[Movies] Avengers

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I felt bad when I was talking to my cousin about which of the other Marvel movies he'd seen.

"I wanna see the Hawkeye movie."
"Well ... there isn't one."
":("
I thought he was getting one next year? That's what I heard, anyway...
*Edit: I guess it was just a wild, completely unsubstantiated rumour. BUT, Samuel L Jackson has said there was a S.H.I.E.L.D. movie coming up the pipeline. That's led some speculation to a film morece centred on Nick Fury/ Coulson/Hawkeye/ Black Widow.
 
I guess Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, Flash, Green Lantern and Aquaman?

I would not go with MM, he is not as well known as Aquaman.
As someone who has never read or watched any form of JLA, basically as a complete DC Comics outsider really, this is the lineup I'd expect to see. No idea who anyone else you guys are talking about is.
 
The problem with that? Didn't I just mention every problem with that? Superman acts and looks more like the evil Superman from Superman III than he should.
All his friends are dead, and the world is in ruins... i think he's allowed to be a bit pissed off...
 
S

Soliloquy

I'm just gonna post what Brian Clevinger had to say about that trailer:

The new DC Universe Online trailer looks pretty cool. But their Superman really bugs me.

It’s not that they went with Dickhead Superman from the third movie to show, I guess, how the rigors of endless conflict with Luthor has dragged him off his moral high ground. Okay, it’s not just that, but it’s a good place to start I guess.

Then there’s the implication that there’s all this war, all this senseless destruction and death, and Superman is just kinda chillin’ out in space? It’s clear that he’s not unaware of what’s going on down on Earth (and elsewhere, but we’ll get to that in a minute) because he can hear Wonder Woman scream. So, he’s probably heard the screams of everyone else who died while he was up there.

I mean, you can try to sneak in a line about “self-imposed exile” all you want, but that doesn’t make it internally consistent with the character. This is Superman we’re talking about. He doesn’t do self-imposed exile when the fighting gets rough. He’s too injured to go on? Good thing it’s Superman then, ’cause he fights harder. Even if he knows it’ll kill him. That’s what he does, that’s what makes him Superman.

What he does not do is brood out in space growing a grimdark five o’clock shadow while a global war kills billions of people due to his inaction. In fact, if dictionaries worked this way, that’d be the dictionary definition of what Superman does not do.

But it doesn’t stop there! Superman’s final breath is spent telling Luthor he’s already lost everything. And then it’s revealed: Brainiac’s been waiting all this time to invade Earth and lol @ Luthor for wiping out all the super heroes so he can sweep in and steal the planet out from under him.

Okay, so now Superman not only takes a beard break from the war, but he’s plainly been aware of Brainiac’s machinations for who-knows-how-long and never made the slightest effort to stop it? Superman just let the Earth fall? Twice? In one afternoon? C’mon.

I know all this sounds like a lot of fanboyish nerdrage. And, hell, maybe it is. But what galls me about all this is how easy it would’ve been to do right by Superman without changing the plot. Because, really, when they were plotting out this video they had to ask “Why doesn’t Superman just stop this from happening?” And their answer was “Self-imposed exile.” That’s a terrible and clunky answer. They could’ve had their cake an eaten it too. Here’s how:

Superman was already dead.

Have Luthor wearing Superman’s dirty and ripped up cape as his own cape or belt or flag. The implication is clear: Superman is dead and he has been for a long time. Though the kryptonite spear bit is pretty brutal, leaving it up to the viewer’s imagination is always going to be more brutal. The apocalyptic cityscape and subsequent invasion from Brainiac are no longer what Superman selfishly lets happen; they’re the tragic consequences of his death.

The horrible future is still Luthor’s fault, he’d still want to go back, and holy shit, Supes’ ruined cape would be a hell of a selling point to the Heroes of the Past.

The only thing you lose with this version is seeing Superman in action. And, granted, they had some fantastic minimalist realizations of Superman’s powers in that video. But c’mon.
You’re telling me they couldn’t have had Flash moving faster? Couldn’t have shown Black Adam being stronger?

I dunno. I’m just a big ol’ softie for Superman, and it’s always a disappointment when the focus is on how powerful he is as a plot device instead of how powerful he is as a character.
 
As someone who has never read or watched any form of JLA, basically as a complete DC Comics outsider really, this is the lineup I'd expect to see. No idea who anyone else you guys are talking about is.
They could do Captain Marvel. He was kind of a big deal for a very long time. It would definitely bring in a lot of the Pre-Boomer folks.
 
Regarding Aquaman, I'd like to point out that he was so popular on Smallville that they were planning a spin off series, so I don't think that his previous jokey image is as true anymore.

For those of us older folks who were used to the old cartoons, he was a joke, but for those who's first real exposure to the DC universe was Smallville, Arthur is a legitimate character.
 
Plus, back in the late 90's, Peter David wrote an amazing run of Aquaman. The image you saw of him from the Justice League cartoons (beard, lost hand replaced with a hook, basically an underwater Conan) all came from that.
 
I have, I actually read alot of the books you have recommended to others on a few occassions. The DC Universe trailer Superman was the first real time I was like "Wow... he's a badass". You have to understand though, his MO is just not my thing. I can see his appeal for you and others, just not for me.

