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I watched Cameron's interview on Charlie Rose. He was so full of himself, but that's no surprise. Like Lucas, he claimed he had vietnam, not iraq in mind when he wrote this. I'm starting to think that's the go-to excuse when the heat comes on. All in all, I got little out of the interview other than Cameron himself saying that for the second time he accidentally made a chick flick. That, and he seemed to be really concerned with making an established universe a la Tolkein and Lucas.

I have to admit, the first time I saw a trailer, I could've sworn I'd seen this movie before. The plot just seemed same-old, same-old, been there done that. In fact, it reminded me strongly of like 85% of all saturday morning cartoons. Even the ships and such felt rehashed and generic. The Na'vi are generic and alien in the loosest sense. I mean they're essentially blue humans. We're always up against earth-mother worshipping stoics. So tired of it. And then there's the physical disadvantage of humans. Once again, we suck physically. I mean, are there any aliens that are physically "inferior" to us out there?

 

[Charlie Don't Surf]

yo thanks for the spoilers and shitty fan fiction

 

[Denbrought]

And then there's the physical disadvantage of humans. Once again, we suck physically. I mean, are there any aliens that are physically "inferior" to us out there?

Humans as they are, or as I see them, are intertwined with their technological level on a very deep sense. I can't see a 21st century american and an 18th century one the same way, even if physically they are, one is superior to the other. Our sheer racial knowledge and power, the technological pool of our community, is what would make us superior to all these 'superhuman' aliens. Just because it isn't carried in our DNA it doesn't mean it's part of us ~_~

Also, it's part of the balancing theme of fiction. Physically inferior aliens (E.T. like things, there's plenty of them in Parallel Universes and assorted fiction) are normally technologically superior (flying saucers and whatnot). The converse is also true. That's because in order for humanity to conflict with them, there need to be strengths and weaknesses on both sides.

However, when we encounter aliens that are both physically superior *and* technologically superior, it's normally one of those fictions that feel overtly false, because Mary Sue. That is also why no race that physically superior to us (or any race, really) should get knowledge from us. Teaching them English and giving them medicines... What were they thinking?

In conclusion: they're using bows, we have gunpowder and extra-planetary travel. I don't care if they win at basketball.


... Man I would have loved hanging out in the public plaza back during the various imperialist eras.

 

[ElJuski]

Also, it's part of the balancing theme of fiction. Physically inferior aliens (E.T. like things, there's plenty of them in Parallel Universes and assorted fiction) are normally technologically superior (flying saucers and whatnot). The converse is also true. That's because in order for humanity to conflict with them, there need to be strengths and weaknesses on both sides.

However, when we encounter aliens that are both physically superior *and* technologically superior, it's normally one of those fictions that feel overtly false, because Mary Sue.

There are tons of movies, books, etc where what you said is SO not true.

 

[KCWM]

yeah, not impressed with the "bit of 'fic". Way to spoiler a movie that hasn't even been out for 48 hours, asshole. I'm normally all for spoilers if a reasonable amount of time has passed, but this isn't reasonable. You're an ass for posting it and whoever wrote it needs to get another fucking hobby, because even as a recap, that sucks the biggest balls. I've read better Twilight "fic" than that.

 

[Denbrought]

Also, it's part of the balancing theme of fiction. Physically inferior aliens (E.T. like things, there's plenty of them in Parallel Universes and assorted fiction) are normally technologically superior (flying saucers and whatnot). The converse is also true. That's because in order for humanity to conflict with them, there need to be strengths and weaknesses on both sides.

However, when we encounter aliens that are both physically superior *and* technologically superior, it's normally one of those fictions that feel overtly false, because Mary Sue.

There are tons of movies, books, etc where what you said is SO not true.[/QUOTE]

Idk, it's the impression I've gotten from all I've read. I'm trying to think of examples to the contrary but... :<

Ah shit, it just occured to me. Ewoks. But then again SW universe is humorous, where stormtroopers can't kill a bunch of furry abortions.

Regardless: we are humans and they're not. What else?

---------- Post added at 11:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:04 PM ----------

yeah, not impressed with the "bit of 'fic". Way to spoiler a movie that hasn't even been out for 48 hours, asshole. I'm normally all for spoilers if a reasonable amount of time has passed, but this isn't reasonable. You're an ass for posting it and whoever wrote it needs to get another fucking hobby, because even as a recap, that sucks the biggest balls. I've read better Twilight "fic" than that.

