignant character interaction, a friendly inventory system, stats that are easy to figure out (putting points here makes you better at that), diverse character classes that also balance (yeah, I ask for a lot, I know). A different experience played different times with different characters (IE, based on reputation, alignment, charisma, whatever).
Do NOT give me:
Ultralinear plot with few/jarring side quests
Super-obfuscated/placebo stats that you can't tell what they do and can't tell if you're actually getting better.
and most of all (listen up Dragon Age)
NO COMPLETIONIST BULLSHIT. No "cheevos" for finding all the flags hidden under cobblestones, or for who you slept with, etc etc. I tried playing Dragon Age as a focused avatar of "gettin' it done, savin' the world" and getting pulled 900 different ways by "if you do X then Y will leave your party but if you don't then Z will blah blah blah."
Which reminds me, NO GOTCHAS. Mass Effect 2? Would have been nice to have known ahead of time that the mission that finds Legion would be the trigger for my crew getting abducted after the next mission and forcing the suicide mission. Maybe I'd have done all my crew's loyalty quests then before I did that but nooooo I wanted legion in my party to hear funny geth things as I went around doing stuff. FAAGGHKK.
But really, I dunno. Maybe I've just finally outgrown RPGs. Even though I say I want deep stories and engrossing characters, it never seems like I can take the time to thoroughly enjoy them. I have the feeling 15-years-ago-me would have absolutely loved what drives me up the wall now.
figmentPez
Staff member
I like a variety of RPGs for different reasons, though my tastes have changed a lot since I was a kid. I used to love grinding in the Final Fantasy games. I mean, I actually enjoyed killing monsters. Now I hate that style of grinding. I still like it in Titan Quest, though, because there's more interaction there.
I definitely don't play as many RPGs as I used to.
I definitely don't play as many RPGs as I used to.
I actually do not mind linear stories in the slightest, as long as it's interesting and I can drive where it goes in a morality sense. Multiple endings in a linear game are fun, a single ending in a game where you get to do things however you want, not fun.
And by different endings, I don't mean shit like Fable 3, where I just wanted to throw all the civilians in a pit of fire and be done with them all.
And by different endings, I don't mean shit like Fable 3, where I just wanted to throw all the civilians in a pit of fire and be done with them all.
A lot of good points people, very agreeable, here's mine.
What's enjoyable
- A world I like to come back to because it just "feels" nice and makes me want to explore more of it. (TES series, Baldur's Gate series, Lunar Series)
- I like to have a goal I can work towards but don't like linear paths that force me to follow it which goes from cutscene to cutscene.
- I like interacting with interesting characters and follow their stories.
- I like to have an actual choice in how to respond to them and how to approach a situation that truly impacts the game world.
- I like to need to think before I do something.
- I like if a game offers cross-genre things and doesn't limit itself to be "like everything else out there". AKA RPG/Strategy RPG/Building hybrids.
- Encounter design and a combat system which combine to require me to think about my moves a significant amount of the time.
-A thoughtful character development system. Not as important as the combat system but I really love it when character development isn't simply a matter of getting stronger and stronger, finding one item that is better than the next. Instead, you should have to specialize your dudes for different roles (beyond just their standard set role) and different gear should be useful for different situations. (Jagged Alliance 2 for a perfect example).
What annoys
- JRPG crap. I cannot. Will not enjoy most Jap Crap games.
- Immersion breaking limits. Such as a helmet I can't wear, because I don't have enough... cunning. WTF?
- Repetitive quests or fetch quests in general. "Get 20 pieces of boar meat for one cake" (What kinda cake is that supposed to be anyways?)
- Retarded drops from things. Such as I'll go kill those boars for the meat then kill one only to find it drop a magic ring, magical leather shoes, a piano and a jumbo jet, but no goddamned boar meat. I usually hate most MMOs for this reason alone.
- I don't like "levels" and I don't like "classes". I like being able to do, whatever I want, depending on my tastes. I don't like "levels" deciding how good I get. I'd much rather learn by using, such as TES or Ultima Online.
- I don't like games that try to be films with ages long cut scenes I can do nothing but watch (worst of all, not even skip them and get on with my game)
- I don't like design decisions that are aimed at pre-teens. I don't want all woman to look like porn stars with huge fucken cans and I don't want all male characters to look like Chris Hemsworth but sound like and act like little fucken bitches with bitchy issues.
- I dislike the old storylines of "save the world", "save the princess". There's so much more available out there.
