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So... I'm on facebook and some of my family is retardedly republican. You know what I mean. OBAMA IS A MUSLIM, etc, etc. And I will be honest, I spend most of my time assuming these people are a very small but vocal group, just like during the Bush years we had daily screechers doing their thing on the left.

But I'm starting to worry... are they a minority? What does a real conservative do when he has to vote between a Sarah Palin and a far left candidate? I am truly worried about the political future of the right.

Just my musings here... I'm just don't know how to deal with the lack of common sense and the crazy. It makes me feel hopeless.

Espy said:

So... I'm on facebook and some of my family is retardedly republican. You know what I mean. OBAMA IS A MUSLIM, etc, etc. And I will be honest, I spend most of my time assuming these people are a very small but vocal group, just like during the Bush years we had daily screechers doing their thing on the left.

But I'm starting to worry... are they a minority? What does a real conservative do when he has to vote between a Sarah Palin and a far left candidate? I am truly worried about the political future of the right.

Just my musings here... I'm just don't know how to deal with the lack of common sense and the crazy. It makes me feel hopeless.

Click to expand...

I fall into a similar vote being a Conservative in Canada. I can post that I hope so-and-so gets elected and I get hammer-smashed with messages calling me everything from a Sarah Palin lover to a right-wing nutjob who they don't want to see on their friends list.

*shrug* You could fight fire with fire and post mocking statuses like OBAMA SNAPS INTO A SLIM JIM. Eventually they'll get tired of it.

Well, I really, REALLY don't believe that a nutjob like Sarah Palin could get elected so I'm not super concerned with that, more the lack of common sense among so many people I know. And to be fair, it's on both sides so I guess I shouldn't just bitch about just one. I have several buddies on facebook that are liberal and they say just as many dumbass things on a daily basis but... that doesn't bother me as much as the other.
I guess I'm tired of my faith in humanity slipping away...

I'm pulling for the real conservatives. I really am. The nutty right is scary and intentionally ignorant of the facts. I hope you guys come out of it stronger and can take back the party. There's a lot I like about conservative values, and it provides a balance (though admittedly balance is a subjective word) to liberal policies.

Good luck, guys. I'm rooting for ya. Every time I see a conservative reject the crazy people I cheer inside.

Krisken said:

I'm pulling for the real conservatives. I really am. The nutty right is scary and intentionally ignorant of the facts. I hope you guys come out of it stronger and can take back the party. There's a lot I like about conservative values, and it provides a balance (though admittedly balance is a subjective word) to liberal policies.

Good luck, guys. I'm rooting for ya. Every time I see a conservative reject the crazy people I cheer inside.

Click to expand...

Define "real conservative," though. If you're talking about the bible-thumpers, I agree. I want to see the Republicans get back to small government, personal liberty, and fiscal responsibility. However, since you and I have gone at each other many times, I get the sense we're not on the same page.

Armadillo;296749][quote=Krisken said:

I'm pulling for the real conservatives. I really am. The nutty right is scary and intentionally ignorant of the facts. I hope you guys come out of it stronger and can take back the party. There's a lot I like about conservative values, and it provides a balance (though admittedly balance is a subjective word) to liberal policies.

Good luck, guys. I'm rooting for ya. Every time I see a conservative reject the crazy people I cheer inside.

Click to expand...

Define "real conservative," though. If you're talking about the bible-thumpers, I agree. I want to see the Republicans get back to small government, personal liberty, and fiscal responsibility. However, since you and I have gone at each other many times, I get the sense we're not on the same page.[/QUOTE]
While I like the values, I don't always agree with them. They are good points for countering excess. Disagreeing with ya on those issues doesn't mean I am for larger government institutions and rampant spending.

Yes, I mean the more extreme elements. The Michelle Bachman's, the rapture awaiters, and those who would rather intentionally misinterpret the constitution and history to support their ideas on what the nation should be.

Don't worry, Espy, I'm still here not being crazy for you. Just not on Facebook. Or available by phone. Or in person. Or through a network of shared friends, really. But don't worry anyways because I'm here. For you. Not being crazy.

Feel better?

