[Gaming] Final Fantasy

[BananaHands]

So I'm playing Final Fantasy XIII... and I just have to ask.

Remember when Final Fantasy used to put out solid storylines and battle systems? I can barely handle this game. You literally tap 'X' and they pick the best moves for the characters. Also, you only control one.

 

[Hailey Knight]

I'm looking forward to Spoony's in-depth review. His rant was great, but I want him to fully pick this one apart.

 

[ThatNickGuy]

FF XII (12, in case some think that was a typo) was the first time I ever skipped the intro cinematics in a Final Fantasy game. It was also the first FF that I stopped playing after about half an hour.

I didn't last even ten minutes with XIII.

 

[BananaHands]

Seriously. I never missed the older games more. There's no way to play this game differently than anyone else. At least in other games you had choices.

 

[Frank]

12 is under appreciated. It's better than any of the post PS1 era of the games.

 

[BananaHands]

12 is under appreciated. It's better than any of the post PS1 era of the games.

I agree, I just thought the auto-fighting was kind of stupid.

 

[Frank]

I liked the gambit system, though you could take full command of any character at any time in 12 and control them entirely manually if you wanted. I think the only real weakness 12 had was some weak ass dungeon design.

 

[Shegokigo]

The thing that turned me off completely to FFXII that FFX and X-2 did beautifully was a complete lack of Class System. They even proved it was a mistaken when they released the FFXII Intl edition later on with fully customizable "class" trees.

 

[BananaHands]

The thing that turned me off completely to FFXII that FFX and X-2 did beautifully was a complete lack of Class System. They even proved it was a mistaken when they released the FFXII Intl edition later on with fully customizable "class" trees.

I think that's my biggest problem with FFXIII. The class leveling system is ridiculous and confusing. I miss materia.

 

[Frank]

5 (and later Tactics) had it best. The job system is the most fun Final Fantasy can be.

I know 3 was the originator of the job system (albeit more simple) but I never played 2 or 3. 2 I hear is just a dreadful, dreadful game.

 

[Shegokigo]

Believe it or not, FFX-2 had a really amazing class system with the Dress Spheres. Problem is noone (wanted to) played it.

I really do love choosing the role my characters have.

 

[Frank]

I liked 10-2 more than 10 because it made much better use out of it's ridiculous setting than the awful 10. It didn't take itself seriously. 10 was too fucking serious.

 

[ThatNickGuy]

See, I respectfully disagree on the job system. From a customization perspective, sure, they're great. You can do whatever you want with whatever character. My beef, however, is that it moves away from each character's individual strengths. That's why I liked FF IV and similar games the most: each character had their own strengths and weaknesses. Along with that, the team kept changing around, so you had to figure out new strategies as a result. IV never gets boring for because of that. It keeps mixing things up, both in terms of characters and gameplay. The core elements remain throughout (Fight, Magic, etc), but it's mixed up.

That's part of why I'm not a huge fan of FF VI (though I still love it): you start the game in the same sense. Each character has their own strengths, abilities, and weaknesses. And at first, you're able to incorporate different magic to all your characters. But by the end of the game, those character-defining abilities are lost in the shuffle as you're relying pretty much only on magic. Sure, Gau could learn some powerful monster abilities, but why bother when you can just train him on the spells you need. Basically, the character's uniqueness got lost in lieu of magic.

 

[Frank]

FF IV is basically a fixed Job system game. They all had jobs from 3 (and 5) with their specific abilities.

 

[Shegokigo]

Yet like I mentioned in the other thread Nick, when you have to have so many characters to flesh out your "classes" you end up with a much more shallow cast of characters.

I'd rather have a set 4-6 characters to watch/learn about and customize them to the class I want. How that removes them from their individual strengths is news to me.

EX: FFXII - Ashe = Knight/Pld, Penelo = White Mage/Bard, Vaan = Thief/Ninja, Balthier = Ranger etc etc

Seems to me it would have made them much more about their individual strengths.

 

[BananaHands]

That's part of why I'm not a huge fan of FF VI (though I still love it): you start the game in the same sense. Each character has their own strengths, abilities, and weaknesses. And at first, you're able to incorporate different magic to all your characters. But by the end of the game, those character-defining abilities are lost in the shuffle as you're relying pretty much only on magic. Sure, Gau could learn some powerful monster abilities, but why bother when you can just train him on the spells you need. Basically, the character's uniqueness got lost in lieu of magic.

