[NCAAF] Goodbye Joe Pa

[Silent Bob]

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/colu...nn-state-shut-down-football/56166544/1?csp=ip

Christine Brennan is a Northwestern Alum, and hiding behind the atrocities that happened at Penn State to bash the university itself. What a hack. This isn't about journalism of abused children. It's clearly a bitter hatred towards a football rival.

 

[Charlie Don't Surf]

Nah, she's right

 

[Silent Bob]

Nah, she's right

No she's disgusting. She's using abused children to go after a university because of being brainwashed by football rivalry. Have you noticed that most of the vocal people against PSU - throwing out the harshest punishments possible - have been football rival alum? It's really pathetic. PSU broke no NCAA rules. The staff is completely wiped clean with new people, and the young men playing now where in 5th grade when all this occurred. Shutting down PSU football is not an answer, not to mention how many hundreds of people depend on that university and community for their livelihood. It's the proposal of someone with hatred towards the university itself using rape victims as a prop to voice their idiocy.

 

[Dave]

I see what you are saying about not closing down the football program now based on the actions of those who were there before, but the NCAA has rules about conduct by schools and this certainly fits the definition of a culture of misconduct. And since they can't levy any punishments against the actual perpetrators, the kids there now get the shaft. Same with all NCAA sanctions against all schools. Running Backs in the NFL breaking rules in college frequently cost the college millions AFTER they leave. Is it fair? Nope. But if it didn't happen schools would be free of consequences. At the least Penn State should lose eligibility for a time and scholarships.

As to Joe Pa himself, yes he did some good things. But running a good football program is in no way comparable to allowing the rape and active molestation of kids by a predatory pedophile. Joe Pa and the others there let this happen. It is as much their fault as Sandusky's. Had they acted with even a modicum of humanity instead of wanting to hush it up so that the program wasn't damaged, a great number of these kids would have been fine. They allowed lives to be ruined all for the sake of money.

So while I understand his son speaking up for him, I can't fathom why anyone else would.

 

[Silent Bob]

I see what you are saying about not closing down the football program now based on the actions of those who were there before, but the NCAA has rules about conduct by schools and this certainly fits the definition of a culture of misconduct. And since they can't levy any punishments against the actual perpetrators, the kids there now get the shaft. Same with all NCAA sanctions against all schools. Running Backs in the NFL breaking rules in college frequently cost the college millions AFTER they leave. Is it fair? Nope. But if it didn't happen schools would be free of consequences. At the least Penn State should lose eligibility for a time and scholarships.

As to Joe Pa himself, yes he did some good things. But running a good football program is in no way comparable to allowing the rape and active molestation of kids by a predatory pedophile. Joe Pa and the others there let this happen. It is as much their fault as Sandusky's. Had they acted with even a modicum of humanity instead of wanting to hush it up so that the program wasn't damaged, a great number of these kids would have been fine. They allowed lives to be ruined all for the sake of money.

So while I understand his son speaking up for him, I can't fathom why anyone else would.

Oh yeah, please, I wasn't defending Paterno. I just think that as his son, Jay, has every right to defend his dad despite knowing he was in the wrong. I would do the same for my dad.

 

[blotsfan]

the NCAA has rules about conduct by schools and this certainly fits the definition of a culture of misconduct.

Actually it doesn't. Look at the rules about "institutional control."
https://docs.google.com/a/buffalo.edu/viewer?a=v&q=cache:3MeWDSl4-NgJ:compliance.pac-12.org/thetools/instctl.pdf &hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESia-dUJQf7v9A7SOCtsXNfioarLsgw15Zq5mO970h41R9whByadtkszjisKhhB2mCmIYqeGu9acFRPaRXVRnVhWULq04jt1eU5tz6CXDVcZGn_YzeMQgUyxHDGCWwm8Xt3qE6Hs&sig=AHIEtbTuIbykaZD8ZorC1V2iCzHbQrT7IA&pli=1

In determining whether there has been a lack of institutional control when a violation of NCAA rules has been found it is necessary to ascertain what formal institutional policies and procedures were in place at the time the violation of NCAA rules occurred and whether those policies and procedures, if adequate, were being monitored and enforced.

Neither molesting children nor covering it up are violations of NCAA rules.

