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So I'm playing Final Fantasy XIII... and I just have to ask.

Remember when Final Fantasy used to put out solid storylines and battle systems? I can barely handle this game. You literally tap 'X' and they pick the best moves for the characters. Also, you only control one.

I'm looking forward to Spoony's in-depth review. His rant was great, but I want him to fully pick this one apart.

FF XII (12, in case some think that was a typo) was the first time I ever skipped the intro cinematics in a Final Fantasy game. It was also the first FF that I stopped playing after about half an hour.

I didn't last even ten minutes with XIII.

Seriously. I never missed the older games more. There's no way to play this game differently than anyone else. At least in other games you had choices.

12 is under appreciated. It's better than any of the post PS1 era of the games.

Frankie Williamson said:

12 is under appreciated. It's better than any of the post PS1 era of the games.

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I agree, I just thought the auto-fighting was kind of stupid.

I liked the gambit system, though you could take full command of any character at any time in 12 and control them entirely manually if you wanted. I think the only real weakness 12 had was some weak ass dungeon design.

The thing that turned me off completely to FFXII that FFX and X-2 did beautifully was a complete lack of Class System. They even proved it was a mistaken when they released the FFXII Intl edition later on with fully customizable "class" trees.

Shegokigo said:

The thing that turned me off completely to FFXII that FFX and X-2 did beautifully was a complete lack of Class System. They even proved it was a mistaken when they released the FFXII Intl edition later on with fully customizable "class" trees.

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I think that's my biggest problem with FFXIII. The class leveling system is ridiculous and confusing. I miss materia.

5 (and later Tactics) had it best. The job system is the most fun Final Fantasy can be.

I know 3 was the originator of the job system (albeit more simple) but I never played 2 or 3. 2 I hear is just a dreadful, dreadful game.

Believe it or not, FFX-2 had a really amazing class system with the Dress Spheres. Problem is noone (wanted to) played it.

I really do love choosing the role my characters have.

I liked 10-2 more than 10 because it made much better use out of it's ridiculous setting than the awful 10. It didn't take itself seriously. 10 was too fucking serious.

See, I respectfully disagree on the job system. From a customization perspective, sure, they're great. You can do whatever you want with whatever character. My beef, however, is that it moves away from each character's individual strengths. That's why I liked FF IV and similar games the most: each character had their own strengths and weaknesses. Along with that, the team kept changing around, so you had to figure out new strategies as a result. IV never gets boring for because of that. It keeps mixing things up, both in terms of characters and gameplay. The core elements remain throughout (Fight, Magic, etc), but it's mixed up.

That's part of why I'm not a huge fan of FF VI (though I still love it): you start the game in the same sense. Each character has their own strengths, abilities, and weaknesses. And at first, you're able to incorporate different magic to all your characters. But by the end of the game, those character-defining abilities are lost in the shuffle as you're relying pretty much only on magic. Sure, Gau could learn some powerful monster abilities, but why bother when you can just train him on the spells you need. Basically, the character's uniqueness got lost in lieu of magic.

FF IV is basically a fixed Job system game. They all had jobs from 3 (and 5) with their specific abilities.

Yet like I mentioned in the other thread Nick, when you have to have so many characters to flesh out your "classes" you end up with a much more shallow cast of characters.

I'd rather have a set 4-6 characters to watch/learn about and customize them to the class I want. How that removes them from their individual strengths is news to me.

EX: FFXII - Ashe = Knight/Pld, Penelo = White Mage/Bard, Vaan = Thief/Ninja, Balthier = Ranger etc etc

Seems to me it would have made them much more about their individual strengths.

ThatNickGuy said:

That's part of why I'm not a huge fan of FF VI (though I still love it): you start the game in the same sense. Each character has their own strengths, abilities, and weaknesses. And at first, you're able to incorporate different magic to all your characters. But by the end of the game, those character-defining abilities are lost in the shuffle as you're relying pretty much only on magic. Sure, Gau could learn some powerful monster abilities, but why bother when you can just train him on the spells you need. Basically, the character's uniqueness got lost in lieu of magic.

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I can actually agree with you on that one. I think that's one of the reasons I actually enjoyed parts of IX. Sure, it was ridiculous and the characters weren't the greatest... but each character had a role and you just had to arrange the team to work with that. I think VII's success came from characters having loose, but set roles and you could customize it while taking advantage of their different limit breaks and whatnot.

But then there's X. Where you friggin' have to depend on an asshole who throws a fucking ball to deal with flying creatures.

In his defence, you could get spiked balls eventually. Which was kinda cool. Kinda being the operative word.

