Like a cell phone in a bomb shelter, I don't get signals (dating advice)

[ThatNickGuy]

Right, then I have two things to say to that:

1) Your approach was far too passive aggressive. Several of us made the suggestion to ask her out in a more casual way, like "Hey, wanna go see a movie with me on Friday?" because that's what works. Your approach shows no confidence. Trust me, that's speaking as someone who has no confidence.

2) She said 'no thank you'. That's it. She's not interested in you 'in that way'. Y'move on and ask someone else out.

 

[strawman]

you're probably not going to be the love of her life.

Not that I'm one to encourage you to break other people up, but she won't know if you're the love of her life unless she gets to know you. If he was the love of her life they'd be married - by definition.

Again - you can't break down love into a list of things you have in common, or things that are opposite but complement each other nicely, or things you like or dislike about the other person. You can't objectively measure love.

You are really, really, really hung up on the idea that there is some perfection you can attain that would instantly adhere her to you. It doesn't work that way. You can't expect that to happen.

You have to find the girl that fits you as you are now. She may already be in a minor relationship - and she may merely be holding onto a guy until she finds something better (sorry, it's how many women play that game - it sucks, but it's life). Don't let that get in your way.

 

[ThatNickGuy]

Also, last thing I'm saying in this thread:

We're returning once again to why this thread turned into 9 pages in the first place: most of us are trying to give you honest, helpful advice and you're shooting us down left right and centre with every excuse or (il)logical conclusion possible. I'm telling you again: GET. HELP. Counselling, meditation, reading Feeling Good, shaving your head and travelling to a Tibetan temple for a year. ANYTHING.

The past nine pages have been filled with delusional, self-destructive thinking that is honestly not going to get change without some effort on your part. This sort of effort involves seeking help in one way or another.

Basically, you'll be unable to love another until you're ready to love yourself.

 

[strawman]

Maybe if you used plastic surgery to look more like Superman.

 

[Shegokigo]

Basically, you'll be unable to love another until you're ready to love yourself.

Posted by me, by page 2. Shot down completely already like 8x.

 

[LittleSin]

I read the Feeling Good book Nicks is talking about. It did wonders for me. I still needed therapy but it got me started and helped to change my way of thinking enough to to get help.

 

[Chad Sexington]

I just want to speak about your uncle who 'seems happy'. Maybe he is! Some people are lifelong bachelors and not out of some celibate obligation, they're just happy that way.

But you clearly want to be in a relationship, so you clearly will be leaving a void in your life if you give up on trying because of fear of rejection. For your own sake, since you like to focus on the negative so much: focus on the fear of no relationship rather than the fear of rejection. Let one negative trump the other, which in some mathematical trick becomes positive? I don't know. Multiplication! That's when two negatives become-- Nevermind. The point is, this is something of obvious import to you, so don't hurt yourself by giving up out of fear or frustration or pain or sadness.

 

[Norris]

I read the Feeling Good book Nicks is talking about. It did wonders for me. I still needed therapy but it got me started and helped to change my way of thinking enough to to get help.

Look...I respect that you guys think this book will help me. But I have people tell me that The Bible will help, that A Purpose Driven Life will make me happy, that I just need to learn The Secret or listen to Deepak Chopra, adopt the Seven Habits of Highly Successful People, in that order (I went to church in middle school). I'm happy that the book helped you out. I'm just super duper incredibly skeptical of any kind of advice of this nature.

But you clearly want to be in a relationship, so you clearly will be leaving a void in your life if you give up on trying because of fear of rejection.

I can adapt. I can learn. I had to learn that a relationship was awesome, I can learn to be the quirky single guy who is the foremost collector of something kitschy. Lots of cats. People think he's gay (already had that happen).

1) Your approach was far too passive aggressive. Several of us made the suggestion to ask her out in a more casual way, like "Hey, wanna go see a movie with me on Friday?" because that's what works. Your approach shows no confidence. Trust me, that's speaking as someone who has no confidence.

I ask her out like that and she is going to assume it is a "just friends" deal. There is nothing worse than two people going into the same get together with wildly different expectations. If I think "date" and she thinks "friendly movie", it is going to be super awkward when that comes out.

