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Chazwozel
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle ... 811301.stm
Cripes this is into the 10th day already with no sign of letup.
Cripes this is into the 10th day already with no sign of letup.
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Singularity.EXE
Maybe they're attacking now since we got a lame duck president and they're trying to take it over before Obama gets in? I am really interested in what their "objective" is.
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Chazwozel
Singularity.EXE said:
They started going nuts right after the 6 month cease-fire agreement was up. Christ, all this death and warfare over a spit of land.
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Wyrminarrd
It´s all a massive conspiracy.
The oil rich arab countries paid Israel to attack Gaza in order to make oil markets fear increased instability in the middle east and thus cause the price of oil to go up :uhhuh: :aaahhh:
Seriously though I think that Israel has already managed to get as much done as it´s going to so they should call it enough for now and see if Hamas doesn´t agree to a new cease fire.
The oil rich arab countries paid Israel to attack Gaza in order to make oil markets fear increased instability in the middle east and thus cause the price of oil to go up :uhhuh: :aaahhh:
Seriously though I think that Israel has already managed to get as much done as it´s going to so they should call it enough for now and see if Hamas doesn´t agree to a new cease fire.
ElJuski
Staff member
Granted, Hamas fired first. They keep playing the annoying nag, poking and prodding, before crying and complaining when Isreal stomps on them. I don't think I have a real problem with "You kill three of me, I kill three hundred of you." I mean, I'd rather nobody had to die at all, but I don't think Isreal has to suffer these little snubs that Hamas does.Chazwozel said:
The whole region, I'm proudly proclaiming, is a mess (I know, I'm a genius and clairvoyant). Israel has to back off and Hamas needs to stop acting like pricks. But what the fuck was the UN thinking after WWII?
It's like having an indian knock on your day and say, "Heyyyy...uhh...this used to be house a couple hundred years ago...I'm gonna take it back now, see ya." It sucks that that happened in the first place, but...uhm...things have changed.
The policy on both sides seems to be, "Whatever you do to us, we'll pay back tenfold. Today, if we can, but if we can't do it today then we'll remember it for tomorrow." Presto, constant escalation and unending hatred on both sides.
Situations like these make me think maybe a global dictatorship really has its advantages, the world ruler could just say "Play nice or I annihilate you both. I don't care who started it, I'll finish it."
I think I'd make a great world dictator, now that I think about it.
Situations like these make me think maybe a global dictatorship really has its advantages, the world ruler could just say "Play nice or I annihilate you both. I don't care who started it, I'll finish it."
I think I'd make a great world dictator, now that I think about it.
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Chazwozel
ElJuski said:
Well I know that's the reason there is a conflict. The real ones to blame are the U.N.(particularly the U.K. and then the U.S.) for disregarding all the existing borders (just like colonialism did with Africa). It's the same over and over when you get one group of people told they have something while forcing another group to give it over. I get why they're attacking the Hamas, but the message has come across. It's time to lay off and work out more diplomatic solutions.
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TheBrew
Hamas has obviously shown they aren't interested in a diplomatic solution. I think Israel is trying to force a regime change and get the Fatah party back in power.
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Matt²
http://www.newkerala.com/topstory-fullnews-68571.html
the SON of Hamas' founder, talks about the current escalation, as well as his esape from the organization.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,475226,00.html
the SON of Hamas' founder, talks about the current escalation, as well as his esape from the organization.
video link : http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,475226,00.html#
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,475226,00.html
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Chazwozel
The Neon Grue said:
fauxnews? :lol:
Seriously though, he sounds like anyone else who's been de-brainwashed from a fanatical religious institution. Not that I'm siding with Hamas in this situation, but Israel isn't exactly all roses and teacups either.
Maybe Israel should let up.
Then again, maybe Hamas should stop firing rockets at civilian targets in Israel. So maybe Israel should just keep right on until not terrorist rocket is left standing. And don't worry, Israel has their share of crap they are responsible for but Hamas has been asking for this for awhile now and they are getting exactly what they expected and possibly wanted.