Oh, out of curiosity... Who do you all think was the best character in regards to story?



Here's some music to think it over with.

Shegokigo said:

Yet like I mentioned in the other thread Nick, when you have to have so many characters to flesh out your "classes" you end up with a much more shallow cast of characters.

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But see, the setback that I'm talking about isn't the large mass of characters, many of whom aren't as fleshed out as others (which I totally agree with you on that). It's that by the end of the game, there's such a great emphasis on getting spells for your characters, that their intellectuality is kind of lost. It's less about using, say, Cyan's sword techniques but rather the spells that you upgraded him with.
Added at: 14:55

BananaHands said:

Oh, out of curiosity... Who do you all think was the best character in regards to story?.

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I'm likely biased because of my love for the game, but I have to go with FF IV's Cecil. He had a great redemption storyarc that drove the narrative. That said, once he became a paladin, that was basically the end of his character development. His relationship with Rosa still moved the plot forward, but it wasn't as interesting as the redemption aspect.

I'm sure there are others that have a stronger character development overall. I'd have to think about it more, though.

Basch and Ashe's arc probably, in regards to Bananahand's question.

Frankie Williamson said:

FF IV is basically a fixed Job system game. They all had jobs from 3 (and 5) with their specific abilities.

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Exactly, which is why I enjoyed it so much. It was less about customization and more about strategizing strengths and weaknesses depending on who was on your team.

I can't see your video (stupid work filter) but easily the best characters, storywise, was:

Terra - FFVI - Her coming to the realization of her birth origin and finding her place in the post apocolyptic world was amazing. When you find her, it really hits you as to how she found peace and the power that grows due to it. (Notable mentions: Locke's Rachel situation. Setzer's romance arc.)

Sephiroth - FFVII - No, seriously. His entire image was ruined by the fanboi/gurl nation that followed the series but his story was fantastic. A villain that was "created by his circumstances/situations" and not just "evil for the sake of it". Watching how he went from hero to ultimate threat to the world was fantastic as well as his connection to the main character. (Notable mention: Tifa's long history with Zach and how Cloud fell into that role)

Cecil - FFIV - His journey from Dark Knight of Baron to Paladin of Light is simply perfect. If you've played FFIV, you know. If you haven't, you should. It's a great story. The Golbez reveal alone was worth it. (Notable mentions: Tellah's sorrow driven revenge plot, Kain's love triangle)

The Entire Cast of FFT - FFT - Because yeah, it's a beautiful story of tragedy and hope all rolled into one with an ending that's simply describable as poetic.

I was going to say Ramza and Delita, but I think Shego summed it up nicely.

I would say the character with the most fleshed out and impressive Story is probably ether Cecil, Kain, or Golbez from FF4. Of course, this is mostly thanks to having two games to flesh it out in.

If not them, then maybe Zack from FF7/Crisis Core.

However, the one with the most INTERESTING story is probably Ashley Riot from Vagrant Story. You might call this a cheat, but it's part of the Ivalice Alliance series, so it's Final Fantasy in my book. Ashley's search for the truth about his past and the eventual realization that it really doesn't matter what actually happened, only how it made him the person he is now, is pretty epic in it's own right.

Although I wouldn't call him either the best or my favourite character, I loved Gau's storyarc in VI. Specifically, in the World of Ruin, when they find his father. The conclusion to that was, to me, one of the most moving moments in the game.

FFT's story. Holy shit.

Best game in that series.

The only other character I'd add to Sheg's list would be Laguna Loire from Final Fantasy VIII. The man goes from a bumbling, clumsy soldier to the President of the largest nation all just to save his daughter.

FFVII, FFIV, FFV spoilers ahead, pass this over if you haven't finished all 3.
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You know what drives me nuts? When people say that the connection that Cloud and Aerith had was so amazing and powerful that when she dies, it has such a hard impact on them.

Uhhh, what connection? There's never a connection. I mean it was shocking as all hell to have a main character die mid game (Tellah did it first, like a baws and then Galuf did it in FFV) but to say there was some major romantic connection that moved you upon her death? I call bullshit.

I miss the Junction system from VIII, but I'm in a minority there.... I played the fuck out of that game.

Calleja said:

I miss the Junction system from VIII, but I'm in a minority there.... I played the fuck out of that game.

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Yes you are. Drawing was tedious and being punished by weakening your characters for using spells was lame.

I actually liked the Gambit system from 12. Really made it simpler for me to do specific things, like having one guy always steal so I'd get anything that monsters had, or having my healer cast Cure whenever someone' HP was low.

The part that was bullshit? Having to buy Gambits. That was lame... you should have had them all at the start.