I can actually agree with you on that one. I think that's one of the reasons I actually enjoyed parts of IX. Sure, it was ridiculous and the characters weren't the greatest... but each character had a role and you just had to arrange the team to work with that. I think VII's success came from characters having loose, but set roles and you could customize it while taking advantage of their different limit breaks and whatnot.

But then there's X. Where you friggin' have to depend on an asshole who throws a fucking ball to deal with flying creatures.

 

[ThatNickGuy]

In his defence, you could get spiked balls eventually. Which was kinda cool. Kinda being the operative word.

 

[BananaHands]

Oh, out of curiosity... Who do you all think was the best character in regards to story?



Here's some music to think it over with.

 

[ThatNickGuy]

Yet like I mentioned in the other thread Nick, when you have to have so many characters to flesh out your "classes" you end up with a much more shallow cast of characters.

But see, the setback that I'm talking about isn't the large mass of characters, many of whom aren't as fleshed out as others (which I totally agree with you on that). It's that by the end of the game, there's such a great emphasis on getting spells for your characters, that their intellectuality is kind of lost. It's less about using, say, Cyan's sword techniques but rather the spells that you upgraded him with.
Added at: 14:55

Oh, out of curiosity... Who do you all think was the best character in regards to story?.

I'm likely biased because of my love for the game, but I have to go with FF IV's Cecil. He had a great redemption storyarc that drove the narrative. That said, once he became a paladin, that was basically the end of his character development. His relationship with Rosa still moved the plot forward, but it wasn't as interesting as the redemption aspect.

I'm sure there are others that have a stronger character development overall. I'd have to think about it more, though.

 

[Frank]

Basch and Ashe's arc probably, in regards to Bananahand's question.

 

[ThatNickGuy]

FF IV is basically a fixed Job system game. They all had jobs from 3 (and 5) with their specific abilities.

Exactly, which is why I enjoyed it so much. It was less about customization and more about strategizing strengths and weaknesses depending on who was on your team.

 

[Shegokigo]

I can't see your video (stupid work filter) but easily the best characters, storywise, was:

Terra - FFVI - Her coming to the realization of her birth origin and finding her place in the post apocolyptic world was amazing. When you find her, it really hits you as to how she found peace and the power that grows due to it. (Notable mentions: Locke's Rachel situation. Setzer's romance arc.)

Sephiroth - FFVII - No, seriously. His entire image was ruined by the fanboi/gurl nation that followed the series but his story was fantastic. A villain that was "created by his circumstances/situations" and not just "evil for the sake of it". Watching how he went from hero to ultimate threat to the world was fantastic as well as his connection to the main character. (Notable mention: Tifa's long history with Zach and how Cloud fell into that role)

Cecil - FFIV - His journey from Dark Knight of Baron to Paladin of Light is simply perfect. If you've played FFIV, you know. If you haven't, you should. It's a great story. The Golbez reveal alone was worth it. (Notable mentions: Tellah's sorrow driven revenge plot, Kain's love triangle)

The Entire Cast of FFT - FFT - Because yeah, it's a beautiful story of tragedy and hope all rolled into one with an ending that's simply describable as poetic.

 

[Tress]

I was going to say Ramza and Delita, but I think Shego summed it up nicely.

 

[AshburnerX]

I would say the character with the most fleshed out and impressive Story is probably ether Cecil, Kain, or Golbez from FF4. Of course, this is mostly thanks to having two games to flesh it out in.

If not them, then maybe Zack from FF7/Crisis Core.

However, the one with the most INTERESTING story is probably Ashley Riot from Vagrant Story. You might call this a cheat, but it's part of the Ivalice Alliance series, so it's Final Fantasy in my book. Ashley's search for the truth about his past and the eventual realization that it really doesn't matter what actually happened, only how it made him the person he is now, is pretty epic in it's own right.

 

[ThatNickGuy]

Although I wouldn't call him either the best or my favourite character, I loved Gau's storyarc in VI. Specifically, in the World of Ruin, when they find his father. The conclusion to that was, to me, one of the most moving moments in the game.

 

[BananaHands]

FFT's story. Holy shit.

Best game in that series.

The only other character I'd add to Sheg's list would be Laguna Loire from Final Fantasy VIII. The man goes from a bumbling, clumsy soldier to the President of the largest nation all just to save his daughter.

