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Desktops Obsolete in 3 Years
#1
ThatNickGuy
ThatNickGuy
http://ca.tech.yahoo.com/blogs/the_working_guy/rss/article/4379
I'm not sure if I buy this, entirely, but it's somewhat reasonable. I mean, the phones we can get now are greatly more powerful than the clunky, noisy machines that I used to own. Hell, my laptop is probably about 1,000 times more powerful than my first computer (if not likely more). Sony even announced recently that they're working on a PSP-style of cell phone that has just as great gaming capability.
But for the iPhone or smart phones to replace computers altogether? I don't see it happening. I can't imagine writing a story, chatting, doing homework, etc, on a phone. Maybe I'm just old fashioned. I like using a phone for communicating and that's it. It took me some time just to accept texting.
Still, as a gradually aging old-foggey, I look at how technology has made huge leaps and bounds and I'm still astounded at some of the things we can do, today.
I'm not sure if I buy this, entirely, but it's somewhat reasonable. I mean, the phones we can get now are greatly more powerful than the clunky, noisy machines that I used to own. Hell, my laptop is probably about 1,000 times more powerful than my first computer (if not likely more). Sony even announced recently that they're working on a PSP-style of cell phone that has just as great gaming capability.
But for the iPhone or smart phones to replace computers altogether? I don't see it happening. I can't imagine writing a story, chatting, doing homework, etc, on a phone. Maybe I'm just old fashioned. I like using a phone for communicating and that's it. It took me some time just to accept texting.
Still, as a gradually aging old-foggey, I look at how technology has made huge leaps and bounds and I'm still astounded at some of the things we can do, today.
#2
makare
makare
What the hell no... no way is a phone going to replace my 24 inch screen. I love it so 
#3
sixpackshaker
sixpackshaker
I can just imagine managing my inventory spread sheets at work on a 4 inch screen.
#4
Rob King
Rob King
In three years, I hope my mobile device is something roughly akin to an iPad that is capable of making and taking phone calls, and functions as a full computer.
#5
Espy
Espy
imagine having an iphone or something that when you sit at your desk you plug into your 40 inch screen and it has the power of my Mac Pro here today. That I can get behind.
#6
Bowielee
Bowielee
Laptops still won't beat PCs when it comes to gaming, for the most part. If all I used my PC for was surfing the net, working on MS Office and the occasional game of Peggle, or WoW, then I wouldn't need it. But the most advanced graphics cards always come out for the PC and suck too much juice for the average laptop.
#7
Rob King
Rob King
Absolutely.
As it stands, I think manufacturers will want two separate devices so they can sell two complete computers, and then a cloud service, as opposed to one wicked-awesome device, which is able to plug into your beautiful monitor, and bypass the need for any real-estate on the cloud.
As it stands, I think manufacturers will want two separate devices so they can sell two complete computers, and then a cloud service, as opposed to one wicked-awesome device, which is able to plug into your beautiful monitor, and bypass the need for any real-estate on the cloud.
#8
Espy
Espy
Well, I agree that it is in the best interest for them to sell you multiple things. So if your monitor had the extra ram and HD space and you plugged your phone into it then bam, they just sold you a desktop and a portable and its convenient for you. The cloud thing still has a looooooong way to go before people and business are going to start really trusting it and I think some never will.
#9
Math242
Math242
i had the same gut reaction than Makare
#10
bhamv3
bhamv3
The article is written from the perspective of Internet use, isn't it? So for surfing, email, etc, I could easily see mobile devices replacing desktops as the platform of choice.
For work, gaming and artistic uses, though, I can't see mobile devices ever winning out. Heck, one of the reasons people love PCs is because they're highly customizable; you can pick and choose what motherboards, processors, graphics cards etc to use. Can't do that on an iPhone.
For work, gaming and artistic uses, though, I can't see mobile devices ever winning out. Heck, one of the reasons people love PCs is because they're highly customizable; you can pick and choose what motherboards, processors, graphics cards etc to use. Can't do that on an iPhone.
