All too often? It's because you don't read stories where police aren't being accused of some sort of misconduct because no one writes them. You'll never see in the paper, "Officer arrests man accused of crime relatively peacably, things sorted out later at station." because that is not news. That happens hundreds of times a day in every city in the world.rac3r_x said:
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Zappit
Staff member
From what I've been hearing/reading, Gates wouldn't initially provide ID to prove he was who he claimed he was, then started crying race. He then produced ID, and when the cops were leaving, he went off on them. Basically, disorderly conduct was happening, and if he was insulting the cops and their mothers, he could have gotten an assault charge. (verbal)
The arresting officer is an expert on racial issues, even teaching classes at the police academy on that topic for five years; he was appointed by a former chief of police who himself was black. This is not someone who would harass someone based on race. He arrested a man who was getting out of control. He followed protocol. Would you follow a report of a break-in, and then simply leave if the guy inside says, "It's my house."? It gets to a point where the police don't have to take shit from an uncooperative person. I don't think that cop has anything to apologize for - now that more information is coming out, it seems that he was acting pretty responsibly, and he's got every right to say he's got nothing to apologize for.
As for the Obama comments - good job, moron. "I don't have all the facts, but I do think the police acted stupidly." He shouldn't have been commenting on a local issue at all, let alone condemning and downright insulting the cops at the same time. But, you know, Gates and Obama are friends, so it's not too surprising he took Gates' side. If anything, the president's blunt, irresponsibly reactionary comments didn't do too much for race relations with those statements. I'm disappointed, more than anything, because he really seemed like he was above that kind of thing, or at least smarter than that.
The arresting officer is an expert on racial issues, even teaching classes at the police academy on that topic for five years; he was appointed by a former chief of police who himself was black. This is not someone who would harass someone based on race. He arrested a man who was getting out of control. He followed protocol. Would you follow a report of a break-in, and then simply leave if the guy inside says, "It's my house."? It gets to a point where the police don't have to take shit from an uncooperative person. I don't think that cop has anything to apologize for - now that more information is coming out, it seems that he was acting pretty responsibly, and he's got every right to say he's got nothing to apologize for.
As for the Obama comments - good job, moron. "I don't have all the facts, but I do think the police acted stupidly." He shouldn't have been commenting on a local issue at all, let alone condemning and downright insulting the cops at the same time. But, you know, Gates and Obama are friends, so it's not too surprising he took Gates' side. If anything, the president's blunt, irresponsibly reactionary comments didn't do too much for race relations with those statements. I'm disappointed, more than anything, because he really seemed like he was above that kind of thing, or at least smarter than that.
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Chibibar
yea.. the police report link (page 1) show that Gates did show the ID later and it was establish that Gates is the owner/resident of the home.Zappit said:
I think Gates did act poorly, but he did just came home after a long trip from China, had to break into his own house because the front door is faulty, while surveying his house, saw a police in his porch. I'm sure Gates was cranky at the time, but we have no record of what is actually was said (or tone for that matter) and Gates just jump the cop verbally and it kinda escalate from there.
Zappit
Staff member
He could have been cranky, but you have got to keep your cool with the police. There has never been any exceptions to that rule, and it's always been that way. He initially didn't cooperate, but got even more upset after the cops were starting to leave. If he really did lose his temper and insulted the cops, the arrest was justified. If not, then the cops acted out of line. Gates is claiming he willingly offered his ID immediately, never cried race, and was an absolute gentleman the entire time the police were there. That just doesn't seem to be the story, though.
All we need is more time to find out what really happened. Maybe there's something on a dashboard cam. Maybe there's some other witnesses. We just need to wait and see.
All we need is more time to find out what really happened. Maybe there's something on a dashboard cam. Maybe there's some other witnesses. We just need to wait and see.
Howso?Krisken said:
It has dawned on me that redthirtyone might not be American, which would help to understand why he wouldn't know the words negative connotation.Cajungal said:
Sadly, the word is still pretty well known for those negatives here in the United States. While not said, it's well understood what is usually implied.
Keep in mind I in no way was trying to say that Zappit was making a covert offensive comment. I just thought that I would point out a word that is a poor choice and could detract from the message he wished to portray.
Edit: For what I really wanted to say, not what it said
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Chazwozel
redthirtyone said:
Dude, what rock did you just crawl out from under?
And a big :eyeroll: to people using the police report as a source for the time that Gates showed his I.D. I'm sure the cop wrote everything down according to exactly how it happened.
Well - now that its been pointed out - yeah I've heard of it before. But the wrong person fell for the bait.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=uppity
Was where I had to go to be "reminded" of this connotation, and of the 10 definitions there, only the one has it a such. So basically - the word uppity can't be used in this situation because the person acting in such an uppity was is black?
