All your guns are belong in this thread.

figmentPez

figmentPez

Staff member
Virginia Declares State of Emergency After Armed Militias Threaten to Storm the Capitol

"In response to what he described as 'credible intelligence' of threats of violence at an upcoming gun rights rally in Richmond, Virginia Gov. Ralph Northam has declared a state of emergency and will temporarily ban individuals from carrying firearms on Capitol grounds.

"The governor said at a press conference Wednesday that authorities believe 'armed militia groups plan to storm the Capitol' during the January 20 rally.
...
"What’s more, armed militia groups are also planning to attend, and some have even described the event as a 'boogaloo' — a term that the far right uses to describe a second civil war."


In other words, terrorists have threatened to take control of the government of the state of Virginia, and we're not calling it terrorism, or a coup, because they're white.
 
GasBandit

GasBandit

Staff member
Well, to be fair... this possibility is exactly the intent of the 2nd amendment. The reason it's a crime and not a revolution is merely because it doesn't have enough actual popular support.
 
figmentPez

figmentPez

Staff member
GasBandit said:
Well, to be fair... this possibility is exactly the intent of the 2nd amendment. The reason it's a crime and not a revolution is merely because it doesn't have enough actual popular support.
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If I thought their motives were based around the good of the nation, and not the cause of racism, I might agree with you, but no. The 2nd Amendment was not put in place to allow a political minority with a morally abhorrent goal to take over the government. Make no mistake, if this group takes over the government in Virginia, they're not doing it in order to keep their guns. They're doing it to promote a white supremacist government.
 
PatrThom

PatrThom

GasBandit said:
Well, to be fair... this possibility is exactly the intent of the 2nd amendment. The reason it's a crime and not a revolution is merely because it doesn't have enough actual popular support.
Click to expand...
figmentPez said:
The 2nd Amendment was not put in place to allow a political minority with a morally abhorrent goal to take over the government. Make no mistake, if this group takes over the government in Virginia, they're not doing it in order to keep their guns. They're doing it to promote a white supremacist government.
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This would not be the first time this group has used the letter of a law to subvert the spirit of a(mother) law.

—Patrick
 
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GasBandit

GasBandit

Staff member
figmentPez said:
If I thought their motives were based around the good of the nation, and not the cause of racism, I might agree with you, but no. The 2nd Amendment was not put in place to allow a political minority with a morally abhorrent goal to take over the government. Make no mistake, if this group takes over the government in Virginia, they're not doing it in order to keep their guns. They're doing it to promote a white supremacist government.
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@Li3n said:
I don't think the "security of the free state" was ever meant to mean using guns to overthrow a duly elected governing body.
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The motives are not specified, only the methodry.
 
@Li3n

@Li3n

GasBandit said:
The motives are not specified, only the methodry.
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Hint: it's not a "free state" if you're military coup-ing elected officials.

Then again, a lack of understanding obvious nuance is why the FF didn't want to give the masses the right to vote, innit.
 
GasBandit

GasBandit

Staff member
@Li3n said:
Hint: it's not a "free state" if you're military coup-ing elected officials.

Then again, a lack of understanding obvious nuance is why the FF didn't want to give the masses the right to vote, innit.
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Hint: It very much can be.

IE, Trump was elected. But if a thousand armed rabble stormed the white house... might could be said to be in the interests of a free state, yes?

I don't need to remind you what other monsters of history were "elected."
 
figmentPez

figmentPez

Staff member
GasBandit said:
The motives are not specified, only the methodry.
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Bullshit they aren't. "We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

That's the fucking motivation right there, and white supremacy shits on all of that.
 
@Li3n

@Li3n

GasBandit said:
IE, Trump was elected. But if a thousand armed rabble stormed the white house... might could be said to be in the interests of a free state, yes?
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No, it wouldn't.

There's already a system in place for that, and it failing to do it's job isn't because Trump got elected, it's because they've been shitting on it for decades.

If he actually refuses to abide by the rules and leaves when he's supposed to, then you can storm his ass, but otherwise that's a really bad idea for a democracy, even if he's being a terrible leader. While ousting him by force and leaving the people who shielded him from the legal consequences is just pointless.

GasBandit said:
I don't need to remind you what other monsters of history were "elected."
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Heh, even you know to put it in quotes when it pretty much ruins your argument...

I did miss to repeat "duly" in the 2nd post, but it was supposed to be implied.
 
GasBandit

GasBandit

Staff member
figmentPez said:
Bullshit they aren't. "We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

That's the fucking motivation right there, and white supremacy shits on all of that.
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You're overemotional, as you do tend to get in this sort of discussion.

The second amendment is there to keep the government afraid of the people. Be those people virtuous, or shitty. The ultimate effect of representative democracy is we end up with the government we deserve... and that goes for the results of putting amendments into practice as well.

@Li3n said:
No, it wouldn't.

There's already a system in place for that, and it failing to do it's job isn't because Trump got elected, it's because they've been shitting on it for decades.
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So if you'd stop splitting hairs for a moment, you'd see you just admitted that when the system fails, the 2nd amendment is there to hit the reset button.