Yeah, writing is not my hobby. Matter of fact, that's the first piece of fiction I've written voluntarily in my life. There's a reason why I don't write One rule I do recall is that you're supposed to write fic about shit you like, but I hated Avatar argumentally soooooo

Snape kills Dumbledore, too.

 

[strawman]

Snape kills Dumbledore, too.

No, no, no. NO.

Snape killed Trinity with rosebud.

 

[RocketGirl]

I did my review on YouTube:

 

[Deschain]

It is a shame those resources prevented an Exterminatus.

There are tons of movies, books, etc where what you said is SO not true.

Yes, but in many of those human 'guts' and 'courage' or 'Mary Sues' seem to make for that. Cue Halo.

 

[Cajungal]

Who reads a fanfic of something they haven't seen yet (if they plan to see it, that is)?

 

[North_Ranger]

... Man I would have loved hanging out in the public plaza back during the various imperialist eras.

Postcolonial studies and literature, man.

Said, Edward: Orientalism
Mannoni, Octave: Prospero & Caliban
Fanon, Frantz: Wretched of the Earth and Black Skin, White Masks
Lamming, George: Pleasures of Exile

Fiction:
Achebe, Chinua. Things Fall Apart
Rhys, Jean. Wide Sargasso Sea
Warner, Marina. Indigo

If you have the time...

 

[Charlie Don't Surf]

Who reads a fanfic of something they haven't seen yet (if they plan to see it, that is)?

The spoiler was in the first line or two of the post. I assumed the fanfic was shitty because all fanfic is shitty

 

[Tinwhistler]

You had me at "who reads a fanfic?"

 

[Iaculus]

Who reads a fanfic of something they haven't seen yet (if they plan to see it, that is)?

The spoiler was in the first line or two of the post. I assumed the fanfic was shitty because all fanfic is shitty[/QUOTE]

I disagree.

90% (or more) of fanfic is absolute crap, for the same reason that 90% (or more) of all web-based fiction (including webcomics) is crap; there is no publishing process to weed out the worst of it before it becomes easily-accessible by the general public. That does not mean, though, that good fanfiction is an utter impossibility, in the same way that good webcomics are not an impossibility.

Whilst I can't speak for the quality of my own work, I wouldn't have started writing it if I didn't believe that.

 

[fade]

I guess I don't need to spoiler the following, but:

I saw it yesterday. It was good and entertaining, but as I suspected highly derivative. Cameron more or less rented Fern Gully and replaced a shrinking spell with an avatar. I mean they really hammered the whole "look! Biofeedback is literally real here!" thing into the ground. The characters were all pretty cookie cutter. The female lead and Tsu'Tey were straight from about a billion other films. Not to mention, I felt they missed a ton of good dialogue opportunities. Scientists were off-the-shelf elitist jerks (most I know aren't -- but maybe that's just geologists), and marines were kill-happy unfeeling jerks. Especially the hard-boiled CO. Because of the preformed nature of the characters, I had a difficult time connecting with or liking any of them, with the possible exception of Weaver's character (who looked pretty hot as an avatar). If I had to pick a word to describe Avatar, it would be generic. Not bad, but not spectacular either. Worth the ticket, but probably not worth a re-watch.

 

[RocketGirl]

...and marines were kill-happy unfeeling jerks. Especially the hard-boiled CO.

I always wonder about this trope, these think-with-your-guns types, the ones who are just itching for any excuse to unleash their hardware.

One of my favorite book series--The Vorkosigan Saga by Lois McMaster Bujold--involves mercenaries for a fair amount of it, and the point is often hammered home just how much these mercs would rather not fight if they can possibly avoid it. The question is often asked--well, okay, shouted--"Do you prefer frontal assaults, soldier?" to which the expected answer is, "No, sir!"
These folks want to fight smart, not hard.

But it's never like that in the movies. In the movies, they're ALWAYS the if-I-can-win-by-blowing-it-up-then-I-will types. Whassup wi' dat?

 

[ElJuski]

Who reads a fanfic of something they haven't seen yet (if they plan to see it, that is)?

The spoiler was in the first line or two of the post. I assumed the fanfic was shitty because all fanfic is shitty[/QUOTE]

I disagree.

