Atheists the scum-dogs of the universe...apparently
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Green_Lantern
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What? You mean how I make multiple quotations? Well, sorry, I like to answer that way.
I am just doing this to keep the debate going.
But if the State goes to the extreme of not acknowledging a god, then you are being discourteous to those that do.[/QUOTE]
Can you seriously not distinguish between not acknowledging god and acknowledging there is no god?[/QUOTE]
Nice
And for the things that Non-Atheists push for, only a group of religious views will be referenced, as if god does exist (I am oppressing you for saying the opposite of your views?)
How would you feel like if it was a "Gods" or "Goddess"? And how can something be "just God"? Each of your examples would implie a load of different things, if the state is going to say that "God in a general term" it is essencially creating definition of its own and making it official, that would oppose the views of Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, etc.
Why is so integral that the swearing part to put a hand in a copy of a religious text??? How about if someone's religion be a matter that can be kept private unless is relevant to the case?
You might argue that "they always can deny use anything", that is just as good as the don't ask and don't tell policy, because if you deny or request the use of another religious text it will be a recorded religious related action that you will be forced to make in public.
I confess, that is a part that I am myself unsure how to proceed.
First, I don't consider "not give tax money" as oppression, and if you really want a St Patrick Parade, why not make a private funded event with the permission to use the streets for that day?
Second (once that I said the First and I believe that I made myself clear enoug), I honestly don't see much of a problem with governement to give fund to help cultural/artistic events including religion-specific holidays, as long it is not used as a form to promote a political agenda for that religion. Still, Is a case that I am not 100% sure about.
You'll have to find someone else this time, I like being First Lady Puffinstuff.
Like I mentioned earlier in the thread, the use of a religious text is to impress upon the witness the moral responsibility to tell the truth that they are publicly assuming. As a result, many, many jurisdictions in the US allow for the substitution of other religious texts as the witness would prefer, and every single one of them, by law, accepts non-denominational or non-religious affidavits, so if you don't want to swear on some version of the Bible, you don't have to.
Brother Jed - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
This was the religious blowhard that always showed up at my campus back in the day. One of the old-school fire and brimstone ministers who believed we were all going to hell for the most ridiculous of reasons. I used to get some great promos from this guy for my College Radio Heavy Metal show...I wonder how he would have felt about me using him to bump Slayer?
Edited for a horrific mistake my old Journalism prof would have crucified me for...
This was the religious blowhard that always showed up at my campus back in the day. One of the old-school fire and brimstone ministers who believed we were all going to hell for the most ridiculous of reasons. I used to get some great promos from this guy for my College Radio Heavy Metal show...I wonder how he would have felt about me using him to bump Slayer?
Edited for a horrific mistake my old Journalism prof would have crucified me for...
Green_Lantern
Staff member
Like I mentioned earlier in the thread, the use of a religious text is to impress upon the witness the moral responsibility to tell the truth that they are publicly assuming. As a result, many, many jurisdictions in the US allow for the substitution of other religious texts as the witness would prefer, and every single one of them, by law, accepts non-denominational or non-religious affidavits, so if you don't want to swear on some version of the Bible, you don't have to.[/QUOTE]
"the use of a religious text is to impress upon the witness "
So essencially, it is the state using they religion agaisnt them, how nice that freedom of religion includes "have the legal system manipulate me using my faith".
Also, I said before that this kind of thing forces the person to take a public stance about religion. It doesn't matter if the person has the choice to "not swear over anything", even not doing it is something that is a public manifestation, and I still want to know why does the witness needs to be forced to so and how it isn't a violation of her rights as human being of having its own opinions, and most importantly the right to keep it to herself.
Or, just affirm that you will tell the truth. That is all that is asked of you.
Or, just affirm that you will tell the truth. That is all that is asked of you.[/QUOTE]
Exactly.
That and backing up sworn statements with public testimony usually helps convince juries, but I imagine it's also a historical remnant of our predominantly Christian population at the time of our founding (plus the influence of the English legal system, whose ultimate authority was originally the crown, with all the religious implications therein). If the stability/strength of the government is in question, the threat of legal action for perjury may not be particularly strong.
Yes, it is. If they allow them to, at least. I think it would be much more problematic if we didn't allow people to make a different choice of affirmation.
It can be, certainly. I suspect these days that lawyers on both sides advise their witnesses to do one or the other based on how they think the jury will react.
Historical remnant. It is pretty ridiculous that the default position today isn't with the religious part removed. Eventually, I'm guessing that the "so help me God" portion of the oath will be done away with just so courts don't have to keep a ready supply of various religious texts in their closets.
That, or they'll switch to ereaders. Which would be kind of awesome. Until the religious texts are replaced with Court EULAs.
Okay, you lost me on this one. How is having the choice to include or not include that statement preventing anyone from having their own opinion? And if you want to exercise your right to keep your opinions to yourself, you might want to avoid testifying in court, period.
All of the court sessions I've attended don't even have the references anymore.
Witness goes to stand
Bailiff says, "Please raise your right hand. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?"
Witness answers "Yes" (if they say anything other than yes such as "uh-huh" or "ok" the judge says, "Just say yes, please")
Bailiff says, "You may be seated."
Then the examination begins.
I'm sure many courts follow different procedures, but I suspect that most are moving towards a simple non-religious method to avoid delays, confrontation, and such.
At any rate, you are generally allowed to view court proceedings if you like, go check out your local district court, see what's on the docket, and see what they do in your town.
Alternately, wait until you are called as a juror. It's interesting, though generally boring and tedious. But you'll certainly see a few people go up and be sworn in as witnesses.
Witness goes to stand
Bailiff says, "Please raise your right hand. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?"
Witness answers "Yes" (if they say anything other than yes such as "uh-huh" or "ok" the judge says, "Just say yes, please")
Bailiff says, "You may be seated."
Then the examination begins.
I'm sure many courts follow different procedures, but I suspect that most are moving towards a simple non-religious method to avoid delays, confrontation, and such.
At any rate, you are generally allowed to view court proceedings if you like, go check out your local district court, see what's on the docket, and see what they do in your town.
Alternately, wait until you are called as a juror. It's interesting, though generally boring and tedious. But you'll certainly see a few people go up and be sworn in as witnesses.
Down here, they still use "So help you God," which makes things a bit awkward. They've dispensed with the Bible, tho.
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