AshburnerX said:

I actually liked the Gambit system from 12. Really made it simpler for me to do specific things, like having one guy always steal so I'd get anything that monsters had, or having my healer cast Cure whenever someone' HP was low.

The part that was bullshit? Having to buy Gambits. That was lame... you should have had them all at the start.

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I didn't like buying them, but having to acquire the good ones added something to the game I think.

My problems with FFVIII were obviously the gameplay (Junction system) and the fact that I didn't like ANYONE in the cast. They were all annoying and unlikeable with the exception of (maybe) Quistis. Otherwise?

Squall - Do I even need to explain this cold, wooden, emotionless flesh sack?
Rinoa - I love you.... umm... because! It's a love story now!
Selphie - Sugar filled optimism without a lick of personality
Irvine - Wanted to like him, he even had a nice little bit of character growth but sadly still ended up pretty flat.
Zell - See Selphie, add penis.

Honestly the interesting characters weren't the "main plot"

Cid's connection to the Garden was deeper than anyone previously thought, and the reveal of who he was to Edea was jaw dropping.
Edea - an amazing sorceress possessed by a stronger one due to the power she weilded. Her connection to the main cast was so touching.
Laguna - Even though huge chunks of the story are missing, the way he starts to where he ends up is just inspiring.

Shegokigo said:

FFVII, FFIV, FFV spoilers ahead, pass this over if you haven't finished all 3.
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You know what drives me nuts? When people say that the connection that Cloud and Aerith had was so amazing and powerful that when she dies, it has such a hard impact on them.

Uhhh, what connection? There's never a connection. I mean it was shocking as all hell to have a main character die mid game (Tellah did it first, like a baws and then Galuf did it in FFV) but to say there was some major romantic connection that moved you upon her death? I call bullshit.

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Because some people might not have played FF7...
Added at: 21:18
And yes. FFVIII had a terrible main cast and an incredible supporting cast.
Added at: 21:22

Also, if you're bored and want to see how to overanalyze a game.

Character wise, from the games I've played (spoilers, obviously):
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IV: Cecil and Kain. Cecil's wrestling with orders and being loyal to a country only pushing for power (with a phony king to boot), and his subsequent fight for redemption and acceptance by those he wronged (Palom, Porom, the town of Mysidia, Rydia). Kain's constant fight for control of his own mind and will form Golbez, and again the redemption following his freedom. I like IV's story because to me, it was the last one to take risks with the story. V did it with Galuf, but IV wasn't afraid to make you watch party members go out like heroes. Granted not all of them were dead for good, but you don't know this till nearly the end of the game. Even Edward, who's useless as shit every time you take him along (unless you play the re-release on DS or PS1, then he's a little less useless) proves he's something special.

VI: Cyan and Setzer. Cyan's tragedy of a life from the moment Kefka camps the army by Doma to his journey for revenge and accepting the loss of his loved ones and home. It's a beautiful, albeit short, story, but it cemented him as one of my favorite FF characters (even if he's a huge pervert in the Japanese version). Setzer seems like a suave gambler, but one scene was all he needed to really stand out. The descent to Daryl's airship in the World of Ruin, and the scenes played as you see his life with someone he admired like a hero. Everyone's stories were pretty great in this game, even Strago's (an old hero who wants to prove it one last time).

VII: This one is kinda hard as I feel like this is where the character development started to decline compared to the old days. I'd have to go with Cid here. Shinra takes everything from him, but through it all he refuses to give up the sky he loves, no matter how surly he's become over the years. Tifa is another good one, doing everything for a man who's not even the one she remembers from childhood. Zack is a close third, after playing Crisis Core he turns out to be the baddest of dudes in the FFVII universe.

Tactics: The whole goddamn thing. I love this story, the characters, everything. It's just so good.

VIII: It's all pretty much junk to me here, I hate this game. Don't think I really had a favorite.

IX: It's been a loooooooong time, so I honestly can't remember here.

X: As much as people hate him, and as annoying as he is early on, Tidus. He starts out a whiny, annoying bitch, but eventually realizes there's a lot for him in this world, even if his is just a dream. The ending was pretty solid, and I really wish FFX-2 had been a new FF with new characters, because I felt bringing him back cheapened the original X's ending.

XII: I've actually not completely finished this, but Basch and Baltheir have quickly become my favorites.

XIII: My 360 died awhile back so I never finished this, but really nobody stood out for me much.