 

[Silent Bob]

Actually it doesn't. Look at the rules about "institutional control."



http://www.thegridironpalace.com/forums/index.php?/topic/60187-tgp-user-awards-2012/

Neither molesting children nor covering it up are violations of NCAA rules.

I mean, I don't see why they would be. They don't pertain to any jurisdiction the NCAA has over the game of football. I'd argue that such matters are turned over to Federal and State authorities and thus in their jurisdiction. So yeah, you could argue about the Ohio State tattoo scandal vs. Penn State, but in the end the Penn State one was a Federal crime, whereas the Ohio scandal was within NCAA jurisdiction.

Either way, I don't feel an entire community (happy valley) should be punished for crimes they never committed. And what will shutting down PSU football do for the victims exactly? I'd argue that the outpouring of support from the PSU community and donations towards the victims funds and charities is what should be focused on. Proposing a death penitently on PSU football is really malicious and viable to those who just want to see the whole program go up in flames due to rivalry issues, not because of what happened.

Penn States been pretty squeaky clean up until this point. Some people, I've noticed, are simply reveling in light of this scandal.

 

[drifter]

Any punishment levied against a large institution is going to have collateral damage. Does it suck that people have nothing to do with the controversy will get fucked if the football program gets the death penalty? Yeah, but if you don't punish PSU because of the unintended consequences, you can't punish anybody ever. Also, if you let them off the hook, you're basically letting every single institution know that if they find themselves in a similar ethical quandary, all they need to do is make sure they have a scapegoat.

Also, I think you're being overly dramatic. The entire community would not be punished, unless you think being deprived of rooting for a college team is some monstrous hardship. And relating it in regards to the victims is a red herring; Penn State would be punished for doing wrong, not to ameliorate the feelings of the victims.

Also, I can't believe you really think people want the death penalty only because of college rivalries. Really? A child abuse coverup spanning a decade, purely due to the power of college football, and you think it's about rivalries?

 

[Covar]

Penn States been pretty squeaky clean up until this point.

Except for '98 and 2001. Sure, I suppose not getting caught and having it covered up is squeaky clean.

 

[Silent Bob]

Any punishment levied against a large institution is going to have collateral damage. Does it suck that people have nothing to do with the controversy will get fucked if the football program gets the death penalty? Yeah, but if you don't punish PSU because of the unintended consequences, you can't punish anybody ever. Also, if you let them off the hook, you're basically letting every single institution know that if they find themselves in a similar ethical quandary, all they need to do is make sure they have a scapegoat.

Also, I think you're being overly dramatic. The entire community would not be punished, unless you think being deprived of rooting for a college team is some monstrous hardship. And relating it in regards to the victims is a red herring; Penn State would be punished for doing wrong, not to ameliorate the feelings of the victims.

Also, I can't believe you really think people want the death penalty only because of college rivalries. Really? A child abuse coverup spanning a decade, purely due to the power of college football, and you think it's about rivalries?

Google how many people are employed by the athletic department at Penn State for the football program. Next look up where the funding is allocated. Do you think funding for all the other sports just magically appears from tuition revenue? Shutting down football at PSU would shut down more than just football. Have you been to Penn State? If you have, you'd know exactly what I'm talking about. It would be akin to shutting down a factory in a factory town.

And, yes, look at that article I posted. Read the Facebook comments. Almost every single crazy vocal poster for the death penalty is an alum from a rival school. It's pathetic, I know, but I saw the same thing happen with Miami. I can almost reiterate what Paterno said. This isn't a football scandal. The program's reputation may have influence what those men did to cover up, but the scandal itself is about Jerry Sandusky molesting children using his own program as a means.

 

[Dave]

This isn't a football scandal. The program's reputation may have influence what those men did to cover up, but the scandal itself is about Jerry Sandusky molesting children using his own program as a means.

Unless you take into account the fact that these men covered it up so as not to damage the institution or revenue-generating from the football program. So while the attacks themselves weren't necessarily a football scandal, the ensuing cover-up and allowing of Sandusky to continue his assaults is a football scandal.

 

[jwhouk]

Penalizing PSU football for all this is pretty much a moot point. The program will take forever and a year to recover. There are a lot of people who will refuse to let their sons play for ANYONE who coaches football at Penn State, and/or sons and daughters play ANY sport at Penn State.