As I said, the reason it's a crime this time and not a revolution is merely a matter of numbers. Or to put it less cynically, because the white supremacists are still outnumbered by good people by a lot.
 
figmentPez

figmentPez

Staff member
GasBandit said:
You're overemotional, as you do tend to get in this sort of discussion.

The second amendment is there to keep the government afraid of the people. Be those people virtuous, or shitty. The ultimate effect of representative democracy is we end up with the government we deserve... and that goes for the results of putting amendments into practice as well.
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But the second amendment is NOT there for terrorist groups to take over the government and institute a rule that is counter to the goals of the constitution. The constiution is not designed to allow fascist groups to take over. The second amendment very much cares if the people are virtuous or shitty. That's why you're allowed to ban felons from owning weapons. That's why you're allowed to arrest people for planning terrorist acts. That's why laws against treason exist. No matter how right you are that the government is supposed to be afraid of the people, the constitution also exists to keep people safe. "To promote domestic tranquilty." Vesting power in known bad actors is not domestic tranquility, and promoting the idea that a terrorist coup is "exactly the intent of the 2nd amendment" is not domestic tranquility. The purpose of the second amendment is not to allow petty thugs to take over and plot genocide against anyone with different colored skin.
 
Bubble181

Bubble181

figmentPez said:
But the second amendment is NOT there for terrorist groups to take over the government and institute a rule that is counter to the goals of the constitution. The constiution is not designed to allow fascist groups to take over. The second amendment very much cares if the people are virtuous or shitty. That's why you're allowed to ban felons from owning weapons. That's why you're allowed to arrest people for planning terrorist acts. That's why laws against treason exist. No matter how right you are that the government is supposed to be afraid of the people, the constitution also exists to keep people safe. "To promote domestic tranquilty." Vesting power in known bad actors is not domestic tranquility, and promoting the idea that a terrorist coup is "exactly the intent of the 2nd amendment" is not domestic tranquility. The purpose of the second amendment is not to allow petty thugs to take over and plot genocide against anyone with different colored skin.
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If they were brown and shouting "Allahu Akbar" while storming the capitol, they'd be mowed down in seconds. If they're white and doing it For the Good of the People, it's "the intent of the constitution, only considered a crime because they don't have enough support".

Yes, if Trump tries to stop the elections or refuses to acknowledge a defeat, that'll be the moment to claim the 2nd Amendment. If it's against elected officials, it's not the intent and trying to interpret it that way just because it messes with the poor libtard snowflakes is being disingenious.
 
blotsfan

blotsfan

Gas when the idea of shooting down right wingers is brought up.
GasBandit said:
The second amendment isn't something to be used just when you don't like a president's policies - policies that are discarded simply when someone else gets elected.
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Gas when the idea of shooting left wingers is brought up.
GasBandit said:
Well, to be fair... this possibility is exactly the intent of the 2nd amendment. The reason it's a crime and not a revolution is merely because it doesn't have enough actual popular support.
Click to expand...
 
PatrThom

PatrThom

To me, the second does not sound like an endorsement, it just sounds like a rephrasing of “History is written by the victors.” That is, if the white supremacists were to take over, the history books would praise it as “The day we took back what was rightfully ours” as opposed to calling it “The crime that put us back in charge again.”

—Patrick
 
blotsfan

blotsfan

Yeah and killing every republican can be the day democracy was saved in America. But he didn't seem to want to think of it as that.
 
GasBandit

GasBandit

Staff member
blotsfan said:
Just pointing out that in one case he thinks the motivations are bad and in the other they aren't.
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I didn't say the motivations weren't bad. In fact I specifically said the motivations WERE bad.

But never you mind, I'll let you guys get back to your "GUNS ARE BAAAAAAD" circlejerk.
 
@Li3n

@Li3n

GasBandit said:
So if you'd stop splitting hairs for a moment, you'd see you just admitted that when the system fails, the 2nd amendment is there to hit the reset button.
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Nah, it's totally there for hunting, self defence and shooting them in the air for fun.

As per that quote @blotsfan quoted, you do clearly understand, when it suits you, that disagreeing with the policies of a duly elected government isn't the type of "failure" we're talking about.

GasBandit said:
As I said, the reason it's a crime this time and not a revolution is merely a matter of numbers. Or to put it less cynically, because the white supremacists are still outnumbered by good people by a lot.
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Yeah dude, but that's true of everything.

Violently sodomizing people against their will is only a crime because the rapists are "outnumbered by good people by a lot".

We where talking about the situation as it relates to the 2nd amendment, and i'm pretty sure the FF did not intend it to be used to, lets say, bring back monarchy and taxation without representation. Which should be obvious.
 
blotsfan

blotsfan

As much as the NRA sucks, if they're getting their 180 days regardless, does it really matter if they get 3 extra days off for deer season?
 
DarkAudit

DarkAudit

Quick reminder that the creature who killed the Constitution is the POTUS who actually *said* he'd take your guns. Say goodbye to your precious 2nd amendment. It's as irrelevant as the rest of it now.
 
@Li3n

@Li3n

To be fair, unless there where pregnant women in the building, your guns could only kill already born people, and they're clearly not as important as a fetus?
 
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