#11
Chazwozel
---------- Post added at 06:43 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:42 AM ----------
Sorry to break it to your but most of the world doesn't exclusively use PC's for gaming.
Chazwozel
Word. Bluetooth key board and mouse and you're all set. I can see this, not in three years, but eventually. In like 10 to 15 years I can see everyone having to carry around a computer with themselves. In like 100 years, those computers will probably be integrated someone how into our bodies. CYBORGS!imagine having an iphone or something that when you sit at your desk you plug into your 40 inch screen and it has the power of my Mac Pro here today. That I can get behind.
---------- Post added at 06:43 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:42 AM ----------
The article is written from the perspective of Internet use, isn't it? So for surfing, email, etc, I could easily see mobile devices replacing desktops as the platform of choice.
For work, gaming and artistic uses, though, I can't see mobile devices ever winning out. Heck, one of the reasons people love PCs is because they're highly customizable; you can pick and choose what motherboards, processors, graphics cards etc to use. Can't do that on an iPhone.
Sorry to break it to your but most of the world doesn't exclusively use PC's for gaming.
#12
bhamv3
So?
bhamv3
Yes, that is true.Sorry to break it to your but most of the world doesn't exclusively use PC's for gaming.
So?
#13
MindDetective
MindDetective
I'm with the shark and the baby on this one. The future will be pocket computers that dock into your system at work and home.
#14
fade
fade
Yeah, I may have to agree with google on this one. I kind of got the impression, though, that they were talking about consumer computers, not workplace computers.
#15
Seraphyn
That is the future of computing if you ask me.
Seraphyn
That is the future of computing if you ask me.
#16
SpecialKO
SpecialKO
If we're talking about the consumer market, I agree with Google on this one. Desktop PCs for the average consumer only have one current advantage over mobile devices of comparable capabilities, which is price, and that's really disappearing as both mobile technology catches up and consumer tastes change.
It used to be that home docking stations for laptops were fairly rare, since the good ones were $$$, and the bad ones were crappy USB hubs. But so many devices are network accessible now that I feel like we're very close to having the family raid enclosure replace the family PC. Not for a few years, certainly, but closer and closer.
It used to be that home docking stations for laptops were fairly rare, since the good ones were $$$, and the bad ones were crappy USB hubs. But so many devices are network accessible now that I feel like we're very close to having the family raid enclosure replace the family PC. Not for a few years, certainly, but closer and closer.
#17
makare
makare
I love my desktop because the keyboard isnt attached to the screen and it isnt one unit. I have a laptop and it is great for school but other than that it is pretty meh for me.
#18
@Li3n
BTW, i remember hearing that netbooks are the ones in trouble... and desktops have always been about way more then surfing the web or playing games... why do you think people in 3rd world countries have PC's to pirate on?! Because it's a useful tool that can help you make money... unless handheld devices actually become powerful enough to do everything while connected to a 24" screen they won't get replaced, and if that happens they'll be PC's in a smaller case.
Still, a dedicated card (video, audio etc) would still be more efficient even at low prices, so i doubt this will happen.
@Li3n
So true...I love my desktop because the keyboard isnt attached to the screen and it isnt one unit. I have a laptop and it is great for school but other than that it is pretty meh for me.
BTW, i remember hearing that netbooks are the ones in trouble... and desktops have always been about way more then surfing the web or playing games... why do you think people in 3rd world countries have PC's to pirate on?! Because it's a useful tool that can help you make money... unless handheld devices actually become powerful enough to do everything while connected to a 24" screen they won't get replaced, and if that happens they'll be PC's in a smaller case.
Still, a dedicated card (video, audio etc) would still be more efficient even at low prices, so i doubt this will happen.
#19
Shegokigo
Shegokigo
No. :humph:
#20
Frankie Williamson
Frankie Williamson
It doesn't matter how neat computers get in the next 20 years. I'll still be using intranet software written in the fucking mid 90's that still takes hours to get me the information I request. I hate the government.
#21
PatrThom
--Patrick
PS - Welcome back, Verdant Vixen.