Posted by me, by page 2. Shot down completely already like 8x.

I LIKE MYSELF! I like being a huge comic book fan. I like being a trekkie. I like being the kind of dude who would pick-up the girl, bring her flowers, open the door for her, pay the whole check, and expect maybe a good night peck if things went well. I just want to find a way to make that guy more attractive to the kind of woman I am attracted to.
Added at: 02:37

I have a feeling you don't drink. So here's my advice, go get drunk and kick your brains ass and relax.

If you're drinking to deal with the things that make you sad, you're drinking wrong. I have family members who do that. We call them "Binge Drinkers".
Added at: 02:40

I say just take the Iaculus method and date girls too young to know better. Oh wait, no, the ones that are 'mature for their age'.

True story: Mrs. M's sister offered to introduce me to one of her girlfriends. Who is 17. And in high school. Even I knew right off the bat that was a horrible idea.

 

[ThatNickGuy]

Which is why you continue to see each other, even as "just friends" and build that chemistry! That's the whole beauty of dating. It's not just "go on one date, jump immediately into a relationship." The whole idea of dating is to feel out (mentally and sometimes physically) whether you'd be compatible in that way. Just the fact that you'd be going out, just the two of you and not with a bunch of friends, immediately changes the dynamic.

Also, bringing flowers on a first date? I used to do that. And it's trying too hard. That's again speaking from experience.

As for Feeling Good? It has nothing in common with the spirtual stuff you listed. It's all about cognitive therapy, about changing your mind to a more positive outlook. As I said numerous times already, just being aware of Cognitive Distortions can do a world of good.

 

[LittleSin]

Nick...Nick....*hugs* You are trying so hard. I love ya, but he doesn't want it.

 

[ThatNickGuy]

I know. It's like talking to a brick wall.

I can't help but see myself from ten years ago in just about all of his posts. Seriously, I'm talking almost verbatim sometimes.

 

[LittleSin]

I know. It's like talking to a brick wall.

I can't help but see myself from ten years ago in just about all of his posts. Seriously, I'm talking almost verbatim sometimes.

I know. I hope you aren't beating yourself over it.

 

[Dei]

I am just posting here to say that I am going to have nightmares about Nick's avatar running up to me and stabbing out my eyes.

 

[ThatNickGuy]

Heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeere's NICKY!

 

[sixpackshaker]

Heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeere's NICKY!

sigh... sounds like your prom night.

 

[Norris]

Which is why you continue to see each other, even as "just friends" and build that chemistry! That's the whole beauty of dating. It's not just "go on one date, jump immediately into a relationship." The whole idea of dating is to feel out (mentally and sometimes physically) whether you'd be compatible in that way. Just the fact that you'd be going out, just the two of you and not with a bunch of friends, immediately changes the dynamic.

Well I kinda ruined the ever loving shit out that now so it is kind of moot. Besides, I have gone out to dinner with Mrs. M for dinner, to movies, just chilling out, etc. all the time. Even before she was married. And none of that made our relationship less platonic. In part (small part, the issue was settled when she turned me down for a date in eighth grade) because I am just plain not physically attractive enough for her tastes. I assume the same with Mads. Six years from now, maybe I will ask about it to be sure. In joke, not serious suggestion that.

Also, bringing flowers on a first date? I used to do that. And it's trying too hard. That's again speaking from experience

.That is absolutely a good point. I wasn't actually going to be able to do it because I don't have money.

As for Feeling Good? It has nothing in common with the spirtual stuff you listed. It's all about cognitive therapy, about changing your mind to a more positive outlook. As I said numerous times already, just being aware of Cognitive Distortions can do a world of good.

Look, I respect that the book helped you. Deepak Chopra's teachings about Quantum Physics have helped people I know. I read ten pages of his stuff at a library before realizing it had no basis in science. once bitten, twice shy. Besides that, I don't think I need that. What you keep calling "mind reading", I view as applying the principles of deductive reasoning and the scientific method to day to day life.

 

[Ravenpoe]

Oh hey, this thread again!