I think what you read was "That's the first time Superman was ever interesting". When what I said was "First time I personally ever found Superman interesting."
 
I'd want Mera to replace her husband if there was a Justice League movie. She has cooler powers and it would give the movie a chance to pass the bechdel test.
 
I have, I actually read alot of the books you have recommended to others on a few occassions. The DC Universe trailer Superman was the first real time I was like "Wow... he's a badass". You have to understand though, his MO is just not my thing. I can see his appeal for you and others, just not for me.

I think what you read was "That's the first time Superman was ever interesting". When what I said was "First time I personally ever found Superman interesting."
No, I read it just fine. But Superman being capable of being a badass is only an incredibly small fraction of what makes him awesome.

Anyway, I'm backing away from this always-subjective argument before it inevitably gets out of hand. I'm going through some bad bouts of depression right now, I can't likely have a respectable discussion about it right now.
 
I'd want Mera to replace her husband if there was a Justice League movie. She has cooler powers and it would give the movie a chance to pass the bechdel test.
Loved her as a Red Lantern. Y'know, thinking about it, the utter slaughter of the entire Aquaman family is one of the few things I hated about Blackest Night.

Not that that matters anymore with the reboot.
 
No, I read it just fine. But Superman being capable of being a badass is only an incredibly small fraction of what makes him awesome.

Anyway, I'm backing away from this always-subjective argument before it inevitably gets out of hand. I'm going through some bad bouts of depression right now, I can't likely have a respectable discussion about it right now.
I completely see why Shego wouldn't find Superman very interesting. He's way to goody-two-shoes.
 
My favorite Superman stories have always been the one-shots. Red Son, All-Star, etc. The regular books just never held my attention.

Edit: Oh good, we've hit this point in the thread's life.
 
Even though I was trying not to get riled up in the first place because, I said, I'm not fucking thinking very clearly these days. Hell, I fucking said it. Here, let me spell it out loud and clear:

I'm going through some bad bouts of depression right now

And yet both Sheg and Bowie (to a lesser extent) had to goad it. You couldn't just fucking drop it, could you?
 
Even though I was trying not to get riled up in the first place because, I said, I'm not fucking thinking very clearly these days. Hell, I fucking said it. Here, let me spell it out loud and clear:

I'm going through some bad bouts of depression right now

And yet both Sheg and Bowie (to a lesser extent) had to goad it. You couldn't just fucking drop it, could you?
Dude, Nick. I sympathize, but don't get worked up like this. Not over a damn forum. Back off, ignore this thread, take a break for awhile.
 
It's just one more thing on top of everything else. I brought it on my goddamn self with that stupid fucking comment about Sheg not watching/reading enough Superman. Christ, what other possible direction could the conversation have gone? What other direction does that subjective piece of shit subject ever go!? Some people like this character, some people don't like this character. WHO FUCKING CARES?! I tried backing out of it, but no. NO. Of course not. We can't have that because someone's going through a bad patch in their life where they feel like a complete and pathetic loser with no control in their life whatsoever, right!? No, of course not. Let's goad them more! Poke them more and see what FUCKING HAPPENS!? Because that's always what fucking happens.

And because of this, I can't even fucking sleep now because it's just ONE MORE GODDAMN FUCKING PIECE OF SHIT THING THAT SET ME OFF ON TOP OF A LOT OF OTHER SHIT ALREADY TODAY.
 
I was already on that train after the amazing Iron Man flick, then the awesome Hulk movie then they just got better and better.

So yeah, 100% on the Marvel movie train. Which is unfortunate, because I'm a much bigger DC fan than Marvel but DC can't make a good Non-Batman movie to save it's life. With the exception of those fantastic Animated films.
 
A justice league movie seems all but impossible. The DC franchises are too spread out, and I really feel that they all work better as self-contained stories anyway. The only way I think they could pull off awesome would be if they did something like the Death of Superman, or some other big crossover event. But that would be too risky to do as a movie, since it would end on such a downer (the death of superman) and no one wants to do a reign of the supermen movie.
 
Avengers worked because of the huge build up over the years. They carefully crafted each film as a lead-up. It was genius and it paid off huge.

A Justice League movie? They'd have to be using this new Superman film as a "first film", then maybe Green Lantern 2 (Which I hope never happens) as a second, then a Wonder Woman movie that would tie in, then even another Batman reboot (as there's no way the current set-up would lead in). So yeah... think of how many years that'd be.
 
A justice league movie seems all but impossible. The DC franchises are too spread out, and I really feel that they all work better as self-contained stories anyway. The only way I think they could pull off awesome would be if they did something like the Death of Superman, or some other big crossover event. But that would be too risky to do as a movie, since it would end on such a downer (the death of superman) and no one wants to do a reign of the supermen movie.
I think it came up earlier in the thread but yeah, I think the major issue is not having the characters established outside the actual JL movie. The other thing is the JL staple characters are stupid powerful compared to those used in Avengers. Batman is the only non-powered, which means the baddie in a JL movie would have to be someone ridiculous or some kind of villain team.

Also if they did the Reign of the Supermen, Shaq could reprise his role as Steel.
 
Yeah we already clarified it in PM. All's done and done.

DC has some amazing villains as well, imo also better than Marvel (with the exception of the Mighty Thanos of course).
 
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