I'd like to see the Goldwater type conservatives come back into power. I;m a pretty liberal person myself, but like Krisken, I believe both sides need to be there to exert a balance on each other and stop the far left or far right from doing something monumentally stupid.

I've tried to explain to fellow liberals (some of whom agree, some of whom are unreachable idiots) that conservatism isn't blind, jingoistic love of war, country and god. It's not violent xenophobia, religious intolerance and racism codified into a political party. Just as the Left isn't a massive scheme to convert the nation into a communist nightmare.

SO yeah Espy, I;m hoping the Bachmans, Limbaughs and Palins are finally exposed for using your party's name to justify their madness, and that we can have a modicum of civility back in politics.

AHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Check out the Googel Ads for me on this thread!!

Krisken said:

While I like the values, I don't always agree with them. They are good points for countering excess. Disagreeing with ya on those issues doesn't mean I am for larger government institutions and rampant spending.

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Yes it does, you pinko.

Espy, I go through this quite a bit.

I was admonished (by my family) for not voting for/supporting McCain/Palin. I didn't vote for Obama or McCain. They just say i was supporting democrats by not supporting the republicans. They are blinded by ANY candidate that spouts they are a "strong Christian." That's pretty much all they say about Palin. They don't see that she is a funked-up, opportunistic, politician. I doubt she has one moral bone in her body.

They believe some really odd things about Obama. I am too embarrassed to repeat them here.

I've told them I'm done supporting the party, especially the republican party. That doesn't mean I align myself with democrats/libertarians/independents. I am without a party as of now, and probably won't have one in the near future. I don't fit in right now. I think more true conservatives need to take the brave step of stepping away from the republican party. The party has certainly left us.

I think they think I'm turning into a liberal, but I am just seeing through the shit clearer than they are.

My dad surprises me the most. He's always been a free-thinker. Made his own choices, didn't always vote party-line. I couldn't believe he got behind McCain simply b/c he didn't want Obama to get it, and that McCain was the lesser of 2 evils. My mom just thinks that anyone that says they're a strong Christian, then that makes them a good candidate. :frusty:

Espy said:

So... I'm on facebook and some of my family is retardedly republican. You know what I mean. OBAMA IS A MUSLIM, etc, etc. And I will be honest, I spend most of my time assuming these people are a very small but vocal group, just like during the Bush years we had daily screechers doing their thing on the left.

But I'm starting to worry... are they a minority? What does a real conservative do when he has to vote between a Sarah Palin and a far left candidate? I am truly worried about the political future of the right.

Just my musings here... I'm just don't know how to deal with the lack of common sense and the crazy. It makes me feel hopeless.

Click to expand...

My family is the exact same way. My dad watches Fox News all day, parrots Glen Beck and Sean Hannity (if he's not watching them on TV he's listening to them on the radio), uses Obama's middle name whenever he refers to him, calls his reforms communist, etc.

Do what I do, run away to college and live in a dorm for most of the year.

The lunatic fringe is terrifying and I look forward to the day when principled conservatives are in control of their party again.

But in the meantime, let's all thank Ronald Reagan for his wonderful legacy.

My parents don't do politics. My father-in-law is a Glenn Beck watching conservative, but he watches just for the laughs (And to get his blood riled up about those kerrraaaazy liberals). I told him I voted for the Communist Party in our last election just to rile him up.

My wife laughs because she knows him and I share the same view on a lot of things but we both go to opposite ends of the spectrum to get each other angry

drawn_inward said:

Espy, I go through this quite a bit.

I was admonished (by my family) for not voting for/supporting McCain/Palin. I didn't vote for Obama or McCain. They just say i was supporting democrats by not supporting the republicans. They are blinded by ANY candidate that spouts they are a "strong Christian." That's pretty much all they say about Palin. They don't see that she is a funked-up, opportunistic, politician. I doubt she has one moral bone in her body.

Click to expand...

I don't know that this is a fair statement. I mean, Todd seems like a pretty decent guy.

Fun Size;296850][quote=drawn_inward said:

Espy, I go through this quite a bit.