Because that's exactly how he was acting. He was being a snobby, elitist, educated prick. The whole thing smells of Gates whipping out the "don't you know who I am?" line that "famous" people like to use when they're not getting the royal treatment the feel they deserve. He even went so far as to complete the set by asking for the cop's badge # - which is law enforcement for "Let me speak to your manager". The fact that he is black just allows a larger group of people to be sympathetic to his version of the story. Oh - and then we throw in the cane bit :eyeroll:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=uppity
Was where I had to go to be "reminded" of this connotation, and of the 10 definitions there, only the one has it a such. So basically - the word uppity can't be used in this situation because the person acting in such an uppity was is black?
Because that's exactly how he was acting. He was being a snobby, elitist, educated prick. The whole thing smells of Gates whipping out the "don't you know who I am?" line that "famous" people like to use when they're not getting the royal treatment the feel they deserve. He even went so far as to complete the set by asking for the cop's badge # - which is law enforcement for "Let me speak to your manager". The fact that he is black just allows a larger group of people to be sympathetic to his version of the story. Oh - and then we throw in the cane bit :eyeroll:
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Chazwozel
redthirtyone said:
...or he was exhausted from an almost 24 hour long day of travel from China, had to bust open his front door, and then deal with the embarrassment of getting hounded by a cop for longer than required.
Tell me, please, tell me that this would be even remotely the same issue if Gates was white? The cop would have left two seconds after being told that Gates lives there.
Stop acting like it's unknown. It's on the front page when you google "uppity definition".
And yes, uppity is a poor choice of word considering his race. That's what a thesaurus is for. The word having a different connotation when referencing a black man as opposed to a white man isn't my making.
Your troll baiting is duly noted, though.
And yes, uppity is a poor choice of word considering his race. That's what a thesaurus is for. The word having a different connotation when referencing a black man as opposed to a white man isn't my making.
Your troll baiting is duly noted, though.
No he's just pointing out how comparing what would have happened if Gates was white is like comparing Apples and Oranges because Gates would have acted completely differently if he was white.Krisken said:
Maybe the cop would have acted differently maybe he wouldn't have but Gates wouldn't have acted the way he did.
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Chazwozel
Dubyamn said:
Yeah those wacky black people and their sense of self worth and dignity. :eyeroll: Gotta hate when they stand up for themselves and get all 'uppity'.
Oh please wtf-ever. I've been around the several incarnations of this forum for years now and hardly ever post, but this one instance makes me a troll now.Krisken said:
Point being - I live in KY. Not the heart of the south but close enough to catch some racial sensitivity, and despite not having heard the term in a while, when I hear the term "uppity", regardless of the context, my mind does not go straight where yours (and apparently a few others) go. Apparently in the Match Game that you guys are playing, the $1000 response is the n-word. There's a lot more words that have been paired over the years with that term, are we forbidden from using those too? Point being that Zappit made a comment, and because of a connotation that he was unaware of - due to some bigoted crusty old white boys in the dark past - is made to feel like a shitty racist. Hell he's even fucking apologizing for it. Good call on his part however, shouldn't be necessary, but good call.
Somewhere up there this last line got attributed to me - anyways. I don't care how exhausted, tired or frustrated he was. He is supposedly well-educated enough to know his place. A cop shows up and says he's investigating a call for a possible break-in, you cooperate with him to rectify the situation, and then you thank him for making the trip over. You DON'T however, start accusing the man of racism. From the accounts I've read, the first time the officer saw Gates in person was when Gates finally opened the door after several requests and said "why? because I'm a black man in america?"Chazwozel said:
and THERE it is. :eyeroll:Cat said:
The underlying bit of it all. It is a thankless job. Nobody WANTS to see the police. The only time anybody's ever happy to see a cop is when something bad has already happened or is about to. Then you draw the short straw and get a call to go investigate a possible break-in at a residence, and some guy who doesn't know you from Adam goes off on you and calls you a racist. Next you know you're national news. I feel bad for the guy, because Gates & his lawyer are not going to let this go away like it should, and as we see quite often, money & prestige get you lots of things in the legal world. I'm sure it will be terribly difficult for Gates' team to find some young black kids to testify that the cop is racist. It doesn't help that the mayor fell all over herself to apologize to Gates in the early going.
I hope that they can quickly get past it all to the part about the three of them having a beer on the white house lawn.
Personally, I'm far more concerned that a man, whatever his race, can be arrested for, apparently, just yelling on his own property, and then having cops, various media outlets, and individuals line up and say the arrest was the proper procedure.redthirtyone said:
If the cop gave him a fine for being noisy than this would have just been funny, but the arrest really rubs me the wrong way, the more I read about it.
Was there any indication whatsoever of physical or about-to-be physical altercation? Did Gates make any kind of threatening statement?
If Cambridge police are allowed to arrest people because their moms got insulted, I wouldn't want them as school traffic monitors.
Conor Friedersdorf makes a very fair point about perspective.
