[News] The Trayvon Martin Discussion Thread

sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

I have no problem with either "Castle Doctrine" or "Stand Your Ground." "Stand Your Ground" should not apply here because the killer chased the innocent kid down and assaulted him. Then it sounds like the kid defended himself and got shot for it. I cannot see how this case was dismissed so easily.
 
Charlie Don't Surf

Charlie Don't Surf

sixpackshaker said:
I have no problem with either "Castle Doctrine" or "Stand Your Ground." "Stand Your Ground" should not apply here because the killer chased the innocent kid down and assaulted him. Then it sounds like the kid defended himself and got shot for it. I cannot see how this case was dismissed so easily.
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"defended himself" by crying out in terror when a man with 100 pounds on him pointed a gun at him, yup, check.
 
strawman

strawman

GasBandit

GasBandit

Staff member
The man shot the kid and should be held accountable. "Castle Doctrine" and "Stand your ground" don't enter into it. If I'm driving my car and staying in my lane and yet still hit somebody, that doesn't mean we need to "revisit" the practice of issuing driver's licenses.
 
S

Soliloquy

Well, it certainly looks like Florida needs to revisit the way it applies the Castle Doctrine and Stand Your Ground laws, since they were going to let this guy walk.
 
AshburnerX

AshburnerX

Castle Law only comes into play if someone breaks into your home/car and refuses to stop/leave. The moment they start to leave, Castle Law goes away and you can't do anything to them without it being homicide.

The kid ran and was chased down. Castle Law does not apply.
 
Chippy

Chippy

Yeah, I'm not too big on guns or the castle law, but this is less of a Castle Law issue and more of a stupid racist asshole issue.
 
M

makare

What a tragic story.

If this is accurate to what happened I have to say this is the part that really made me go wtf!?
12. A police officer “corrected” a key witness. “The officer told the witness, a long-time teacher, it was Zimmerman who cried for help, said the witness. ABC News has spoken to the teacher and she confirmed that the officer corrected her when she said she heard the teenager shout for help.” [ABC News]

I mean, racist gun nut douche bags acting like racist gun nut douche bags is not that surprising but that is just terrifying.
 
figmentPez

figmentPez

Staff member
The part of all this that's making my head hurt is the comparison to Kony 2012. The idea that racism is the cause for this shooting not being talked about on Twitter in the same volume is disgusting, and illogical. I'm not going to even bother listing all the reasons why that's wrong. If you can't examine the issue for yourself and realize that it's far too complex to try to guilt people into feeling racist for not having been talking about this already, then you fail at some basic level. It could be a failure of logic, a poor understanding of how hit-or-miss social memes can be or maybe just poor perspective of scale, scope and time, but whatever the cause, just stop and think!
 
M

makare

And probably even more if it had been a rich white girl.

There is always someone more newsworthy.
 
sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

makare said:
And probably even more if it had been a rich white girl.

There is always someone more newsworthy.
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That only gets coverage when the girl goes missing. Then the media can make up fantastic stories about the girl being a sex-slave in Bahrain. Just like Dr. Phil did with Natalee Hollaway. He is a terrible person.
 
M

makare

I am really not sure why more news coverage is a good thing. What benefit to the family or the victim is there when the news story is wide spread?
 
S

Soliloquy

makare said:
I am really not sure why more news coverage is a good thing. What benefit to the family or the victim is there when the news story is wide spread?
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It did end up getting the feds involved. If it was ignored, media-wise, I bet the guy would have gotten away with it.

As far as the news coverage thing goes, I do have this to say: I work at a local news website, and decided that the federal involvement made it worth putting the story on the front page. Also on the front page was the third story that we've done about a certain white elementary school girl who was hit and killed by a school bus.

The white girl story got 25X as many views. It probably has a lot to do with it being a local story, but still.
 
Charlie Don't Surf

Charlie Don't Surf

makare said:
I am really not sure why more news coverage is a good thing. What benefit to the family or the victim is there when the news story is wide spread?
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In this case, more coverage and more outrage might lead to the killer being brought to justice so he doesn't do this sort of thing again. Or even possibly changes to the laws so less cowboy vigilantes like this sack of shit have guns.
 
strawman

strawman

The main problem is that the relevant law depends entirely on whether the person felt as though they were in danger or not.

We need to be able to say, "You may have felt your life was in danger, but that feeling was irrational - there was nothing in his manner, behavior, possessions, or ability that suggested your life was in imminent danger. Even though you felt you were in danger, you were wrong and thus the stand your ground law doesn't apply."

I don't necessarily think the law is wrong, but the fact that someone can say, "I felt my life was in danger from this toddler" and the prosecutor throws up her hands means that it's not being correctly applied. There should be a limit to what counts as a reasonable threat, and people should not be allowed to use that excuse when no reasonable person in the same situation would feel threatened.
 
Officer_Charon

Officer_Charon

Castle Laws are a good thing - they protect homeowners against frivolous lawsuits when burglars sue the homeowners for defending their home.

This guy is a douchebag who should swing for hunting down this kid without probable cause. Contemptible schmuck who thinks he's covered by the law.

The officer "correcting" the witness... I can see HOW that might happen, if the officer believed one thing, heard the witness stating the opposite, and wanted to ensure accuracy in reporting. I HOPE that's all that is.

We have several people like this living in one of our subdivisions, albeit without quite so much gunplay. But god forbid you're a black person walking through their neighborhood - you WILL get called about.

And, as with every time he says it, "Fuck you too," to Charlie. Call a hippie next time you need help.
 
fade

fade

Staff member
I am in no way defending Zimmerman--the guy should pay for his crime. However, they have to keep saying "may have said", and the Today show went so far as to say it's unclear what he said. The racial slur thing is starting to feel like an unnecessary stretch that may do more harm than good.
 
ElJuski

ElJuski

Staff member
Yeah, I think the biggest line I draw with Charlie is his stance against cops, particularly the cops that live in big or dangerous cities. I couldn't imagine what an overnight beat on the Southeast side would consist of. It's a stressful job, and unfortunately, one of those jobs where you're under constant scrutiny from a population that doesn't always necessarily see the good in what you're doing.

Just like teachers though, sometimes there truly are just shitty cops though. I've met a handful of bored big-fish-small-pond-assholes growing up in the suburbs.


BUT ANYWAY. Good thing this story is getting more detail in the news cycle. Justice needs to be served.
 
fade

fade

Staff member
I dislike stories like that one. What happened was terrible. Zimmerman and the police involved need to be punished. But this kind of story invites someone to create a separate story about why the police distrust young black males, with just as many anecdotes about innocent cops-to-be-married sprayed with 51 bullets from young black males. The problem's not going to be fixed with incensing, context-free anecdotes that get people in tit-for-tat arguments. Dale Carnegie knew this decades ago.
 
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