I was admonished (by my family) for not voting for/supporting McCain/Palin. I didn't vote for Obama or McCain. They just say i was supporting democrats by not supporting the republicans. They are blinded by ANY candidate that spouts they are a "strong Christian." That's pretty much all they say about Palin. They don't see that she is a funked-up, opportunistic, politician. I doubt she has one moral bone in her body.

Click to expand...

I don't know that this is a fair statement. I mean, Todd seems like a pretty decent guy.[/QUOTE]

Nepotism is great!

Espy said:

But I'm starting to worry... are they a minority? What does a real conservative do when he has to vote between a Sarah Palin and a far left candidate? I am truly worried about the political future of the right.

Click to expand...

Cast your protest vote for Libertarians. Tell every Democrat you see why they suck, and tell every Republican you see why THEY suck too. Tell them if they are still voting republican, they're not actually voting conservative, they're voting hypocrite.

if they were the majority, Obama kind of wouldn't be President now

drawn_inward said:

I think they think I'm turning into a liberal, but I am just seeing through the shit clearer than they are.

Click to expand...

I HATE THAT. I know some of you will find this hilarious but I cannot tell you how many times I am called a "liberal" because of my conservative stances.

You know, I want to thank Gas. Just when you think your side is about as horrible and stupid as they can get you get reminded that the other side is just as stupid and disgusting

GasBandit said:

Code Pink .. full of class .. apparently targeted children of military families on Halloween.

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.

Most of the people from my hometown are Republican. Most of them are pretty level headed. They'll make jokes about Democrats sometimes, just like Democrats do to them. I do, however, know a few who are reeeally nuts. For example, there's one girl I know, over 18, mind you, who's "not allowed" to bring home a Democrat and announce him as her boyfriend. And that's not the worst thing I've heard either.

A lot of the Republicans among my friends in the NYC/tristate area are kind of going through a variety of political identity crises.

They're "New York Republicans" in every way. They're all fiscal conservatives who, for the most part, highly dislike social spending and market regulation, but on the culture side, they support gay marriage (if as a enforcement of current law as opposed to the creation of new explicit laws, admittedly), take the middle ground on gun control, and are mostly pro-choice.

And so they disagree completely with the lockstep, culture war approach the national party has taken over the last handful of years. And while even though many of them disagreed with Scozzafava on individual issues, the culture warriors' inserting themselves into NY-23 really went over badly with them.

TeKeo said:

They're "New York Republicans" in every way. They're all fiscal conservatives who, for the most part, highly dislike social spending and market regulation, but on the culture side, they support gay marriage (if as a enforcement of current law as opposed to the creation of new explicit laws, admittedly), take the middle ground on gun control, and are mostly pro-choice.

Click to expand...

In other words, they're Libertarians.

Espy said:

You know, I want to thank Gas. Just when you think your side is about as horrible and stupid as they can get you get reminded that the other side is just as stupid and disgusting.

Click to expand...

Pretty much this. American Politics has always been an ugly, ugly affair. Your best bet is to accept this fact, continue doing what you believe is right, hope for the best, and take comfort in the fact that the country is pretty durable.

It's just frightening to watch the Republican Party become more LaRouche than Lincoln.

As is probably typical for a small town in the rural Midwest, the vast majority of people here are right-wing. It's next to impossible to get voted into public office here as a Democrat, which is why a good friend, an Assistant State's Attorney, has started telling people he's a Republican, in case he ever decides to run for office or the bench.

Thus, I am much more exposed to the nut jobs on the right than the left (and yeah, I'm aware there's crazy people on all sides, everywhere). It's really hard to not be bothered by it, especially when I hear statements like the ones that are already mentioned in this thread. I've also heard remarkably ignorant things about Hillary, such as "women can't be world leaders" because "they're too emotional" and "she'll start launching nukes" as soon as that time of the month comes around. And yes, the person who said this was entirely and completely serious.

I'm not really sure what advice I can give, because I'm also concerned that eventually the totally-nuts-crazy people will win over enough others that are easily swayed to actually do something truly horrible. I try not to think about it, and when I do, I simply hope that I will be gone by the time it happens. Sometimes I am thankful that my life expectancy is remarkably short.

Ah well, maybe I'm just pessimistic.

