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Daniel Tosh is an ass.
#1
GasBandit
GasBandit
So comedian Daniel Tosh tries to channel Carlin, instead pulls a Mav. Louis CK sticks up for him.
#2
Dave
Dave
If Tosh apologizes for a joke, you just KNOW it had to be way over the top. And yes, I know what he said.So comedian Daniel Tosh tries to channel Carlin, instead pulls a Mav. Louis CK sticks up for him.
#3
LittleSin
Tosh is an abortion of comedy, this just makes him even more distasteful.
Is there a irony or something in using the word 'abortion' in association with a comedian thinks it would be hilarious if his heckler was raped?
LittleSin
I read about this.So comedian Daniel Tosh tries to channel Carlin, instead pulls a Mav. Louis CK sticks up for him.
Tosh is an abortion of comedy, this just makes him even more distasteful.
Is there a irony or something in using the word 'abortion' in association with a comedian thinks it would be hilarious if his heckler was raped?
#4
LittleSin
I hate using caps...but people argument FOR what happened sound like this to me.
LittleSin
YES! BRUTALITY AGAINST THIS WOMAN THAT DARED SPEAK UP AGAINST ME IS THE FUNNIEST GODDAMN THING IN THE WORLD!!I read that. I was incredibly disgusted by it. It wasn't much of an apology either. I mean, right after that 'apology' he said
Apparently you make that point by pointing at a woman in the audience and say it would be FUNNY if she was raped by five guys RIGHT NOW. HILARIOUS! I simply cannot contain my laughter!
I hate using caps...but people argument FOR what happened sound like this to me.
#5
AshburnerX
AshburnerX
I think John Stewart said it best: Just because your a comedian doesn't mean that you don't have to face responsibility for your actions.
Honestly, I like Daniel Tosh, but that really was in bad taste. He didn't say that to be funny, he said it intimidate someone. When your using your comedy as a weapon, you stop being a comic.
Honestly, I like Daniel Tosh, but that really was in bad taste. He didn't say that to be funny, he said it intimidate someone. When your using your comedy as a weapon, you stop being a comic.
#6
Adam
Adam
And become "The Comedian!"I think John Stewart said it best: Just because your a comedian doesn't mean that you don't have to face responsibility for your actions.
Honestly, I like Daniel Tosh, but that really was in bad taste. He didn't say that to be funny, he said it intimidate someone. When your using your comedy as a weapon, you stop being a comic.
#7
LittleSin
LittleSin
I want clarify: I don't think it's right to say "Suchandsuch is NEVER funny." I'm a believer in 'anything can be funny', though I personaly struggle to think of an instance (outside of Carlins bit) where rape is funny.
The woman shouldn't have heckled him. I understand her view but there ARE other ways to voice displeasure.
However, he went to far in his come back. There was no joke there. That was him being annoyed with her and wishing something horrible on another.
He's still not funny, though.
The woman shouldn't have heckled him. I understand her view but there ARE other ways to voice displeasure.
However, he went to far in his come back. There was no joke there. That was him being annoyed with her and wishing something horrible on another.
He's still not funny, though.
#8
GasBandit
GasBandit
As I said on the disqus, if he'd said "If you don't like my act, there's the door" I'd be sticking up for him. But he doubled down and went beyond the pale. What he did is indefensible.
#9
AshburnerX
AshburnerX
Basically. He tried to intimidate the woman by making her the target of the joke, instead of just telling her to leave. He knew what he was doing.As I said on the disqus, if he'd said "If you don't like my act, there's the door" I'd be sticking up for him. But he doubled down and went beyond the pale. What he did is indefensible.
#10
WasabiPoptart
WasabiPoptart
What Tosh said to his heckler is reprehensible and disgusting. I don't find myself to be the type of person who is easily offended, but to say it would be funny for a woman to be gang raped is completely out of line.
#11
makare
makare
I honestly had no idea that guy was a comedian at all. I've seen that Tosh.o show or whatever it is called and it is pretty lame. I never would have guessed he wasn't just some random guy picked to do that stuff.
The more I know.
The more I know.
#12
Hailey Knight
Hailey Knight
This is what happens when some people stay online too long. They get away with shit behind anonymity and then it bleeds into their RL personality.
#13
LordRendar
LordRendar
True.I got called quite often on my teabagging my collegues and friends.This is what happens when some people stay online too long. They get away with shit behind anonymity and then it bleeds into their RL personality.
#14
Silent Bob
At the same time, there's this trend of audience douchebaggery prevalent among stand up comedy shows. Why do people get all offended and shocked when after they heckle a comedian, the comedian rips them a new asshole (verbally)? These guys are professional class-clowns. Their whole job is to make fun of people, and improvise an audience response on the spot. Furthermore, other people are there to see the show; not listen to how offended someone is of the material.
Don't accuse me of blaming the victim, but the lady should have just kept her mouth shut, left the club, and then blogged about how offended she was. In a sense she pretty much dangled a piece of meat in front of a bear and then wondered why she got mauled.
That said, Tosh could have made fun of her a little more tactfully instead of pulling a Michael Richards. I don't even know if it was pulling a Michael Richards, because the audience was laughing at her. I honestly don't find Tosh's stuff that offensive. Rape jokes have been around since Vaudeville.
Silent Bob
Basically. He tried to intimidate the woman by making her the target of the joke, instead of just telling her to leave. He knew what he was doing.
At the same time, there's this trend of audience douchebaggery prevalent among stand up comedy shows. Why do people get all offended and shocked when after they heckle a comedian, the comedian rips them a new asshole (verbally)? These guys are professional class-clowns. Their whole job is to make fun of people, and improvise an audience response on the spot. Furthermore, other people are there to see the show; not listen to how offended someone is of the material.
Don't accuse me of blaming the victim, but the lady should have just kept her mouth shut, left the club, and then blogged about how offended she was. In a sense she pretty much dangled a piece of meat in front of a bear and then wondered why she got mauled.
That said, Tosh could have made fun of her a little more tactfully instead of pulling a Michael Richards. I don't even know if it was pulling a Michael Richards, because the audience was laughing at her. I honestly don't find Tosh's stuff that offensive. Rape jokes have been around since Vaudeville.
#15
LordRendar
LordRendar
Whats pulling a Mav?
#16
sixpackshaker
I don't know why he's not around any more.
sixpackshaker
a forum member that made the same joke about a female forum member.Whats pulling a Mav?
I don't know why he's not around any more.
#17
Bubble181
Bubble181
...In a non-funny way.Attempting to be the biggest misogynistic asshat on the planet.
#18
Bubble181
I'm sure it's possible to be funny about any topic. Context and the way of handling it are very, very important to make the difference between "funny/edgy" and "boorish/offensive".
To take arandom example off of my facebook: I shared that article from the politics board about Wall Street people admitting they needed to do illegal/immoral things. First reply? "Written by a woman, article invalidated". The guy's doing it to provoke and antagonise (aka, he's trolling) but from him, it simply isn't funny at all. Because he's a fucking misogynist in real life, too, especially sincce he broke up with his last girlfriend (who I still think must've been a masochist to stay with him this long).
Bubble181
A-yu.That's the scary part. He was dead serious about it.
I'm sure it's possible to be funny about any topic. Context and the way of handling it are very, very important to make the difference between "funny/edgy" and "boorish/offensive".
To take arandom example off of my facebook: I shared that article from the politics board about Wall Street people admitting they needed to do illegal/immoral things. First reply? "Written by a woman, article invalidated". The guy's doing it to provoke and antagonise (aka, he's trolling) but from him, it simply isn't funny at all. Because he's a fucking misogynist in real life, too, especially sincce he broke up with his last girlfriend (who I still think must've been a masochist to stay with him this long).
#19
AshburnerX
AshburnerX
It's hilarious how often the phrase the phrase "Don't accuse me of blaming the victim" is followed by someone doing exactly that.Don't accuse me of blaming the victim, but the lady should have just kept her mouth shut, left the club, and then blogged about how offended she was. In a sense she pretty much dangled a piece of meat in front of a bear and then wondered why she got mauled.
#20
Silent Bob
Silent Bob
[DOUBLEPOST=1342044014][/DOUBLEPOST]
that's why I made the statement...
And the lady, in my opinion, was asking for exactly what she got.
yes...It's hilarious how often the phrase the phrase "Don't accuse me of blaming the victim" is followed by someone doing exactly that.
that's why I made the statement...
And the lady, in my opinion, was asking for exactly what she got.
#21
GasBandit
GasBandit
Oh boy.
#22
Silent Bob
Silent Bob
#23
Bubble181
Mind you, there's three options:
a) She wanted to get heckled in a funny way, and got this instead - dangling a piece of meat in front of a dog, and getting a big bite taken out of your leg when you just wanted to tease the animal and get a little nip -> That's just stupid on your part, even though perhaps the dog needs to be looked at and maybe put down for being too aggressive
b) She REALLY had no idea this guy was an offensive "comedian" who made jokes about offensive themes. In this case, getting up and fighting back is akin to trying to goad an animal into action, not knowing whether this animal is dangerous or not - it's stupid.
c) She came specifically to disrupt the performance. I don't have to explain why this one is bad, right?
Mind you, he crossed the line and was an offensive ass. Saying you'd like to see someone get raped? Not cool. It's not because party X overreacted that party Y is therefore not to blame at all.
Also mind you, I haven't watched the video in question since I'm at work.
Bubble181
Well, in this case, you can just attribute, to me, the sentence "the victim probably asked for it".It's hilarious how often the phrase the phrase "Don't accuse me of blaming the victim" is followed by someone doing exactly that.
Mind you, there's three options:
a) She wanted to get heckled in a funny way, and got this instead - dangling a piece of meat in front of a dog, and getting a big bite taken out of your leg when you just wanted to tease the animal and get a little nip -> That's just stupid on your part, even though perhaps the dog needs to be looked at and maybe put down for being too aggressive
b) She REALLY had no idea this guy was an offensive "comedian" who made jokes about offensive themes. In this case, getting up and fighting back is akin to trying to goad an animal into action, not knowing whether this animal is dangerous or not - it's stupid.
c) She came specifically to disrupt the performance. I don't have to explain why this one is bad, right?
Mind you, he crossed the line and was an offensive ass. Saying you'd like to see someone get raped? Not cool. It's not because party X overreacted that party Y is therefore not to blame at all.
Also mind you, I haven't watched the video in question since I'm at work.
#24
Silent Bob
Silent Bob
#25
Hailey Knight
Hailey Knight
I see this thread's going to get locked much sooner than the last Rant thread.
Mav didn't just make that joke, either. As evidenced by a certain Hall of Shame thread, he pretty much viewed women as a lesser class of people who don't know what they want (hint: they really want Mav).
Easily the second most disgusting person we've had on the forums.
Mav didn't just make that joke, either. As evidenced by a certain Hall of Shame thread, he pretty much viewed women as a lesser class of people who don't know what they want (hint: they really want Mav).
Easily the second most disgusting person we've had on the forums.
#26
Silent Bob
And this case is exactly why people should just shut the hell up during a comedy show. People are there to see the comic; not here opinions from the audience. It ruins the show. It makes the comedian look like an ass. And it makes the heckler look like an ass. Just leave if it's offensive to you. Just leave.[DOUBLEPOST=1342044780][/DOUBLEPOST]
Boy, I hope you're not referring to me as the first because of my views on the subject at hand.
Silent Bob
Thanks bro. That's exactly what I was going for.Well, in this case, you can just attribute, to me, the sentence "the victim probably asked for it".
Mind you, there's three options:
a) She wanted to get heckled in a funny way, and got this instead - dangling a piece of meat in front of a dog, and getting a big bite taken out of your leg when you just wanted to tease the animal and get a little nip -> That's just stupid on your part, even though perhaps the dog needs to be looked at and maybe put down for being too aggressive
b) She REALLY had no idea this guy was an offensive "comedian" who made jokes about offensive themes. In this case, getting up and fighting back is akin to trying to goad an animal into action, not knowing whether this animal is dangerous or not - it's stupid.
c) She came specifically to disrupt the performance. I don't have to explain why this one is bad, right?
Mind you, he crossed the line and was an offensive ass. Saying you'd like to see someone get raped? Not cool. It's not because party X overreacted that party Y is therefore not to blame at all.
Also mind you, I haven't watched the video in question since I'm at work.
And this case is exactly why people should just shut the hell up during a comedy show. People are there to see the comic; not here opinions from the audience. It ruins the show. It makes the comedian look like an ass. And it makes the heckler look like an ass. Just leave if it's offensive to you. Just leave.[DOUBLEPOST=1342044780][/DOUBLEPOST]
I see this thread's going to get locked much sooner than the last Rant thread.
Mav didn't just make that joke, either. As evidenced by a certain Hall of Shame thread, he pretty much viewed women as a lesser class of people who don't know what they want (hint: they really want Mav).
Easily the second most disgusting person we've had on the forums.
Boy, I hope you're not referring to me as the first because of my views on the subject at hand.
#27
Dave
Dave
There are literally hundreds of videos where comics go after hecklers. There's even a documentary about hecklers, called (imaginatively enough) Heckler. As someone who has BEEN heckled, you don't always know what to say right away. Oh, you have some shots and know what you'll say in some situations, but not all. In Tosh's case, he was doing misogynistic jokes and was heckled by a woman, so he went way, way, WAY over the top to humiliate her.
So here's my take - as a stand-up - about the whole thing.
Was she in the wrong? Yes. She should have known Tosh's brand of humor before going to the show. She had to buy a ticket and it's not like he's a road comedian nobody has ever heard of. She knew what she was getting into before she went. Also, when you go to a comedy show, SHUT THE FUCK UP! You don't like what you are hearing? Get up and leave. You want to heckle? Fuck you. You are a selfish and immature pissant who deserves to be stepped on, sometimes cruelly and with great malice.
Was Tosh in the wrong? Damn skippy. Like Michael Richards, he tried to take something negative and turn it into a positive, only to go too far around the bend and loop back into "WTF am I listening to" territory. But instead of owning up to it and stopping himself, he doubled down and went for it, which was a bad fucking idea. Tosh's problem is that his humor is ALL centered around shock and racism/sexism and when heckled he doesn't have much room to wiggle out of it because he's already on the edge of bad taste.
So I agree with everyone here for different reasons. I wouldn't have handled it the way he did but I can see why he did. Of course, I don't make rape jokes in the first place so I wouldn't go there even if prodded.
tl;dr: Tosh is an ass. The heckler is an ass. Nobody is surprised at any of it.
So here's my take - as a stand-up - about the whole thing.
Was she in the wrong? Yes. She should have known Tosh's brand of humor before going to the show. She had to buy a ticket and it's not like he's a road comedian nobody has ever heard of. She knew what she was getting into before she went. Also, when you go to a comedy show, SHUT THE FUCK UP! You don't like what you are hearing? Get up and leave. You want to heckle? Fuck you. You are a selfish and immature pissant who deserves to be stepped on, sometimes cruelly and with great malice.
Was Tosh in the wrong? Damn skippy. Like Michael Richards, he tried to take something negative and turn it into a positive, only to go too far around the bend and loop back into "WTF am I listening to" territory. But instead of owning up to it and stopping himself, he doubled down and went for it, which was a bad fucking idea. Tosh's problem is that his humor is ALL centered around shock and racism/sexism and when heckled he doesn't have much room to wiggle out of it because he's already on the edge of bad taste.
So I agree with everyone here for different reasons. I wouldn't have handled it the way he did but I can see why he did. Of course, I don't make rape jokes in the first place so I wouldn't go there even if prodded.
tl;dr: Tosh is an ass. The heckler is an ass. Nobody is surprised at any of it.
#28
Silent Bob
Silent Bob
#29
Hailey Knight
Who wants to tell the special Halforums version of the tale of Icarus?
Hailey Knight
Nope.Boy, I hope you're not referring to me as the first because of my views on the subject at hand.