Let's all go in circles. I'll get the popcorn.

*I'm too hip to actually use the popcorn smiley*

 

[Hailey Knight]

I'm just super duper incredibly skeptical of any kind of advice of this nature..

You can't get help because you're skeptical of help.

Sheeeeeet, you need help.

 

[Norris]

You can't get help because you're skeptical of help.

Sheeeeeet, you need help.

Neither Deepak Chopra nor The Secret are "help".

 

[sixpackshaker]

The Nicky he's referring to is in his pants...

 

[ThatNickGuy]

Besides that, I don't think I need that. What you keep calling "mind reading", I view as applying the principles of deductive reasoning and the scientific method to day to day life.

NO, IT IS ABSOLUTELY NOT. There is nothing scientific or deductive about this manner of thinking. You do not know what someone else is thinking at any time. You can only assume. You're taking your own self-esteem problems and putting a negative spin on it because that's safer than out and out confronting the person.

"Mind Reading is a distortion particularly associated with anxiety in social situations. Mind Reading is when an individual thinks that they know, or are wondering what another person is thinking about them. In a given situation, usually an ambiguous one, a person jumps to the conclusion that something derogatory is being thought of them."

 

[Norris]

you need help.

Let me put it this way - yesterday, I came home from asking her out and felt even worse than I do now. I took walk, listened to three particular songs, felt normal again. I admit, I have been spirally in my thinking the last few hours. The infrequency with which I meet interesting single women and my inability to actually get them on a date when I do is something that causes me a lot of sadness. But not enjoying being lonely is, from what I understand, normal. The majority of people feel down in the dumps after a rejection! I'ma go on a walk now, listen to my motivational jams (Baby I'm A Star by Prince, Walk by The Foo Fighters, and #Trendin by The Original 7ven [formerly The Time]) and I'll go to bed happy. This time next week I will be looking forward to the art school's halloween party because HOLY SHIT there are nerdy girls there and you can find them just by looking. There was a chick dressed as the Nostalgia Critic there last year! I have no idea how to actually hit it off with a girl on a first meeting to get a number, but hey! Gotta put yourself out there.

 

[Shegokigo]

I have no idea how to actually hit it off with a girl on a first meeting to get a number, but hey! Gotta put yourself out there.

Wait... is that... no... it can't be....

A shining light in this thread of misery?! YES! IT IS! We have contact folks, we have contact!

*crowd goes wild*

Go Norris Go! *the chanting was heard round the world*

 

[Norris]

NO, IT IS ABSOLUTELY NOT. There is nothing scientific or deductive about this manner of thinking. You do not know what someone else is thinking at any time. You can only assume. You're taking your own self-esteem problems and putting a negative spin on it because that's safer than out and out confronting the person.

"Mind Reading is a distortion particularly associated with anxiety in social situations. Mind Reading is when an individual thinks that they know, or are wondering what another person is thinking about them. In a given situation, usually an ambiguous one, a person jumps to the conclusion that something derogatory is being thought of them."

Let's dissect this case, where you accused me of "mind reading" in saying I didn't meet Mads' standards for dating. I have hung out with her a lot in the last month and a half. We have achieved a relatively deep level of...whatever the communications theory science term for sharing intimate details of our lives is, it escapes me now. We have similar interests. We got along swimingly. I asked her out. She said no. There is something that she is looking for in a potential relationship (a "standard") that I don't posses (or meet). When someone meets what you are looking for, you are attracted to them romantically (not always, but in general). I am not reading her mind. I am not assuming it must be a negative (it could be something as simple as she wants dudes taller than her). But I do not meet her standards, whatever they are.

 

[ThatNickGuy]

Rationalizing, rationalizing, rationalizing.

I give up.

 

[Norris]

Wait... is that... no... it can't be....

A shining light in this thread of misery?! YES! IT IS! We have contact folks, we have contact!

*crowd goes wild*

Go Norris Go! *the chanting was heard round the world*

OK, I may have expressed the idea that maybe I am destined to be like my uncle, but I should have specified that he did have girlfriends when he was younger and even in my lifetime (last one was when I was maybe three). So I will keep trying. I'm not horribly optimistic (I was, once, but not since number three), but I will try. Wondering what could have been is just as big a bitch as being shot down.