PatrThom
Amen. When handhelds and portables have the power of today's desktops, there will still be a subset of users (hobbyists, gamers, armchair scientists, college students) who will want the amount of power that can be squeezed into the volume of an ATX case. If my laptop had a quad-core dual-gpu with a pair of SSDs in a RAID 0 and can still get 6-8hrs of battery life, that means tech will have advanced to the point that my desktop could probably have 2 x 8-core cpus each with its own on-board 2GB RAM and built-in GPU running 16-way SLI/XFire. And that would be something I would happily wait for by the mailbox about 30 seconds after clicking 'Confirm' on NewEgg's order page. And that'd just be the boards with integrated graphics!No. :humph:
--Patrick
PS - Welcome back, Verdant Vixen.
#22
Espy
Espy
I don't really think it's as simple as yes or no, I think it's a matter of evolution. Computer will get smaller and more convenient, even the most powerful ones. Sure super nerds will still want their giant case with all their neon lights and blahblahblah, but for most users, even gamers, smaller computers will be more than enough for what they need and as long they can plug into a giant monitor, then who cares?
#23
MindDetective
MindDetective
Once upon a time, cars were a hobby. Obviously they still are to some people but it isn't the phenomenon it once was. They became highly engineered, convenient tools for the average person. Cars are still cool, but most people drive a sedan, coupe, van, SUV, or pickup. They don't drive the sports cars or worry about getting as much power as they can out of their vehicle. That's what is next for computers. Sure, ultra powerful desktops will still be around and there will be a sizable group that uses them but they won't be the norm, I think, as computers turn into an every day convenience, streamlined for everyman. Most people won't need the desktop anymore and they might see the option to buy it but will instead decide to not waste their money.
#24
@Li3n
And the average consumer already buys pre-assembled PC's.
@Li3n
If by hobby you mean they had to be made on at a time because there wasn't any such thing as an assembly line, then yeah...Once upon a time, cars were a hobby.
And the average consumer already buys pre-assembled PC's.
#25
Rob King
Rob King
I think the nail is in a coma, you hit it so hard on the head.Once upon a time, cars were a hobby. Obviously they still are to some people but it isn't the phenomenon it once was. They became highly engineered, convenient tools for the average person. Cars are still cool, but most people drive a sedan, coupe, van, SUV, or pickup. They don't drive the sports cars or worry about getting as much power as they can out of their vehicle. That's what is next for computers. Sure, ultra powerful desktops will still be around and there will be a sizable group that uses them but they won't be the norm, I think, as computers turn into an every day convenience, streamlined for everyman. Most people won't need the desktop anymore and they might see the option to buy it but will instead decide to not waste their money.
#26
@Li3n
@Li3n
Except that that's already the case, gaming rigs being only a small % of the number of PC's out there...
#27
Espy
Espy
Which only furthers the point that we are already well on the path to smaller computers, etc.Except that that's already the case, gaming rigs being only a small % of the number of PC's out there...
#28
@Li3n
@Li3n
Except that that's been the case ever since at least teh 90's... this being more like switching to electric cars or something...
#29
Rob King
Rob King
Not a good analog.
Gas cars -> Electric cars
is a bigger transition than
10 lb computer + cellphone -> 4 lb computer + cellphone -> 4 lb computer + smartphone -> .5 lb all-in-one-device -> whatever the future dreams up
Gas cars -> Electric cars
is a bigger transition than
10 lb computer + cellphone -> 4 lb computer + cellphone -> 4 lb computer + smartphone -> .5 lb all-in-one-device -> whatever the future dreams up
#30
@Li3n
@Li3n
I don't know, all-in-one-device seems about as big as simply changing what amounts to the type of baterry in your car...Not a good analog.
Gas cars -> Electric cars
is a bigger transition than
10 lb computer + cellphone -> 4 lb computer + cellphone -> 4 lb computer + smartphone -> .5 lb all-in-one-device -> whatever the future dreams up
#31
Rob King
One of us doesn't understand electric cars, and I think it might be me.
Rob King
I don't know, all-in-one-device seems about as big as simply changing what amounts to the type of baterry in your car...[/QUOTE]Not a good analog.
