Blaming Stabenow for 40 years of United States Foreign policy is quite stupid.
[News] Debbie Spend-It-Now
- Thread starter Charlie Don't Surf
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All I could think was "Welcome to politics. Mind you don't trip over the dead body of Reason while you are here."
Depends, are you clean?
GasBandit
Staff member
GasBandit
Staff member
Nobody I know.
Why is going "other nation bad" always considered racist? A number of people in this thread have done it. Yes certain nations (usually not new-world) are usually fairly mono-ethnic, but I still think it's a legitimate question on whenever somebody says "watch out for X nation" they're automatically accused of "you're racist." "Nation-ist" (if that's a word, more often "patriot" IMO) but how is it racism? It certainly can slip into that easily, but how is it by default?
And China has cars now...
GasBandit
Staff member
Outline for subroutine "isitracist()"
Are you white?
Yes:goto next
No:return(NotRacist);
Are they white?
Yes:return(NotRacist)
No:goto next;
Is humor involved?
Yes:return(RACIST!)
No:goto next;
Is it a discussion about the underlying causes of economic disparity?
Yes:return(RACIST!)
No:goto next;
Is it nothing but complete, unadulterated praise that contains no negativity or realism whatsoever?
Yes:return(NotRacist)
No:return(RACIST!);
end.
I don't know how to read that code bullshit, but I just assumed GasBandit posted something dumb about how minorities are the true racists
GasBandit
Staff member
No, actual racism IS a problem. Being professionally offended is also a problem, but in a very different way.
And I think it's just as dangerous to make excuses for behavior like that exhibited in the political ad as it is to act out the racism in other ways. There is a huge difference between the Avenue Q thing, which makes the point you two are making, and what is going on in the political ad. One is mild and pokes fun at racial stereotypes that we all have ingrained in us, the other plays on fears to exploit a stupid populous and perpetuate that fear.
I find it sad that people can't see that difference.
I find it sad that people can't see that difference.
GasBandit
Staff member
Actually, in Gas world, gravity of incredible severity crushes everything deep in a smothering blanket of opaque fog and storm. So.. uh.. I guess Krisken was right, racism isn't really an issue there.
I think Eriol is right - you guys are mixing racism with nationalism.
I don't see it that way. While the overtones are definitely nationalist in nature, the undertones are to play on fears of people who are different. When that shit will have an impact on people at home, it's no longer just nationalism. Think back to how the Japanese citizens here were treated during WW2 to get an idea of how this kind of thing isn't just nationalist in nature, but racist as well.
Necronic
Staff member
Actually I can't watch videos at work so i have no idea what's in either video, I'm just making a general statement.
But for specifics one thing I remember from the '08 elections was a conversation I had with my brother who is a hardcore liberal. He had just written a piece for some leftist political website and it referenced the supposed underlying theme of racism in the campaigns. I hadn't seen any of this (aside from the wingnuts of course), and when he described the argument to me I didn't see any racism, just political criticism. He wanted to see racism so that he could discredit his opponents on this point instead of having to answer the actual statements themselves. It is simply easier to attack the arguer than the argument.
The whole issue is delicate and difficult and we all have to be aware what we are doing, even the white knights (is it racist that the white knights are the good guys?)
I think a good lesson in this can be found here:
I want to tell you a story. I want you to create the picture in your minds eye. I want you to think about it. This is a story about a corrupt politician. He used his position of influence and power as unethical leverage in many areas. He took illegal payments from companys and lobbiests in a quid-pro-quo system. He used unethical practices in his campaigns to subvert the opposition voters. He maintained multiple affairs with members of his staff. He used his contacts to cover up crimes committed by friends and family, possibly even going so far as to have committed manslaughter and have it covered up. He used his inside knowledge and abilities to get favorable contracts for his business partners and made vast sums of money. He wore a smile as he lied to his constituency about his actions and his motivations.
He is the lecherous washington fatcat and moral black hole that is the embodyment of so much that is wrong with this country. I want you to imagine his plastic smile, overgroomed hair, and dead eyes. I want you to picture this politician in your mind.
Now I want you to imagine that he's black.
But for specifics one thing I remember from the '08 elections was a conversation I had with my brother who is a hardcore liberal. He had just written a piece for some leftist political website and it referenced the supposed underlying theme of racism in the campaigns. I hadn't seen any of this (aside from the wingnuts of course), and when he described the argument to me I didn't see any racism, just political criticism. He wanted to see racism so that he could discredit his opponents on this point instead of having to answer the actual statements themselves. It is simply easier to attack the arguer than the argument.
The whole issue is delicate and difficult and we all have to be aware what we are doing, even the white knights (is it racist that the white knights are the good guys?)
I think a good lesson in this can be found here:
I want to tell you a story. I want you to create the picture in your minds eye. I want you to think about it. This is a story about a corrupt politician. He used his position of influence and power as unethical leverage in many areas. He took illegal payments from companys and lobbiests in a quid-pro-quo system. He used unethical practices in his campaigns to subvert the opposition voters. He maintained multiple affairs with members of his staff. He used his contacts to cover up crimes committed by friends and family, possibly even going so far as to have committed manslaughter and have it covered up. He used his inside knowledge and abilities to get favorable contracts for his business partners and made vast sums of money. He wore a smile as he lied to his constituency about his actions and his motivations.
He is the lecherous washington fatcat and moral black hole that is the embodyment of so much that is wrong with this country. I want you to imagine his plastic smile, overgroomed hair, and dead eyes. I want you to picture this politician in your mind.