Who wants to tell the special Halforums version of the tale of Icarus?
#30
Silent Bob
Silent Bob
Dave, perfectly stated.
#31
Bubble181
Bubble181
He's clearly referring to AmE and her irrational hatred for the TLGB community.Boy, I hope you're not referring to me as the first because of my views on the subject at hand.
#32
Frank
(NOT DEFENDING TOSH BY THE WAY)
Frank
I think the argument is more often: It's comedy, you don't have the right to be not offended by it.It's sad to see how many people are defending him. "It's comedy. You cannot be offended because it is comedy. Period."
(NOT DEFENDING TOSH BY THE WAY)
#33
AshburnerX
- Age is a just a number
- This is modern standard. People used to do this all the time.
- She was very mature for her age.
- Many more.
We saved that thread in the Hall of Shame and it is both hilarious and disturbing.
Trust me. Your not even in the top 10 yet.
AshburnerX
No, we're (probably) talking about Icarus (sp), the guy who admitted to sleeping with a 14 year old when he was 18+ and felt there was nothing wrong with it. Then proceeded to use every pedophile stereotype that exists in his posts to defend himself, including...Boy, I hope you're not referring to me as the first because of my views on the subject at hand.
- Age is a just a number
- This is modern standard. People used to do this all the time.
- She was very mature for her age.
- Many more.
We saved that thread in the Hall of Shame and it is both hilarious and disturbing.
Trust me. Your not even in the top 10 yet.
#34
Hailey Knight
Iaculus is the guy who keeps getting confused for Icarus and I feel bad for him whenever we do that.
Hailey Knight
Icarus is the bad guy.No, we're (probably) talking about Iaculus (sp), the guy who admitted to sleeping with a 14 year old when he was 18+ and felt there was nothing wrong with it. Then proceeded to use every pedophile stereotype that exists in his posts to defend himself, including...
- Age is a just a number
- This is modern standard. People used to do this all the time.
- She was very mature for her age.
- Many more.
We saved that thread in the Hall of Shame and it is both hilarious and disturbing.
Trust me. Your not even in the top 10 yet.
Iaculus is the guy who keeps getting confused for Icarus and I feel bad for him whenever we do that.
#35
AshburnerX
AshburnerX
Yeah, I realized it right after I posted. Sorry IaculusIcarus is the bad guy.
Iaculus is the guy who keeps getting confused for Icarus and I feel bad for him whenever we do that.
#36
GasBandit
GasBandit
I agree, if she didn't find the performance to her liking, she should have left. However, I also think he should have pointed that out to her instead of saying, literally, "Hey, wouldn't it be funny if she got, like, raped by 5 guys right now?"
Er, yeah, what dave said.
Er, yeah, what dave said.
#37
Silent Bob
Actually, from what I read, she made that up. He said something along the lines of "Whoa, it looks like someone got raped by like 5 guys at once..."
Doesn't really excuse it, but it's not quite as harsh.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/10/daniel-tosh-rape-joke-laugh-factory_n_1662882.html
Silent Bob
I agree, if she didn't find the performance to her liking, she should have left. However, I also think he should have pointed that out to her instead of saying, literally, "Hey, wouldn't it be funny if she got, like, raped by 5 guys right now?"
Er, yeah, what dave said.
Actually, from what I read, she made that up. He said something along the lines of "Whoa, it looks like someone got raped by like 5 guys at once..."
Doesn't really excuse it, but it's not quite as harsh.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/10/daniel-tosh-rape-joke-laugh-factory_n_1662882.html
#38
GasBandit
GasBandit
Have you got a link for that?Actually, from what I read, she made that up. He said something along the lines of "Whoa, it looks like someone got raped by like 5 guys at once..."
Doesn't really excuse it, but it's not quite as harsh.
#40
Silent Bob
Silent Bob
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/10/daniel-tosh-rape-joke-laugh-factory_n_1662882.htmlHave you got a link for that?
#41
Tiger Tsang
Tiger Tsang
Is there any audio/video of this? If it went down that way, yeah he definitely slid towards Michael Richards Territory *more from overdoing it, than slipping into the psycho*, but that whole opening paragraph just seemed a bit fishy
“So, on Friday night my friend and I were at her house and wanted to get out and do something for the evening. We brainstormed ideas and she brought up the idea of seeing a show at the Laugh Factory. I’d never been, I thought it sounded fun, so we went. We saw that Dane Cook, along some other names we didn’t recognize we’re playing, and while we both agree that Cook’s style is not really our taste we were opened-minded about what the others had to offer. And we figured even good ol’ Dane can be funny sometimes, even if it’s not really our thing. Anyhoo, his act was actually fine, but then when his was done, some other guy I didn’t recognize took the stage. Of course, I would find out later this was Daniel Tosh, but at the time I thought he was just some yahoo who somehow got a gig going on after Cook. I honestly thought he was an amateur because he didn’t seem that comfortable on stage and seemed to have a really awkward presence. "
“So, on Friday night my friend and I were at her house and wanted to get out and do something for the evening. We brainstormed ideas and she brought up the idea of seeing a show at the Laugh Factory. I’d never been, I thought it sounded fun, so we went. We saw that Dane Cook, along some other names we didn’t recognize we’re playing, and while we both agree that Cook’s style is not really our taste we were opened-minded about what the others had to offer. And we figured even good ol’ Dane can be funny sometimes, even if it’s not really our thing. Anyhoo, his act was actually fine, but then when his was done, some other guy I didn’t recognize took the stage. Of course, I would find out later this was Daniel Tosh, but at the time I thought he was just some yahoo who somehow got a gig going on after Cook. I honestly thought he was an amateur because he didn’t seem that comfortable on stage and seemed to have a really awkward presence. "
#42
GasBandit
"After I called out to him, Tosh paused for a moment. Then, he says, 'Wouldn’t it be funny if that girl got raped by like, 5 guys right now? Like right now? What if a bunch of guys just raped her…' and I, completely stunned and finding it hard to process what was happening but knowing I needed to get out of there, immediately nudged my friend, who was also completely stunned, and we high-tailed it out of there. It was humiliating, of course, especially as the audience guffawed in response to Tosh, their eyes following us as we made our way out of there. I didn’t hear the rest of what he said about me."
And the rebuttal is the club owner saying:
"Daniel came in, and he said, 'Well it sounds like she’s been raped by five guys' — something like that. I really didn’t hear properly."
... that's not very ironclad. "something like that, I really didn't hear properly." It sounds more like a club owner trying to do damage control.
GasBandit
Ok, so the heckler's side is:
"After I called out to him, Tosh paused for a moment. Then, he says, 'Wouldn’t it be funny if that girl got raped by like, 5 guys right now? Like right now? What if a bunch of guys just raped her…' and I, completely stunned and finding it hard to process what was happening but knowing I needed to get out of there, immediately nudged my friend, who was also completely stunned, and we high-tailed it out of there. It was humiliating, of course, especially as the audience guffawed in response to Tosh, their eyes following us as we made our way out of there. I didn’t hear the rest of what he said about me."
And the rebuttal is the club owner saying:
"Daniel came in, and he said, 'Well it sounds like she’s been raped by five guys' — something like that. I really didn’t hear properly."
... that's not very ironclad. "something like that, I really didn't hear properly." It sounds more like a club owner trying to do damage control.
#43
GasBandit
GasBandit
On a completely unrelated note, just look at this douchenozzle.
Doesn't that face just SCREAM "hit me in the face with a tire iron?"
Doesn't that face just SCREAM "hit me in the face with a tire iron?"
#44
ThatNickGuy
ThatNickGuy
It might not be ironclad, but it's paraphrased close enough to the truth, by the sounds of it.And the rebuttal is the club owner saying:
"Daniel came in, and he said, 'Well it sounds like she’s been raped by five guys' — something like that. I really didn’t hear properly."
... that's not very ironclad. "something like that, I really didn't hear properly." It sounds more like a club owner trying to do damage control.
#45
Dave
Dave
Spun the Tosh Talk off into its own thread. Let's keep the rant thread all ranty.
#46
sixpackshaker
sixpackshaker
Fuck it. If he was telling rape jokes, then she had every right to heckle him and say that rape is never funny.
#47
Hailey Knight
Hailey Knight
On the title: this is news?Spun the Tosh Talk off into its own thread. Let's keep the rant thread all ranty.
#48
Jay
I'm huge into the local comedy clubs and go at least once a month to their improv night on Fridays. Every once of a while, the skit bombs.... it happens.... comedians use smaller venues to test out new jokes for their bigger gigs. This is how I knew of some comedians before they hit it big like Russell Peters and Sugar Sammy.
What pisses me off is when pissants start to go "booo" "this sucks!!!" "this subject isn't funny"... it actually angers me and there has been more than once where I went to go see them after the skit and told them a piece of my mind. You don't like it? You and you 10$ can go fuck off. Who the fuck are you to judge someone else. If you don't like it, shut up. Wait for the next skit.
FFS
Hecklers deserves everything they get and more from comedians, they are scum that hide in a crowd of people and ruin it for others because "it's all about them"
Jay
Pretty much this.There are literally hundreds of videos where comics go after hecklers. There's even a documentary about hecklers, called (imaginatively enough) Heckler. As someone who has BEEN heckled, you don't always know what to say right away. Oh, you have some shots and know what you'll say in some situations, but not all. In Tosh's case, he was doing misogynistic jokes and was heckled by a woman, so he went way, way, WAY over the top to humiliate her.
So here's my take - as a stand-up - about the whole thing.
Was she in the wrong? Yes. She should have known Tosh's brand of humor before going to the show. She had to buy a ticket and it's not like he's a road comedian nobody has ever heard of. She knew what she was getting into before she went. Also, when you go to a comedy show, SHUT THE FUCK UP! You don't like what you are hearing? Get up and leave. You want to heckle? Fuck you. You are a selfish and immature pissant who deserves to be stepped on, sometimes cruelly and with great malice.
Was Tosh in the wrong? Damn skippy. Like Michael Richards, he tried to take something negative and turn it into a positive, only to go too far around the bend and loop back into "WTF am I listening to" territory. But instead of owning up to it and stopping himself, he doubled down and went for it, which was a bad fucking idea. Tosh's problem is that his humor is ALL centered around shock and racism/sexism and when heckled he doesn't have much room to wiggle out of it because he's already on the edge of bad taste.
So I agree with everyone here for different reasons. I wouldn't have handled it the way he did but I can see why he did. Of course, I don't make rape jokes in the first place so I wouldn't go there even if prodded.
tl;dr: Tosh is an ass. The heckler is an ass. Nobody is surprised at any of it.
I'm huge into the local comedy clubs and go at least once a month to their improv night on Fridays. Every once of a while, the skit bombs.... it happens.... comedians use smaller venues to test out new jokes for their bigger gigs. This is how I knew of some comedians before they hit it big like Russell Peters and Sugar Sammy.
What pisses me off is when pissants start to go "booo" "this sucks!!!" "this subject isn't funny"... it actually angers me and there has been more than once where I went to go see them after the skit and told them a piece of my mind. You don't like it? You and you 10$ can go fuck off. Who the fuck are you to judge someone else. If you don't like it, shut up. Wait for the next skit.
FFS
Hecklers deserves everything they get and more from comedians, they are scum that hide in a crowd of people and ruin it for others because "it's all about them"
#49
Zappit
Zappit
Really - if you ever watched Tosh's stand-up, you knew it was only a matter of time until this exact thing happened. This whole thing comes as a surprise?
#50
Jay
Jay
Ok, so the heckler's side is:
"After I called out to him, Tosh paused for a moment. Then, he says, 'Wouldn’t it be funny if that girl got raped by like, 5 guys right now? Like right now? What if a bunch of guys just raped her…' and I, completely stunned and finding it hard to process what was happening but knowing I needed to get out of there, immediately nudged my friend, who was also completely stunned, and we high-tailed it out of there. It was humiliating, of course, especially as the audience guffawed in response to Tosh, their eyes following us as we made our way out of there. I didn’t hear the rest of what he said about me."
#51
DarkAudit
DarkAudit
I had the misfortune of catching the rants of one of Tosh's "fans" as retweets by someone else I follow. This particular mouth-breather might actually have done it. Dude was just vile.
#52
Jay
Jay
Personally, I don't like his comedy and here's a newsflash... I don't find most CK Louis acts as funny as other people do. Sure, I might chuckle once in awhile or pop a smile... but it's nothing compared to some other comedians. Different tastes for different people.
On a given impro night I may be entertained by upwards to a dozen comedians, most of whom aren't that great... but I never... despite what you think about me.... ever heckled someone.
So, not only is that woman rude for heckling this guy... but dumb as fuck for doing just that.
On a given impro night I may be entertained by upwards to a dozen comedians, most of whom aren't that great... but I never... despite what you think about me.... ever heckled someone.
So, not only is that woman rude for heckling this guy... but dumb as fuck for doing just that.
#53
PatrThom
PatrThom
I want the headline to be: 0.sh*Tosh, B'Gosh!
--Patrick
--Patrick
#54
SeraRelm
SeraRelm
Yeah.
*avoids thread*
*avoids thread*
#55
blotsfan
blotsfan
I dunno, I haven't seen too many stand up comedians, but I loved when they went at hecklers. I thought that was when they tended to be at their funniest.Pretty much this.
I'm huge into the local comedy clubs and go at least once a month to their improv night on Fridays. Every once of a while, the skit bombs.... it happens.... comedians use smaller venues to test out new jokes for their bigger gigs. This is how I knew of some comedians before they hit it big like Russell Peters and Sugar Sammy.
What pisses me off is when pissants start to go "booo" "this sucks!!!" "this subject isn't funny"... it actually angers me and there has been more than once where I went to go see them after the skit and told them a piece of my mind. You don't like it? You and you 10$ can go fuck off. Who the fuck are you to judge someone else. If you don't like it, shut up. Wait for the next skit.
FFS
Hecklers deserves everything they get and more from comedians, they are scum that hide in a crowd of people and ruin it for others because "it's all about them"
#56
Jay
Jay
I've seen my share of hecklers get torn to shreds... but it usually is tongue in cheek.... sometimes the comedians aren't vets and it screws them up and they have a hard time performing and you can sense a lot of frustration by people in the room who were mutually annoyed by hecklers.
One time a heckler didn't like being torn a new one and started answering back in threats... when 2 300 pound bouncers walked up to him and escorted him by the ruff of his neck he wasn't so brave.
Hecklers could burn in hell for all I care.
From what I read, she didn't like to be the center of attention... if she didn't want to, she shouldn't have been heckling. Or maybe she did, probably an attention whore, she just was too stupid to realize that the comedian was going to tear her a new one, his style.
One time a heckler didn't like being torn a new one and started answering back in threats... when 2 300 pound bouncers walked up to him and escorted him by the ruff of his neck he wasn't so brave.
Hecklers could burn in hell for all I care.
From what I read, she didn't like to be the center of attention... if she didn't want to, she shouldn't have been heckling. Or maybe she did, probably an attention whore, she just was too stupid to realize that the comedian was going to tear her a new one, his style.
#57
Dave
Dave
Worst heckler I ever had? My wife. She was just yelling things from the crowd and I couldn't really fire back so I introduced her and worked it into my act. It actually went really well and was a good set. People thought we'd planned it but we hadn't. After it was over she and I had a chat. She doesn't do that any more.
#58
makare
makare
Lol Icarus was not who I would have guessed you meant.Nope.
Who wants to tell the special Halforums version of the tale of Icarus?
#59
Hailey Knight
Hailey Knight
Wow...Worst heckler I ever had? My wife. She was just yelling things from the crowd and I couldn't really fire back so I introduced her and worked it into my act. It actually went really well and was a good set. People thought we'd planned it but we hadn't. After it was over she and I had a chat. She doesn't do that any more.