Gas cars -> Electric cars
is a bigger transition than
10 lb computer + cellphone -> 4 lb computer + cellphone -> 4 lb computer + smartphone -> .5 lb all-in-one-device -> whatever the future dreams up
One of us doesn't understand electric cars, and I think it might be me.
#32
@Li3n
@Li3n
It's a car that uses an electric battery (i don't think they have generators yet) instead of burning gas. I'm pretty sure gas cars today use electricity to make most car function work, so they're not that different.
Although i guess i should have said hybrids...
Although i guess i should have said hybrids...
#33
Rob King
Rob King
Ok, so ... I do understand, apparently. But I would have defined a gas engine powering your car, vs. having an electric motor power your car as a big difference, even IF the stereo, headlights, power locks, etc on both make use of electricity.
But this is a bit far from the point by now anyhow.
But this is a bit far from the point by now anyhow.
#34
@Li3n
@Li3n
Actually i'm pretty sure modern cars are fly-by-wire or whatever you call it. And also, there's no reason why you couldn't have a mechanical system with an electrical motor... the only thing truly revolutionary would be an electrical motor that is efficient enough.
A small device with integrated parts that can do anything your desktop can sounds about the same to me.
A small device with integrated parts that can do anything your desktop can sounds about the same to me.
#35
SpecialKO
SpecialKO
I think it's less what the exact capabilities of specs are, and more capability of fulfilling the need while providing additional benefits.
And I believe that applies to both PCs and cars.
And I believe that applies to both PCs and cars.
#36
Chazwozel
I really don't feel like being a dick today, but for some reason I feel that I'm getting dumber reading some of your posts today.
Chazwozel
Actually i'm pretty sure modern cars are fly-by-wire or whatever you call it. And also, there's no reason why you couldn't have a mechanical system with an electrical motor... the only thing truly revolutionary would be an electrical motor that is efficient enough.
A small device with integrated parts that can do anything your desktop can sounds about the same to me.
I really don't feel like being a dick today, but for some reason I feel that I'm getting dumber reading some of your posts today.
#37
Chibibar
Chibibar
Desktop PC might be "obsolete" in 3 years for COMMON users.
Common users = web surfer, spread sheet users, email, phone use, video viewing.
Uncommon users = heavy gaming. iPhone can play lots of game, but it doesn't quite beat the PC (in my book) even portable gaming devices, PC can do a whole lot more. A PC contain many high level components would be VERY expensive (even in 3 years) to put in small devices. Heck, now-a-days people use dual video card. That is hard with a laptop.
Common users = web surfer, spread sheet users, email, phone use, video viewing.
Uncommon users = heavy gaming. iPhone can play lots of game, but it doesn't quite beat the PC (in my book) even portable gaming devices, PC can do a whole lot more. A PC contain many high level components would be VERY expensive (even in 3 years) to put in small devices. Heck, now-a-days people use dual video card. That is hard with a laptop.
#38
crono1224
crono1224
Also what about heavy processing things like video editing? I agree that for common users sure the desktop is already pretty obsolete for most of them espcially considering what you can do on the smart phones today. But for people who use their computers for hardcore gaming, video/picture editing, and things of that nature I feel you aren't going to either have the ability to or really enjoy it on a mobile device.
#39
Chibibar
not to mention cooling and CPU you can do on a tower desktop.
Chibibar
Yup. cause even if the mobile/portable devices can get powerful (even laptops) the desktop series are even MORE powerful. I don't think a laptop (even Alienware level) can't really beat a powerhouse desktop (I don't know a laptop with dual video card yet but I haven't keep up) also the memory stick limitation on laptopAlso what about heavy processing things like video editing? I agree that for common users sure the desktop is already pretty obsolete for most of them espcially considering what you can do on the smart phones today. But for people who use their computers for hardcore gaming, video/picture editing, and things of that nature I feel you aren't going to either have the ability to or really enjoy it on a mobile device.
not to mention cooling and CPU you can do on a tower desktop.