Final Fantasy is dead to me and had been for well over a decade. This series has turned into something I no longer find interesting or entertaining. It's become a cliché of itself. I do however still manage play the games a few hours (for free of course, thanks to a friend who buys every game for the sake of having the games.. that freak).... and maybe like Frankie I have a masochistic need to get emotionally abused by watching this once amazing series proverbially shit the bed with the best gaming budgets available to most companies.

I don’t how people can defend the last game. The 13th game was simply horrible. HORRRRIBLE!!! This isn't a simple case of me outgrowing something I used to love ... Final Fantasy XIII was just exceptionally lousy overall. To me, it's an exemplary guidebook on how not to make a video game. It's a bargain bin direct-to-DVD CG anime that Square Enix mashed up with a PS3 shovelware game with an astronomical graphics budget that many good gaming companies can only dream of getting.

When you're advancing through linear as fuck maps, you only want to get to the next cutscene already to get your next dose of hammy voice acting and to look at the beautiful character models and while you're watching the cutscenes all you want is for everyone to shut up so you can get back to moving forward through "The Map Tube" and wishing you were watching the next cutscene already.

I won't even go into detail with the abusing relationship with the gamers to switch whatever the fuck you needed to switch around during the battle system in this game. YOU'RE A RAVAGER! YOU'RE A COMMANDER! DERP DERP DERP. Press one button! Really? Did 35 million dollars of development amount to this?

This is not healthy people. Games should not be like this in this day and age. I hope the recent success with Skyrim will provide a vastly better product for this genre in the next few years as companies change their shitty ways. But maybe I’m being too optimistic. JPRGs are a different beast altogether... with tentacles probing for your private parts.

But what else could you expect from Final Fantasy anyways? Craptastic was the only possible destination for a franchise (and company) that has allowed itself to become so useless and morbidly bloated on its own self-importance. Square Enix doesn't care though and it doesn't need to care. It knows full well that its every release is going to sell millions of copies due to brand recognition, the thousands of desperate fans in their mid to late twenties still hoping for another shot of the soma they felt from being a teen and playing Final Fantasy VI for the first time.

Square Enix also knows that the mainstream gaming press will always be inclined to treat its latest massive Final Fantasy production with care. Have you seen the fucken reviews for this game? The game received an 8.5 out of 10 score from GameSpot, 8.9 out of 10 from IGN, 4.5 out of 5 from GamePro, a 5 out of 5 from Playstation Official Magazine (the fuck), a 9 out of 10 from Official XBox Magazine, and an 8 out of 10 from Eurogamer. These people proverbially get on their knees and suck Square Enix’s cock for this game franchise and Square Enix.

There is no other video game franchise on the planet that could have gotten away with this.

None.

Dayum, Jay. Tell us how you really feel.

I'd let Jay suck a dick for a brand newly released 2d Final Fantasy with a larger storyline than anything previously done and the most amazing 2d graphics we've ever seen.

I like FF8.

The junction system isn't bad at all once you figure out that the game didn't intend for you to get all your spells via drawing. You were supposed to play the card game and refine the cards into magic.

It wasn't the "drawing" that was necessarily bad bhamv3, it was the fact that once you had 99 of a spell junctioned, casting that spell actually weakened the effectiveness of your character instead of making it something you'd WANT to do.

IX is still my favorite I think, they did a pretty amazing job with character development in that game imo. Needing to collect every item in the game to get all your skills was annoying, but I can let it slide.

I do agree though, on FFXIII especially. It felt lazy. From X on you lost the overworld map, and thus the exploration and wonder factor of those big continents in the days of SNES/PS1. Hell, I remember jumping through time in Chrono Trigger, going to 65M BC, and realizing I was basically on the continents of 600/1000 AD before goddamn Tectonic shifts. That's amazing.

But XIII killed that. You don't even see a large terrain map until nearly halfway through the game, and when you get there everything rapes you to death because they're waaaaaaay over your level (unless you stayed in tunnel #1,089 to grind out some points to level). XII felt more like an MMO in some respects, though I don't fault it as hard as I do XIII. The Paradigm was interesting at first, until I realized you really only needed like 3 set ups and you could win any fight without much effort on your part. At that point it turned into me running through tunnels and watching cutscenes for a story I stopped caring about. I doubt we'll ever really see something like IV/VI or VII again, save for rehashes on DS or maybe PSP, which makes me sad.
Added at: 14:28

Dei said:

IX is still my favorite I think, they did a pretty amazing job with character development in that game imo. Needing to collect every item in the game to get all your skills was annoying, but I can let it slide.

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I liked the item thing because it did two things for me. One, reminded me of Tactics, and the other being gave me more than a leveling reason to stop and grind a bit. Made it pretty easy to stomp through most of the game, really.