#60
Chippy
Chippy
#61
phil
phil
I like Daniel tosh alright.
#62
Frank
Frank
He had every right to make the jokes he did. She had every right to feel the way she did. She had every right to react to his jokes as she did. He had every right to respond to her the way he did. Everyone has every right to feel the way they currently do about the situation.
Freeze Zpeech.
Freeze Zpeech.
#63
makare
not sure if serious
makare
not sure if serious
#64
checkeredhat
checkeredhat
Damn hippy.He had every right to make the jokes he did. She had every right to feel the way she did. She had every right to react to his jokes as she did. He had every right to respond to her the way he did. Everyone has every right to feel the way they currently do about the situation.
Freeze Zpeech.
#65
Silent Bob
Silent Bob
Fuck it. If he was telling rape jokes, then she had every right to heckle him and say that rape is never funny.
#66
strawman
strawman
You know, guys, comedians would have a much easier job if you simply made a list of what they could and couldn't make fun of.
#67
HowDroll
HowDroll
I, for one, do not want to live in a world where comedians have to second-guess everything they say in case they might offend someone. Tosh is an ass for sure -- but that's his job. Like many professional comedians, he's paid a lot of money and has built a career around telling off-color jokes, and when he's on stage society's normal rules about what you can and cannot say don't necessarily apply.
If you're dumb (not to mention rude) enough to heckle during a comedian's -- especially a shock comedian like Tosh's -- performance, sorry, but it's open season on you. Like a few others have said, if she didn't like his material, she should have left; people leaving the club/theater in droves and a bunch of empty seats would send a stronger message anyway. I personally don't find what Tosh said to her funny, but I also don't feel a bit sorry for her for getting her shit slapped down.
If you're dumb (not to mention rude) enough to heckle during a comedian's -- especially a shock comedian like Tosh's -- performance, sorry, but it's open season on you. Like a few others have said, if she didn't like his material, she should have left; people leaving the club/theater in droves and a bunch of empty seats would send a stronger message anyway. I personally don't find what Tosh said to her funny, but I also don't feel a bit sorry for her for getting her shit slapped down.
#68
Jay
Jay
^ This is one cool lady IMO. ^
#69
blotsfan
blotsfan
Shame on you Silent Bob for not posting this.
#70
blotsfan
blotsfan
My b. Missed the first post of his videos. Carry on with me being dumb.
#71
GasBandit
GasBandit
I'm not saying we have to set down laws, or even ground rules, of what a comedian can and can't say. Being funny is all about intuition and knowing what to say and when. That means a comedian can still be called on saying the wrong thing at the wrong time. Yes, the lady should just have left... but Tosh said the wrong thing at the wrong time. Very wrong on both accounts.
#72
Chippy
Chippy
There are probably a lot better ways an experienced comedian should deal with a rude heckler than "lol you should get raped"
#73
Charlie Don't Surf
Charlie Don't Surf
There's making a joke and giving a heckler insults, which I have no problem with at all! Then there's what Tosh did, which was intimidate and use his position to frighten someone with the threat of sexual violence. That's not okay, no matter where you're standing.
I also really hate hecklers, but as much as I hate agreeing with Gasbandit, this was way the fuck over the line.
I also really hate hecklers, but as much as I hate agreeing with Gasbandit, this was way the fuck over the line.
#74
HowDroll
HowDroll
use his position to frighten someone with the threat of sexual violence.
Doesn't sound like a threat to me.“Wouldn’t it be funny if that girl got raped by like, 5 guys right now? Like right now? What if a bunch of guys just raped her…”
#75
Dave
Dave
“Wouldn’t it be funny if that Obama got shot by like, 5 guys right now? Like right now? What if a bunch of guys just shot him…”
Let's see if the Secret Service would think this is not a threat.
At the very least it's inciting violence.
Let's see if the Secret Service would think this is not a threat.
At the very least it's inciting violence.
#76
Bubble181
Bubble181
Difference between "free speech (even if you're an idiot)" in the open, and "interrupting a paid performance". It'sn ot "free speech" to talk during a movie or spoil the plot, for example - that's just asshattishness. Same for the heckler (even though there, as well, the response was too strong). If the heckler had gone back home and made a very angry and bitter blogpost about Tosh being a tosser, it'd be quite something different from interrupting a performance and drawing the attention for....well, I don't know why.She asked for it, just like the heckler...
#77
sixpackshaker
sixpackshaker
So the threat of gang rape is justified for letting a comedian know he's crossing the line.Difference between "free speech (even if you're an idiot)" in the open, and "interrupting a paid performance". It'sn ot "free speech" to talk during a movie or spoil the plot, for example - that's just asshattishness. Same for the heckler (even though there, as well, the response was too strong). If the heckler had gone back home and made a very angry and bitter blogpost about Tosh being a tosser, it'd be quite something different from interrupting a performance and drawing the attention for....well, I don't know why.
#78
Dave
Dave
We're saying (at least what I've read) is that the heckler asked for it but got hit with a nuclear bomb of idiocy instead of the level she should have gotten. The fact that she was wrong does not absolve Tosh of his being super wrong as well.So the threat of gang rape is justified for letting a comedian know he's crossing the line.
#79
Bubble181
Bubble181
...Look, I'm not feeling too great right now, and last time someone told me I was a rape apologist that thread was locked a day later. Let's not go there. Nice try, though.So the threat of gang rape is justified for letting a comedian know he's crossing the line.
#80
Jay
Jay
Was Obama heckling as well?
#81
Charlie Don't Surf
Charlie Don't Surf
I don't think it would have gotten to the point where someone in the crowd heard that and grabbed her and held her down, etc, but it's certainly threatening.
#82
HowDroll
HowDroll
"Someone go rape that bitch to shut her up" is threatening. Saying it would be amusing if she got raped is not threatening. It's certainly not funny, but I think it goes a little far to claim that he was trying to incite the crowd to any sort of violence.I don't think it would have gotten to the point where someone in the crowd heard that and grabbed her and held her down, etc, but it's certainly threatening.
#83
Jay
Jay
The guy was basically saying, "what if the worst thing happened to this douche-bag who's heckling me... like... right now?"
Is it funny? Not really. Was it ballsy? Hells yeah.
In the end... it worked... the bitch shut the fuck up and got the fuck out.
Is it funny? Not really. Was it ballsy? Hells yeah.
In the end... it worked... the bitch shut the fuck up and got the fuck out.
#84
Bones
Bones
no, no it isn't, but I have a sense that neither side is telling the whole truth of what really happened. This reminds me of Mr. Zimmerman in Florida, The argument that keeps coming back is that a fight was started and someone terrible came of it. What I am trying to say is that if you pick a fight with another person, how much right do you have to complain about the repercussions? with Zimmerman, the point I am trying to make is that he allegedly started a course of action that ended with him shooting someone to death. These are two drastically different scenarios both completely unfortunate. There is a defined level of guilt via interaction, neither side made a good choice, and something bad came of it. However, Tosh's threat, I believe, is without teeth. What he said was wrong, and lacking tact. He should have come up with a better response, I am sure he is going to take a lot of heat for this, and in 2 weeks time no one will talk about it, because there will be a new scandal to bitch about.So the threat of gang rape is justified for letting a comedian know he's crossing the line.
#85
strawman
strawman
If he had said, "too bad the waiter didn't poison your drink" then it wouldn't be a topic of discussion at all.
Obviously people think gang-rape is worse than murder by an order of magnitude.
I'd love to see a video, because at this point we don't know exactly what she said to heckle him. She may have said something lighthearted to get a rise out of him, and perhaps him going for the nuclear option just to get rid of her was over the top. Alternately she stood up and was making a stand trying to get him off the stage and said something in a way that suggested she wasn't going to back down. In that case he might have only had the option of engaging her verbally for a long time, ruining his set, or saying the worst thing he could wrap his tiny brain around fast enough in order to throw her off balance, making leaving the only option.
Regardless, it was mere verbal sparring, and if she didn't want to get knocked off her horse, or if she didn't want him to use the R word then she should have made a legally enforceable contract with him prior to baiting him.
They are both idiots, and when she lost she took it to the interblogs to try and get the last laugh, and honestly I'd say she won, so it was a successful tactic. She's feeling vindicated, having more publicly stuck it to him, and he's rolling his eyes at her hollow victory. Is he going to change in response to this event? No. Is she going to become more aware of what she's getting herself into? No.
But who cares? Are we trying to suss out some sort of universal human truth by continuing to argue about what two strangers said to each other in a public setting? Let me know when you've cracked that nugget of truth and rephrased it so it'll fit on a bumper sticker.
Go ahead and be offended, if you want, at something two strangers said thousands of miles away and dozens of hours ago. It's your day to spend however you like, and if you want to spend it feeling hatred and unhappiness then knock yourself out.
Obviously people think gang-rape is worse than murder by an order of magnitude.
I'd love to see a video, because at this point we don't know exactly what she said to heckle him. She may have said something lighthearted to get a rise out of him, and perhaps him going for the nuclear option just to get rid of her was over the top. Alternately she stood up and was making a stand trying to get him off the stage and said something in a way that suggested she wasn't going to back down. In that case he might have only had the option of engaging her verbally for a long time, ruining his set, or saying the worst thing he could wrap his tiny brain around fast enough in order to throw her off balance, making leaving the only option.
Regardless, it was mere verbal sparring, and if she didn't want to get knocked off her horse, or if she didn't want him to use the R word then she should have made a legally enforceable contract with him prior to baiting him.
They are both idiots, and when she lost she took it to the interblogs to try and get the last laugh, and honestly I'd say she won, so it was a successful tactic. She's feeling vindicated, having more publicly stuck it to him, and he's rolling his eyes at her hollow victory. Is he going to change in response to this event? No. Is she going to become more aware of what she's getting herself into? No.
But who cares? Are we trying to suss out some sort of universal human truth by continuing to argue about what two strangers said to each other in a public setting? Let me know when you've cracked that nugget of truth and rephrased it so it'll fit on a bumper sticker.
Go ahead and be offended, if you want, at something two strangers said thousands of miles away and dozens of hours ago. It's your day to spend however you like, and if you want to spend it feeling hatred and unhappiness then knock yourself out.
#86
GasBandit
"The hell is wrong with you people? Every (comic) that gets (heckled) is not (Dave Chappelle)! Yes, (hecklers) conspire to (ruin the acts) of a lot of (innocent stand up comedians), but (Daniel Tosh) is not one of those men! We all know (the honkey gets laughs), but what happened to standards? What happened to bare minimums? Are you a fan of (Daniel Tosh)? You wanna help (Daniel Tosh)? Then get some (common sense advice) for (Daniel Tosh)! But don't pretend that the man is a hero. And stop the damn (rape apologism)! Act like you got some goddamn sense, people! Damn! Tired of playin' round here."
GasBandit
"The hell is wrong with you people? Every (comic) that gets (heckled) is not (Dave Chappelle)! Yes, (hecklers) conspire to (ruin the acts) of a lot of (innocent stand up comedians), but (Daniel Tosh) is not one of those men! We all know (the honkey gets laughs), but what happened to standards? What happened to bare minimums? Are you a fan of (Daniel Tosh)? You wanna help (Daniel Tosh)? Then get some (common sense advice) for (Daniel Tosh)! But don't pretend that the man is a hero. And stop the damn (rape apologism)! Act like you got some goddamn sense, people! Damn! Tired of playin' round here."
#87
sixpackshaker
sixpackshaker
Rape is worse than murder by an order of magnitude. The victim of murder does not have to life with the shame of the event for the rest of his life.Obviously people think gang-rape is worse than murder by an order of magnitude.
#88
strawman
strawman
If that were true then the penalties for rape would be worse than the penalties for murder. Society may say that rape is worse, but it's plainly obvious that it's not, or that society isn't willing to back up its words with actions.Rape is worse than murder by an order of magnitude. The victim of murder does not have to life with the shame of the event for the rest of his life.
#89
HowDroll
HowDroll
Didn't we just have this thread?Rape is worse than murder by an order of magnitude. The victim of murder does not have to life with the shame of the event for the rest of his life.
#90
Tress
Tress
Can we all just agree that rape is a really bad thing and not have this bizarro fight?
#91
Chippy
Should she of said anything? No. Is Heckling rude and annoying? God yes. But let's not pretend Tosh is some edgy mother fucker for saying "lol get raped."
Chippy
I don't see anything ballsy about an already established comedian, who has a pretty large fanbase that will support him due to Tosh.0 and previous stand up, telling a heckler they should be raped.The guy was basically saying, "what if the worst thing happened to this douche-bag who's heckling me... like... right now?"
Is it funny? Not really. Was it ballsy? Hells yeah.
In the end... it worked... the bitch shut the fuck up and got the fuck out.
Should she of said anything? No. Is Heckling rude and annoying? God yes. But let's not pretend Tosh is some edgy mother fucker for saying "lol get raped."
#92
HowDroll
HowDroll
#93
sixpackshaker
State
University.
Our society has many failings.
Also Murder is easier to prosecute. There's a body. Rape is damn hard to even prove that it happened.
sixpackshaker
PennIf that were true then the penalties for rape would be worse than the penalties for murder. Society may say that rape is worse, but it's plainly obvious that it's not, or that society isn't willing to back up its words with actions.
State
University.
Our society has many failings.
Also Murder is easier to prosecute. There's a body. Rape is damn hard to even prove that it happened.
#94
Dave
Dave
I think the biggest issue here is that is seems that lately people are thinking that it's okay to threaten women (and men as well) with rape. It's something that has been growing exponentially in online gaming - especially consoles - and it just seems that it's been bleeding into the consciousness of society more and more. Rape jokes wouldn't have been stood for only a few short years ago outside of shock comedy and even there it was frowned on. But now it seems that with /b/ and x-box live and places like that it's become acceptable to equate rape with defeating or humiliating someone.
I'm not sure what I'm trying to say other than, "Back in MY day....!" but it just seems to me that we're going to be having this discussion more and more as it becomes more utilized in the lexicon of society for whatever purpose.
I'm not sure what I'm trying to say other than, "Back in MY day....!" but it just seems to me that we're going to be having this discussion more and more as it becomes more utilized in the lexicon of society for whatever purpose.
#95
strawman
Some people here a trying to state that since rape is so bad - which we all agree with - then, taken to the logical extreme, even joking about rape is so bad, and thus under no circumstance should or could a reasonable person think that the comedian was "right".
No one is arguing about the relative badness of rape. But some are trying to use the badness of rape as a lever to say that it can never, ever be invoked in humorous conversation. It should instead be given dignified weight and due reverence.
It would be akin to saying that comedians should never take the name of god in vain, or use that subject matter lightly.
It might be offensive.
strawman
The problem is that rape didn't occur, the threat of rape didn't occur. So now we're stuck with trying to argue about whether a comedian was "right" or not to make a "joke" directed at an unruly member of the audience.Can we all just agree that rape is a really bad thing and not have this bizarro fight?
Some people here a trying to state that since rape is so bad - which we all agree with - then, taken to the logical extreme, even joking about rape is so bad, and thus under no circumstance should or could a reasonable person think that the comedian was "right".
No one is arguing about the relative badness of rape. But some are trying to use the badness of rape as a lever to say that it can never, ever be invoked in humorous conversation. It should instead be given dignified weight and due reverence.
It would be akin to saying that comedians should never take the name of god in vain, or use that subject matter lightly.
It might be offensive.
#96
FBI
FBI
ಠ_ಠ“Wouldn’t it be funny if that Obama got shot by like, 5 guys right now? Like right now? What if a bunch of guys just shot him…”
Let's see if the Secret Service would think this is not a threat.
At the very least it's inciting violence.
#97
Jay
Jay
Tried to logically reply to this... then IRape is worse than murder by an order of magnitude. The victim of murder does not have to life with the shame of the event for the rest of his life.