Speaking of crazy people controlling the Republican party, the GOP has censured LINDSAY FUCKING GRAHAM for being too liberal

Kissinger said:

Speaking of crazy people controlling the Republican party, the GOP has censured LINDSAY FUCKING GRAHAM for being too liberal

Click to expand...

No, they censured him for being too bipartisan. There's a difference. It's similar to the difference between republicanism and conservatism.

Ah, here's where this belongs! Well, best fits given the options.

My parents are prejudice against some people and some of my friends because they are not Asian, but they usually keep it to themselves.

I, myself, think prejudice is silly. Why put so much energy into hate? (then again, I get tired when I fight with my wife verbally sometimes. I hate fighting) There are enough problem in the world that is WAY out of my control than for me to worry about why X person I should continue to hate for Y years/generations..... it is just too much work.

Forgive and forget and move on. You only got one life to live. Have fun doing it instead of being miserable.

This leads to politics: my father has some personal idea and opinion which doesn't match my own.

now as for political parties? well...... it takes a lot of money and clout to even TRY to run for president (even semi successful in terms of party nomination) It is a two party system, it will be a long time before an independent won the president seat (that is NOT supported by Republican or Democrats) There are some independent on the Senate and House.

Chibibar said:

Why put so much energy into hate?

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:director:"Your eyes are full of hate, forty-one. That's good. Hate keeps a man alive. It gives him strength. "

So the campus libertarian alliance held a gathering today...it was odd.

I know a decent amount of libertarians, and I tend to find the intellectual ones, the ones that have read Locke, pretty knowledgeable about what their party actually stands for...these weren't those people.

Gas, as much as I admire the ideals real Libertarians hold, the Libertarian party in this country has become kind of a safe-house for the far, far right whack-jobs that think 700 club are liberal communists. I heard slogans more or less advocating a return to the 1890's robber-baron era of deregulation, people demanding that minimum wage and equal pay bills be withdrawn and lunatics shouting that 'the poor deserve to die because they're lazy'.

I'm not generalizing, I realize that's a very small minority, but it seems these days that the rule of thumb is that the more bat-shit insane you are, the more people listen to you.

My mom: "That Obama is cutting unemployment benefits! He says if people really want jobs they can just find 'em! So much for his actually wanting to help the economy."

Me: "I thought you didn't like him for being a socialist. That doesn't sound very socialist at all."

Mum: "He's an al-qaeda. What's an al-qaeda?"

/facepalm

---

My impression that there are more right wingers who are this wacky is based entirely on anecdotal evidence, I admit. I'm fine with most American constitutional conservatives, libertarians that aren't neocon nutjobs, and I even have a few good friends who are moderate modern republicans. However, I really do wish the American right would die in a fire so that something sane could rise from the ashes.

RealBigNuke said:

My mom: "That Obama is cutting unemployment benefits! He says if people really want jobs they can just find 'em! So much for his actually wanting to help the economy."

Me: "I thought you didn't like him for being a socialist. That doesn't sound very socialist at all."

Mum: "He's an al-qaeda. What's an al-qaeda?"

/facepalm

Click to expand...

For me, the facepalm is asking what an Al Qaeda is. Jesus, 9/11 was just eight years ago!

GasBandit;297615][quote=TeKeo said:

They're "New York Republicans" in every way. They're all fiscal conservatives who, for the most part, highly dislike social spending and market regulation, but on the culture side, they support gay marriage (if as a enforcement of current law as opposed to the creation of new explicit laws, admittedly), take the middle ground on gun control, and are mostly pro-choice.

Click to expand...

In other words, they're Libertarians.[/QUOTE]

More or less, I suppose. The GOP used to be about those things, and, in a lot of ways, still is in NY, parts of NJ, and Connecticut.

I guess what rubs me the wrong way the most about the national GOP's behavior intervention in elections like NY-23 is that the idea that a person has to pass a belief-oriented litmus test to be part of a political party, when it really should be the other way around.

Armadillo;298015][quote=RealBigNuke said:

My mom: "That Obama is cutting unemployment benefits! He says if people really want jobs they can just find 'em! So much for his actually wanting to help the economy."

Me: "I thought you didn't like him for being a socialist. That doesn't sound very socialist at all."