There's not enough love for FFT in this thread. It's only been mentioned as amazing maybe 6 times.

I lost track of how many times I replayed or worked on various save files. I remember finding out that when you swap Ramza back to Squire in the final act he's basically a demigod. With the Ninja dual-wield he was a killing machine, build up attack with Scream and then let him loose. Oneshots, oneshots everywhere!

SpecialKO said:

There's not enough love for FFT in this thread. It's only been mentioned as amazing maybe 6 times.

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I tried it once and didn't like it. I wasn't crazy about the incredibly long battle sequences.

CynicismKills said:

I do agree though, on FFXIII especially. It felt lazy. From X on you lost the overworld map, and thus the exploration and wonder factor of those big continents in the days of SNES/PS1. Hell, I remember jumping through time in Chrono Trigger, going to 65M BC, and realizing I was basically on the continents of 600/1000 AD before goddamn Tectonic shifts. That's amazing.

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I give FFXII a pass on the "No overhead map" thing because you essentially walk everywhere and it takes you a fair amount of time to get to places. It's also supposed to be taking place in a VERY small country, so it makes sense that most of the locations are within land travel distance from one another.

FFX doesn't get the same pass, as it's clear that your essentially traveling over the entire world to get to these temples. The means that it's a very tiny fucking world, if you can make most of the trip on foot.

XII I didn't mind the loss of the overworld map, because without those Teleport stones it would take HOURS to get from one map to the next as mobs didn't give any fucks about your level, they'd just leap on you. X was like it took place in one city with how small it all ends up feeling.

Hey guys, remember when FFT's only problem was THAT IT WAS ABSOLUTELY AMAZING?

I remember trying to play different Final Fantasy games, and each time thinking they blew, and then being told by a different person that I should try some OTHER one, because it was GREAT, and not like the previous AT ALL...


They were all boring. Granted, I like Parasite Eve. Take that as you will.

ThatNickGuy said:

I tried it once and didn't like it. I wasn't crazy about the incredibly long battle sequences.

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While they were definitely a bit long, it also depended on how you wanted to set up your builds. Stocking up on giving your guys high move/jump capabilities often helped you end battles within a handful of turns (and some plot battles within a single turn). You definitely didn't need to play that way of course.

I liked murdering all but one of the enemy and then status-affecting him into being completely ineffective and then grinding XP by punching my own party members in the face.

Monks were the ultimate XP team builders! Everyone Chakra!

I just had dancers and bards set up, and then I went AFK. >.>

Well yeah, but pre Dancer/Bards, which came much later usually.

Kill all, leave one, Chakra party.

BananaHands said:

Hey guys, remember when FFT's only problem was THAT IT WAS ABSOLUTELY AMAZING?

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This may be my favorite post.

Here's my FFT story: At one point, I sold every Playstation game I had, over 30 of them, when I went to college. But not Final Fantasy Tactics.

Tactics only has one problem in its current PSP incarnation, and that's the fucking re-translation into what the Japanese think people spoke like in medieval Europe. Though I like the new additions, like the new classes, extra characters, and lag (erm...), I'm actually thinking of buying the PS1Classic version of FFT from the PSN store and playing that on the go. The game was as perfect as it could be. It needed nothing else.
Added at: 18:04

ElJuski said:

They were all boring. Granted, I like Parasite Eve. Take that as you will.

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Parasite Eve was great. There's not some divide between that and liking/disliking Final Fantasy.

Quotemander Prime said:

This may be my favorite post.

Here's my FFT story: At one point, I sold every Playstation game I had, over 30 of them, when I went to college. But not Final Fantasy Tactics.

Tactics only has one problem in its current PSP incarnation, and that's the fucking re-translation into what the Japanese think people spoke like in medieval Europe. Though I like the new additions, like the new classes, extra characters, and lag (erm...), I'm actually thinking of buying the PS1Classic version of FFT from the PSN store and playing that on the go. The game was as perfect as it could be. It needed nothing else.

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I liked Balthier's addition in FFT, but I couldn't stand those accents. I think it could have gone without those anime scenes.
Added at: 02:53
Oh, I went to see what the deal with FFXIV was... apparently it was even worse than FFXIII and Square Enix even released an apology.

Wasn't that the worst MMO ever where they needed to relaunch it?

At least we'll always have Kefka.

Jay said:

Wasn't that the worst MMO ever where they needed to relaunch it?

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Yeah. Did the PS3 version ever come out?

Dei said:

IX is still my favorite I think, they did a pretty amazing job with character development in that game imo. Needing to collect every item in the game to get all your skills was annoying, but I can let it slide.