#98
Bubble181
Making a joke about rape is one thing. Telling someone you hopethey get raped is another.
Q: "What's pink and turns red at the press of a button?"
A: "A baby in a blender"
is a joke.
Q: "I hope your baby gets killed by a mass-murderer in a horrific way, because you deserve it, you bitch"
A: "..."
is not a joke, it's being rude and offensive for the sake of being rude and offensive.
I have the feeling that the youth of today (oh god I'm turning into Dave) is more and more confusing these two. "Being offensive" has become funny in its own right; offending people has bercome the goal. That's not the point of joking about a taboo subject.
Bubble181
Hmm, for me anyway, that's yet another discussion. I think it's perfectly possible and OK to make jokes about the subject of rape; even very shocking/graphic/whatever jokes (though possibly with a bit of warning - though if Tosh is all that well-known his name is warning enough, I guess). But it's not because it's a topic you can joke about and that's a bit edgy, that anything you say about it is always funny or appropriate.The problem is that rape didn't occur, the threat of rape didn't occur. So now we're stuck with trying to argue about whether a comedian was "right" or not to make a "joke" directed at an unruly member of the audience.
Some people here a trying to state that since rape is so bad - which we all agree with - then, taken to the logical extreme, even joking about rape is so bad, and thus under no circumstance should or could a reasonable person think that the comedian was "right".
No one is arguing about the relative badness of rape. But some are trying to use the badness of rape as a lever to say that it can never, ever be invoked in humorous conversation. It should instead be given dignified weight and due reverence.
It would be akin to saying that comedians should never take the name of god in vain, or use that subject matter lightly.
It might be offensive.
Making a joke about rape is one thing. Telling someone you hopethey get raped is another.
Q: "What's pink and turns red at the press of a button?"
A: "A baby in a blender"
is a joke.
Q: "I hope your baby gets killed by a mass-murderer in a horrific way, because you deserve it, you bitch"
A: "..."
is not a joke, it's being rude and offensive for the sake of being rude and offensive.
I have the feeling that the youth of today (oh god I'm turning into Dave) is more and more confusing these two. "Being offensive" has become funny in its own right; offending people has bercome the goal. That's not the point of joking about a taboo subject.
#99
Charlie Don't Surf
Charlie Don't Surf
The answer is "rape culture" and patriarchy and male privilege.
#100
strawman
I mean you're really going out on a limb asserting that rape is worse than death. It seems to me that society would say there's no possibility of happiness after death, while there is not just the possibility of, but the likelihood of happiness after rape. If this were not true then the majority of rape victims would be committing suicide, rather than tiny percentage of suicides that occur after rape now.
And yet you insist that taking someone's life is better for the victim than sexual violence. I just don't understand your point of view, so I'm hoping you can expand on why death is better than sexual violence?
strawman
So you are either saying that murderers should receive sentences of five years or less, or that rapists should receive life sentences or death penalty?Our society has many failings.
I mean you're really going out on a limb asserting that rape is worse than death. It seems to me that society would say there's no possibility of happiness after death, while there is not just the possibility of, but the likelihood of happiness after rape. If this were not true then the majority of rape victims would be committing suicide, rather than tiny percentage of suicides that occur after rape now.
And yet you insist that taking someone's life is better for the victim than sexual violence. I just don't understand your point of view, so I'm hoping you can expand on why death is better than sexual violence?
#101
sixpackshaker
sixpackshaker
oh my god! not a .gif!
#102
HowDroll
HowDroll
RAPE APOLOGIST!Hmm, for me anyway, that's yet another discussion. I think it's perfectly possible and OK to make jokes about the subject of rape; even very shocking/graphic/whatever jokes (though possibly with a bit of warning - though if Tosh is all that well-known his name is warning enough, I guess). But it's not because it's a topic you can joke about and that's a bit edgy, that anything you say about it is always funny or appropriate.
Making a joke about rape is one thing. Telling someone you hopethey get raped is another.
Q: "What's pink and turns red at the press of a button?"
A: "A baby in a blender"
is a joke.
Q: "I hope your baby gets killed by a mass-murderer in a horrific way, because you deserve it, you bitch"
A: "..."
is not a joke, it's being rude and offensive for the sake of being rude and offensive.
I have the feeling that the youth of today (oh god I'm turning into Dave) is more and more confusing these two. "Being offensive" has become funny in its own right; offending people has bercome the goal. That's not the point of joking about a taboo subject.
#103
Bubble181
then go and have a beer together
Bubble181
I hope you meet BananaHands in a dark alley when you're all alone.RAPE APOLOGIST!
then go and have a beer together
#104
strawman
I'm not surprised it was you who invoked it.
This is like the Godwin of sexual violence threads.
strawman
I'm honestly surprised it took three pages to invoke "rape culture"The answer is "rape culture" and patriarchy and male privilege.
I'm not surprised it was you who invoked it.
This is like the Godwin of sexual violence threads.
#105
Jay
Jay
I want to meet BananaHands in a dark alley alone as well.
#106
strawman
strawman
I hope he brings fresh banana hands. The black squishy ones are only good for banana bread, and while I love banana bread it's really too time consuming.I hope you meet BananaHands in a dark alley when you're all alone.
then go and have a beer together
#107
HowDroll
HowDroll
Don't threaten meI hope you meet BananaHands in a dark alley when you're all alone.
then go and have a beer together
with a good time.
#108
Bubble181
Bubble181
That's not a threat. THIS is a threat:Don't threaten me
with a good time.
#109
Charlie Don't Surf
Charlie Don't Surf
I'm not sure what's bad about bringing up rape culture in a thread about how it's reinforced and shown by Tosh's actions???
#110
phil
Wouldn't it be funny if like, a plane crashed on you for that like right now? Oh man I'm totally encuraging people to 9-11 you. Im a monster. There is no other explination.
phil
Hey, you said rape and then didn't say "is the worst thing in the world ever" which is the only thing, legally, you can say after the word rape (which is the worst thing ever in the world). Way to apologize also rape culture which is the worst thing to ever happen ever.RAPE APOLOGIST!
Wouldn't it be funny if like, a plane crashed on you for that like right now? Oh man I'm totally encuraging people to 9-11 you. Im a monster. There is no other explination.
#111
GasBandit
GasBandit
There is a manifest difference difference between George Carlin joking about "Did you ever try to get somebody out of leather pants that didn't want them to come off?" and targeting someone to plant the image of their own violent sexual assault in their mind and the mind of everyone in the room.
Litmus test? Tell me how funny you find the following phrase?
"Wouldn't it be funny if 5 guys beat and raped your daughter/neice/sister/wife on her way home from school today?"
Wouldn't that just be hilarious? Wouldn't their shattered life, defiled body, broken soul just be slap-on-the-knee, poke-out-your-eye, kick-in-the-crotch hilarious? Wouldn't you love to be there like Nelson on the simpsons to point your finger and give the high pitched laugh when she screams out for help and nobody listens? At the health problems from the savage beating and kicking, the pooling blood, the specter of disease that might not be caught on a test for years? Shouldn't they just make a sitcom called "8 simple rules for raping my teenage daughter?" Isn't the stigma that never goes away just a never-ending source of amusement? Cause the concept of emotional damage, self-loathing, and fear that will rule her for the rest of her life, you'll just love to chuckle about that for years, won't you, daddy?
Litmus test? Tell me how funny you find the following phrase?
"Wouldn't it be funny if 5 guys beat and raped your daughter/neice/sister/wife on her way home from school today?"
Wouldn't that just be hilarious? Wouldn't their shattered life, defiled body, broken soul just be slap-on-the-knee, poke-out-your-eye, kick-in-the-crotch hilarious? Wouldn't you love to be there like Nelson on the simpsons to point your finger and give the high pitched laugh when she screams out for help and nobody listens? At the health problems from the savage beating and kicking, the pooling blood, the specter of disease that might not be caught on a test for years? Shouldn't they just make a sitcom called "8 simple rules for raping my teenage daughter?" Isn't the stigma that never goes away just a never-ending source of amusement? Cause the concept of emotional damage, self-loathing, and fear that will rule her for the rest of her life, you'll just love to chuckle about that for years, won't you, daddy?
#112
strawman
To some degree it's a bit like sarcasm. Some people will never find it funny, and can't possibly understand why others would find it funny.
But the reality is that people view things from fundamentally different perspectives. Something that would offend me might not offend you. If you don't find it offensive, you might find it funny because you know me to some degree, and therefore it becomes an inside joke.
Well known inside jokes that are offensive to some might include racist jokes like certain ethnicities/races preferring fried chicken, or other ethnicities/races being known as penny pinchers.
So then the question is not whether being offensive is the objective and thus the "bad" type of comedy, but whether the intended audience accepts it as a joke at the expense of those that would become offended.
If we got rid of all the jokes in the world which can only occur at the expense of another human, I think we'd eliminate most jokes. It's often when we identify our own foibles and poke fun at them that some humor occurs. I particularly enjoy self deprecating comedians, but that doesn't mean I don't laugh at the jokes at the expense of law enforcement, TSA workers, and programmers.
It's not funny that he suggested rape as the answer to her heckling.
It's funny that with one single sequence of words he was able to completely shut her down and get her to high tail it out of there.
He didn't threaten her. He didn't punch her. He didn't do anything but use his words.
And people laughed not because they were all imagining her getting raped. They laughed because she started a fight and lost so completely that she fled. She didn't flee in fear, she fled due to complete humiliation.
And once she found a safe spot away from him behind the Internet and the specter of rape culture, she renewed her attack and said he was a bad comedian for humiliating her so badly she couldn't keep her resolve and she fled with her tail between her legs.
She's not trying to stop rape culture, she's trying to get back at the guy that humiliated her in front of a few hundred people so badly that they laughed at her on the way out the door.
strawman
You make a compelling point, but it turns out that to some people that's funny. That is merely another type of humor for them. Off-ending people. They believe its funny to annoy and upset others. To tip and trip them up, make them feel uncomfortable, and cause them to question their assumptions and beliefs.offending people has bercome the goal.
To some degree it's a bit like sarcasm. Some people will never find it funny, and can't possibly understand why others would find it funny.
But the reality is that people view things from fundamentally different perspectives. Something that would offend me might not offend you. If you don't find it offensive, you might find it funny because you know me to some degree, and therefore it becomes an inside joke.
Well known inside jokes that are offensive to some might include racist jokes like certain ethnicities/races preferring fried chicken, or other ethnicities/races being known as penny pinchers.
So then the question is not whether being offensive is the objective and thus the "bad" type of comedy, but whether the intended audience accepts it as a joke at the expense of those that would become offended.
If we got rid of all the jokes in the world which can only occur at the expense of another human, I think we'd eliminate most jokes. It's often when we identify our own foibles and poke fun at them that some humor occurs. I particularly enjoy self deprecating comedians, but that doesn't mean I don't laugh at the jokes at the expense of law enforcement, TSA workers, and programmers.
It's not funny that he suggested rape as the answer to her heckling.
It's funny that with one single sequence of words he was able to completely shut her down and get her to high tail it out of there.
He didn't threaten her. He didn't punch her. He didn't do anything but use his words.
And people laughed not because they were all imagining her getting raped. They laughed because she started a fight and lost so completely that she fled. She didn't flee in fear, she fled due to complete humiliation.
And once she found a safe spot away from him behind the Internet and the specter of rape culture, she renewed her attack and said he was a bad comedian for humiliating her so badly she couldn't keep her resolve and she fled with her tail between her legs.
She's not trying to stop rape culture, she's trying to get back at the guy that humiliated her in front of a few hundred people so badly that they laughed at her on the way out the door.
#113
Charlie Don't Surf
Charlie Don't Surf
Come on man. Don't be obtuse. You know this is different than saying that on a stage in a position of power with a group of (likely men) laughing along with the "joke".Wouldn't it be funny if like, a plane crashed on you for that like right now? Oh man I'm totally encuraging people to 9-11 you. Im a monster. There is no other explination.
#114
HowDroll
HowDroll
I'm not going to even bother reply with what I was about to say because you nailed it. Nobody in this thread is laughing about rape. Seriously. Words only have as much power to hurt you as you allow them to have.text
#115
Bubble181
Hmm, yes, but there are big differences there. I'm not saying you're not right or anything, I'm trying to explain where the difference is, for me. And, for the record, it's not because I think rape "is just offensive and not funny" while racism is "funny and people need to lighten up". I'm not talking about personal things....
My point is more: if it was a black woman, and Tosh had told her "oh, go back to the chains and go pick some cotton for me, you half-ape", that wouldn't have been especially funny, either. A similar joke with people you know may be appropriate (yo nigga, want some more chicken wings? hurr hurr), and may still offend some bystander, of course, but that's not the offense I mean.
See, the humour here is a bit what you said yourself: this is funny because she's humiliated. That's humour at the level of bullying and thinking it's funny to hang the nerd up the flagpole by his underwear. That's not humour, that's humiliating/degrading someone. A comedian whose schtick it is to bully and humiliate people isn't a very good comedian. He's an ass, and a bully.
Bubble181
You make a compelling point, but it turns out that to some people that's funny. That is merely another type of humor for them. Off-ending people. They believe its funny to annoy and upset others. To tip and trip them up, make them feel uncomfortable, and cause them to question their assumptions and beliefs.
To some degree it's a bit like sarcasm. Some people will never find it funny, and can't possibly understand why others would find it funny.
But the reality is that people view things from fundamentally different perspectives. Something that would offend me might not offend you. If you don't find it offensive, you might find it funny because you know me to some degree, and therefore it becomes an inside joke.
Well known inside jokes that are offensive to some might include racist jokes like certain ethnicities/races preferring fried chicken, or other ethnicities/races being known as penny pinchers.
So then the question is not whether being offensive is the objective and thus the "bad" type of comedy, but whether the intended audience accepts it as a joke at the expense of those that would become offended.
If we got rid of all the jokes in the world which can only occur at the expense of another human, I think we'd eliminate most jokes. It's often when we identify our own foibles and poke fun at them that some humor occurs. I particularly enjoy self deprecating comedians, but that doesn't mean I don't laugh at the jokes at the expense of law enforcement, TSA workers, and programmers.
It's not funny that he suggested rape as the answer to her heckling.
It's funny that with one single sequence of words he was able to completely shut her down and get her to high tail it out of there.
He didn't threaten her. He didn't punch her. He didn't do anything but use his words.
And people laughed not because they were all imagining her getting raped. They laughed because she started a fight and lost so completely that she fled. She didn't flee in fear, she fled due to complete humiliation.
And once she found a safe spot away from him behind the Internet and the specter of rape culture, she renewed her attack and said he was a bad comedian for humiliating her so badly she couldn't keep her resolve and she fled with her tail between her legs.
She's not trying to stop rape culture, she's trying to get back at the guy that humiliated her in front of a few hundred people so badly that they laughed at her on the way out the door.
Hmm, yes, but there are big differences there. I'm not saying you're not right or anything, I'm trying to explain where the difference is, for me. And, for the record, it's not because I think rape "is just offensive and not funny" while racism is "funny and people need to lighten up". I'm not talking about personal things....
My point is more: if it was a black woman, and Tosh had told her "oh, go back to the chains and go pick some cotton for me, you half-ape", that wouldn't have been especially funny, either. A similar joke with people you know may be appropriate (yo nigga, want some more chicken wings? hurr hurr), and may still offend some bystander, of course, but that's not the offense I mean.
See, the humour here is a bit what you said yourself: this is funny because she's humiliated. That's humour at the level of bullying and thinking it's funny to hang the nerd up the flagpole by his underwear. That's not humour, that's humiliating/degrading someone. A comedian whose schtick it is to bully and humiliate people isn't a very good comedian. He's an ass, and a bully.
