It's been working wonders too.
Atheism
- Thread starter Jay
- Start date
- Status
C
Chibibar
Well yea and some people take advantage of these poor souls and take all their money.
GasBandit
Staff member
I'm pretty much agnostic myself, and rather passively so. I profess complete ignorance on the subject of the Great Metaphysical Truths. I think there most likely was some agency of creation, but as to whether that agency continued to be interested in the Created post-creation, I have my doubts. But even apart from that, I acknowledge that there is probably a great deal of human history in which the only things stopping your neighbor (or neighbor-nation) from murdering you in your sleep, raping your wife and taking all your stuff was fear of post-mortem inescapable consequences. Of course, it kinda broke down when conflicting religions rubbed against each other the wrong way.
People like to say that more evil has been perpetrated in the name of organized religion than any other, and I say that's not cause, it's correlation. I think the evil was there, and the religious bent was just the most expedient justification. Even without religion, human beings would flay each other alive for any number of other disagreements. The fallacy is to assume that those who stand in the way of what you consider to be progress would suddenly become unopposed to your worldview if they didn't have religion. There's another pretext to be found. There always is. Man's inhumanity to man is naked, bestial, and one of the perpetual truths - only what we clothe it in changes.
People like to say that more evil has been perpetrated in the name of organized religion than any other, and I say that's not cause, it's correlation. I think the evil was there, and the religious bent was just the most expedient justification. Even without religion, human beings would flay each other alive for any number of other disagreements. The fallacy is to assume that those who stand in the way of what you consider to be progress would suddenly become unopposed to your worldview if they didn't have religion. There's another pretext to be found. There always is. Man's inhumanity to man is naked, bestial, and one of the perpetual truths - only what we clothe it in changes.
As much proof as an atheist really.
I don't know about quantitatively more or less than other evils, but I would say that it has and does happen. That is, beliefs instigate the behavior rather than justify it afterwards.
Except all the scientific proof that there is for evolution vs Adam & Eve or anythingelse that was created and proven by Science instead of the wave of a magic hand.
So yeah, about the same.
GasBandit
Staff member
I'm pretty sure if they didn't have that particular belief, they'd have another one to get inquisitorial about, is where I was going with that.
Added at: 12:23
Atheism isn't about disbelief in just the christian god - it's about all gods, including the "uninterested creator" of deists. That's the gap that can't be bridged thus far.
Proof of evolution does nothing to disprove the existence of a higher power any more than the stories told in the Bible are proof of existence. Keep in mind an absence of proof is not proof of absence.
Atheism like Theism is a belief, and by the very nature of Theism that is all either of them can be.
I'm not saying it does, I'm saying it's evidence against what some religious swear by.
Absence of proof will always be proof of absence. That's the way it works, that's why it's called proof. It may exist, but will not be real to us without proof. Until then it's just faith, and faith is as strong as it's foundation. Which is based on belief. So I repeat, a belief in any religion is just as valid as a belief in anything, regardless of how inane or idiotic it could be "LolC'ThuluReligion", because of the "proof" of belief.
Absence of proof will always be proof of absence. That's the way it works, that's why it's called proof. It may exist, but will not be real to us without proof. Until then it's just faith, and faith is as strong as it's foundation. Which is based on belief. So I repeat, a belief in any religion is just as valid as a belief in anything, regardless of how inane or idiotic it could be "LolC'ThuluReligion", because of the "proof" of belief.
whither there is a god or not is irrelevant to me. I am a "functional atheist" in that whither it is there or not does not bother me in the least. It's a big universe out there and as a Environmental Scientist I want to know more no matter what its origin. if god shows up I would wave hello and continue my work.
people who push their beliefs on anyone are assholes. I know from my studies that evolution is real. but others are not ready to believe it. that's fine and I am happy for them to be as secure in their beliefs as I am in mine.
people who push their beliefs on anyone are assholes. I know from my studies that evolution is real. but others are not ready to believe it. that's fine and I am happy for them to be as secure in their beliefs as I am in mine.
What? No, very much no.
To be honest, I don't get young earth creationism at all. An intelligent designer I can kind of understand the philosophy behind it. Panspermia I find fascinating.
Don't look at me. I'm Catholic.
C
Chibibar
One of my friend (He is Christian) said that God exist and create life and let evolution takes its course (all part of the plan) I can roll with that. I am NO WHERE near the scientific mind we have on the forum much less the Greats in this world past or present, but I think the human race haven't been able to prove the origin of life scientifically, yet. There is so much mystery on this planet and YEARS of it to discover. We continue discovering and learning each days/months/years.