Then again, maybe Hamas should stop firing rockets at civilian targets in Israel. So maybe Israel should just keep right on until not terrorist rocket is left standing. And don't worry, Israel has their share of crap they are responsible for but Hamas has been asking for this for awhile now and they are getting exactly what they expected and possibly wanted.
Of course they wanted this to happen. The best way to get more terrorists is to have a big bad country kill and injure hundreds of your countrymen. I'm not saying Israel shouldn't try to defend itself, but isn't this how Hamas came to power? The people got tired of Israel beating the piss out of them. Hamas is getting exactly what they want. People think Israel is the bad guy and lots of innocent people are getting hurt.Espy said:
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Chazwozel
Again, I agree. Don't poke a sleep bear with a stick and not expect to be mauled, but they clearly made their point already.Espy said:
The Six day war ended so quickly because it was an overwhelmingly decisive victory in Israel's favour.Chazwozel said:
I daresay Israel is going to take a few extra plots of land before they stop. They're equally pissed, after all.
Plus, a ceasefire this early will be taken as "We'll live to fight another day" rather than "We want peace". The cycle is going to repeat again after a while.
The whole history is a mess - after WWII many Jews wanted to leave Europe and illegally settled in Palestine, buying land left and right and opposing the British present there. There were even terrorist attacks from the Jews towards the British occupation. When the British started imprisoning Jews, the USA came in and pretty much criticized the UK - the USA with its large Jewish population was, of course, in favour of a Jewish state.bhamv said:
So it came to the UN to decide what was to happen with Israel and we all know that the USA had substantial power after the war and also dominated the committee. It was clear from the start that it would be in favour of the Jews. So, if I were to put the blame, it would be with the USA, not the UK.
Hell, the Arab countries surrounding what is now Israel said from the start that they would not allow a Jewish state. The Arab countries had no voice in this which is really the main problem. The USA (ab)used its strong position after the war to push through many rulings in their favour and this was one of them and we can still see the mess it made.
You could argue that the Arab states should have just accepted the UN resolution but to be honest, it WAS an Arab country to start with and it was surrounded with Arab countries so why should it ever have been given back to the Jews? Imagine the UN under Russian and Chinese pressure giving back half the USA to the Indians, forcing millions of Americans to move. It WOULD be war, you can bet. And there's not even a holy city involved!
Back in the day, the Jews were pretty much hated by everybody in Europe. It wasn't just Hitler. Even the Pope and half of the Protestants hated them. So, that's pretty much an overwhelming majority. They fled to America for a reason, you know.Icarus said:
Since mass genocide is morally unacceptable, the Europeans took this opportunity to get rid of an eyesore. Just pool the Jews in some place away from Europe and leave them alone. Palestine was an obvious choice. The Americans wanted Jewish support. The Europeans wanted Jews to go away. They both had something to gain from the UN resolution.
Meh, I stopped caring to be honest. Yes, it's a tragedy, but it's been going on for so damn long that I've grown numb to it. Back in the day I'd suggest diplomacy and compromise, nowadays I just don't see that happening, ever. Let Israel go batshit insane I say and let's just get this over with.
I think what we need is a good Crusade to settle the disputes over there.
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Silvanesti
Unforuntantly, this.Seraphyn said:
As far as i can tell its going to stay like this untill some major event takes place and changes the entire region.
GasBandit
Staff member
It's pretty much guaranteed there will be no peace until one side just wipes the other out. The fact of the matter is there's just too much antipathy and too divergent opinion on the matter. Hell, even when we called Arafat's bluff and basically agreed to give Arafat everything he ever asked for, he still backed away from the table because they really don't WANT peace, they want dead jews.Silvanesti said:
Remember to keep the true distinction in mind.
the pic says it all...GasBandit said:Remember to keep the true distinction in mind.