Rationalizing, rationalizing, rationalizing.

I give up.

FUCKING EXPLAIN TO ME WHERE THE FLAW IN MY THINKING IS. I gave you my rationale. You say my rationale is incorrect. Tell me why! Let me put it this way - I know this girl, we shall call her T. T and I get along fine. We're friendly. We talk, alone, somewhat frequently. Make each other laugh. But she is self-admittedly pretty over weight, is all tatted up, and likes to get her drink on. All of those are MASSIVE turn offs for me. If she asked me out, I would say "No thank you" because she doesn't meet standards I have set. I asked my friend Mrs. M out in eighth grade. She turned me down because she has a certain standard to physical beauty she wants in a man. I did not meet it, she turned me down. But I am science minded. Show me where I am drawing a conclusion not backed by evidence. PLEASE. Show, don't tell.

from what I've read, you need help. These sound like the types of problems that without help will only get worse with time.

I get sad sometimes because I'm lonely since my girlfriend dumped me. I have been burned several times in asking girls out so I am a tad overcautious. This isn't out of the freakin' ordinary. It is out of the ordinary that I am open and talk about it, but shit man. Find me a guy who doesn't fear rejection from a girl he really likes. Find me someone who is sunshine and lollipops after being dumped. Find me someone who doesn't have any sort of complex about their looks after being picked on for their looks or with some social phobias after being the school verbal punching bag for a few years. You just have to deal, and not let it stop you.

Now if you'll excuse me, some drama with my apartment's smoke detector has kept me from heading out for a walk.

Seriously, you are not a normal functional human being.

Awww, I bet you say that to all the girls.

 

[SpecialKO]

FUCKING EXPLAIN TO ME WHERE THE FLAW IN MY THINKING IS.

....I would seriously suggest that you re-read this thread.

In fact, print it out, and circle with red pen every place where someone challenged your thinking or told you why you were wrong in detail. Maybe you need a different physical perspective.

 

[Dei]

I seriously suggest Norris, that if you want people to stop replying with advice you don't want, then just walk away from the thread and don't look back. It's the internet. People will eat anything that you throw at them, so just stop throwing.

 

[Norris]

seriously man, go seek professional help.

That is telling, not showing. The fact that I am not attracted to T doesn't make me hate her, it means I don't want to date her. I'm saying that this is what happened with Mads. Why. Is. That. Incorrect?

....I would seriously suggest that you re-read this thread.

I have seen a lot people telling me "that's mind reading" or "reading too much into things". Then I explain more. Then they say I am rationalizing.

Look, I just wish I knew what Madelyn's rationale for turning me down was. Is it something I can surmount? Is it just that I'm not her type? Gut reaction? I'd like to know. Maybe it something that I can work on, either to try with her again later (highly unlikely) or to improve myself for the future.

 

[ThatNickGuy]

Once more because I'm a glutton for punishment, apparently.

I said "rationalizing, rationalizing, rationalizing". You read that as "your rationale is incorrect," which is completely false, putting words in my mouth. AGAIN.

From that alone? Using cogntive distortions?

-Overgeneralization
-Jumping to conclusions
-Magnification
-Mental filter

The fact that you're reading too much into things, overgeneralizing, jumping to conclusions, etc, all say that you are an incredibly negative, unhealthy thinker.

Just because Mrs. M or T or Mr. T or whoever it is that turns you down for whatever reason does not make you a bad person. It just means they're not interested in you in a romantic way. That is not a bad thing. It's just a fact. You're beating yourself over it instead of just accepting it.

I'm saying all this because I FUCKING WENT THROUGH THE SAME WAY OF THINKING FOR DECADES. I'm telling you this from experience. Did you not see the part I said to LittleSin how I see far too much of myself in almost everything you've said? The vast majority of the stuff you've said is almost exactly, word for fucking word, what I said ten and twenty years ago.

I'm not 100% better (see the whining thread), but I'm sure as hell better than I used to be. Why?