 

[Shegokigo]

FFVII, FFIV, FFV spoilers ahead, pass this over if you haven't finished all 3.
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You know what drives me nuts? When people say that the connection that Cloud and Aerith had was so amazing and powerful that when she dies, it has such a hard impact on them.

Uhhh, what connection? There's never a connection. I mean it was shocking as all hell to have a main character die mid game (Tellah did it first, like a baws and then Galuf did it in FFV) but to say there was some major romantic connection that moved you upon her death? I call bullshit.

 

[Calleja]

I miss the Junction system from VIII, but I'm in a minority there.... I played the fuck out of that game.

 

[Frank]

I miss the Junction system from VIII, but I'm in a minority there.... I played the fuck out of that game.

Yes you are. Drawing was tedious and being punished by weakening your characters for using spells was lame.

 

[AshburnerX]

I actually liked the Gambit system from 12. Really made it simpler for me to do specific things, like having one guy always steal so I'd get anything that monsters had, or having my healer cast Cure whenever someone' HP was low.

The part that was bullshit? Having to buy Gambits. That was lame... you should have had them all at the start.

 

[Frank]

I actually liked the Gambit system from 12. Really made it simpler for me to do specific things, like having one guy always steal so I'd get anything that monsters had, or having my healer cast Cure whenever someone' HP was low.

The part that was bullshit? Having to buy Gambits. That was lame... you should have had them all at the start.

I didn't like buying them, but having to acquire the good ones added something to the game I think.

 

[Shegokigo]

My problems with FFVIII were obviously the gameplay (Junction system) and the fact that I didn't like ANYONE in the cast. They were all annoying and unlikeable with the exception of (maybe) Quistis. Otherwise?

Squall - Do I even need to explain this cold, wooden, emotionless flesh sack?
Rinoa - I love you.... umm... because! It's a love story now!
Selphie - Sugar filled optimism without a lick of personality
Irvine - Wanted to like him, he even had a nice little bit of character growth but sadly still ended up pretty flat.
Zell - See Selphie, add penis.

Honestly the interesting characters weren't the "main plot"

Cid's connection to the Garden was deeper than anyone previously thought, and the reveal of who he was to Edea was jaw dropping.
Edea - an amazing sorceress possessed by a stronger one due to the power she weilded. Her connection to the main cast was so touching.
Laguna - Even though huge chunks of the story are missing, the way he starts to where he ends up is just inspiring.

 

[BananaHands]

FFVII, FFIV, FFV spoilers ahead, pass this over if you haven't finished all 3.
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You know what drives me nuts? When people say that the connection that Cloud and Aerith had was so amazing and powerful that when she dies, it has such a hard impact on them.

Uhhh, what connection? There's never a connection. I mean it was shocking as all hell to have a main character die mid game (Tellah did it first, like a baws and then Galuf did it in FFV) but to say there was some major romantic connection that moved you upon her death? I call bullshit.

Because some people might not have played FF7...

Spoiler

People forget that Cloud and Aerith only had a connection because Cloud had practically absorbed Zack's personality and Aerith obviously was attracted to anything that resembled Zack.

Then there's poor Tifa. She lies for Cloud because she felt sorry for him. She saves him after he becomes cationic. Hell, Cloud practically hands Sephiroth the means to end the world and Tifa is still in his corner.

Added at: 21:18
And yes. FFVIII had a terrible main cast and an incredible supporting cast.
Added at: 21:22

Also, if you're bored and want to see how to overanalyze a game.

Spoiler

http://squallsdead.com/

 

[CynicismKills]

Character wise, from the games I've played (spoilers, obviously):
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IV: Cecil and Kain. Cecil's wrestling with orders and being loyal to a country only pushing for power (with a phony king to boot), and his subsequent fight for redemption and acceptance by those he wronged (Palom, Porom, the town of Mysidia, Rydia). Kain's constant fight for control of his own mind and will form Golbez, and again the redemption following his freedom. I like IV's story because to me, it was the last one to take risks with the story. V did it with Galuf, but IV wasn't afraid to make you watch party members go out like heroes. Granted not all of them were dead for good, but you don't know this till nearly the end of the game. Even Edward, who's useless as shit every time you take him along (unless you play the re-release on DS or PS1, then he's a little less useless) proves he's something special.