#116
GasBandit
GasBandit
And so by that logic, anyone can say anything to you they want, and not only can they not be held accountable, but you don't even have the right to have an emotional response?I'm not going to even bother reply with what I was about to say because you nailed it. Nobody in this thread is laughing about rape. Seriously. Words only have as much power to hurt you as you allow them to have.
#117
Jay
Is this the best you can come up with?
The hell, I'm getting the Gas Light type of content here today.
Booooo
Jay
Really?And so by that logic, anyone can say anything to you they want, and not only can they not be held accountable, but you don't even have the right to have an emotional response?
Is this the best you can come up with?
The hell, I'm getting the Gas Light type of content here today.
Booooo
#118
Jax
Jax
How about "Wouldn't it be funny if Tosh got raped by 5 huge guys? Like right when everyone thinks this whole thing has blown over?"
#119
GasBandit
GasBandit
I'm not trying to attack her, I'm following the thread of her logic to illustrate it's absurdity. Everybody knows I'm perfectly capable of using words to hurt people, I don't have to flex elocutive nuts every single post.Really?
Is this the best you can come up with?
The hell, I'm getting the Gas Light type of content here today.
Booooo
#120
strawman
Does it really matter exactly what hurt he used to reassert his control over the stage?
When you are being paid to do a 30 minute job, and someone comes on site and disrupts your work do you let them eat up 20 minutes of your job throwing small barbs around, or do you shut them down immediately by choosing your most effective weapon and using it first?
Yes, she singled herself out, and attempted to wrest control of the audience away from him. He intentionally hurt her in order to complete his job of delivering his comedy to the audience who is paying to see him, not her. He used a very volatile subject in order to shut her down. If it were a man standing up he would have chosen a different weapon, so we know he customized it for her in at least some small way. It worked, and he was able to get back to business immediately rather than diddling around with her.
strawman
She singled herself out and invited him to hurt her. He had a lot of options and chose one that he felt would hurt her. That was the whole point of him responding to her heckling. "this is my show. I'm in control. I am shutting you down and making sure I stay in control"But you can sometimes know very well which words will hurt another person. Just because you know this logically doesn't mean you wouldn't be hurt if people started calling you ___.
Does it really matter exactly what hurt he used to reassert his control over the stage?
When you are being paid to do a 30 minute job, and someone comes on site and disrupts your work do you let them eat up 20 minutes of your job throwing small barbs around, or do you shut them down immediately by choosing your most effective weapon and using it first?
Yes, she singled herself out, and attempted to wrest control of the audience away from him. He intentionally hurt her in order to complete his job of delivering his comedy to the audience who is paying to see him, not her. He used a very volatile subject in order to shut her down. If it were a man standing up he would have chosen a different weapon, so we know he customized it for her in at least some small way. It worked, and he was able to get back to business immediately rather than diddling around with her.
#121
Jay
Jay
I'm not here to be served sloppy lazy as fuck Gasbandit posts, you should be ashamed of yourself and your third rate ranting today.I'm not trying to attack her, I'm following the thread of her logic to illustrate it's absurdity. Everybody knows I'm perfectly capable of using words to hurt people, I don't have to flex elocutive nuts every single post.
#122
GasBandit
GasBandit
Surely you are not asserting that the ends always justifies the means, regardless of disproportionate response.Does it really matter exactly what hurt he used to reassert his control over the stage?
#123
strawman
strawman
If that's bullying, then we should simply pull out the standard answer, "Yes, but she started it"
You don't pick a fight you aren't prepared to follow through on.
You don't pick a fight you aren't prepared to follow through on.
#124
sixpackshaker
sixpackshaker
HE WAS ASKING THE AUDIENCE FOR INPUT!
Some guy suggested rape as the theme for upcoming bit, the woman said it is not funny. Then Tosh threatened her.
Some guy suggested rape as the theme for upcoming bit, the woman said it is not funny. Then Tosh threatened her.
#125
Charlie Don't Surf
Charlie Don't Surf
this is complete bullshitWords only have as much power to hurt you as you allow them to have.
#126
GasBandit
GasBandit
I'm not here to be served sloppy lazy as fuck Gasbandit posts, you should be ashamed of yourself and your third rate ranting today.
#127
strawman
Who is right?
strawman
No, but I wasn't about to write a treatise on the subject either. Yes, there are shades of gray. Some are saying that this is too dark, and others are saying that it's lighter than it seems.Surely you are not asserting that the ends always justifies the means, regardless of disproportionate response.
Who is right?
#129
HowDroll
HowDroll
I've had way, way worse things said to me in my life than "Wouldn't it be funny if five guys raped you?" When I was in junior high and the first part of high school, I had literally no friends and was bullied almost to the point where I committed suicide -- and we're talking shit I could have gotten kids arrested for, if I wasn't so afraid of further physical retaliation -- and then I spent five years with a guy who made the list of epithets even longer. I get it. And that's why I can say now -- after overcoming all that shit and building up my self-esteem from zero -- words only have as much power to hurt you as you allow them to have. It's really that easy.
If someone walked up to me in the street and called me a fatass or a slut or told me they hope I get raped, I'm not saying it would have no effect on me or that it wouldn't mess up my day, but I'm at a point in my life now where I'd think "wow, that person is a fucking asshole" and move on instead of internalizing it and letting it devastate me -- and I'm way happier for that mindset. Tosh is an an ass, as the thread title says, but he's made a living out of being an ass. If he had picked her out randomly and said "hey, see that woman back there? Wow, I hope she gets raped," I'd probably have a different reaction to this thread, but he didn't. She wanted the spotlight on her when she decided to yell at him in the middle of his show, and she got more than she bargained for. Sucks for her that she was completely humiliated, and I'm not saying that Tosh wasn't a complete dick to her in how he handled it, but context is everything. She's not a victim here.
If someone walked up to me in the street and called me a fatass or a slut or told me they hope I get raped, I'm not saying it would have no effect on me or that it wouldn't mess up my day, but I'm at a point in my life now where I'd think "wow, that person is a fucking asshole" and move on instead of internalizing it and letting it devastate me -- and I'm way happier for that mindset. Tosh is an an ass, as the thread title says, but he's made a living out of being an ass. If he had picked her out randomly and said "hey, see that woman back there? Wow, I hope she gets raped," I'd probably have a different reaction to this thread, but he didn't. She wanted the spotlight on her when she decided to yell at him in the middle of his show, and she got more than she bargained for. Sucks for her that she was completely humiliated, and I'm not saying that Tosh wasn't a complete dick to her in how he handled it, but context is everything. She's not a victim here.
#130
Bubble181
Bubble181
I am, obviously.No, but I wasn't about to write a treatise on the subject either. Yes, there are shades of gray. Some are saying that this is too dark, and others are saying that it's lighter than it seems.
Who is right?
#132
Tress
Tress
EDIT: Nope, not getting into this argument.
#133
strawman
Did he threaten her or did she perceive a threat in his words, or both according to your chosen definition?
Was there real motive, means and opportunity such that the threat was plausible, possible, likely, or a certainty?
I don't think anyone can argue that the environment - a comedy show - suggested that the stage performance was intended to be anything other than humor, and in fact your assertion that he asked for ideas, and then immediately used that idea suggests, if anything, only points towards this merely being part of his act.
But without video I don't think anyone not present can really make the claim you make, which is that Daniel Tosh threatened this audience member with gang rape.[DOUBLEPOST=1342130606][/DOUBLEPOST]
strawman
Are you using the legal definition of threaten, the dictionary definition of threaten, or your own version of threaten?Then Tosh threatened her.
Did he threaten her or did she perceive a threat in his words, or both according to your chosen definition?
Was there real motive, means and opportunity such that the threat was plausible, possible, likely, or a certainty?
I don't think anyone can argue that the environment - a comedy show - suggested that the stage performance was intended to be anything other than humor, and in fact your assertion that he asked for ideas, and then immediately used that idea suggests, if anything, only points towards this merely being part of his act.
But without video I don't think anyone not present can really make the claim you make, which is that Daniel Tosh threatened this audience member with gang rape.[DOUBLEPOST=1342130606][/DOUBLEPOST]
You've chosen a much better path than I have, that's for sure. I feel like I'm defending an idiot who probably could have handled a bully in his audience better, but can't exactly be faulted for bullying them right back.EDIT: Nope, not getting into this argument.
#134
GasBandit
GasBandit
Do you hold all women to your standard? That they need experience the levels of psychological pain and humiliation that nearly drove you to end your life, and shrug it off because you did? Does your suffering dictate that all must share the experience with grace and serenity?I've had way, way worse things said to me in my life than "Wouldn't it be funny if five guys raped you?" When I was in junior high and the first part of high school, I had literally no friends and was bullied almost to the point where I committed suicide -- and we're talking shit I could have gotten kids arrested for, if I wasn't so afraid of further physical retaliation -- and then I spent five years with a guy who made the list of epithets even longer. I get it. And that's why I can say now -- after overcoming all that shit and building up my self-esteem from zero -- words only have as much power to hurt you as you allow them to have. It's really that easy.
#135
strawman
strawman
You know, I've spent too much time thinking about this, when I should have just summed it up as, "when two bullies fight, everyone wins."
#136
SpecialKO
SpecialKO
...what are y'all even arguing about at this point?
Everyone seems to agree that Tosh is a complete ass and went for the nuclear option in shutting down his heckler, which makes him an even bigger ass than everyone previously suspected.
Everyone seems to agree that, at least on some level, hecklers at comedy shows should know that heckling at comedy shows is a rude, assholish thing to do in general, and should likely realize that comedians insult their hecklers because that's how they handle that sort of thing.
No one appears to be calling for anyone to be arrested.
No one was there or seems to have a video of of the whole thing.
The only thing that you guys seems to be arguing about is who is more right about life in general and are hauling out the cat .gifs as part of the assault.
...
...
...
Carry on, then.
Everyone seems to agree that Tosh is a complete ass and went for the nuclear option in shutting down his heckler, which makes him an even bigger ass than everyone previously suspected.
Everyone seems to agree that, at least on some level, hecklers at comedy shows should know that heckling at comedy shows is a rude, assholish thing to do in general, and should likely realize that comedians insult their hecklers because that's how they handle that sort of thing.
No one appears to be calling for anyone to be arrested.
No one was there or seems to have a video of of the whole thing.
The only thing that you guys seems to be arguing about is who is more right about life in general and are hauling out the cat .gifs as part of the assault.
...
...
...
Carry on, then.
#137
strawman
strawman
Welcome to Halforums. You seem to be new here. Please keep your hands, head, arms, and legs inside the threads at all times. Do not at any time attempt to stop a moving thread with your body. Wait until the thread comes to a complete stop before dismounting. If a thread appears to be trackless, pointless, obscene, or serene, you do not need to adjust your browser - you are observing the thread in the raw.
Thank you for choosing Halforums, and please come again!
Thank you for choosing Halforums, and please come again!
#138
HowDroll
But I also don't go out looking for trouble and heckle shock comedians in the middle of their shows.
HowDroll
Nope. People can react to things however they damn well choose. That's my entire point -- you have control over your reaction to things, for good or for ill.Do you hold all women to your standard? That they need experience the levels of psychological pain and humiliation that nearly drove you to end your life, and shrug it off because you did? Does your suffering dictate that all must share the experience with grace and serenity?
But I also don't go out looking for trouble and heckle shock comedians in the middle of their shows.
#139
Jay
Jay
Welp, this thread is going nowhere fast now.
Abandoning thread.
Abandoning thread.
#140
Bubble181
Bubble181
Please keep your genitalia outside of them though, unless you're posting in the NSFW forum.Please keep your hands, head, arms, and legs inside the threads at all times.
#141
strawman
Someone could totally rip you a new one and you'd be all like, "cool story bro. Wanna beer?"
Conversely, some of the more successful comedians attribute some of their ability to the negative experiences they had earlier in life.
Perhaps by insulting others he's just trying to create more comedians?
I suppose the world just keeps going around and around.[DOUBLEPOST=1342132239][/DOUBLEPOST]
strawman
But if you did think of what you could handle afterwards! It'd be like exposing yourself to the worlds diseases so you can strengthen your immune system.But I also don't go out looking for trouble and heckle shock comedians in the middle of their shows.
Someone could totally rip you a new one and you'd be all like, "cool story bro. Wanna beer?"
Conversely, some of the more successful comedians attribute some of their ability to the negative experiences they had earlier in life.
Perhaps by insulting others he's just trying to create more comedians?
I suppose the world just keeps going around and around.[DOUBLEPOST=1342132239][/DOUBLEPOST]
I'll keep them covered, but they are staying right here with me, you understand?Please keep your genitalia outside of them though, unless you're posting in the NSFW forum.
#142
Necronic
Necronic
Eh.
I dunno. People already knew Tosh was offensive. Unless you're Ric Romero this ain't news. His response to the heckler was offensive, and possibly over the top, and really not that funny (way better ways to tell her to shut up while talking about anatomical stuff). But that woman was out of line for heckling as well. And if you don't think that was heckling then we're never going to be on the same page.
Hecklers get what they get, and comedians get the same. In this case the woman heckled him and got a nasty reply. Tosh's reply wasn't that funny, and so he lost the crowd.
Justice was served.
Now, let's get back to talking about his new thing I keep hearing about called "The Blogosphere".
I dunno. People already knew Tosh was offensive. Unless you're Ric Romero this ain't news. His response to the heckler was offensive, and possibly over the top, and really not that funny (way better ways to tell her to shut up while talking about anatomical stuff). But that woman was out of line for heckling as well. And if you don't think that was heckling then we're never going to be on the same page.
Hecklers get what they get, and comedians get the same. In this case the woman heckled him and got a nasty reply. Tosh's reply wasn't that funny, and so he lost the crowd.
Justice was served.
Now, let's get back to talking about his new thing I keep hearing about called "The Blogosphere".
#143
GasBandit
"Words are just words" is just a broken-psyche defense mechanism you've invented to deal with your pain (or perhaps, avoid dealing). If what you said was correct, there would be no such thing as libel, slander, fighting words or hate speech.
GasBandit
So if someone were to randomly e-publish your home address, times you've been observed to arrive and depart and when you are most commonly home alone, those are just words, and you wouldn't be emotionally affected at all?Nope. People can react to things however they damn well choose. That's my entire point -- you have control over your reaction to things, for good or for ill.
But I also don't go out looking for trouble and heckle shock comedians in the middle of their shows.
"Words are just words" is just a broken-psyche defense mechanism you've invented to deal with your pain (or perhaps, avoid dealing). If what you said was correct, there would be no such thing as libel, slander, fighting words or hate speech.
#144
Necronic
Necronic
What is your deal with taking a situation, reducing it to some fundamental concept, and then blowing it out to the most extreme situation you could?
Would you be happy about it if Han Solo and Chewie came to your door and told you that they hated you? They are just words.
Would you be happy about it if Han Solo and Chewie came to your door and told you that they hated you? They are just words.
#145
sixpackshaker
Everything that is wrong with rape is held up in that joke, "wouldn't it be funny..." He took away the stigma for committing a vile act in a crowd.
It is a hostile situation, with the implication that violence will happen to her if she continues.
The threat is plausible and quite possible. Probably not likely, and nothing is certain but death and taxes.
sixpackshaker
Fine, he made it out that RAPE is A-OK it is funny for 5 men to beat and rape her because she dare put in her input when he asks for it.Are you using the legal definition of threaten, the dictionary definition of threaten, or your own version of threaten?
Did he threaten her or did she perceive a threat in his words, or both according to your chosen definition?
Was there real motive, means and opportunity such that the threat was plausible, possible, likely, or a certainty?
I don't think anyone can argue that the environment - a comedy show - suggested that the stage performance was intended to be anything other than humor, and in fact your assertion that he asked for ideas, and then immediately used that idea suggests, if anything, only points towards this merely being part of his act.
