At least none of you said that Sandusky is like a silver medalist...
[NCAAF] Goodbye Joe Pa
- Thread starter Mathias
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Go fuck yourself, Charlie.
Necronic
Staff member
I'm sorry but I don't consider the reportng done on his part to be sufficient. Things like that can't just be passed up the chain of command and then forgotten. Especially not by a head coach. He can't act like he's some PFC out on his first patrol that's afraid of pushing against the establishment. He is, in fact, a leader of that organization in so many ways. It's not like he forgot it. You don't forget the fact that the dude you have worked with for 30 years, who has almost had child molestation charges brought against him, was reported by one of your graduate coaches to be having anal with a 10 year old child.
That's not something you forget. He CHOSE not to act further. And whether this act was to hide the truth or it was cowardice of pushing against the administration, it is not a fitting characteristic of a head coach.
That said he should have been allowed to retire, and not been fired. If the firing was to protect the "Penn State Brand" then firing him did just as much harm to it.
That's not something you forget. He CHOSE not to act further. And whether this act was to hide the truth or it was cowardice of pushing against the administration, it is not a fitting characteristic of a head coach.
That said he should have been allowed to retire, and not been fired. If the firing was to protect the "Penn State Brand" then firing him did just as much harm to it.
That was to Joe Paterno, I have nothing against Penn State.
Dave
Staff member
I don't get this. You said they were dead to you but when he denigrates the University you get mad at him?
Am I missing something?
Anyone on the board of regents of the university from any point before 2002 should be fired via phone call.
Necronic
Staff member
He's going through some confusing emotions. That will happen when you give a shit about a university's athletic department.
So basically Joe Pa sent it up the ladder YEARS ago and then when his superiors did nothing he did nothing? Is this kind of the gist of the thing? Because if it is I'm having a hard time feeling sorry for either of the guys who got fired and even harder for the jackasses who rioted over it last night. I mean, are there really people who are more concerned with winning a football game over stopping innocent children from being raped and abused?
Apparently so, and they're running Penn State.
Yes, this applies to anyone rioting for JoePa's job and all the rich/powerful dudes that perpetrated this over the last 10+ years.
C
Chibibar
Sadly, a lot of things (not just sports) people tend to bury stuff in hope NOT to tarnish their reputation (look at Catholic Church scandal) I don't approve of this method, but there are more people out there who believe it would quietly go away if ignored.
Edit: I wonder if Joe Pa was told by the higher up that "they will handle it" or is there a contract agreement or something that made Joe Pa not to investigate further?
Now, on Joe Pa side, he heard from an assistant and told the assistant to report to higher up. I don't think Joe Pa is responsible at this point. What would you have him do? launch a personal investigation? what if the assistant didn't actually see and then tarnish reputation of another person due to whatever reason (revenge could be on) so they follow procedure and report higher up and internal investigation.
Now if Joe Pa saw it himself and didn't report to the police, that is a different story.
Lets see... are we focusing the blame on the perpetrator? Are we focusing the blame on the witness to the crime being committed? Are we focusing the blame on the administrators whose job responsibility it is to investigate and they failed at? No, we are focusing the blame on the coach who was told a story about it and didn't pass it along to enough people.
Look at the headlines. It's all about PATERNO-SEX SCANDAL. I don't see many Sandusky headlines - or that the dude's out on bail.
That's what most of the rioting in Happy Valley is about. And, yeah, a good portion of all the anti-JoePa sentiment is from rival schools. So can we please stop playing the "think of the children card?" If people gave a damn about the children, the press would have been all over Sandusky in 98.
Look at the headlines. It's all about PATERNO-SEX SCANDAL. I don't see many Sandusky headlines - or that the dude's out on bail.
That's what most of the rioting in Happy Valley is about. And, yeah, a good portion of all the anti-JoePa sentiment is from rival schools. So can we please stop playing the "think of the children card?" If people gave a damn about the children, the press would have been all over Sandusky in 98.
My anger at JoePa and joy at him being fired doesn't mean I'm not upset at the AD/President/McQueery. I'm flummoxed as to why McQueery is still coaching this Saturday.
My relief more comes because I thought it was a very real possibility that JoePa still got to retire "on his own terms" after his actions in the wake of all this and his cult of personality bullshit.
My relief more comes because I thought it was a very real possibility that JoePa still got to retire "on his own terms" after his actions in the wake of all this and his cult of personality bullshit.
The press would have had an easier time being all over Sandusky if Paterno had told them what he knew.
Fuck you, Dave. Just because I support one of my childhood heroes doesn't make me a supporter of child molestation. If he was directly responsible for any of this, I'd be right there telling them to hang him by his balls. Fact is he's a coach who did what he was legally obligated to do, and the moral nay-sayers crucified him saying he should have done more. You work at a university administration office. You know how this shit works. He's not the athletic director, he's a coach. As a coach it's his responsibility to report things like this to his superiors - which he did.
The board of trusties milked the guy for money and his entire football program since 66', and when shit hit the fan, they threw him to the wolves. That's what I'm pissed about. If Paterno goes, the whole entire fucking administration post-2002 should be exchanged.
And yes, Nectrotic, I do care about the 'stupid' athletic program at Penn State . I am a Penn State alum. I've given money to support the kinds of programs that Sandusky used to rape children. I've met Paterno. This hits very close to home for me, and I am pissed.
As a man, it's his responsibility to report this kind of thing to the police.