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Yay someone else loves IX! :3
I hated the card game in IX but love everything else about that game. Oh wait, I also really dislike Quina. Aaand I got really lucky when I beat the game. I didn't realize I was at the end and most my characters were half-dead when I found Kuja. Some how I survived each wave while almost having multiple heart attacks.

I quite professed my love for FFIX in the first page

Quotemander Prime said:

Yeah. Did the PS3 version ever come out?

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Yep! Playing it right now, actually. Downloaded it after my Kefka post.

Shegokigo said:

I quite professed my love for FFIX in the first page

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And I as well.

Okay, I skimmed most of the first page. >.> Read most, didn't want to read spoilers since I haven't finished most the games (yeah, yeah, I'm halfway through most of them and I've somehow avoided ALL spoilers), and skimmed the rest. I think I have game ADD.
I get all giddy when people love FFIX. ~<3

Leveling Cloud was always hilarious, because I'd just take his weapon away and let him punch Ramza in the gut until an NPC killed itself on my Counter characters. Ramza was always my highest level once I got Scream, as it was a free 30-40xp per use even when you stopped getting stat bonuses from it. Easiest leveling ever.

I'm sorry, I can't hear this thread over how awesome Frog is.

I liked FF9 until I popped in the 3rd CD.... then I was berated into submission with a 2 hour long cutscene that destroyed the storyline in my face.

Jay said:

I liked FF9 until I popped in the 3rd CD.... then I was berated into submission with a 2 hour long cutscene that destroyed the storyline in my face.

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I thought you were going to say that your CD froze. Because mine did. I have owned 3 copies of the game and played through the first half countless times. The CD would act up, I'd stop playing for a while and try to pick it up again. My problem, besides gaming ADD, is that if I pick up a game after it's been a while... I always start over. @_@

Who's got two thumbs and enjoyed FF XIII?




I have no guilt or shame.

I played through 9 but I can't for the life of me remember much about anything that happened in it.

I do remember some of the town music was so terrible that I had to turn sound completely off.
Added at: 01:40


Here we go. 10 minutes of this became indistinguishable from nails on a fucking chalkboard.

Oh god, that music. I always enjoyed the music in 8... and then 9 always just sounded like MIDI files.



Probably the one good song... and even then...

You guys are just haters.



For me, IX was an amazing game with the worst end boss of any game in the series. I mean, Kuja was weird, but at least he would've made sense as the last boss.

Really? Because the tune I posted is legitimately terrible whining noises.

Frankie Williamson said:

Really? Because the tune I posted is legitimately terrible whining noises.

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Oh, not referring to that, referring to BH saying that You're Not Alone was the only decent song. Vamo Alla Flamenco is one of my favorites of the series. Yeah, that town music is terrible.

Piotyr said:

For me, IX was an amazing game with the worst end boss of any game in the series. I mean, Kuja was weird, but at least he would've made sense as the last boss.

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Final Fantasy 8 and 9 were both kind of ruined by their end bosses (10 as well) that had virtually nothing to do with anything or were just mentioned throughout the entire game. At least 12's main villain did end up being Vayne Solidor.

heatherling said:

My problem, besides gaming ADD, is that if I pick up a game after it's been a while... I always start over. @_@

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I hate that about myself. It doesn't even have to be that long of a while. Two months or so and I HAVE to start over. It just drives me crazy if I don't.

@Ravenpoe:

Shegokigo said:

I hate that about myself. It doesn't even have to be that long of a while. Two months or so and I HAVE to start over. It just drives me crazy if I don't.

@Ravenpoe:

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Frog and Magus were always on my team. It was the Frog and Magus show. Magus is the Vegeta to my frog's Goku. And not just because he's fucking drawn just like him.

But then Crono's drawn just like Goku... there can't be two Gokus...

Fuck it. Crono, you're demoted to Krillen.

Chrono needs a new game. QQ

And not some George Lucas addition on whatever the fuck will be the newest handheld of the month.

Ravenpoe said:

Fuck it. Crono, you're demoted to Krillen.

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Chrono dies is a mostly meaningless sacrifice. This is entirely Krillen like.

FFIX was 2 discs of a classy game, 1 disc of shit, and 1 disc of interesting ideas that hadn't been built up to in the slightest way.

Did they ever release FF5 in the US on the DS? Because the only experience I've had with the game is the shitty, shitty PSX port. Long load times, tons of crashes, and more than a few bugs ruined the experience for me. Near the end, I was literally redoing hour-long sections because the game would freeze up near the end.

Piotyr said:

You guys are just haters.



For me, IX was an amazing game with the worst end boss of any game in the series. I mean, Kuja was weird, but at least he would've made sense as the last boss.