What's enjoyable
- A world I like to come back to because it just "feels" nice and makes me want to explore more of it. (TES series, Baldur's Gate series, Lunar Series)
- I like to have a goal I can work towards but don't like linear paths that force me to follow it which goes from cutscene to cutscene.
- I like interacting with interesting characters and follow their stories.
- I like to have an actual choice in how to respond to them and how to approach a situation that truly impacts the game world.
- I like to need to think before I do something.
- I like if a game offers cross-genre things and doesn't limit itself to be "like everything else out there". AKA RPG/Strategy RPG/Building hybrids.
- Encounter design and a combat system which combine to require me to think about my moves a significant amount of the time.
-A thoughtful character development system. Not as important as the combat system but I really love it when character development isn't simply a matter of getting stronger and stronger, finding one item that is better than the next. Instead, you should have to specialize your dudes for different roles (beyond just their standard set role) and different gear should be useful for different situations. (Jagged Alliance 2 for a perfect example).
What annoys
- JRPG crap. I cannot. Will not enjoy most Jap Crap games.
- Immersion breaking limits. Such as a helmet I can't wear, because I don't have enough... cunning. WTF?
- Repetitive quests or fetch quests in general. "Get 20 pieces of boar meat for one cake" (What kinda cake is that supposed to be anyways?)
- Retarded drops from things. Such as I'll go kill those boars for the meat then kill one only to find it drop a magic ring, magical leather shoes, a piano and a jumbo jet, but no goddamned boar meat. I usually hate most MMOs for this reason alone.
- I don't like "levels" and I don't like "classes". I like being able to do, whatever I want, depending on my tastes. I don't like "levels" deciding how good I get. I'd much rather learn by using, such as TES or Ultima Online.
- I don't like games that try to be films with ages long cut scenes I can do nothing but watch (worst of all, not even skip them and get on with my game)
- I don't like design decisions that are aimed at pre-teens. I don't want all woman to look like porn stars with huge fucken cans and I don't want all male characters to look like Chris Hemsworth but sound like and act like little fucken bitches with bitchy issues.
- I dislike the old storylines of "save the world", "save the princess". There's so much more available out there.
- Don't railroad me. It's OK to include triggers for when some things become available, but don't EVER force me to spend hours doing something. I want to be able to tackle the story at my own pace.
- Can we PLEASE get past the 4 body-types allowed in games? Fat and short people DO exist and most of them aren't gonks. You don't need to be pretty to be heroic. I'm sick and tired of the whiny pretty boys/girls as main characters... give me somebody that would be normal in real life.
- I'd like more dynamic music please. Skies of Arcadia made it very apparent how well you were doing in battle by altering the tune at any measure to tell you so.
- Collecting more than 12 of anything is a bullshit sidequest and certainly isn't an achievement. That stuff was boring 20 years ago and the rewards are rarely worth it.
- If your going to give me something that makes me more powerful, don't give it to me after fighting the end boss/bonus boss unless I get to use it in New Game+. Bragging rights rewards SUCK, especially if you don't have anyone to use them on.
- Sci-Fi and Fantasy are great for settings but you know what would be even better? Real World settings. The closest we've come are the Persona, Mother, and Shadow Hearts series. I'd love more of this.
- Can we PLEASE get past the 4 body-types allowed in games? Fat and short people DO exist and most of them aren't gonks. You don't need to be pretty to be heroic. I'm sick and tired of the whiny pretty boys/girls as main characters... give me somebody that would be normal in real life.
- I'd like more dynamic music please. Skies of Arcadia made it very apparent how well you were doing in battle by altering the tune at any measure to tell you so.
- Collecting more than 12 of anything is a bullshit sidequest and certainly isn't an achievement. That stuff was boring 20 years ago and the rewards are rarely worth it.
- If your going to give me something that makes me more powerful, don't give it to me after fighting the end boss/bonus boss unless I get to use it in New Game+. Bragging rights rewards SUCK, especially if you don't have anyone to use them on.
- Sci-Fi and Fantasy are great for settings but you know what would be even better? Real World settings. The closest we've come are the Persona, Mother, and Shadow Hearts series. I'd love more of this.
figmentPez
Staff member
Does Alpha Protocol count? I know it got mixed reviews, but it was even more real-world than any of those.
Alpha Protocol had the trappings of an amazing game made moot by the actual gameplay being rushed garbage. It's open ended story and it's dialog was actually pretty fucking awesome (albeit a pretty simple spy story). My buddy played through it too and he had a relationship in his game with a character that I barely had 2 words with in mine. It's REALLY open ended.