#40
crono1224
not to mention cooling and CPU you can do on a tower desktop.[/QUOTE]
Plus at a certain point wouldn't it be just as inconvient to carry around as a PC, I mean it would weigh like 15 pounds, need to be plugged into the wall, and if you wanted double monitors well....
crono1224
Yup. cause even if the mobile/portable devices can get powerful (even laptops) the desktop series are even MORE powerful. I don't think a laptop (even Alienware level) can't really beat a powerhouse desktop (I don't know a laptop with dual video card yet but I haven't keep up) also the memory stick limitation on laptopAlso what about heavy processing things like video editing? I agree that for common users sure the desktop is already pretty obsolete for most of them espcially considering what you can do on the smart phones today. But for people who use their computers for hardcore gaming, video/picture editing, and things of that nature I feel you aren't going to either have the ability to or really enjoy it on a mobile device.
not to mention cooling and CPU you can do on a tower desktop.[/QUOTE]
Plus at a certain point wouldn't it be just as inconvient to carry around as a PC, I mean it would weigh like 15 pounds, need to be plugged into the wall, and if you wanted double monitors well....
#41
drawn_inward
drawn_inward
Forget plugging in. It'll all be wireless. The electricity, the internet, keyboard/mouse, etc. You'll just have the phone in your pocket or sitting on the desk, and you'll type with a regular keyboard and use a monitor. The screen on the phone will be used while on the go.imagine having an iphone or something that when you sit at your desk you plug into your 40 inch screen and it has the power of my Mac Pro here today. That I can get behind.
#42
Chazwozel
I can't wait for wireless electricity.
Chazwozel
Forget plugging in. It'll all be wireless. The electricity, the internet, keyboard/mouse, etc. You'll just have the phone in your pocket or sitting on the desk, and you'll type with a regular keyboard and use a monitor. The screen on the phone will be used while on the go.[/QUOTE]imagine having an iphone or something that when you sit at your desk you plug into your 40 inch screen and it has the power of my Mac Pro here today. That I can get behind.
I can't wait for wireless electricity.
#43
Rovewin
I can't wait for wireless electricity.[/QUOTE]
They already have those cordless charging stations. But I can imagine something more along the lines of those self winding watches if we can get the power requirements low enough
Rovewin
Forget plugging in. It'll all be wireless. The electricity, the internet, keyboard/mouse, etc. You'll just have the phone in your pocket or sitting on the desk, and you'll type with a regular keyboard and use a monitor. The screen on the phone will be used while on the go.[/QUOTE]imagine having an iphone or something that when you sit at your desk you plug into your 40 inch screen and it has the power of my Mac Pro here today. That I can get behind.
I can't wait for wireless electricity.[/QUOTE]
They already have those cordless charging stations. But I can imagine something more along the lines of those self winding watches if we can get the power requirements low enough
#44
strawman
Baking is still mechanical, except in regenerative braking systems where it's a hybrid - there's a few inches of pressing the brake where it doesn't engage the mechanical brakes, but engages the electronic regenerative braking, then it hits the mechanical braking if you press harder. If the power goes out, the mechanical braking still works.
Gas is mostly electronic throttle these days - not mechanical at all, and is the core of Toyota's problems (both the pedal, the floormats, and now the software are shown to be at fault).
But the big two - braking and steering, are still mechanical linkages.
There are some larger vehicles (think semi tractors meant to haul 40+ foot trailers) that have electronic braking (since it's already decoupled by the hydraulic system) that actually perform better than the older style because they account for overall vehicle stability control - which is fun on a big rig.
Newer cars with advanced stability control can actuate the brakes for you, on a per-wheel basis, but again - the brake pedal actually forces fluid into the brake cylinders if all else fails, so it's still a mechanical system.
Eventually we'll get there, but it'll be a long slow slog, and given the setback that Toyota has shown with one relatively simple system, we're probably going to take longer to get there than we otherwise would have.
strawman
Steering is still mechanical (wth power assist, but if that goes out the linkages are still mechanical).Actually i'm pretty sure modern cars are fly-by-wire or whatever you call it.