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I think FF8 had the best music of the PSX FF games. Especially it's chocobo music which featured Nobuo Uematsu's then newfound love of his Fender Telecaster.

AshburnerX said:

Did they ever release FF5 in the US on the DS? Because the only experience I've had with the game is the shitty, shitty PSX port. Long load times, tons of crashes, and more than a few bugs ruined the experience for me. Near the end, I was literally redoing hour-long sections because the game would freeze up near the end.

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There's a GBA version.

Honestly one of my favorite things from the PS era on is that they started releasing Piano soundtracks.

Quotemander Prime said:

FFIX was 2 discs of a classy game, 1 disc of shit, and 1 disc of interesting ideas that hadn't been built up to in the slightest way.

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That's pretty damn accurate.

I assume Disc 3 was the disk of shit?

Jay said:

I assume Disc 3 was the disk of shit?

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Of course. My disc list was in order.

Was disk 3 the part where you're like, captured and have to go on the weird villain's quest to that castle and you can't do anything else besides this one huge mission?

I remember not enjoying that part at all. I don't want to think about how long it's been since I've played it though.

DAGGER CAN'T CONCENTRATE!

I know I'm 2 pages too late on this, but I've been sick, so feck off.

The funny thing about the Cloud/Aeris whatevermacallit... it was never an issue for me because I didn't much care for Aeris at all, and never put her in my party. It was always Cloud, Barrett and Tifa for me. I was more moved by most of the plotdeaths of main characters in the Phantasy Star series, really. Particularly in 2 and 4.

On the subject of 7, my ending party was Barrett and Cid, because I preferred their limit breaks over others. It did pain me to take Vincent out of my lineup, though.

And I think it was Yahtzee that pointed out that 7, while a good game in it's own right, was the start of the main FF series goin downhill. It became more centered on the story than the gameplay around then. I'm not sure if I agree 100% but I certainly see where he's coming from.

I'd have to play them again to be sure, but I think I agree with that statement. Final Fantasy from that point on slowly became more spectacle than gameplay.

I dunno... I'd say FFXII focused a lot on gameplay. It's just that it was gameplay that a lot of people didn't like.

phil said:

And I think it was Yahtzee that pointed out that 7, while a good game in it's own right, was the start of the main FF series goin downhill. It became more centered on the story than the gameplay around then. I'm not sure if I agree 100% but I certainly see where he's coming from.

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I think that's fair, though I think it would be more accurate to say that's when Square started thinking they were awesome at narrative by default, so any concept they came up with just rocked (when it didn't, really). So when every game had to have a spikey-haired pretty boy with sad exterior monologues, Square didn't notice that it wasn't that interesting (the best thing about Zidane in IX is that he didn't actually talk that much in comparison).

phil said:

On the subject of 7, my ending party was Barrett and Cid, because I preferred their limit breaks over others. It did pain me to take Vincent out of my lineup, though.

And I think it was Yahtzee that pointed out that 7, while a good game in it's own right, was the start of the main FF series goin downhill. It became more centered on the story than the gameplay around then. I'm not sure if I agree 100% but I certainly see where he's coming from.

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To me Final Fantasy 7 was a realization of the series' descent into minutia and appealing to completionists rather than focusing on the game as a whole. The games were becoming more and more about having as many hidden easter eggs, collectibles, arcane knowledge and everything else that needs a strategy guide to figure out. As much as I like some secrets, I don't want a game that feels like it's become about those secrets rather than the game itself.

AshburnerX said:

I dunno... I'd say FFXII focused a lot on gameplay. It's just that it was gameplay that a lot of people didn't like.

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I always felt like "where's the other two people to control the other characters sanely?" Would be a lot better multiplayer, because it's more-or-less a single-player MMO, but could use a better UI. What I didn't like is the prevalence of mobs that if you didn't interrupt their full-heal, you could battle forever, and/or if you didn't have EXACTLY what was needed, go grind to get it. The grind in that game was really brutal IMO. And that was even with killing all the mobs you come across, you STILL had to grind a lot. Say what you will about 13, at least the grinding was MUCH less through most of the game (ie: non-existent until you get to Pulse, and even then it's not "grind" per-se, but a lot of running around for small quests).

FFV is under-represented in its awesomeness IMO because of how hard it was to play during or near its heyday. I played it first on a translated ROM, and it held up. I would guess the GBA version would be good too (heard bad things about all the PSX ports). But honestly, it's a storyline that "makes sense" and there's an overarching villain that actually doesn't change right near the end or anything. A real gem that too few have played. Just get past the name of the main character (Butz in a lot of translations, though Bartz is also kinda "meh" for a name).