But without video I don't think anyone not present can really make the claim you make, which is that Daniel Tosh threatened this audience member with gang rape.[DOUBLEPOST=1342130606][/DOUBLEPOST]
You've chosen a much better path than I have, that's for sure. I feel like I'm defending an idiot who probably could have handled a bully in his audience better, but can't exactly be faulted for bullying them right back.
Everything that is wrong with rape is held up in that joke, "wouldn't it be funny..." He took away the stigma for committing a vile act in a crowd.
It is a hostile situation, with the implication that violence will happen to her if she continues.
The threat is plausible and quite possible. Probably not likely, and nothing is certain but death and taxes.
#146
HowDroll
HowDroll
I think you have the right idea, my friend.Welp, this thread is going nowhere fast now.
Abandoning thread.
#147
GasBandit
Also the Han and Chewie comparison makes no sense.
GasBandit
I'm not the one who asserted words only affect you if you let them. When you make an absolute assertion, as Droll has, you have to be prepared for that assertion to be put to the test. If it fails then it is unsound.What is your deal with taking a situation, reducing it to some fundamental concept, and then blowing it out to the most extreme situation you could?
Would you be happy about it if Han Solo and Chewie came to your door and told you that they hated you? They are just words.
Also the Han and Chewie comparison makes no sense.
#148
LittleSin
Ploicy and laws are put into pace by men. Most men have trouble comprehending what rape does to a person.
Society says it's worst...but the men in charge can't grasp that because, I believe, it takes a decent amount of cold heartedness to go into politics of any kind.
I may be of base..but this comment just rubs me the wrong way.
LittleSin
No offense, Steinman, but this sounds monumentally stupid.If that were true then the penalties for rape would be worse than the penalties for murder. Society may say that rape is worse, but it's plainly obvious that it's not, or that society isn't willing to back up its words with actions.
Ploicy and laws are put into pace by men. Most men have trouble comprehending what rape does to a person.
Society says it's worst...but the men in charge can't grasp that because, I believe, it takes a decent amount of cold heartedness to go into politics of any kind.
I may be of base..but this comment just rubs me the wrong way.
#149
sixpackshaker
sixpackshaker
I never understand a fucking thing Chewie says, and Han mumbles too much.
#150
Adam
Adam
That never made any sense to me, because sticks and stones do a lifetime of harm too!Sticks and stones my hurt my bones, but words.... well... they can do a lifetime of harm.
#151
LittleSin
LittleSin
Indeed.I knew that when I wrote it, but it irks me whenever people say that words cannot hurt them.. Because well.. They are being untrue.
#152
sixpackshaker
sixpackshaker
It is nice to know that he would have a level head about the altercation.Dane Cook said:"If you journey through this life easily offended by other people's words I think it's best for everyone if you just kill yourself,"
#153
Bubble181
Bubble181
An easier, and less sexist (men don't understand rape) and/or anti-politics (you have to be a heartless asshole to go into politics) way to respond might've been "morals and laws don't always match up; legality and morality are separated and it's foolish to view local and man-made laws as a basis for a universal moral system". I have to say, I raised my eyebrows over that phrase of Stien's, too.No offense, Steinman, but this sounds monumentally stupid.
Ploicy and laws are put into pace by men. Most men have trouble comprehending what rape does to a person.
Society says it's worst...but the men in charge can't grasp that because, I believe, it takes a decent amount of cold heartedness to go into politics of any kind.
I may be of base..but this comment just rubs me the wrong way.
#154
Adam
Adam
If I can be a little insensitive, words only hurt you if you let them. However, not everyone has the wherewithal to withstand that brutality. It takes a very ...strange... kind of personality to be able to stand tall under a barrage of that nature and I have the utmost respect for those that even try.I knew that when I wrote it, but it irks me whenever people say that words cannot hurt them.. Because well.. They are being untrue.
#155
LittleSin
I'm not anti-politics either. I actually endorse a little bit od coldnes in my politicians. I don't want a guy to party with if we met up..I want a guy that looks at all facts and helps guide the body he's helping rule over in the direction that'll benefit most people. This ,however, does mean that such a candidate would be a little more tense when it comes to something so...personal.
LittleSin
Perhaps. I wasn't trying to be PC in my statement...though if I had to change one thing it would be implying that only men have a hand in law and policy. There are just as man socially distant women out there that just can't grasp certain things.An easier, and less sexist (men don't understand rape) and/or anti-politics (you have to be a heartless asshole to go into politics) way to respond might've been "morals and laws don't always match up; legality and morality are separated and it's foolish to view local and man-made laws as a basis for a universal moral system". I have to say, I raised my eyebrows over that phrase of Stien's, too.
I'm not anti-politics either. I actually endorse a little bit od coldnes in my politicians. I don't want a guy to party with if we met up..I want a guy that looks at all facts and helps guide the body he's helping rule over in the direction that'll benefit most people. This ,however, does mean that such a candidate would be a little more tense when it comes to something so...personal.
#156
Bubble181
"Guards! Kill this intruder!" are words that tend to be quite painful for most people, really
Bubble181
If I can be a little insensitive, words only hurt you if you let them. However, not everyone has the wherewithal to withstand that brutality. It takes a very ...strange... kind of personality to be able to stand tall under a barrage of that nature and I have the utmost respect for those that even try.
"Guards! Kill this intruder!" are words that tend to be quite painful for most people, really
#157
HowDroll
HowDroll
I never said that words don't affect me -- in fact, I specifically said that they can and do, if you read my earlier post. I'm not a robot, and you all are blowing what I said way out of context (which is very a propos for this thread.) If my boyfriend walked up to me and said "I'm breaking up with you, you stupid bitch," of course his words would hurt me. If I got into it with some random douche on the street and he called me a cunt -- widely regarded as the worst thing you can call a woman -- I might be angry or upset, but I'd eventually come to the conclusion that the incident reflects on him being an insensitive asshole with a skewed view of human relations rather than anything about me specifically.
There is a HUGE difference between words meant to hurt or humiliate and the sort of overblown things GB was talking about. Sorry, but I don't buy for a second that Tosh's words put the woman's safety in jeopardy for a moment. If the sort of psychopath that would rape a woman as a response to Tosh's "lol wouldn't it be funny if ...?" question was sitting in the audience, yeah, I don't think Tosh's words would really have made much of a difference.
There is a HUGE difference between words meant to hurt or humiliate and the sort of overblown things GB was talking about. Sorry, but I don't buy for a second that Tosh's words put the woman's safety in jeopardy for a moment. If the sort of psychopath that would rape a woman as a response to Tosh's "lol wouldn't it be funny if ...?" question was sitting in the audience, yeah, I don't think Tosh's words would really have made much of a difference.
#158
Bubble181
Laws formed by committee never reflect what "the people" or even "the group of people in the committee" think about things, though. It's one of the big problems with compromises and decisions by committee: you get a compromise between two stupid extremes, which lands smack in the middle of nobody's-happy-valley.
Bubble181
I know. I was pretty sure you didn't mean it as either sexist or anti-political, judging from previous posts.Perhaps. I wasn't trying to be PC in my statement...though if I had to change one thing it would be implying that only men have a hand in law and policy. There are just as man socially distant women out there that just can't grasp certain things.
I'm not anti-politics either. I actually endorse a little bit od coldnes in my politicians. I don't want a guy to party with if we met up..I want a guy that looks at all facts and helps guide the body he's helping rule over in the direction that'll benefit most people. This ,however, does mean that such a candidate would be a little more tense when it comes to something so...personal.
Laws formed by committee never reflect what "the people" or even "the group of people in the committee" think about things, though. It's one of the big problems with compromises and decisions by committee: you get a compromise between two stupid extremes, which lands smack in the middle of nobody's-happy-valley.
#159
Adam
The implication behind 'words can hurt' misses context. Ignorance and stupidity ignore context completely.
Adam
It's not the words that are hurting you, it's the ignorance and stupidity. If I called you a lazy American, you'd laugh and point out that you're 1) not American and 2) not lazy. If some random stranger came up to you and called you a lazy American, your response would be different.Deja vu.
Simply being in the LGBT spectrum makes you an instant target for a lot of hate. Not even having done anything that would justify such actions and vitriol. People will go from liking you to hating you once they find out you are gay or whatever. Often it's also met with more than words (which further exemplifies how much is still wrong in these oh so 'tolerant' countries), but (to get back on track) even just the words can do serious damage and eventually lead to suicide (as illustrated by our very own HowDroll). This happens daily. It happens for countless people and it may happen to your children. I would not teach my kids "words don't hurt (with an implied: so stop crying about it)" because I would be lying. They can, do, and will hurt millions of people of every color, faith and gender every single day.
The implication behind 'words can hurt' misses context. Ignorance and stupidity ignore context completely.
#160
Hailey Knight
Hailey Knight
What I don't understand about this thread is why people keep referring to Tosh as a comedian.
#161
Necronic
You're example is different. Broadcasting personal details like that is dangerous because it leads to dangerous actions. But it's not the personal details that hurt. It's the dude showing up with a pipe.
The point is that words, unlike physical violence, don't create or change reality. If someone were to falsely accuse me of a crime that does not mean I did the crime. It may land me in jail. But it was not the words so much as the choice of the police to listen to them and arrest me that changes reality (or the person who said the words also leaving physical evidence to frame me, or tricking me into supplying my own circumstantial evidence.)
Dude it totally makes sense. That would suck. And it would suck because it would expose to me a reality where I couldn't hang out with Han and Chewie and where they thought I sucked. The words don't change that reality or create it, they just expose something that was already there.
Words are information. Information only describes (or attempts to hide) reality. They never change it.
Necronic
Ok, I'm going to draw from a strange playbook here. Word's don't hurt, not if you have a strong ego. If someone can say something and make you question your own value then you have a weak ego. They did not hurt you, you were already flawed. If someone told me "You're a rapist" it wouldn't hurt because I KNOW I'm not a rapist. If someone said "You're lazy and a fraud" then it would hurt, because my ego is weak on those things. But the words don't create reality, they only put light on reality.I'm not the one who asserted words only affect you if you let them. When you make an absolute assertion, as Droll has, you have to be prepared for that assertion to be put to the test. If it fails then it is unsound.
You're example is different. Broadcasting personal details like that is dangerous because it leads to dangerous actions. But it's not the personal details that hurt. It's the dude showing up with a pipe.
The point is that words, unlike physical violence, don't create or change reality. If someone were to falsely accuse me of a crime that does not mean I did the crime. It may land me in jail. But it was not the words so much as the choice of the police to listen to them and arrest me that changes reality (or the person who said the words also leaving physical evidence to frame me, or tricking me into supplying my own circumstantial evidence.)
Also the Han and Chewie comparison makes no sense.
Dude it totally makes sense. That would suck. And it would suck because it would expose to me a reality where I couldn't hang out with Han and Chewie and where they thought I sucked. The words don't change that reality or create it, they just expose something that was already there.
Words are information. Information only describes (or attempts to hide) reality. They never change it.
#162
Bubble181
To take a very stereotypical example: teenage girls who are insecure about their looks/weight, get picked on for being fat, go on diets and end up anorexic. Don't start about anorexia b eing a disease and not brought on by bullying - if you really want to argue that, I'll just put in another example; I can think of dozens.
Reality is ultimately quite unimportant in most cases. Perception is much more important, and this can easily be changed by words. Words have power.
Bubble181
I honestly can't tell whether this post is meant as trolling or serious. If serious, you really need to re-evaluate your views. Words don't change reality, but they change perception of reality. Both yours, and that of other people. People telling you you are worthless will make you feel worthless. This will give you a worse self-image, leading to being "weaker", to being more concerned about yourself, etc etc. People telling others you are worthless will make those others look at you in a lesser light, make a worse assessment of you, and so on. People telling you that you are [insert typical insecurity here], when you're already insecure on this topic, will further increase your sensitivity to this issue, thus causing (possibly over-)reactions.But the words don't create reality, they only put light on reality.
To take a very stereotypical example: teenage girls who are insecure about their looks/weight, get picked on for being fat, go on diets and end up anorexic. Don't start about anorexia b eing a disease and not brought on by bullying - if you really want to argue that, I'll just put in another example; I can think of dozens.
Reality is ultimately quite unimportant in most cases. Perception is much more important, and this can easily be changed by words. Words have power.
#163
strawman
I suspect the reason why this statement rubs people the wrong way is that both are horrifyingly terrible things, and the reality is that we're really comparing things so far at the other end of the spectrum from happy happy joy joy that they might as well be the same and being that close at the end it's disingenuous to compare them, especially since there are examples of rapes that are clearly worse than some murders, and examples of murders that are clearly worse than some rapes.
You can't generalize, as I did, that "murder is worse than rape" because that's not going to be true for every instance of murder and rape.
However, the law does take into account, to some degree, the severity of the act in either case and thus there are some rapists that get worse punishment than some murderers.
But strictly speaking, comparing one count of rape against one count of murder with no extenuating factors, no pre-meditiation in either case, etc, the punishment for murder is generally more severe, and I don't think it's because lawmakers can't know, or don't know, or haven't taken into account the trauma that rape can inflict.
So, very generally speaking, I don't think our society holds rape to quite the severity as murder. I don't think the law is far from what the majority actually believe the punishment should be. I think that if people want to punish rapists more harshly than murders, generally, then society will have to change to believe that rape is a worse crime than murder. I don't think it's the other way around.
strawman
Many monuments could be built to my stupidity, but no one ever bothers to actually build one. I remain an unrecognized genius of stupidity.No offense, Steinman, but this sounds monumentally stupid.
I suspect the reason why this statement rubs people the wrong way is that both are horrifyingly terrible things, and the reality is that we're really comparing things so far at the other end of the spectrum from happy happy joy joy that they might as well be the same and being that close at the end it's disingenuous to compare them, especially since there are examples of rapes that are clearly worse than some murders, and examples of murders that are clearly worse than some rapes.
You can't generalize, as I did, that "murder is worse than rape" because that's not going to be true for every instance of murder and rape.
However, the law does take into account, to some degree, the severity of the act in either case and thus there are some rapists that get worse punishment than some murderers.
But strictly speaking, comparing one count of rape against one count of murder with no extenuating factors, no pre-meditiation in either case, etc, the punishment for murder is generally more severe, and I don't think it's because lawmakers can't know, or don't know, or haven't taken into account the trauma that rape can inflict.
So, very generally speaking, I don't think our society holds rape to quite the severity as murder. I don't think the law is far from what the majority actually believe the punishment should be. I think that if people want to punish rapists more harshly than murders, generally, then society will have to change to believe that rape is a worse crime than murder. I don't think it's the other way around.
#164
Soliloquy
Soliloquy
Stienman, I understand what you're trying to say, but it's my sincere advice that you stop talking and leave this thread before you lose the respect of every forum member involved in this argument.Many monuments could be built to my stupidity, but no one ever bothers to actually build one. I remain an unrecognized genius of stupidity.
I suspect the reason why this statement rubs people the wrong way is that both are horrifyingly terrible things, and the reality is that we're really comparing things so far at the other end of the spectrum from happy happy joy joy that they might as well be the same and being that close at the end it's disingenuous to compare them, especially since there are examples of rapes that are clearly worse than some murders, and examples of murders that are clearly worse than some rapes.
You can't generalize, as I did, that "murder is worse than rape" because that's not going to be true for every instance of murder and rape.
However, the law does take into account, to some degree, the severity of the act in either case and thus there are some rapists that get worse punishment than some murderers.
But strictly speaking, comparing one count of rape against one count of murder with no extenuating factors, no pre-meditiation in either case, etc, the punishment for murder is generally more severe, and I don't think it's because lawmakers can't know, or don't know, or haven't taken into account the trauma that rape can inflict.
So, very generally speaking, I don't think our society holds rape to quite the severity as murder. I don't think the law is far from what the majority actually believe the punishment should be. I think that if people want to punish rapists more harshly than murders, generally, then society will have to change to believe that rape is a worse crime than murder. I don't think it's the other way around.