ESPN's been quibbling over whether or not PSU should take down the Paterno statue. I would have to say, if they do, they might want to keep the cranes around, because they might need to start dismantling parts of the stadium shortly thereafter.

No, I'm not saying the NCAA will impose the death penalty on PSU. I think the PSU football program may end up dying of a terminal case of lack of interest, exacerbated by a lack of trust and a whole boatload of shame.

 

[Tress]

In my opinion, they should leave the statue up, but include a plaque that summarizes the entirety of his career (including the Sandusky scandal). Let the man's career be celebrated for what he did on the field, and serve as a cautionary tale for everything that happened off the field.

 

[drifter]

Google how many people are employed by the athletic department at Penn State for the football program. Next look up where the funding is allocated. Do you think funding for all the other sports just magically appears from tuition revenue? Shutting down football at PSU would shut down more than just football. Have you been to Penn State? If you have, you'd know exactly what I'm talking about. It would be akin to shutting down a factory in a factory town.

I'm not saying people wouldn't gonna get hurt. Local businesses that cater to the football/alum crowd would seriously feel the pinch, assuming they don't go under entirely. Concession workers would be fucked. But Penn State's athletic budget is something around $116 mil. Penn State's total budget is over $4 billion. Now, football brings in mad scrilla, and is estimated to bring in a surplus of around $15 mil. That's a good bit of scratch, and as you say, the money they bring in is needed (hence the whole "let's cover for this pedophile cuz monies"), but even if you completely excised the entire athletic department, I think the rest of Penn State would find a way to get along with the rest of their $3.9 billion.

And, yes, look at that article I posted. Read the Facebook comments. Almost every single crazy vocal poster for the death penalty is an alum from a rival school. It's pathetic, I know, but I saw the same thing happen with Miami. I can almost reiterate what Paterno said. This isn't a football scandal. The program's reputation may have influence what those men did to cover up, but the scandal itself is about Jerry Sandusky molesting children using his own program as a means.

Ew, the mouthbreathers who reply to internet articles are not people, and I'm surprised you even bothered to read them. This especially applies to sports articles. But out of curiosity, I actually looked. I went through somewhat less than half the comments (let's say about 100), and found 2 people from rival schools in support of the death penalty (one who might be deemed crazy, and one who was kind of whatever), and two rival alums who actually supported keeping the football program. The rest were from outside the Big Ten or didn't list their affiliations. While I'm sure if you went on a Big Ten message board you'd get a bunch of crazy talk *shudder*, saying the people voicing support for the death penalty are doing so only because they hate PSU is employing a biiit of hyperbole.

 

[Charlie Don't Surf]

I saw a really funny tweet from someone (Michael Ian Black I think) saying "This is the first time that someone dying of cancer was described as getting the easy way out"

 

[Bowielee]

I'm firmly of the mind that the evil that men do should not negate the good that they did. It takes anything positive that could come from a tragedy and turns it into a negative.

 

[jwhouk]

Then all mankind is evil, for the difference is that some are better at hiding it than others.

 

[Dubyamn]

I'm firmly of the mind that the evil that men do should not negate the good that they did. It takes anything positive that could come from a tragedy and turns it into a negative.

The only positive that will ever come out of this tragedy is if every person in power remembers the life of Joe Pa. A man who was respected, beloved and adored by even his rivals who spent decades building up a program and turning into one of the greatest in sports. Then with a single decision he lit a fire that destroyed everything he built and when he died it was as a complete pariah with everybody who once kneeled to kiss his ring spitting on his name.

The only thing about Joe Pa that is worth remembering is his fall.

 

[Charlie Don't Surf]

The Grand Experiment utterly failed.

 

[jwhouk]

The talk now is about Penn State self-imposing the "death penalty". I doubt that severely, since they're gonna have to figure out some way to pay all their legal bills over the next decade or so.

Wonder what odds Vegas would give you that PSU would not have a football program by 2020?

 

[DarkAudit]

First shoe... the statue has been taken down and put in storage.

Second... "unprecedented" sanctions to be announced by the NCAA tomorrow.

 

[Charlie Don't Surf]

Awesome.