FFVI did everything right IMO. The only JRPG above it for me is Chrono Trigger, though we've already slid enough into why we all loved that game. But as for 6, it was the combination of unique abilities PLUS customizable magic that makes it my favorite for battle system. With 4, while an awesome game, you were fixed at any one point in the story for how to do things due to forced party members. It's great that it re-shuffles your party regularly, giving a wide variety of experiences, but it is the same at any one point through any subsequent playthrough, hurting replayability. It's great that it's so awesome by default. But with 6, each character is different, but there's enough overlap through magic that you also feel like YOU are in control to a certain extent, without being the "wide-open" of things like 7 and materia, or even 3, 5, and whatever other ones had a Job system, where it's "the characters are all the same and it's 100% me what I do with them." I liked the balance 6 gave. You COULD generify them all and play them all "the same" in 6, but most of the time you didn't, though it did gravitate towards the "uber" characters (if I could have had 4 Sabins, I probably would have).

Overall, I agree that they need to figure out what types of games they're making. 7 was the beginning of the decline.

GasBandit said:

The funny thing about the Cloud/Aeris whatevermacallit... it was never an issue for me because I didn't much care for Aeris at all, and never put her in my party. It was always Cloud, Barrett and Tifa for me. I was more moved by most of the plotdeaths of main characters in the Phantasy Star series, really. Particularly in 2 and 4.

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Dude, I loved PS4. The character deaths and the awesome music are very memorable to me.
Added at: 13:19

AshburnerX said:

I dunno... I'd say FFXII focused a lot on gameplay. It's just that it was gameplay that a lot of people didn't like.

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And what gameplay was prevalent in FF12 beyond pressing a single button? Or the tube vision that was spoon-fed to us?

Admit it, the game fucken suuuuuucked bro.
Added at: 13:23

Eriol said:

The only JRPG above it for me is Chrono Trigger, though we've already slid enough into why we all loved that game.

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Indeed.

And Earthbound....

It's hard to see Earthbound as a JRPG though, as it has so much "American Charm".

But yes, Earthbound was another one of those "look past the young audience looking graphics, you have an amazing game here".

Man, I would dig that guy doing the whole 10 minute Dancing Mad.

You know another awesome thing about almost the entire FF series? Fantastic villains. Sometimes they weren't the "final bad" but damn were they a thorn in your side in an awesome way the whole way through. Usually overshadowed the good guys in terms of personality and likeability.

FF1: Garland. Who saw that coming eh? Easy 1st boss but then......!
FF4: Golbez. His story in my opinion is what cinches FF4 as one of the greats.
FF5: Gilgamesh, still currently my second favorite villain of all the games. "EXCALIPOOR!"
FF6: Kefka. Do I really need to explain? "THERE'S SAND ON MY BOOT! Bwee hee hee!"
FF7: Sephiroth. Forget the stupid community that faboi/fangurl him, he was awesome in his game and his story was solid.
FF8: Seifer. His story and his crew were probably more interesting/entertaining to me than the main cast.
FF9: Kuja. See Kefka but more effeminate.
FF10: Sin/Jecht. A real apocolypse feeling bad guy and the truth behind Sin was freakin awesome.
FFT: Every villain. Seriously, this game had a ton but they were all awesome. My favorite "visually" would probably have been the Marquis Elmodre stuff.

Shegokigo said:

FFT: Every villain. Seriously, this game had a ton but they were all awesome. My favorite "visually" would probably have been the Marquis Elmodre stuff.

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This. What a bunch of total pricks. And they were great. Even minor, unimportant ones, like the guy spreading poison from the desert, or Weigraf's ex-right hand, had their own unique personality to add to the game, and their own effect on Ramza.

Earthbound is easily my favorite JRPG of all time, but this is a Final Fantasy thread so I won't go on a tangent about it. Personally I have trouble picking a best FF soundtrack, as Uematsu is just amazing at cranking out some of the best game music you'll ever hear, but I think I'd have to go with IV and VII, all in all. VI is a close third, with X at fourth. The piano collections for these are all great and you should check them out if you can find them. My personal favorite album, however, is Final Fantasy IV: Celtic Moon.





Also, for the more metal among you, Powerglove destroys this FFIV medley:

Quotemander Prime said:

This. What a bunch of total pricks. And they were great. Even minor, unimportant ones, like the guy spreading poison from the desert, or Weigraf's ex-right hand, had their own unique personality to add to the game, and their own effect on Ramza.

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The brothers. Oh wow the brothers.... The things they did. Amazing villainy.