I got help.

For the love of God, I'm begging you, do the same.

 

[Norris]

And this is not a creative writing exercise. Go get professional help, you need it.

Because some dude I've never met read me talking about my insecurities vis-a-vis dating and relationships and decided I did. While the people who know me the best, who are closer to the situation than you, are saying "therapy could help you get there faster, but you're doing fine". If I had started a thread at my lowest point after being dumped, i think you guys woulda put me on suicide watch. I have come a long way, with just a little help from my friends, since then. People I met at my lowest point feel as though their assessment of me as a person was 90% wrong when they met me. Because I was down. Now I'm up. Happy, fun to be around. You guys, while I respect you are trying to help, have one small piece of the picture. So I'm not going to spend money I may not have on your say so.
Added at: 04:05

I said "rationalizing, rationalizing, rationalizing". You read that as "your rationale is incorrect," which is completely false, putting words in my mouth. AGAIN.

Well I apologize. The rationale lead me to the conclusion you are saying is a distortion. I did assume that meant my line of reasoning was wrong. I am sorry.

Just because Mrs. M or T or Mr. T or whoever it is that turns you down for whatever reason does not make you a bad person. It just means they're not interested in you in a romantic way. That is not a bad thing. It's just a fact. You're beating yourself over it instead of just accepting it.

I really really really like this girl. I would give my left nut just to get one shot at impressing her on a date. I wish I knew why she wasn't attracted to me as more than a friend. I also wish that maybe I had built the relationship up more before formally asking her out. I can't help but wonder if the place where we fail to meet is something that I can easily do differently (IE, avoid talking about X, Y, or Z) or would already plan to do differently (IE, drive her around as opposed to the opposite). I'm not a bad person for it. I fucking know that already.

I'm saying all this because I FUCKING WENT THROUGH THE SAME WAY OF THINKING FOR DECADES. I'm telling you this from experience. Did you not see the part I said to LittleSin how I see far too much of myself in almost everything you've said? The vast majority of the stuff you've said is almost exactly, word for fucking word, what I said ten and twenty years ago.

And I am telling you, I was worse. Much, much worse. But I have been getting demonstrably better, week by week and month by month, for the last year. I'm here talking about the side of my life I am still super insecure about. It is not the only facet. I promise you.

And think back - when you were my age, would you have listened to total strangers on the internet? Honestly. If the answer is yes, then I will stand corrected.

 

[Norris]

and if you think you have no problems because you go up and down, then you know nothing about mental health. However, whatever you do, do not read the DSM IV. That book made me crazy for three months.

Life has ups and downs. People have bad moods. People get sad. Some more than others. I'm not saying I have no problems, I am saying my problems aren't much more than stinkin' thinkin' habits formed based on how people treated me when I was kid. Habits that can be broken. That I am working on breaking.

 

[ThatNickGuy]

Which is why we keep telling you to get help. Because professionals can help you through breaking those habits.

And honestly, if someone ten or fifteen years ago told me they knew exactly what I was feeling and told me ways to help fix it? Yeah, I would have listened. In fact, I did. My sister. Ten or especially fifteen years ago, the internet wasn't as widely used as it is today. The only advice I heard from people on IRC were fellow internet shut-ins with their own problems.

 

[SpecialKO]

Life has ups and downs.

And yet, you seem determined to not see the upside to this. You managed to man up (sort of) and asked her out. You will never, ever wonder whether you missed something, or walked away from a chance to explore.

You say your friends are telling you that you're not doing bad and you're a decent guy in general, and that's why you're not listening to our opinions. Fine. So why are you not listening to their opinions, and insist on working yourself into a tizzy trying to figure out what's so wrong with you that Galatea won't go out with you?

 

[Hailey Knight]

And I am telling you, I was worse. Much, much worse.

Are you seriously pulling "More depressed than thou"?

Why are you guys trying so hard? Sure, most of us have been in his place, but haven't you listened to him? He's not going to become us. He's going to be his uncle. You guys, just go have kids or proteges to become you. Steinman, turn all six yours into you. Norris will not be your seventh son, sir.