Mum: "He's an al-qaeda. What's an al-qaeda?"

/facepalm

Click to expand...

For me, the facepalm is asking what an Al Qaeda is. Jesus, 9/11 was just eight years ago![/QUOTE]

The other day I overheard some of my kids at school talking about how Al Qaeda is another name for the Iraqi army.

I learned it by watching you, dad!

When I say "my kids at school" I mean students in my classroom. I teach high school history.

Yeah, American politics have verged on the crazy side of things many times in the past. Trouble is, this is the wrong time to have the crazies prevail over the level-headed ones. We're at war, out of money, losing jobs, and or currency's probably going to lose its place as the world standard.

It's things like this that bring out the doomsayer in me.

TeKeo;298229][quote=GasBandit said:

In other words, they're Libertarians.

Click to expand...

More or less, I suppose. The GOP used to be about those things, and, in a lot of ways, still is in NY, parts of NJ, and Connecticut.

I guess what rubs me the wrong way the most about the national GOP's behavior intervention in elections like NY-23 is that the idea that a person has to pass a belief-oriented litmus test to be part of a political party, when it really should be the other way around.[/QUOTE]

Indeed it should be the other way around. Barry Goldwater, where art thou?

WolfOfOdin said:

So the campus libertarian alliance held a gathering today...it was odd.

Click to expand...

Well, of course it was. It was CAMPUS libertarians.

Gas, as much as I admire the ideals real Libertarians hold, the Libertarian party in this country has become kind of a safe-house for the far, far right whack-jobs that think 700 club are liberal communists. I heard slogans more or less advocating a return to the 1890's robber-baron era of deregulation, people demanding that minimum wage and equal pay bills be withdrawn and lunatics shouting that 'the poor deserve to die because they're lazy'.

I'm not generalizing, I realize that's a very small minority, but it seems these days that the rule of thumb is that the more bat-shit insane you are, the more people listen to you.

Click to expand...

Well, as we're reminded every day around here, every party has its wackjobs. All you can really do is look at what each party purports to stand for, and how well they back it up. Currently the Republican party, which has pretended to conservatism for decades, is vastly hypocritical - completely failing to live up to what they claim to stand for. In the 90s they squandered a legislative majority by wasting a year on attempting to impeach Clinton, forgetting the "contract with america" that put them there in the first place. They enjoyed a majority for most of the Bush years, but instead of taking the opportunity to reduce spending and enact their professed agenda, they "spent like drunken Democrats" in the words of many commentators, and completely forfeited the last shred of their political sway with true conservatives. What is a true conservative, you may ask? Well, let me put it this way... if you vote Republican because of abortion, gays, or Jesus, you're not a conservative.

I prefer not to talk politics with my family.

Until recently (after having a talk with her), my Mom thought all Roma (Gypsies) were horsethieves.

When Finland passed civil union legislation for gay people, my Dad muttered something about Sodom and Gomorrah.

My uncle and my cousin's husband are vocally racist, and I shudder to think they may have voted for our regional version of Glenn Beck in the last parliamentary elections.

North_Ranger said:

Until recently (after having a talk with her), my Mom thought all Roma (Gypsies) were horsethieves.

Click to expand...

I've spent some time in Europe and I always got the impression that in general the Roma are just looked at poorly. Is that true?

North_Ranger said:

Until recently (after having a talk with her), my Mom thought all Roma (Gypsies) were horsethieves.

Click to expand...

Is...is horse thievery even a problem anymore?

Do you also have problems with train robbery, claim jumping, and shootouts at high noon?

Soliloquy;299423][quote=North_Ranger said:

Until recently (after having a talk with her), my Mom thought all Roma (Gypsies) were horsethieves.

Click to expand...

Is...is horse thievery even a problem anymore?

Do you also have problems with train robbery, claim jumping, and shootouts at high noon?[/QUOTE]

No... instead we have:

- Grand Theft Auto (Horse Thievery)
- Emmiment Domain (State Sponsored Claim Jumping)
- Gang Wars (Shootouts at High Noon)

AshburnerX;299432][quote=Soliloquy;299423][quote=North_Ranger said:

Until recently (after having a talk with her), my Mom thought all Roma (Gypsies) were horsethieves.

