Why haven't JRPGs evolved?

Frank · Jan 9, 2012

It's still the binary light/dark thing. It's a God damn Bioware game, since the BG games, it's all they know.

Bowielee · Jan 9, 2012

I want binary choices in a Star Wars game. There's the light side and the dark side, the only middle ground would be with mercenaries and bounty hunters because the force doesn't apply to them.

Espy · Jan 9, 2012

I love a good linear game and since most RPG games "choices" don't mean shit for the most part I guess I'm more concerned with the story than if I'm allowed to make some dumb decision that has next to no impact.

GasBandit · Jan 9, 2012

Remember when games had multiple endings? That's hard to pull off in most MMOs, pretty sure. Skyrim is pretty much the blueprint for doing "decisions" right though. There are many decisions over the course of the game that determine the overall story, even though the final battle will always be against the same dude. Most of the problems with Skyrim aren't authorship, but rather technical gripes. The UI, the bugs, the glitches.

@Li3n · Jan 9, 2012

But they have evolved... just into something you dislike... TRUTH.

Bowielee · Jan 9, 2012

@Li3n said:
But they have evolved... just into something you dislike... TRUTH.

That sounds familiar somehow...

Adam · Jan 9, 2012

What exactly is the difference between a JRPG and a WRPG?

Frank · Jan 9, 2012

JRPGs are made in Japan, generally have very little character customization and are usually very linear.

WRPG are made in ze west, often have very heavy character customization and can be a little more to much more open ended.

GasBandit · Jan 9, 2012

Adammon said:
What exactly is the difference between a JRPG and a WRPG?

It's not exact, but there are demonstrated tendencies.
JRPGS tend to have -
turn-based combat
bright colors/flashing lights
girlyboy people with huge eyes
Linear storylines/scripted worlds
Impossible/exaggerated artistry in costumes/weapons/hair
Character archetypes/conflicts rooted in japanese cultural concepts
Deep plots with 9 or more huge twists that rend your brain and make you play through multiple times to understand wtf is going on
specifically pre-created characters you take control of

WRPGS tend to have -
real time/action oriented combat
grittier/edgier/darker overtones
beefmonster people with squinty eyes
flexible storylines/open worlds
somewhat more realistic models at the possible expense of artistry
character archetypes/conflicts rooted in (duh) western cultural concepts
a plot as deep as most sandboxes... but you can make your own story in a sandbox.
build-your-own-character characters.

And so forth. Some games do mix and match, but those are general tendencies.

Adam · Jan 9, 2012

Merci for la explication.

I would submit that JRPGs in the West met their popularity zenith over the Final Fantasy 4-5-6-7-8 period and have been dying (literally) to recreate that peak. Remembering that Japanese culture is inherently conservative, I don't think we should be terrible surprised they're not evolving at a faster pace.

ElJuski · Jan 9, 2012

Parasite Eve was pretty badass, though.

Frank · Jan 9, 2012

Parasite Eve was Japan's attempt to appeal to American gamers, hence the everything but the kitchen sink gameplay approach.

AshburnerX · Jan 9, 2012

Frankie Williamson said:
Parasite Eve was Japan's attempt to appeal to American gamers, hence the everything but the kitchen sink gameplay approach.

Actually, Parasite Eve mainly served as a testbed for the graphics and CGI engine for Final Fantasy 8. They were unsure how people would react to the (at the time) very real looking people and decided that it might be wise to do a little "open market testing" to see if they were in the Uncanny Valley or not. Parasite Eve passed on that front, so they kept the engine instead of overhauling all the art.

Hailey Knight · Jan 9, 2012

AshburnerX said:
Actually, Parasite Eve mainly served as a testbed for the graphics and CGI engine for Final Fantasy 8. They were unsure how people would react to the (at the time) very real looking people and decided that it might be wise to do a little "open market testing" to see if they were in the Uncanny Valley or not. Parasite Eve passed on that front, so they kept the engine instead of overhauling all the art.

I find it funny that Parasite Eve was the superior game.

AshburnerX · Jan 9, 2012

Quotemander Prime said:
I find it funny that Parasite Eve was the superior game.

That's partly because they ran out of time and money. Originally FF8 was going to be two games: Squall's story and Laguna's story. But because they needed money very badly at the time (and weren't entirely sure how the fans would react to have a direct sequel to a FF game) they nixed the two games idea, instead combining the story into one game... and cutting huge chunks of Laguna's story out. Pretty much all of the plot, pacing, and characterization issues come from the fact that they cut out like 40% of the story.

The gameplay problems? That was just shitty design.

Frank · Jan 9, 2012

AshburnerX said:
Actually, Parasite Eve mainly served as a testbed for the graphics and CGI engine for Final Fantasy 8. They were unsure how people would react to the (at the time) very real looking people and decided that it might be wise to do a little "open market testing" to see if they were in the Uncanny Valley or not. Parasite Eve passed on that front, so they kept the engine instead of overhauling all the art.

I still feel what I said was pretty right, they basically tossed every game system they had developed in the 32 bit era into, ATB, the Vagrant storyish movement, all the upgrading, etc.
Added at: 18:06

AshburnerX said:
That's partly because they ran out of time and money. Originally FF8 was going to be two games: Squall's story and Laguna's story. But because they needed money very badly at the time (and weren't entirely sure how the fans would react to have a direct sequel to a FF game) they nixed the two games idea, instead combining the story into one game... and cutting huge chunks of Laguna's story out. Pretty much all of the plot, pacing, and characterization issues come from the fact that they cut out like 40% of the story.

The gameplay problems? That was just shitty design.

That seems to be pretty normal for Final Fantasy games. The vast gutting of parts of the game.

AshburnerX · Jan 10, 2012

Frankie Williamson said:
I still feel what I said was pretty right, they basically tossed every game system they had developed in the 32 bit era into, ATB, the Vagrant storyish movement, all the upgrading, etc.

Parasite Eve came out in 1998. Vagrant Story wasn't out till 2000 and it's movement isn't AT ALL like it is in Parasite Eve.

@Li3n · Jan 10, 2012

Frankie Williamson said:
It's still the binary light/dark thing. It's a God damn Bioware game, since the BG games, it's all they know.

Meh, most of the time the non light/dark choices are just being an asshole for yourself or just being one for no reason...

AshburnerX · Jan 10, 2012

@Li3n said:
Meh, most of the time the non light/dark choices are just being an asshole for yourself or just being one for no reason...

I've actually had some weird ones pop up in the Bounty Hunter arc. For instance, killing one of your targets is a Light Side option. Leaving another to die a rather grisly death in space (instead of letting him out of his cell to fight) is also a lightside option. Asking for money is occasionally a Light Side option as well.