90% (or more) of fanfic is absolute crap, for the same reason that 90% (or more) of all web-based fiction (including webcomics) is crap; there is no publishing process to weed out the worst of it before it becomes easily-accessible by the general public. That does not mean, though, that good fanfiction is an utter impossibility, in the same way that good webcomics are not an impossibility.

Whilst I can't speak for the quality of my own work, I wouldn't have started writing it if I didn't believe that.[/QUOTE]

Fanfiction is mainly imitation. People have the bones of something already laid out, and it just requires them to not color outside of the lines. Which people rarely do, since many people don't have the technical skill or creative savvy to do much more than make an uncanny imitation of the piece in general.

What compounds this problem is that there is a large section of fantasy and science fiction which is shitty writing already.

 

[RocketGirl]

Fanfiction is mainly imitation.

...and wish fulfillment.

From "I wish they would do/encounter X," to "I wish A and B would fuck each other," or possibly, "I wish they hadn't done Y," as well as just plain, "What if Z?", a lot of fan fic is just a big ol' game of Pretend™ someone plays with themselves, then puts it in a form for other net nerds to complain about...

I did my time in the Star Wars fan film scene; I've been there, done that, got the forum ban.

 

[Iaculus]

Who reads a fanfic of something they haven't seen yet (if they plan to see it, that is)?

The spoiler was in the first line or two of the post. I assumed the fanfic was shitty because all fanfic is shitty[/quote]

I disagree.

90% (or more) of fanfic is absolute crap, for the same reason that 90% (or more) of all web-based fiction (including webcomics) is crap; there is no publishing process to weed out the worst of it before it becomes easily-accessible by the general public. That does not mean, though, that good fanfiction is an utter impossibility, in the same way that good webcomics are not an impossibility.

Whilst I can't speak for the quality of my own work, I wouldn't have started writing it if I didn't believe that.[/quote]

Fanfiction is mainly imitation. People have the bones of something already laid out, and it just requires them to not color outside of the lines. Which people rarely do, since many people don't have the technical skill or creative savvy to do much more than make an uncanny imitation of the piece in general.

What compounds this problem is that there is a large section of fantasy and science fiction which is shitty writing already.[/QUOTE]

True... though given the sheer amount of ripping off one encounters in internet fiction (hell-ooo Penny Arcade clone #3487!), the honesty of fanfic is often rather refreshing. When approached in the right way (again, note Sturgeon's Law), it's an interesting self-imposed challenge to write a decent, original story within the constraints of another person's setting, and for the readers, it's a good way to explore possibilities either left unexplored or horribly screwed up by the canon writers. Speaking of shitty writing in canon, there is always the rare but welcome fic that successfully deconstructs or improves upon the dodginess of an existing text... such as this rather disturbing little Twilight fic.

The difference between good fanfic and bad fanfic, to me, is often the same as the difference betwen a good or bad additional episode in a series - it's just that due to the lack of budget/quality control/whatever, it's easier to find bad than good.

 

[ElJuski]

And to me, the similarity between all fanfic and "additional" episodes in a series, is that they're all unneccessary.

BUT, I won't piss on your parade if you find doing that stuff fun. I just won't ever read it

 

[Chippy]

I thought this film was AWESOME. Predictable at times, yeah, but holy shit did it rock my face off.

Just saw it last night. Pretty much this.

 

[Iaculus]

And to me, the similarity between all fanfic and "additional" episodes in a series, is that they're all unneccessary.

BUT, I won't piss on your parade if you find doing that stuff fun. I just won't ever read it

Depends on the nature of the series. In a story with a tight, defined arc? Hell, yes. In that case, the best option for a ficcer is generally "what if things happened differently?". What if, for instance, the cast of the Star Wars prequels (on both sides) had been blessed with functioning brains? Often, you may come out of a story feeling "This would have been so much better if X had happened". Fanfiction writers take that and run with it.

The pitfalls are obvious - characters getting turned into invincible Mary Sues and all conflict getting leeched from the story is the most common. Nevertheless, if the writer has the imagination for it, they can overcome these issues, especially if they consider all the implications of the change they're making, good as well as bad. Done right, they can send the story spiralling off in new, unexpected, and interesting directions. If they're really lucky, they can even exceed the source material (not that that's always hard with these sorts of things).

For more episodic series, though? It's debatable. If the original doesn't focus much on plot (due to, say, being a slice-of-life show or focusing on a setting rather than a story), then ficcers basically have a sandbox to play around in. That's where stuff like the continuations, the 'extra episodes', and the fleshings-out come in. As always, note Sturgeon's Law.