Click to expand...

Is...is horse thievery even a problem anymore?

Do you also have problems with train robbery, claim jumping, and shootouts at high noon?[/QUOTE]

No... instead we have:

- Grand Theft Auto (Horse Thievery)
- Emmiment Domain (State Sponsored Claim Jumping)
- Gang Wars (Shootouts at High Noon)[/QUOTE]

Friggin' Gypsies.

Soliloquy;299423][quote=North_Ranger said:

Until recently (after having a talk with her), my Mom thought all Roma (Gypsies) were horsethieves.

Click to expand...

Is...is horse thievery even a problem anymore?

Do you also have problems with train robbery, claim jumping, and shootouts at high noon?[/QUOTE]

There are bits of Finland past the Arctic Circle.

Every hour of the day is high noon there, baby.

Espy;299202][quote=North_Ranger said:

Until recently (after having a talk with her), my Mom thought all Roma (Gypsies) were horsethieves.

Click to expand...

I've spent some time in Europe and I always got the impression that in general the Roma are just looked at poorly. Is that true?[/QUOTE]

I'm hesitant to make any general statements. After all, we are talking about a region with over 500m. people, dozens of languages, distinct cultures and belief systems.

But it is my understanding that at least in Eastern Europe the Roma are pretty much treated as second-class citizens. Here in Finland they are treated with some level of suspicion, mostly because the Roma here are pretty conservative and stick to their own traditions and own social circles. The few places of contact with what they call valkolaiset, 'whitelings' or the rest of the society (though the term is also used for translating the Yiddish term goy), is usually through music, horse racing or elementary schools.

---------- Post added at 08:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:46 PM ----------

Soliloquy;299423][quote=North_Ranger said:

Until recently (after having a talk with her), my Mom thought all Roma (Gypsies) were horsethieves.

Click to expand...

Is...is horse thievery even a problem anymore?

Do you also have problems with train robbery, claim jumping, and shootouts at high noon?[/QUOTE]

Hey, Finland was a predominantly agrarian society until the Second World War, so horses were pretty damn valuable. It's a figure of speech. Kinda liking associating Mexicans with guys sleeping against walls in ponchos and sombreros. It's an anachronistic image, but it's still recognizable.

---------- Post added at 08:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:49 PM ----------

Iaculus;299596][quote=Soliloquy;299423][quote=North_Ranger said:

Until recently (after having a talk with her), my Mom thought all Roma (Gypsies) were horsethieves.

Click to expand...

Is...is horse thievery even a problem anymore?

Do you also have problems with train robbery, claim jumping, and shootouts at high noon?[/QUOTE]

There are bits of Finland past the Arctic Circle.

Every hour of the day is high noon there, baby. [/QUOTE]

Not right now, it ain't. We are currently in kaamos, or the dark time of the year. It starts to get dark around 3pm, and I live pretty much in the southernmost parts of Finland.

I do not discuss politics or religion with my family.

Every time I do, I end up getting drowned out by sheer numbers. Only atheist in a family of hardcore Christians, and the only person in our family who doesn't think Obama is the Antichrist. (I wish I was kidding.)

Well, obviously you can't think he's the anti-Christ since you don't think there's an actual-Christ.

...Touche!

Clarification: I am the only one who respects our President enough to not advocate someone shooting him.

That shouldn't require a whole heck of a lot of respect.

I know. They honestly believe he's evil, he hates America, he's out to make Christians suffer, he's trying to make Islam the state religion, etc.

It's really depressing, because otherwise, my family rocks.

AshburnerX;299432][quote=Soliloquy;299423][quote=North_Ranger said:

Until recently (after having a talk with her), my Mom thought all Roma (Gypsies) were horsethieves.

Click to expand...

Is...is horse thievery even a problem anymore?

Do you also have problems with train robbery, claim jumping, and shootouts at high noon?[/quote]

No... instead we have:

- Grand Theft Auto (Horse Thievery)
- Emmiment Domain (State Sponsored Claim Jumping)
- Gang Wars (Shootouts at High Noon)[/QUOTE]

Ahh, remember the days when Horse Thievin' was a hangin' offense?