VI: Cyan and Setzer. Cyan's tragedy of a life from the moment Kefka camps the army by Doma to his journey for revenge and accepting the loss of his loved ones and home. It's a beautiful, albeit short, story, but it cemented him as one of my favorite FF characters (even if he's a huge pervert in the Japanese version). Setzer seems like a suave gambler, but one scene was all he needed to really stand out. The descent to Daryl's airship in the World of Ruin, and the scenes played as you see his life with someone he admired like a hero. Everyone's stories were pretty great in this game, even Strago's (an old hero who wants to prove it one last time).

VII: This one is kinda hard as I feel like this is where the character development started to decline compared to the old days. I'd have to go with Cid here. Shinra takes everything from him, but through it all he refuses to give up the sky he loves, no matter how surly he's become over the years. Tifa is another good one, doing everything for a man who's not even the one she remembers from childhood. Zack is a close third, after playing Crisis Core he turns out to be the baddest of dudes in the FFVII universe.

Tactics: The whole goddamn thing. I love this story, the characters, everything. It's just so good.

VIII: It's all pretty much junk to me here, I hate this game. Don't think I really had a favorite.

IX: It's been a loooooooong time, so I honestly can't remember here.

X: As much as people hate him, and as annoying as he is early on, Tidus. He starts out a whiny, annoying bitch, but eventually realizes there's a lot for him in this world, even if his is just a dream. The ending was pretty solid, and I really wish FFX-2 had been a new FF with new characters, because I felt bringing him back cheapened the original X's ending.

XII: I've actually not completely finished this, but Basch and Baltheir have quickly become my favorites.

XIII: My 360 died awhile back so I never finished this, but really nobody stood out for me much.

 

[Jay]

Final Fantasy is dead to me and had been for well over a decade. This series has turned into something I no longer find interesting or entertaining. It's become a cliché of itself. I do however still manage play the games a few hours (for free of course, thanks to a friend who buys every game for the sake of having the games.. that freak).... and maybe like Frankie I have a masochistic need to get emotionally abused by watching this once amazing series proverbially shit the bed with the best gaming budgets available to most companies.

I don’t how people can defend the last game. The 13th game was simply horrible. HORRRRIBLE!!! This isn't a simple case of me outgrowing something I used to love ... Final Fantasy XIII was just exceptionally lousy overall. To me, it's an exemplary guidebook on how not to make a video game. It's a bargain bin direct-to-DVD CG anime that Square Enix mashed up with a PS3 shovelware game with an astronomical graphics budget that many good gaming companies can only dream of getting.

When you're advancing through linear as fuck maps, you only want to get to the next cutscene already to get your next dose of hammy voice acting and to look at the beautiful character models and while you're watching the cutscenes all you want is for everyone to shut up so you can get back to moving forward through "The Map Tube" and wishing you were watching the next cutscene already.

I won't even go into detail with the abusing relationship with the gamers to switch whatever the fuck you needed to switch around during the battle system in this game. YOU'RE A RAVAGER! YOU'RE A COMMANDER! DERP DERP DERP. Press one button! Really? Did 35 million dollars of development amount to this?

This is not healthy people. Games should not be like this in this day and age. I hope the recent success with Skyrim will provide a vastly better product for this genre in the next few years as companies change their shitty ways. But maybe I’m being too optimistic. JPRGs are a different beast altogether... with tentacles probing for your private parts.

But what else could you expect from Final Fantasy anyways? Craptastic was the only possible destination for a franchise (and company) that has allowed itself to become so useless and morbidly bloated on its own self-importance. Square Enix doesn't care though and it doesn't need to care. It knows full well that its every release is going to sell millions of copies due to brand recognition, the thousands of desperate fans in their mid to late twenties still hoping for another shot of the soma they felt from being a teen and playing Final Fantasy VI for the first time.

Square Enix also knows that the mainstream gaming press will always be inclined to treat its latest massive Final Fantasy production with care. Have you seen the fucken reviews for this game? The game received an 8.5 out of 10 score from GameSpot, 8.9 out of 10 from IGN, 4.5 out of 5 from GamePro, a 5 out of 5 from Playstation Official Magazine (the fuck), a 9 out of 10 from Official XBox Magazine, and an 8 out of 10 from Eurogamer. These people proverbially get on their knees and suck Square Enix’s cock for this game franchise and Square Enix.

There is no other video game franchise on the planet that could have gotten away with this.

None.