He handed the witness over to the man in charge of the police. Since nothing happened he may have thought the county refused to prosecute again.
look just shut the fuck up with all your hindsight bullshit. If someone reported something like that to me while I was at work, I would also report it to my supervisor and HR, assuming they would do their damn job. That's how it works in any sort of administrative collective, but I guess you wouldn't know that since you're jobless and watch movies at home all day.
I have a job. Unlike Joe Paterno.
C
Chibibar
I don't support child abuse of any kind. It gets my blood boil. Sandusky should be punish to a level I can't even describe cause it would be borderline on human torture.
with that note, I do agree with Mathias. There are protocol within a work place that people follow. Now the highers ups ARE responsible for not processing this not Joe Pa. this was report upward to people higher than Joe Pa why aren't they being prosecuted and/or fired?
The AD and President of the university have also been fired/forced out.
C
Chibibar
and why they are not continually being stalk like Joe Pa? why all the headline are still after him? That is all I see in the news. The other coach involved still coaching right? (someone mention it) I am not much of a sports fan so I don't keep up, but this article and thread (and bunch on Yahoo news) pulled me in.
Don't worry. Paterno has his wife, kids, and a substantial amount of the entire state of Pennsylvania to comfort him through his rough times (not to mention that the guy is still going to collect a shit ton of money even after leaving PSU). You have... your movies...
It may even be worse than we know...
http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/news?slug=ycn-10407023
Everybody involved needs to be purged from PSU, and even then the school's reputation is basically destroyed for years.
http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/news?slug=ycn-10407023
Everybody involved needs to be purged from PSU, and even then the school's reputation is basically destroyed for years.
Here's an interesting tidbit: at the time of the 2002 incident, Schultz (the VP who also oversaw the university police) was aware of the 1998 investigation, and still declined to inform the police. Indeed, he never even sought to read the '98 report.
The only action taken was to 'prohibit' Sandusky from bringing children with him onto campus.
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Piotyr, if that's true, holy shit.
Necronic
Staff member
The reason people are talking about Paterno is twofold:
1) He's the name everyone recognizes, I mean he is a FAMOUS dude in the sports world. Not a good reason really.
and
2) He's the only one where there is gray area. Sandusky and the administrators are clearly in the wrong. There's no question about that. They deserved to be fired/prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. With Paterno there is controversy about whether he should have done more. And because there is controversy, there is coverage.
I still feel that he should have done more. Situations like this can't be written off by saying it went through the proper channels/buereacracy. That's the "following orders" defense, and that's unnacceptable for a head coach. If he was still seeing this dude around the athletics area, and probably sitting next to him at fund raisers/boosters and shaking hands etc, how could he NOT have it in the back of his mind that this issue was not resolved?
It's not a matter of his legal obligation. Doing the minimum required by law is not nearly enough for a leader in his position.
Maybe he did push things more behind the scenes, but if so he should be claiming so now.
1) He's the name everyone recognizes, I mean he is a FAMOUS dude in the sports world. Not a good reason really.
and
2) He's the only one where there is gray area. Sandusky and the administrators are clearly in the wrong. There's no question about that. They deserved to be fired/prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. With Paterno there is controversy about whether he should have done more. And because there is controversy, there is coverage.
I still feel that he should have done more. Situations like this can't be written off by saying it went through the proper channels/buereacracy. That's the "following orders" defense, and that's unnacceptable for a head coach. If he was still seeing this dude around the athletics area, and probably sitting next to him at fund raisers/boosters and shaking hands etc, how could he NOT have it in the back of his mind that this issue was not resolved?
It's not a matter of his legal obligation. Doing the minimum required by law is not nearly enough for a leader in his position.
Maybe he did push things more behind the scenes, but if so he should be claiming so now.
I understand your need to lash out, but this isn't about me. I'm not the one that allowed children to be anally raped by my associates.
Or so you say.
Are you this brazen and thick headed in person? If so, how many times a day does someone punch you in the face?
C
Chibibar
We all play hindsight 20/20 in this but what if you hear a rumor that one of your co-workers were into drugs or child rape? do you go directly to the police ASAP? or you report to HR first? What if you did report and investigation was done and "nothing was found" Do you pursue your own investigation on a rumor/second hand reports? do you still go to the police? what if nothing actually happen and it was just a stupid rumor one of the OTHER co-worker started and you got fired for filing false report and tarnish the company's name? Or what if nothing was done and you thought it was just a rumor only later it was true and YOU were fired from the job? how does that make you feel? you did your job.
Now, right now, all we have is that Joe Pa was told by another coach that this is going on once (according to reports) and Sandusky was suppose to be slated to "replace" Joe Pa (according to the article above) so in Joe Pa's shoe maybe this coach wanted the job too and may make false rumors and Joe Pa left the higher up to handle it cause he didn't witness it himself.
I know it didn't happen with PSU but procedure was followed and nothing was reported in the higher up.
I know we all have our morals and judgment but how far are you willing to go without concrete proof (at the time) are you willing to risk your own reputation and job for a possible false rumors?
Seeing from the other side if Joe Pa did continue and report to the police and it turn out nothing happen and it was just a wild rumor, more than likely back in 98 Joe Pa might get fired for ruining the school reputation back then on false rumors.
Do you disagree that Joe Paterno could have prevented up to a dozen children's rapes if he had been more concerned with what was right instead of his legacy, the institution of Penn State, and protecting his friends?
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