Good thing, too. I'm all set to do some cattle rustlin'.
I just hope that our resident Mountie isn't watching this thread.

Ahhh, the wonders of two-party politics. This is why a two party system is fundamentally undemocratic and why it WILL fail. (note: I believe all political systems are doomed to fail and face a revolution sooner or later.) I just find it scary how every year, Heinlein's Future History comes closer and closer (in that timeline, the US turns into a theocracy in the 2020s because of right-wing christians taking over all houses and the presidency and stacking all the courts etc with their people.
A multiple party system would allow for different parties with different views - a moderate one, a more extreme one, etc. It'd open up the possibility for the moderate conservatives to team up with the Christian Coalition one term, team up with the Libertarians another year, yet later with the moderate liberals,... More flexible, better representation.
Because, in the end, currently the party leaderships pretty much runs their parties as oligarchies - they choose who even gets the option to be nominated, and millions blindly follow. On both sides, of course.

we have more than 2 political parties and look the mess we're in Bubs.

Bubble181 said:

Ahhh, the wonders of two-party politics. This is why a two party system is fundamentally undemocratic and why it WILL fail. (note: I believe all political systems are doomed to fail and face a revolution sooner or later.) I just find it scary how every year, Heinlein's Future History comes closer and closer (in that timeline, the US turns into a theocracy in the 2020s because of right-wing christians taking over all houses and the presidency and stacking all the courts etc with their people.
A multiple party system would allow for different parties with different views - a moderate one, a more extreme one, etc. It'd open up the possibility for the moderate conservatives to team up with the Christian Coalition one term, team up with the Libertarians another year, yet later with the moderate liberals,... More flexible, better representation.
Because, in the end, currently the party leaderships pretty much runs their parties as oligarchies - they choose who even gets the option to be nominated, and millions blindly follow. On both sides, of course.

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I've been waiting for an excuse to post this.

Troll: I have more arguements; and my main gripe isn't that it's corporate-run. Politologically, a two-party system is pretty much the same in a lot of ways as a one-party system. They're virtually identical save for some small redeeming qualities.

Mathk: yes, but imagine we had *only* a left party, and a right party. One party with CD&V, VLD, VB,N-VA, and one party with SPA, Groen!, SLP. Who would be leading the country, and in what direction?

A Troll said:

I've been waiting for an excuse to post this.

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You realize that the argument that comic makes is "the idea is popular on the internet, and therefore false," right?

Soliloquy;303783][quote=A Troll said:

I've been waiting for an excuse to post this.

Click to expand...

You realize that the argument that comic makes is "the idea is popular on the internet, and therefore false," right?[/QUOTE]

You realize it's just supposed to be a lighthearted jab and not a serious statement, right?

A Troll;303786][quote=Soliloquy;303783][quote=A Troll said:

I've been waiting for an excuse to post this.

Click to expand...

You realize that the argument that comic makes is "the idea is popular on the internet, and therefore false," right?[/QUOTE]

You realize it's just supposed to be a lighthearted jab and not a serious statement, right?[/QUOTE]

You realize that nothing in a politics forum will ever not be taken seriously, right?

Soliloquy said:

You realize that nothing in a politics forum will ever not be taken seriously, right?

Click to expand...

That's not true! There's a lot of people and the things they say I don't take seriously in the politics forum.

Krisken;303816][quote=Soliloquy said:

You realize that nothing in a politics forum will ever not be taken seriously, right?

Click to expand...

That's not true! There's a lot of people and the things they say I don't take seriously in the politics forum.[/QUOTE]

Sir, you wound me. :waah:

Don't be fooled. The internet is serious business.

My dad is the long haired hippy of his side of the family....because he wants the government to be as responsible and accountable as possible but recognizes that sometimes the government does need to involve itself in things like health care to protect the people with no way of fairly fighting trillion dollar corporations. He's more like a conservative Democrat but he wishes that he could vote Republican, but the crazies to conservatives ratio is not in a good enough balance.

Meanwhile, his brother is a devoted Bill O'Reily fan and my grandma just doesn't like Obama because.......it's a gut thing. And death panels.