C
Chibibar
Yea. the game level scaling is bad also
I mean in the early games I can snipe people but at level 20 (max) every single person got bulletproof HEADS (takes like 4 to 6 sniper shots to kill them)What do I like about RPG?
Good Story
Open world WITH level (not scale like Dave said. There should be areas I have to be careful or I will die)
Customization and options are the most important components for me. Sure, storyline and characters matter. But I don't want to play if there's no way to be creative or different. I want many options for how to build characters, or teams, or armies, or whatever. It's what makes games interesting and fresh.
GasBandit
Staff member
I will say that in multiplayer RPGs, especially MMOs, character customization is definitely one of the most important aspects. It's why I still feel the pull to City of Heroes/Villains even after all these years, and I have a bookmark to a youtube video to remind me why I quit (the actual gameplay).
Of course, now with the subscription fee barrier to entry removed.... *whine*....
Of course, now with the subscription fee barrier to entry removed.... *whine*....
GasBandit
Staff member
You know what's an RPG I really liked? Borderlands was an RPG I really liked. OK, shooter with heavy RPG elements, but still. I liked the way the quests worked. I liked the way the "spend your points" dynamic worked. I was ambivalent about how gear-focused it was, but whatcha gonna do? Memorable characters with great dialog. And for the most part, DLC done right. General Knoxx ftw.
C
Chronos[Ha-G]
I loved Borderlands, personally - which reminds me of something I've been thinking of lately and seems rather appropriate given the topic of this thread. Personally, I'd like to see more RPGs with...how do I put it?...Perhaps a technological/modern tactics bent. When I say that, I don't just mean "Lasers," I mean more RPGs that focus on how individuals in battle would use the terrain to their advantage (Hiding behind cover, flanking opponents, using some actual tactics in battle). I realize this is somewhat of a weak explanation of what I'm thinking, so I'll try to boil it down as thus:
A while back, I had an idea - merely an idea, so feel free to steal it and make it your own if you happen to be a game developer reading this - for an RPG based on ranged combat that didn't focus on just your raw statistics. Yes, your HP and Armor and speed and whatnot would all be important, as would your armor and helmet and gun and whatever sparkly bullets it shoots out at the equally-well-equipped orcs in front of you, but not as much as an altogether more important stat.
Your character's Artificial Intelligence. (I don't really envision this as a directly player-controlled game. Maybe the main character, or whomever you switch to?)
The way I think of this game is similar to one of the few other games I can think of where the AI actually pays attention to whats happening in its environment and learns from it. The only example I can think of off the top of my head is that old Virtual Fighter game that let you "train" a CPU character to fight against other opponents for you. Perhaps another influence? Something like AI War: Fleet command, where you'd have the opportunity to position and equip each character before an individual fight, or give some general orders for them - maybe even a gambit system like Final Fantasy XII had, if it's to be closer to an open-world sort of game. It's a terrible mishmash of ideas, I realize*.
The key idea is that the AI for each character is another statistic that can gain experience through combat. If they learn a particularly evil way to feign their combatants into advancing past one side of a building so that they can quickly get into the building and rain lead and grenades down on them, the better they work on their own. If they learn to provide cover fire for another combatant to advance on an objective, that's great! Basically, the characters would become a fine-tuned unit - and so would their enemies, eventually.
Anyway. Enough with the rambling - I'll get to the main question of this thread.
Personally, the setting - and to a lesser extend, the story - to an RPG is very important to me. If it's just another "We have this kind of medieval swords and magic thing going on and you're trying to save the world from evil guy #7," I'll probably pass**. Further, the combat/interactions/what have you should also have some depth - I hate it when an RPG has plenty of magic and devastating spells you can unleash upon whatever you're fighting, but due to it being either -
1) the 70th random encounter you've run into in this damn cave, or
2) The fact that you can't actually afford to spend any of your magic at the time due to low magic or what have you
- you're most likely to either run or just smash the thing in the face. That really irks me. I really do prefer RPGs where they fill your health/magic/whatnot at the beginning of each battle - that way, you can make each individual fight more interesting, and more likely to require what you've learned thus far.
...Wow, that was a lot of word vomit.
*If someone ever really does get around to doing this - cut out whatever crap doesn't fit together here. It works in my head, but that doesn't translate to paper very well. I DON'T GOT NO PRINTER UP HERE.
**Not that I have anything against JRPGs. Loved Lost Odyssey, personally - mostly due to story.
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