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/t ... about.html
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/t ... about.html
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Chazwozel
redthirtyone said:
Damn!Fake outrage? Really? I don't care how often you post. I was referring to this...redthirtyone said:
However, lets ignore this stupidity and hop into what's actually interesting, ok?redthirtyone said:
Nobody called Zappit racist. Hell, if you bothered to read my posts instead of going super rage you would have seen I specifically said that I understood it was probably a word used without any thought to the connotation. It's ok, it's hard to understand the difference between the "What you are" and the "What you said" argument. It's easy to get the two mixed up.redthirtyone said:
I wasn't looking for an apology, and I should have sent a PM just to let him know about it.
What I will not agree with is that racism is somehow in the past. It isn't. It's silly to even assert that it is.
I think what I find saddest is that you are insistent in trying to frame this as some sort of free speech debate. Like being aware of a words negative meaning and being made aware of it is somehow an asshole maneuver. I never asked for the banning of a word. I simply asked for understanding of it's common perceived context.
But who knows. You're from Kentucky, where racism is apparently dying out.
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Le Quack
Its my opinion that cops can go fuck themselves.
But thats just me. Go pres Obama.
Even if the cops weren't in the wrong in this case, no cop is innocent.
But thats just me. Go pres Obama.
Even if the cops weren't in the wrong in this case, no cop is innocent.
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Chibibar
it all boils down to two people SHOULD have acted properly.
We have a professor who is well educated (Harvard Professor no less. When people say Harvard University, most people would think these are well educated or rich
)
We have a police office with GREAT service record and TEACH racial profiling.
The situation was pretty much the "worst case" scenario that both could have done (well.. it could have lead to a gun fight but at least verbally)
The officer should have given a ticket to Gates for being an ass and disturbing the peace. The officer could have just wrote down his name and badge number and hand to the guy.
The professor should have a cooler head cause he had to deal with college student. Yes, he was on a week long trip and just got home, had to break into his own home due to a broken door BUT that shouldn't be nothing compare the stuff he gets at school.
Basically, both of them show the "worst" light in this situation and kinda escalate from there. I hope that Pride doesn't get the better of each of the them and just forgive and forget and move on and have that beer with the President (hell, I would just drop anything to get that chance)
We have a professor who is well educated (Harvard Professor no less. When people say Harvard University, most people would think these are well educated or rich
)We have a police office with GREAT service record and TEACH racial profiling.
The situation was pretty much the "worst case" scenario that both could have done (well.. it could have lead to a gun fight but at least verbally)
The officer should have given a ticket to Gates for being an ass and disturbing the peace. The officer could have just wrote down his name and badge number and hand to the guy.
The professor should have a cooler head cause he had to deal with college student. Yes, he was on a week long trip and just got home, had to break into his own home due to a broken door BUT that shouldn't be nothing compare the stuff he gets at school.
Basically, both of them show the "worst" light in this situation and kinda escalate from there. I hope that Pride doesn't get the better of each of the them and just forgive and forget and move on and have that beer with the President (hell, I would just drop anything to get that chance)
He's clearly talking about original sin.Espy said:
I say uppity all the time, mostly to my employees. Don't get all uppity. UPPITY UPPITY.
I don't think it is the universally reviled racist epithet that you seem to perceive it to be.
As for those who continue to defend the professor, despite a complete lack of any kind of witness statements or other evidence to support him, well it just proves another theory of mine. I call it the ''Liberals can't be wrong effect.'' I first postulated this theory when Clinton was in office and was being harangued for porking a bunch of nasty skanks and then lying about it. To the nation.
Basically, conservatives pile on the evidence, logic and facts, while libs insert their heads firmly in their asses and say ''NUH UH! NUH UH! NUH UH!''
This particular phenomenon has taken on epic proportions since Buttcrack Obama hit the scene. Like a parent's favored child, he can do no wrong. Similarly, those supporting the UPPITY professor will never admit that he might be wrong, even if and when the recordings of him screaming and insulting the officer's mother (in a most UPPITY fashion) are released to the public.
He was in the wrong. WAY in the wrong, by any reckoning. But that won't stop you from charging to his UPPITY defense will it?
UPPITY UPPITY UPPITY UPPITY
I don't think it is the universally reviled racist epithet that you seem to perceive it to be.
As for those who continue to defend the professor, despite a complete lack of any kind of witness statements or other evidence to support him, well it just proves another theory of mine. I call it the ''Liberals can't be wrong effect.'' I first postulated this theory when Clinton was in office and was being harangued for porking a bunch of nasty skanks and then lying about it. To the nation.
Basically, conservatives pile on the evidence, logic and facts, while libs insert their heads firmly in their asses and say ''NUH UH! NUH UH! NUH UH!''
This particular phenomenon has taken on epic proportions since Buttcrack Obama hit the scene. Like a parent's favored child, he can do no wrong. Similarly, those supporting the UPPITY professor will never admit that he might be wrong, even if and when the recordings of him screaming and insulting the officer's mother (in a most UPPITY fashion) are released to the public.
He was in the wrong. WAY in the wrong, by any reckoning. But that won't stop you from charging to his UPPITY defense will it?
UPPITY UPPITY UPPITY UPPITY
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