Now I want you to imagine that he's black.
I swear that I'm not uh. Just trying to be too cool and subvertin your thing there, but I honestly pictured the patriarch of the Ford Family in TN politics that did a lot of that crazy scummy stuff all up in Nashville. The matriarch of the family was famously riding in a limosine back from State Senate on the interstate, and a car was following her too close, so she came up out of the sunroof and fired a pistol at the other motorist. No one was hurt, and of course she didn't go to jail or anything.
ElJuski
Staff member
I just get sick of this "is this racist" conversation from people that have only truly witnessed black (or any minority) culture through a safe distance or television lens. Context is everything, and the truly racist don't have depth of context as much as they have rationale for their judgment. This comes from an academic perspective, too, as I think a bunch of entitled white kids picking apart minority culture from the distance of a classroom can be just as disconcerting (although it's a "better" start, I guess?). And obviously this can work the other way around, too, although I find that to be less of a problem because male white culture has been pretty much the norm for thousands of years.
So why do I think Gas' stupid little Basic bullshit is wrong? Being "edgy" is not an excuse for being ignorant, or lazy. And usually lazy mockery simply comes from a shallow understanding, hence, ignorance.
So why do I think Gas' stupid little Basic bullshit is wrong? Being "edgy" is not an excuse for being ignorant, or lazy. And usually lazy mockery simply comes from a shallow understanding, hence, ignorance.
What is a minority culture? Doesn't that just rely on stereotypes? Or is it considered economic rather than ethnic?
I ask this because until I got to college I really didn't notice much of this stuff. Not because I never experienced people of different races, but because that was a lot of what I knew. My school was not white-majority. I was the only white kid at my lunch table and the guys I hung out with there were black, Arab, and Hispanic. That didn't even occur to me until well after I graduated. The only time race issues seemed to ever come up was when one asshole tried to blow up another kid's house--which is pretty fucking extreme. You'd think there would be some under-current, some foundation racist stuff, and hell, maybe the high school's changed since I graduated, but I lived in a very mixed community. People were just people.
Now where I live, there's a very visible dividing line, and largely the race lines of area fall where they do because of economics. My wife and I still live in a mixed community where white is not the majority though. That's what we can afford and I honestly wouldn't want to live around the local yuppies anyway. People seem to get along here, even when they can barely speak each other's language.
But I've never been to Texas, so maybe Gassy knows something I don't.
I ask this because until I got to college I really didn't notice much of this stuff. Not because I never experienced people of different races, but because that was a lot of what I knew. My school was not white-majority. I was the only white kid at my lunch table and the guys I hung out with there were black, Arab, and Hispanic. That didn't even occur to me until well after I graduated. The only time race issues seemed to ever come up was when one asshole tried to blow up another kid's house--which is pretty fucking extreme. You'd think there would be some under-current, some foundation racist stuff, and hell, maybe the high school's changed since I graduated, but I lived in a very mixed community. People were just people.
Now where I live, there's a very visible dividing line, and largely the race lines of area fall where they do because of economics. My wife and I still live in a mixed community where white is not the majority though. That's what we can afford and I honestly wouldn't want to live around the local yuppies anyway. People seem to get along here, even when they can barely speak each other's language.
But I've never been to Texas, so maybe Gassy knows something I don't.
ElJuski
Staff member
I mean, we live in the same area these days, so I'm sure you see the same thing, and yeah, I would think economics has a lot to do with it, but socialization does, too. Different groups of people create different cultures, and these come up in racial, economic, geographic lines--among others. There's a slight difference in making a joke about carryout and mumbo sauce, for instance, versus saying, "Black people loooooove dat dere KFC! A hyuck hyuck!"
I think, too, the more I mull it over, is that it's not racist if it offers up conversation between these various lines, versus simply shouting something over it, if you catch my drift.
Added at: 13:49
Also, and I'm not implying anyone is, but being able to count off how many black or Mexican or Chinese friends doesn't count. I had a pretty interesting conversation with one of my students about why saying "no homo" was lazy and stupid. His big thing was, "But I know a bunch of gay dudes, so it's okay", to which my response was, "Okay to who?"
I think, too, the more I mull it over, is that it's not racist if it offers up conversation between these various lines, versus simply shouting something over it, if you catch my drift.
Added at: 13:49
Also, and I'm not implying anyone is, but being able to count off how many black or Mexican or Chinese friends doesn't count. I had a pretty interesting conversation with one of my students about why saying "no homo" was lazy and stupid. His big thing was, "But I know a bunch of gay dudes, so it's okay", to which my response was, "Okay to who?"
No one's doing "I'm not racist, my friend is black" here--the conversation is going on about what racism is. I was just giving some background on why I asked. I just think that sometimes when people are laying down those lines, they think they saw a culture based on race, when really they're seeing one based on income.
The ad in the OP is trying to attack stuff with economics, but is painting it all over with racism.
Stop calling everyone a racist, you racist.
I had a gay black friend. That's a two-fer.
GasBandit
Staff member
But was he in the KKK?
And yet Jon Stewart is the most revered news source on the internet.
John Stewart is revered because, despite what his critics say, he shows an insightful sophistication when dealing with his guests that other hosts lack... and he does it without calling them monsters or unamerican, which is something his "rivals" can't go a day without doing. He's also able to trounce even notoriously hard interviews like Bill O'Reily without sinking to their level.
It's just that he does it between the dick and fart jokes.
It's just that he does it between the dick and fart jokes.
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