 

[blotsfan]

My guess is gonna be restrictions on revenue, like what nick saban suggested, the death penalty wouldn't be "unprecedented" And normal NCAA sanctions would be insulting considering the crimes.

If I'm right I think that would be a fair punishment. The coaches and players can still play, the fans can watch the games, but penn state is punished and the punishment does good (saban's suggestion was that their revenues go to child welfare
Charities).

 

[Piotyr]

The Big Ten was looking into the possibility of removing Penn State from the conference. That'd be kind of a big deal if it happened.

 

[DarkAudit]

According to a "source" talking to ESPN, Penn State won't be getting the "death penalty", but it is likely the penalties will be so harsh, the death penalty would have been preferable.

 

[Bowielee]

I still don't see the point of punishing people who weren't even involved... Shouldn't this be purely a legal matter?

 

[DarkAudit]

The institution, Penn State University, covered up child rape to protect the reputation of the football program. They covered up child rape in order to entice more young men to choose Penn State over other schools to play football. Fans, alumni, and students are still taking the side of people who helped cover up child rape.

Crimes were committed, aided, and abetted in the name of football.

 

[Bowielee]

The institution, Penn State University, covered up child rape to protect the reputation of the football program. They covered up child rape in order to entice more young men to choose Penn State over other schools to play football. Fans, alumni, and students are still taking the side of people who helped cover up child rape.

Crimes were committed, aided, and abetted in the name of football.

Yes, because every single person in Penn State knew what was going on.

The institution is an institution (an inatimate object). What matters is going after the PEOPLE who did this. Not punshing those who didn't.

What I'm seeing right now is mob mentality at its finest.

 

[sixpackshaker]

But you have to think about to children.

 

[blotsfan]

I saw this picture online. It obviously involves the death penalty so I can not verify its accuracy. If this is true however, Penn State football is done forever. I do agree though that the program shouldn't be punished.

 

[DarkAudit]

Yes, because every single person in Penn State knew what was going on.

The institution is an institution (an inatimate object). What matters is going after the PEOPLE who did this. Not punshing those who didn't.

What I'm seeing right now is mob mentality at its finest.

I see your and raise you another . It was the culture at Penn State that allowed this to happen, allowed it to be covered up, and allowed it to continue. You didn't have to drop your pants or know that pants were being dropped to be part of the problem. In that sense, yes, it was the fans, alumni, and students that did this, because they fed the monster, and continue to feed it even to this day.

The school has to pay, and so does the culture. The players aren't being punished, because if the leaks are true, they can leave with no penalty.

 

[Bowielee]

What culture are you referring to? The competetive culture of college sports? EVERY college has that culture. Unless your saying there's a culture at Penn State that advocates child molestation (a few higher ups covering up something =! the entire culture).

 

[DarkAudit]

That is nearly right. In order to protect football, they did nothing, and the abuse continued. Paterno was bigger than the university, college sports, and damn near close to God to many. Why do you think the mural gave Joe a halo? (it's since been removed)

The abuse was allowd to continue in the name of football. In the name of football, those responsible must pay. That includes the university, the fans, and the students. If they are going to continue to grovel at the feet of the men who allowed this to happen, why should they be spared?

 

[Bowielee]

That is nearly right. In order to protect football, they did nothing, and the abuse continued. Paterno was bigger than the university, college sports, and damn near close to God to many. Why do you think the mural gave Joe a halo? (it's since been removed)

The abuse was allowd to continue in the name of football. In the name of football, those responsible must pay. That includes the university, the fans, and the students. If they are going to continue to grovel at the feet of the men who allowed this to happen, why should they be spared?

Who's this nebulus "they" you keep referring to?

Quite frankly, your assertion that the whole school should suffer because 4 men did something horrible is assinine.

That's vengence, not justice.

 

[DarkAudit]

"They" are Paterno, Curley, et. al. What they did, what they allowed to happen, was all in the name of Penn State Football. They facilitated the rape of multiple victims to protect the name of Penn State Football. Victims that Sandusky would never have been within miles of if any of those men had acted appropriately when the had the initial chance. But no. Those men thought the proper course of action was to think about Penn State Football instead of those boys.

That points to an institutional problem. One that had never been seen before in the history of college athletics. At least not publicly.

Those men acted in the university's name, and so it is right that the university now pay the price.