#165
Hailey Knight
And I'm wishing Shego was here, so bad.
Hailey Knight
Yeah, it's coming across as "the law is correct because it's the law".Stienman, I understand what you're trying to say, but it's my sincere advice that you stop talking and leave this thread before you lose the respect of every forum member involved in this argument.
And I'm wishing Shego was here, so bad.
#166
Bubble181
Bubble181
I'm pretty sure most people would like both to be sentenced quite a lot more harshly than they are at the moment. Heck, both rape and murder will usualyl get you less than 10 years in prison in Belgium - not because "we, the people" choose it to be so, but because practically anything will be "downgraded" from requiring a jury to being judged only by a judge. However, judges can give a maximum of 5 years in prison, not counting pre-arrest and such - giving you a max of around 10 years. Saves money on juries and on prisons, you know.I don't think the law is far from what the majority actually believe the punishment should be.
#167
sixpackshaker
sixpackshaker
And Bubble your nation's culture is nowhere near as violent as ours.
#168
Jay
Jay
Maybe she was in the theater....Yeah, it's coming across as "the law is correct because it's the law".
And I'm wishing Shego was here, so bad.
#169
Bubble181
Bubble181
True - and I'll add that the more violent varieties tend to still get tried before a jury and get higher sentences. Still, even a fairly non-violent rape deserves more than 5 or 6 years, to me.And Bubble your nation's culture is nowhere near as violent as ours.
#170
Hailey Knight
HAR HAR JUST A JOKE U MAD BROS DERP DERP
Hailey Knight
Wouldn't it be funny if when Tosh left, Shego came up behind him with a giant dildo and...Maybe she was in the theater....
HAR HAR JUST A JOKE U MAD BROS DERP DERP
#171
Silent Bob
Now that's not fair at all. I get the point. And I get that Daniel Tosh is an ass for his comments. I think you're missing my point that what he was originally doing before getting heckled was not so out of the ordinary for comedy (hence all the videos).[DOUBLEPOST=1342140588][/DOUBLEPOST]
Moral of the story: Don't heckle a guy who's profession is making fun of people.
Silent Bob
https://www.halforums.com/threads/daniel-tosh-is-an-ass.27978/#post-966635
He posted about 10 videos in total to make his point, while missing the point.
Now that's not fair at all. I get the point. And I get that Daniel Tosh is an ass for his comments. I think you're missing my point that what he was originally doing before getting heckled was not so out of the ordinary for comedy (hence all the videos).[DOUBLEPOST=1342140588][/DOUBLEPOST]
That was awesome.[DOUBLEPOST=1342140830][/DOUBLEPOST]You make a compelling point, but it turns out that to some people that's funny. That is merely another type of humor for them. Off-ending people. They believe its funny to annoy and upset others. To tip and trip them up, make them feel uncomfortable, and cause them to question their assumptions and beliefs.
To some degree it's a bit like sarcasm. Some people will never find it funny, and can't possibly understand why others would find it funny.
But the reality is that people view things from fundamentally different perspectives. Something that would offend me might not offend you. If you don't find it offensive, you might find it funny because you know me to some degree, and therefore it becomes an inside joke.
Well known inside jokes that are offensive to some might include racist jokes like certain ethnicities/races preferring fried chicken, or other ethnicities/races being known as penny pinchers.
So then the question is not whether being offensive is the objective and thus the "bad" type of comedy, but whether the intended audience accepts it as a joke at the expense of those that would become offended.
If we got rid of all the jokes in the world which can only occur at the expense of another human, I think we'd eliminate most jokes. It's often when we identify our own foibles and poke fun at them that some humor occurs. I particularly enjoy self deprecating comedians, but that doesn't mean I don't laugh at the jokes at the expense of law enforcement, TSA workers, and programmers.
It's not funny that he suggested rape as the answer to her heckling.
It's funny that with one single sequence of words he was able to completely shut her down and get her to high tail it out of there.
He didn't threaten her. He didn't punch her. He didn't do anything but use his words.
And people laughed not because they were all imagining her getting raped. They laughed because she started a fight and lost so completely that she fled. She didn't flee in fear, she fled due to complete humiliation.
And once she found a safe spot away from him behind the Internet and the specter of rape culture, she renewed her attack and said he was a bad comedian for humiliating her so badly she couldn't keep her resolve and she fled with her tail between her legs.
She's not trying to stop rape culture, she's trying to get back at the guy that humiliated her in front of a few hundred people so badly that they laughed at her on the way out the door.
Yeah, but the lady essentially was dangling her lunch money in front of the bully and then got crazy surprised that he took it and shoved her in the mud in the process.See, the humour here is a bit what you said yourself: this is funny because she's humiliated. That's humour at the level of bullying and thinking it's funny to hang the nerd up the flagpole by his underwear. That's not humour, that's humiliating/degrading someone. A comedian whose schtick it is to bully and humiliate people isn't a very good comedian. He's an ass, and a bully.
Moral of the story: Don't heckle a guy who's profession is making fun of people.
#172
sixpackshaker
sixpackshaker
The moral of the story is there is nothing fun about rape, unless you are the rapist.
#173
Silent Bob
Climbing in yo windows, snatching yo people up?
Silent Bob
The moral of the story is there is nothing fun about rape, unless you are the rapist.
Climbing in yo windows, snatching yo people up?
#174
checkeredhat
checkeredhat
That's what rapists tend to say about rape victims.Yeah, but the lady essentially was dangling her lunch money in front of the bully and then got crazy surprised that he took it and shoved her in the mud in the process.
#175
Hailey Knight
Hailey Knight
#176
Silent Bob
Yeah, ok, do me a favor. Go to Time Square and wave 100 bucks around. Post me a picture of your surprised face when someone snatches it from you.
Silent Bob
That's what rapists tend to say about rape victims.
Yeah, ok, do me a favor. Go to Time Square and wave 100 bucks around. Post me a picture of your surprised face when someone snatches it from you.
#177
Hailey Knight
Hailey Knight
That is exactly the same as someone forcing his dick into you.Yeah, ok, do me a favor. Go to Time Square and wave 100 bucks around. Post me a picture of your surprised face when someone snatches it from you.
#178
Silent Bob
Silent Bob
What? Are you high? I'm not saying it's right. I'm saying that's what's going to happen.
#179
Bubble181
Bubble181
He wasn't talking about rape; he was talking about giving a woman a harsh comeback. You are deliberately twisting his argument to suggest he's a rape apologist. His analogy of waving a bill in front of someone and getting it stolen, is much closer to heckling a comedian and getting chewed out, than your comparison to rape. Reread this thread; either you're misinterpreting and are, for some reason, suddenly thinking he's defending some sort of rape, or you're strawmanning out of your ass and trying to make him look guilty by association, both of which are crappy argumentational tools for when you know you're losing the debate.That is exactly the same as someone forcing his dick into you.
#180
Silent Bob
Silent Bob
What the fuck is wrong with you people? Fuck off you if you think for a second I'm condoning rape. You can eat shit and die.
#181
Hailey Knight
If that's not what you meant, you need a different analogy.
Hailey Knight
I'm not gonna get into this with you since rape = bad is some kind of gray area on your end.He wasn't talking about rape; he was talking about giving a woman a harsh comeback. You are deliberately twisting his argument to suggest he's a rape apologist. His analogy of waving a bill in front of someone and getting it stolen, is much closer to heckling a comedian and getting chewed out, than your comparison to rape. Reread this thread; either you're misinterpreting and are, for some reason, suddenly thinking he's defending some sort of rape, or you're strawmanning out of your ass and trying to make him look guilty by association, both of which are crappy argumentational tools for when you know you're losing the debate.
Then don't change the scenario from opposing force (heckler vs guy on stage) to victim scenario (person with money vs thief) which considering the subject at hand and what checkeredhat pointed out, is the same kind of metaphor made by rapists of women who are "asking for it".What? Are you high? I'm not saying it's right. I'm saying that's what's going to happen.
If that's not what you meant, you need a different analogy.
#182
Bubble181
Bubble181
Can I interest anyone in this beautiful picture of the ruins of an inn, quite near, in fact, jsut before, a loch in Scotland?
#183
Hailey Knight
Hailey Knight
Not the disagree.
NOT THE DISAGREE!
Eh, I can't make fun of it anymore now that I've used it.
NOT THE DISAGREE!
Eh, I can't make fun of it anymore now that I've used it.
#184
Silent Bob
The scenario I described with the money is EXACTLY what went down with the heckler. EXACTLY! She waved a steak in front of a bear and then "oh shit faced" when it swatted a paw at her face. In no way am I saying something along the lines of "she deserved it because she wore a red dress". If you can't tell the difference then you're an idiot, and I have nothing more to say to you.
Silent Bob
I'm not gonna get into this with you since rape = bad is some kind of gray area on your end.
Then don't change the scenario from opposing force (heckler vs guy on stage) to victim scenario (person with money vs thief) which considering the subject at hand and what checkeredhat pointed out, is the same kind of metaphor made by rapists of women who are "asking for it".
If that's not what you meant, you need a different analogy.
The scenario I described with the money is EXACTLY what went down with the heckler. EXACTLY! She waved a steak in front of a bear and then "oh shit faced" when it swatted a paw at her face. In no way am I saying something along the lines of "she deserved it because she wore a red dress". If you can't tell the difference then you're an idiot, and I have nothing more to say to you.
#185
Hailey Knight
Hailey Knight
Well, he can't see me anymore, but I'll clarify that "rape is a gray area" and "sometimes women are asking for it"... yeah, that sounds like someone with a real understanding of what he said wrong.[DOUBLEPOST=1342144301][/DOUBLEPOST]Fuck off. I've said 10.000 times I. DO. NOT. THINK. ANY. RAPE. IS. OK.
I'm done talking to you. You don't listen, you get an idea in your head and stick with it. Go reread that thread adn get it through your head I wasn't talking about rape, I was talking about several of the grey areas that do exist surrounding rape.
Trolling and getting a rise out of people may be fun to you, but it's a bloody nuisance to me. Congrats on being the very first person, ever, on my ignore list.
I don't agree, but I see where we're differing. You're saying because she made mention of the joke type being not funny, she invited him to try doing exactly that (which he failed completely and utterly). I was looking at it as she made a verbal prod, and he came back with a verbal overkill. So more like poking the bear and getting a swat than offering it to swat you.The scenario I described with the money is EXACTLY what went down with the heckler. EXACTLY! She waved a steak in front of a bear and then "oh shit faced" when it swatted a paw at her face. In no way am I saying something along the lines of "she deserved it because she wore a red dress".
#186
Silent Bob
YOU DON"T HECKLE A COMEDIAN! PERIOD! Just like you don't wave a salmon in front of a goddamn bear. How hard is that to understand?
Silent Bob
Well, he can't see me anymore, but I'll clarify that "rape is a gray area" and "sometimes women are asking for it"... yeah, that sounds like someone with a real understanding of what he said wrong.[DOUBLEPOST=1342144301][/DOUBLEPOST]
I don't agree, but I see where we're differing. You're saying because she made mention of the joke type being not funny, she invited him to try doing exactly that (which he failed completely and utterly). I was looking at it as she made a verbal prod, and he came back with a verbal overkill. So more like poking the bear and getting a swat than offering it to swat you.
YOU DON"T HECKLE A COMEDIAN! PERIOD! Just like you don't wave a salmon in front of a goddamn bear. How hard is that to understand?
#187
Hailey Knight
Hailey Knight
WHAT COMEDIAN?YOU DON"T HECKLE A COMEDIAN! PERIOD!
#188
Frank
Frank
I'm a little puzzled by the disagrees I got about freedom of speech. I kind of wish people had explained that one rather than just disagree and move on.Not the disagree.
NOT THE DISAGREE!
Eh, I can't make fun of it anymore now that I've used it.
#189
Silent Bob
Silent Bob
If you seriously can't grasp how fucked it was that she interrupted him the first place, then I think we're done discussing this.
#190
Dave
Dave
All right, time to dial it back a bit. I'm in WoW and don't want to babysit. Deep breathes and realize that everyone in this situation was stupid and wrong.
#191
Hailey Knight
- Tosh is no comedian.
- She shouldn't have heckled and was an ass for doing so. < -- I want people to remember this one as I get into the rest of it.
- If he was going to make a joke, he should have made one. There's a difference between making a rape joke and acting like rape itself is a joke. He did the latter, because all he did was bring up rape and say "wouldn't it be funny?" I understand some people lack talent and it's hard for him to create a witty comeback on the fly. He should've had something prepped, ignored her, or told her to get the hell out if she didn't like the show. He had alternatives, choices, but because he's a douchebag, he said what he said. It wasn't a situation of equal wrongs; one did wrong, he could've handled it in other ways. He didn't.
- Whether she genuinely felt threatened or she came home and launched an assault from the safety of the internet, he still shouldn't have said what he said. If the answer to his question is "no" then he shouldn't said it. She may be full of shit about how she felt. I don't know; I'm not in her head. He still shouldn't have said it.
- The answer is "no".
- Rape is bad. Clean cut, no gray areas as Bubble believes, it is bad, end of story.
Hailey Knight
All right, let's lay down my point of view in a nice and simple list.If you seriously can't grasp how fucked it was that she interrupted him the first place, then I think we're done discussing this.
- Tosh is no comedian.
- She shouldn't have heckled and was an ass for doing so. < -- I want people to remember this one as I get into the rest of it.
- If he was going to make a joke, he should have made one. There's a difference between making a rape joke and acting like rape itself is a joke. He did the latter, because all he did was bring up rape and say "wouldn't it be funny?" I understand some people lack talent and it's hard for him to create a witty comeback on the fly. He should've had something prepped, ignored her, or told her to get the hell out if she didn't like the show. He had alternatives, choices, but because he's a douchebag, he said what he said. It wasn't a situation of equal wrongs; one did wrong, he could've handled it in other ways. He didn't.
- Whether she genuinely felt threatened or she came home and launched an assault from the safety of the internet, he still shouldn't have said what he said. If the answer to his question is "no" then he shouldn't said it. She may be full of shit about how she felt. I don't know; I'm not in her head. He still shouldn't have said it.
- The answer is "no".
- Rape is bad. Clean cut, no gray areas as Bubble believes, it is bad, end of story.
#192
sixpackshaker
sixpackshaker
I don't think Don Rickles ever condoned raping a heckler. He would insult the shit out of his hecklers but even Mr. Warmth would not cross that line.
#193
Bubble181
What gets me most is that I agree with you on about 85% of all things, and you're usually quite articulate and smart. For some reason, you've got the idea stuck in your head that I'm an evil rape apologist asshole who thinks "a little bit of force to convince her isn't wrong" or something. Either get it through your head that that is not what I said or say; get off your fucking high white horse to observe the actual world, and not the ideal one where no girl has ever claimed rape where none happened, where no girl ever drank her own problems away and got into bed with someone afterwards who she'd not consider in plain daylight (and surprise! That one is a two way street! But if a guy gets so drunk he sleeps with a girl he thinks is ugly the day after ,he doesn't claim she raped him! ...usually), or leave me the fuck alone. Because I promise you, every time you call me out as some sort of rape apologist, I will come by to insult you and tell you to get the fuck off my case. There are plenty of things you can joke about with me; I'm skinny, a nervous wreck, in a depression because of FWPs, I'm bald and grey-haired at 27, I have a speech impediment, I wear glasses; my political views get me scolded by both left and right as an extremist the other way; but don't call me a rape apologist, mmkay?