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Scarlet Varlet
Initially I thought that, but on the other side of the shekel, Hamas actively pursued a policy of smuggling Qassam Missiles, or parts to assemble them, into Gaza as well as digging tunnels between Gaza and Egypt to mock the Egyptian Government as well. Hamas is unrepentant in their stance that Isreal must die as a nation. Their brave leader hides out in Syria.Chazwozel said:
I'm rather fed up with the whole situation, but what I think does't account one dust mote. When the Palestinian people decide they aren't gaining anything with the Hamas approach they may be willing to return to diplomacy. Only then do they achieve anything.
Hamas would also love nothing better than to drag Arab nations into another attack on Israel, which would be quite disasterous for all concerned.
Yes. Yes it would. Israel has already proven they have the world's foremost airforce in terms of sheer skill, if not technology. The numbers from the Six-Day War show as much.Scarlet Varlet said:
Seriously, hit up Wikipedia's entry on the Six-Day War. Look up the troop numbers, and then look at the casualties. It's incredible how badly they lost to Israel.
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Scarlet Varlet
Nothing compared to how badly they'd be mauled, too.Skrattybones said:
NEVER FORGET is ingrained in the Israeli consciousness, they're not about to ever let anyone hurt them again.
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Matt²
Yep! Good ol' American weaponry!! No wonder the rest of the Arab world hates us, besides our support for Israel..our weapons, sold to Israel, really kick ass.Skrattybones said:
J
JCM
To tell the truth, I wouldn't mind if they blew each other away, for we haveChazwozel said:
-a population that sympathizes with two terrorist factions (albeit they are probably manipulated, as every Palestinian has at least one relative who was killed by the Israelis and most live in what can be equaled to a concentration camp)
-a group that thinks because some old book says its their, they can take as much land as they can, albeit they have been persecuted since the beginning of time, and legally bought much of that land, and are under threat by every neighbor while coping with a few million arabs shoved into the region claiming to be Palestinians.
The only people who are victims here are the original Palestinians, who were kicked out, and probably are impossible to find anyway, with the million refugees from neighboring countries calling themselves "Palestinian"
Hopefully Obama will stop giving weapons to Israel, stop the typical "US vetoes anything with Israel's name on it" and let a proper UN base be installed there and border be finally drawn and enforced.
Anyone who thinks that Arafat had any power, should go do some reading on his life, or study about arab tribe rivalism.
Its what makes me laugh every time I hear that Iraq/Afghanistan will one day be stable, and that their presidents have any power over most tribes and factions.
GasBandit
Staff member
It'll never happen. We need them to "live test" our weapon systems for us and someone to act as our proxy in the middle east to keep our hands (relatively) clean.JCM said:
Besides, even if it did happen, the US withdrawing support from Israel would be pretty much the same as murdering every jewish man, woman and child there ourselves.
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JCM
Of course the Arab world will blow up Israel with UN peacekeeping establishing bases there,oh wait, it would actually help breakdown the situation and legitimacy to the Israeli cause. :eyeroll:GasBandit said:
As long as USA make Israel the exception, the one country where UN cannot intervene, where there can be no peacekeeping forces and no investigations on human rights abuse this shit will continue and USA continues making people laugh whenever it talks about democracy or human rights, but as for the weapons testing, well the same weapons testing was used as an excuse for Osama's airplane crashing testing, one reaps what one sows, as they would say (and has been repeated over and over in international channels at Sept 11).
Funnily, my favorite Secretary of State is the same guy who dug you guys in this pit - Kissinger.
V
Veteran
No, you're thinking of Iraq, we drew those lines on the map. With Israel we got the fuck out of dodge and let you guys take the job on.Chazwozel said:
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Matt²
in before Quiznos
I honestly do not see how you could disagree with what Israel is doing. They have made numerous attempts to have peace with the Palestinians, all of which were broken by the Palestinians. They constantly have rockets and missiles fired at their land, its about damn time they try to teach these terrorists a lesson.
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