But to me, it shouldn't shake anyone's faith. I know that some religion oppose evolution on all level (not sure why really) I mean, is it hard to believe that God or gods jump start life a certain way and just let it run its course? (i.e. start with the whole living soup theory and just evolve from there?)
Added at: 12:59
I don't think carbon dating is THAT off (i.e. bones that are millions of years old)
But to me, it shouldn't shake anyone's faith. I know that some religion oppose evolution on all level (not sure why really) I mean, is it hard to believe that God or gods jump start life a certain way and just let it run its course? (i.e. start with the whole living soup theory and just evolve from there?)
Added at: 12:59
I don't understand them either. Even my parent's belief thinks the human race is only like 60,000 years old. Some religion believe that earth is only 6000 years old. That baffles me compare what we discover so far.
I don't think carbon dating is THAT off (i.e. bones that are millions of years old)
some protestant denominations believe the the Bible is the absolute word of God handed down directly to the people that wrote it. I've even had conversations with people who believe that it's a single work (yea, I really don't get this one, still not the strangest I've heard. That would be "Catholics aren't Christians" I kid you not, but I digress). I'm not even sure where to start when I hear that.
fade
Staff member
When I was a professor teaching Geology 101, I had to get into this debate at least 1-2 times a semester. Especially in Louisiana.
I always liked Phineas's beliefs in A Separate Peace, which were basically that he was pretty sure there wasn't one, but he'd keep up the ceremony just in case. If God was benevolent, he ought to be cool with that.
I always liked Phineas's beliefs in A Separate Peace, which were basically that he was pretty sure there wasn't one, but he'd keep up the ceremony just in case. If God was benevolent, he ought to be cool with that.
I wasn't implying the inquisition, actually. In fact, I tend to think of more recent examples of acts of violence or resistance to technological or scientific pursuits in the name of religious views.
Because it is relevant:
B
Biannoshufu
really MD? picture-meme? You? That's....inelegant.
GasBandit
Staff member
Aaand nyoinked.I wasn't implying the inquisition, actually. In fact, I tend to think of more recent examples of acts of violence or resistance to technological or scientific pursuits in the name of religious views.
Because it is relevant:
I was really going for a broader perspective though, rather than just specifically the inquisition or the opposition to abortion, cloning, or stem cell research. My assertion is that, if we could magically edit out the christian from the militant, they'd still be a militant, and another noun would serve just as well.
GasBandit
Staff member
...Or so they would have you believe.
No no, there's actual proof. You don't need belief for this one.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/21/quiznos-bankruptcy_n_905864.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/21/quiznos-bankruptcy_n_905864.html
GasBandit
Staff member
That's just their public facade. The creeping Quiznosian Menace continues to squelch its way across the cobblestones tread by decent folk even to this day. In the shadows, its unsightly, unbearable, pustular sauces continue to claim the sanity of those who just wanted a damn sandwich that didn't taste like it'd been carried all day in a plumber's buttcrack. You may forget them for now, little by little. But once you've dismissed them entirely out of your mind...
They'll get you.
Fixed
Isn't "militant Shegokigo" redundant?More appropriately...
You're an odd person. Do you think bankruptcy means that they've lost? They've still got over 2,500 locations (about half what they had at their height).
Keep in mind that subway had over 22,000 locations in the US in 2009 - so even at their height quiznos was only 1/4 what subway was.
So, I guess you're saying since they only have 10% the number of locations then they've lost?
They are currently restructuring, and are purported to be nearing an agreement: http://www.restfinance.com/content/story.php?article=00673
They didn't go belly up, or close up shop. Many of their franchisees did close their businesses, but that's almost a separate issue.
Reports seem to suggest that the corporate headquarters tried doing some interesting things with franchisee pricing, which lead the franchisees to form an association in order to combat what they felt were unfair requirements (such as all food must be purchased from the corporation, rather than sourced locally).
The argument as to which is better is still an open discussion - that has little to do with their ability to remain profitable, but personal tastes.
I am shamed. /hang head
Militant Atheist needs a Hammer and Sickle and the millions dead in gulags, pogroms, and starvation...
A bit out-dated, but true. Also, not all faiths were persecuted in that situation. It wasn't entirely a religious war.
- Status