No piece of fiction is 'necessary' per se - what matters is whether it's a good, interesting read.

 

[ElJuski]

No, no piece of fiction is 'necessary', but! Some are more unneccesary than others.

I really would rather spend my time reading other bouts of great fiction rather than middling about a so-so universe like Star Wars.

BUT, again, at this point we're beginning to argue personal preference that goes beyond the aesthetic.

 

[Iaculus]

No, no piece of fiction is 'necessary', but! Some are more unneccesary than others.

I really would rather spend my time reading other bouts of great fiction rather than middling about a so-so universe like Star Wars.

BUT, again, at this point we're beginning to argue personal preference that goes beyond the aesthetic.

True, but it provides a nice distraction when you're short on budget and a long way from a book store (holds up student card), and from a writer's perspective, seeing all the different possibilities on offer and their varying qualities can teach you a lot about the medium.

Some of it may not be anything you wanted to know in the first place, though...

 

[ElJuski]

I'm a student, too, and just as broke. They're called libraries, man. And as for learning about the medium, I can learn about writing from a ton of different authors. There's no real rationale for reading fan fiction besides wanting to.

 

[Cajungal]

You had me at "who reads a fanfic?"

Amen, brother.

 

[Iaculus]

I'm a student, too, and just as broke. They're called libraries, man. And as for learning about the medium, I can learn about writing from a ton of different authors. There's no real rationale for reading fan fiction besides wanting to.

Medical inability to drive plus ridiculously high taxi fares rather limits my options around here, library-wise. Also, fanfic (at its best, anyway) offers slightly different things from original work - showing how a bad idea can become good, or the smallest details can plausibly alter a story in the largest ways. Half the fun is seeing a batshit insane story concept pulled off well, and whilst I am aware that this also occurs in original work - hello, Slaughterhouse Five - the insanity is usually of a different flavour.

For the record, yes, I do also read original fiction, and plenty of it. It's just that it's hard to get all literary classics, all the time (not every author is a Vonnegut or a Steinbeck), and for the middle-of-the-road, fun-but-nothing-special stuff, some of the best fanfiction actually provides a pretty good substitute. You just have to know where to find it.

Oh, and just a a pedantic point, some fanfiction has made it into the realms of literature - Paradise Lost, for instance. It's just that even I admit finding something like that on fanfiction.net is pretty damned unlikely.

 

[edzepp]

I saw it on Sunday. It was a good time, but it wasn't even the least bit original. The performance capture and effects are definitely the best in their class though. My mother (who I went to see it with) apparently couldn't quite tell that the Navi were CGI.

 

[twitchmoss]

so, finally saw it. my thoughts? CGI was fantastic, plot was ...not. how is this different from every other review?

i finish it by playing the spoons. with my teeth.

*plays i've got a brand new combine harvester*

 

[TwoBit]

CGI was fantastic, plot was ...not.

Seems like 90% of the reviews of Avatar can be boiled down to basically this sentence.

 

[strawman]

CGI was fantastic, plot was ...not.

Seems like 90% of the reviews of Avatar can be boiled down to basically this sentence.[/QUOTE]

Which only makes sense. You only do one new/original thing in a test movie that requires such a huge budget - you don't also go out on a limb with the script.

Pick a safe script that will guaranteed get your money back and then some, and since the movie paid for a lot of the capital skills and equipment for the tech stuff, it will be cheaper next time, and you can go out a bit more towards the edge.

 

[SpecialKO]

I can go with the plot being unremarkable, but is it watchable?

All the trailers I've seen make the Dances with Smurfs stuff seem really cringe-inducing.

 

[strawman]

Smurfs stuff seem really cringe-inducing.

THEY'RE NOT SMURFS!!!!

They're blue creatures who live in harmony with the environment... and... try to... uh... foil the plot of the mean human that attacks them.... and... uh...

STUPID SMURFS!

 

[SpecialKO]

Hey, if James Cameronreally wanted me to see this movie, the human military unit would have a ridiculous name whose acronym would spell G.A.R.G.A.M.E.L.

 

[Rob King]

Hey, if James Cameronreally wanted me to see this movie, the human military unit would have a ridiculous name whose acronym would spell G.A.R.G.A.M.E.L.

Grand Army of Rarely Granted Arms, Mainly for Eliminating Lifeforms

Yeah, I'm not very good at backronyming.