Bubble181
Look, I took you right back off my ignore list because I didn't want to be a baby and whatever, but this? For the last time, GO READ WHAT I WROTE. Others even explained it better than I could. I was talking about instances where, for example, a girl was OK with it but changed her mind afterwards. I was talking about the fin line (and fuck off, it IS) between a girl who's had a bit to drink and has slightly lowered inhibitions, doing things she otherwise wouldn't dare, and a girl that has had too much to drink and does thinks she otherwise wouldn't want to. For all I care, there are some other grey areas you can include as well. An 18 year old with a 55 year old is legal and all you want, but is fucking creepy and wrong. A 19 year old and a 17 year old are illegal in many states/countries, while it can be a perfectly healthy relationship (I'm not talking Icarus-age-differences here, mind). I'm not saying, nor have I ever said, rape is a moral grey area. I have said, and will continue to say, that there are a lot of grey areas surrounding rape and similar issues.All right, let's lay down my point of view in a nice and simple list.
- Tosh is no comedian.
- She shouldn't have heckled and was an ass for doing so. < -- I want people to remember this one as I get into the rest of it.
- If he was going to make a joke, he should have made one. There's a difference between making a rape joke and acting like rape itself is a joke. He did the latter, because all he did was bring up rape and say "wouldn't it be funny?" I understand some people lack talent and it's hard for him to create a witty comeback on the fly. He should've had something prepped, ignored her, or told her to get the hell out if she didn't like the show. He had alternatives, choices, but because he's a douchebag, he said what he said. It wasn't a situation of equal wrongs; one did wrong, he could've handled it in other ways. He didn't.
- Whether she genuinely felt threatened or she came home and launched an assault from the safety of the internet, he still shouldn't have said what he said. If the answer to his question is "no" then he shouldn't said it. She may be full of shit about how she felt. I don't know; I'm not in her head. He still shouldn't have said it.
- The answer is "no".
- Rape is bad. Clean cut, no gray areas as Bubble believes, it is bad, end of story.
What gets me most is that I agree with you on about 85% of all things, and you're usually quite articulate and smart. For some reason, you've got the idea stuck in your head that I'm an evil rape apologist asshole who thinks "a little bit of force to convince her isn't wrong" or something. Either get it through your head that that is not what I said or say; get off your fucking high white horse to observe the actual world, and not the ideal one where no girl has ever claimed rape where none happened, where no girl ever drank her own problems away and got into bed with someone afterwards who she'd not consider in plain daylight (and surprise! That one is a two way street! But if a guy gets so drunk he sleeps with a girl he thinks is ugly the day after ,he doesn't claim she raped him! ...usually), or leave me the fuck alone. Because I promise you, every time you call me out as some sort of rape apologist, I will come by to insult you and tell you to get the fuck off my case. There are plenty of things you can joke about with me; I'm skinny, a nervous wreck, in a depression because of FWPs, I'm bald and grey-haired at 27, I have a speech impediment, I wear glasses; my political views get me scolded by both left and right as an extremist the other way; but don't call me a rape apologist, mmkay?
#194
Silent Bob
Silent Bob
It's actually pretty disgusting to twist someones argument into something along the lines that they're ok with rape. Any idiot can understand that pretty much everyone universally agrees that rape is bad with no grey areas. That doesn't mean that jokes about it don't have grey areas. I'm 100% certain that no where Bubble was defending rapists or the act itself. Any moron can see that, unless you're simply trolling to get a rise out of either of us.
#195
Chippy
Chippy
In what world do you live in where those things are a major problem?Either get it through your head that that is not what I said or say; get off your fucking high white horse to observe the actual world, and not the ideal one where no girl has ever claimed rape where none happened, where no girl ever drank her own problems away and got into bed with someone afterwards who she'd not consider in plain daylight
#196
checkeredhat
What they are talking about was in another thread in the Politics subforum from before you arrived here. Or atleast before I noticed. (Welcome, by the way. I'd say we aren't always like this.... but really there's usually at least one thread going like this one)
Thread and relevant comments can be found here, derive from them what you will, I'm staying out of it:
https://www.halforums.com/threads/u-s-military-rape-culture.27925/
checkeredhat
It's actually pretty disgusting to twist someones argument into something along the lines that they're ok with rape. Any idiot can understand that pretty much everyone universally agrees that rape is bad with no grey areas. That doesn't mean that jokes about it don't have grey areas. I'm 100% certain that no where Bubble was defending rapists or the act itself. Any moron can see that, unless you're simply trolling to get a rise out of either of us.
What they are talking about was in another thread in the Politics subforum from before you arrived here. Or atleast before I noticed. (Welcome, by the way. I'd say we aren't always like this.... but really there's usually at least one thread going like this one)
Thread and relevant comments can be found here, derive from them what you will, I'm staying out of it:
https://www.halforums.com/threads/u-s-military-rape-culture.27925/
#197
LittleSin
\
We're going down, dudes.
LittleSin
We're going down, dudes.
#198
Chippy
Chippy
Ahhhhh that fucking thread. What the fuck, Bubble?
#199
Bubble181
You think those 90 lives aren't worth saving, or these cases aren't worth the consideration, and you're just as bad as the people who claim rape isn't a huge issue and only affects a minute minority and it isn't worth all those tax dollars.
Rape, murder, child abuse, hate crimes, they're all issues that only affect a small minority. They're still worth investigating and checking and spending whole huge wads of money on. I never claimed false rape accusations, or questionable rape cases, or whatever, are a huge factor or incredibly important. But I still stand by my point. Even if it only happens one time throughout all of history, that one person's life being ruined is still a major thing.
Bubble181
We already had a lovely thread discussing this. I don't care if it's a small/minute problem. According to the official figures (and I'm absolutely in agreeance that rape is a hugely underreported crime and the actual numbers are much higher, unfortunately), the rape rate in the US is about 30 per 100.000 people. That is "rare"" and whatever as well. It's still a big issue. If even 1 in a thousand of those rapes is a case where it isn't cut-and-dried, where perhaps it wasn't actually rape but she's now claiming it is for some other reasons (to avoid divorce, say), or whatever, that's still 90 people A YEAR, in the US alone, who're being falsely accused of rape, or being threatened with the accusation of rape, or whatever.In what world do you live in where those things are a major problem?
You think those 90 lives aren't worth saving, or these cases aren't worth the consideration, and you're just as bad as the people who claim rape isn't a huge issue and only affects a minute minority and it isn't worth all those tax dollars.
Rape, murder, child abuse, hate crimes, they're all issues that only affect a small minority. They're still worth investigating and checking and spending whole huge wads of money on. I never claimed false rape accusations, or questionable rape cases, or whatever, are a huge factor or incredibly important. But I still stand by my point. Even if it only happens one time throughout all of history, that one person's life being ruined is still a major thing.
#200
LittleSin
LittleSin
Bubble....dude...breathe a little.
This is obviously a hot button for you. You need to step back, like, three posts ago.
This is obviously a hot button for you. You need to step back, like, three posts ago.
#201
Chippy
Chippy
Yeah dude you are so brave for sticking up for the men by doubting rape victims. And yes, the things you call grey areas are still rape.We already had a lovely thread discussing this. I don't care if it's a small/minute problem. According to the official figures (and I'm absolutely in agreeance that rape is a hugely underreported crime and the actual numbers are much higher, unfortunately), the rape rate in the US is about 30 per 100.000 people. That is "rare"" and whatever as well. It's still a big issue. If even 1 in a thousand of those rapes is a case where it isn't cut-and-dried, where perhaps it wasn't actually rape but she's now claiming it is for some other reasons (to avoid divorce, say), or whatever, that's still 90 people A YEAR, in the US alone, who're being falsely accused of rape, or being threatened with the accusation of rape, or whatever.
You think those 90 lives aren't worth saving, or these cases aren't worth the consideration, and you're just as bad as the people who claim rape isn't a huge issue and only affects a minute minority and it isn't worth all those tax dollars.
Rape, murder, child abuse, hate crimes, they're all issues that only affect a small minority. They're still worth investigating and checking and spending whole huge wads of money on. I never claimed false rape accusations, or questionable rape cases, or whatever, are a huge factor or incredibly important. But I still stand by my point. Even if it only happens one time throughout all of history, that one person's life being ruined is still a major thing.
#202
strawman
Either way, I see I got caught in the trap of talking about rape, rather than the original topic of the thread. Silly me!
Thanks for pointing that out.
strawman
You understand, but you disagree with it, and believe that others will either misundstand or disagree too, and thereby I might lose their respect?Stienman, I understand what you're trying to say, but it's my sincere advice that you stop talking and leave this thread before you lose the respect of every forum member involved in this argument.
Either way, I see I got caught in the trap of talking about rape, rather than the original topic of the thread. Silly me!
Thanks for pointing that out.
#203
Bubble181
Then the Quotemander pushed my buttons a few more times. I'm sorry being called a rape apologist is something that gets me angry, I guess?
Well, no, you know what ,I'm sorry I'm venting my anger this strongly and I admit that's my issue. On the other hand, I do think I'm perfectly within my right to feel attacked/disgusted/insulted when somebody calls me a rape apologist seriously.
If you go back just a few pages in this same thread, you can see I'm perfectly fine joking about things. I don't necessarily always blow my top whenever the R-word is mentioned. I do, however, explode when I'm attacked on this issue, because it is a very sensitive thing for me - and everyone, to a degree, really.
Like I said earlier in this thread as well - perception is more important than reality, in a lot of cases. I do not want my image here to be that of the local pervert (in the "rape apologist" way. I don't mind being the local pervert in the "guy who always sees the ass in the picture before noticing the dogdriving a car in the background" way.). If that means my image becomes that of a guy with anger management issues and a whole lot of oversensitivity on some issues, well, that's not good, either, but it's still better than being thought of as "the guy who thinks rape isn't so bad"'.
Bubble181
I did. I reported this thread for getting out of hand way back when I posted the inn before the loch.Bubble....dude...breathe a little.
This is obviously a hot button for you. You need to step back, like, three posts ago.
Then the Quotemander pushed my buttons a few more times. I'm sorry being called a rape apologist is something that gets me angry, I guess?
Well, no, you know what ,I'm sorry I'm venting my anger this strongly and I admit that's my issue. On the other hand, I do think I'm perfectly within my right to feel attacked/disgusted/insulted when somebody calls me a rape apologist seriously.
If you go back just a few pages in this same thread, you can see I'm perfectly fine joking about things. I don't necessarily always blow my top whenever the R-word is mentioned. I do, however, explode when I'm attacked on this issue, because it is a very sensitive thing for me - and everyone, to a degree, really.
Like I said earlier in this thread as well - perception is more important than reality, in a lot of cases. I do not want my image here to be that of the local pervert (in the "rape apologist" way. I don't mind being the local pervert in the "guy who always sees the ass in the picture before noticing the dogdriving a car in the background" way.). If that means my image becomes that of a guy with anger management issues and a whole lot of oversensitivity on some issues, well, that's not good, either, but it's still better than being thought of as "the guy who thinks rape isn't so bad"'.
#204
Silent Bob
It's the same as capital punishment. I'd rather see 100 guilty persons go free if it saves the life of an innocent being put to death.
Silent Bob
Uh, he actually makes a really good point and one I happen to agree with.Yeah dude you are so brave for sticking up for the men by doubting rape victims. And yes, the things you call grey areas are still rape.
It's the same as capital punishment. I'd rather see 100 guilty persons go free if it saves the life of an innocent being put to death.
#205
Chippy
Chippy
I mean, who cares if rape victims are too scared of being doubted and called a liar to come forward? at least we protected the menz.
#206
LittleSin
LittleSin
Before this gets locked down:
I told my tail of walking back to my car one night, getting pinned up against the wall, punched and dfending myself BRUTALLY (I made the dude scream, cry and run away.)
I have no doubt what was intended for me.
I never told the cops. One: I assulted the guy with far worst then he gave me. Two: I was afraid they wouldn't believe me. I'm over weight, I don't consider myself something that a rapsit would look for...and I feared the cops would think that to.
On the other hand...I have at least two relatives claim rape and later admit that they were just ashamed of who they had slept with.
So, it happens...both things happen.
Neither is good.
I told my tail of walking back to my car one night, getting pinned up against the wall, punched and dfending myself BRUTALLY (I made the dude scream, cry and run away.)
I have no doubt what was intended for me.
I never told the cops. One: I assulted the guy with far worst then he gave me. Two: I was afraid they wouldn't believe me. I'm over weight, I don't consider myself something that a rapsit would look for...and I feared the cops would think that to.
On the other hand...I have at least two relatives claim rape and later admit that they were just ashamed of who they had slept with.
So, it happens...both things happen.
Neither is good.
#207
Bubble181
I'm not doubting rape victims. The only thing I'm saying, and I will continue saying this with my dieing breath, is that there is no such thing as a moral area without grey areas. Mine may be different than yours, but they're still there. Anyone claiming "there's no grey area" is an idiot.
For the record, in my life, I've had sex only in a long-term, committed relationship. I'm not trying to get people to accept some dirty thing in my past. I've turned down quite a few girls when I thought they were too drunk. Some didn't remember. Some didn't care and went home with someone else - or didn't. Some were disappointed. Two were actually angry with me - one because she thought I turned her down, the other because she said she'd drunk only to get up the courage to ask me along and when I turned her down, well, that hurt. Still, I said no. If I had been the type to say yes to this sort of things, i'd have gotten laid a lot more, but I wouldn't have felt good about myself. Had one of them, afterwards (key word here!), said that she hadn't wanted to, after all, would that have made me a rapist? A slimeball, sure; a horndog, an asshole,... a whole lot of things. Taking advantage of a truly innocent girl is despicable. But if it wasn't me pouring those drinks down her throat, it's not rape.
Bubble181
Sorry, I forgot our justice system was based on "innocent until proven guilty, unless about rape, because the mere accusation is definite proof and you should be instantly shot the moment someone suggests you might have looked at a drunk girl the wrong way".Yeah dude you are so brave for sticking up for the men by doubting rape victims. And yes, the things you call grey areas are still rape.
I'm not doubting rape victims. The only thing I'm saying, and I will continue saying this with my dieing breath, is that there is no such thing as a moral area without grey areas. Mine may be different than yours, but they're still there. Anyone claiming "there's no grey area" is an idiot.
For the record, in my life, I've had sex only in a long-term, committed relationship. I'm not trying to get people to accept some dirty thing in my past. I've turned down quite a few girls when I thought they were too drunk. Some didn't remember. Some didn't care and went home with someone else - or didn't. Some were disappointed. Two were actually angry with me - one because she thought I turned her down, the other because she said she'd drunk only to get up the courage to ask me along and when I turned her down, well, that hurt. Still, I said no. If I had been the type to say yes to this sort of things, i'd have gotten laid a lot more, but I wouldn't have felt good about myself. Had one of them, afterwards (key word here!), said that she hadn't wanted to, after all, would that have made me a rapist? A slimeball, sure; a horndog, an asshole,... a whole lot of things. Taking advantage of a truly innocent girl is despicable. But if it wasn't me pouring those drinks down her throat, it's not rape.
#208
Ravenpoe
Ravenpoe
Fucking fuckity fuck.
7 pages?
7 goddamn pages?
And it boils down back to this?
I'm just going to go somewhere else to get my fill of pointless rape conversation.
7 pages?
7 goddamn pages?
And it boils down back to this?
I'm just going to go somewhere else to get my fill of pointless rape conversation.
#209
Charlie Don't Surf
Charlie Don't Surf
Everything chippy said itt is right
#210
drifter
Whoa, maybe rethink the implications there, Bubble.
drifter
But if it wasn't me pouring those drinks down her throat, it's not rape.
Whoa, maybe rethink the implications there, Bubble.
#211
Chippy
(Hint: That's rape.)
Chippy
Right. It just would have been you choosing to have sex with someone who couldn't properly consent.But if it wasn't me pouring those drinks down her throat, it's not rape.
(Hint: That's rape.)
#212
LittleSin
LittleSin
Holy shit.
Bubble, man, you gotta spin that and spin that FAST.
Bubble, man, you gotta spin that and spin that FAST.
#213
Dave
Dave
It's been fun.