Baking is still mechanical, except in regenerative braking systems where it's a hybrid - there's a few inches of pressing the brake where it doesn't engage the mechanical brakes, but engages the electronic regenerative braking, then it hits the mechanical braking if you press harder. If the power goes out, the mechanical braking still works.
Gas is mostly electronic throttle these days - not mechanical at all, and is the core of Toyota's problems (both the pedal, the floormats, and now the software are shown to be at fault).
But the big two - braking and steering, are still mechanical linkages.
There are some larger vehicles (think semi tractors meant to haul 40+ foot trailers) that have electronic braking (since it's already decoupled by the hydraulic system) that actually perform better than the older style because they account for overall vehicle stability control - which is fun on a big rig.
Newer cars with advanced stability control can actuate the brakes for you, on a per-wheel basis, but again - the brake pedal actually forces fluid into the brake cylinders if all else fails, so it's still a mechanical system.
Eventually we'll get there, but it'll be a long slow slog, and given the setback that Toyota has shown with one relatively simple system, we're probably going to take longer to get there than we otherwise would have.
#45
@Li3n
@Li3n
But neither breaking or steering are directly connected to the engine itself... i guess fly-by-wire was the wrong word, but i couldn't think of anything better.
And frankly mechanical with electronic assist it probably a better system safety wise.
And frankly mechanical with electronic assist it probably a better system safety wise.
Somehow i doubt it will be as efficient as pluging-in... but i guess it will work with a computer that isn't a power hog...I can't wait for wireless electricity.
So it's working...I really don't feel like being a dick today, but for some reason I feel that I'm getting dumber reading some of your posts today.
#46
Chibibar
Chibibar
well.. it might not be "obsolete" but Window XP might not be able to recognize the new HDD in 2011
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8557144.stm
changing fromg 512 byte to 4k.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8557144.stm
changing fromg 512 byte to 4k.
#47
Null
Null
I have never had a laptop. I hate texting. I barely use my cellphone as is. I do all my writing on a desktop, and in three years I'll still probably be using the same one I've had since 2001.
#48
sixpackshaker
sixpackshaker
And in 3 years, a smart phone could be as powerful as your 14yo desktop.
#49
Null
Null
That's fantastic, but I still won't have or use one.And in 3 years, a smart phone could be as powerful as your 14yo desktop.
#50
sixpackshaker
I agree, but if you go to upgrade later, it might not be a bad way to go.
sixpackshaker
That's fantastic, but I still won't have or use one.[/QUOTE]And in 3 years, a smart phone could be as powerful as your 14yo desktop.
I agree, but if you go to upgrade later, it might not be a bad way to go.
#51
MindDetective
MindDetective
I briefly envisioned a smoky room with blades of light slicing through the blinds as you pecked away at a typewriter. The carriage return triggers and slides back to home with a thunk. You stop, exhale slowly a stream of smoke and then stub the cigarette out on the scarred, blackened corner of your desk. After a long delay, you begin clacking away at the keys again.I have never had a laptop. I hate texting. I barely use my cellphone as is. I do all my writing on a desktop, and in three years I'll still probably be using the same one I've had since 2001.
#52
Covar
Covar
The Desktop is already on the way out. For the Average consumer the laptop (and now the netbooks) are capable of fulfilling their needs, and Web applications and cloud computing is only going upward.
This is even occurring in the workplace. My workplace machine is a laptop, capable of doing everything I need to perform my job. I'm also allowed a large network drive for storing large files, and have access to virtual machines for cases where I need greater computing power.
This is even occurring in the workplace. My workplace machine is a laptop, capable of doing everything I need to perform my job. I'm also allowed a large network drive for storing large files, and have access to virtual machines for cases where I need greater computing power.
#53
GasBandit
GasBandit
Until you can replace the video card in your laptop, the desktop will still rule PC gaming. That said, PC Gaming is still taking its lumps... but there will always be a desktop computer so long as laptops don't have modular, replacable (read: upgradable) video cards.
#54
MindDetective
MindDetective
"obsolete" is definitely too strong of a word here. I would say the desktop will lose its dominance as a computing device.
#55
GasBandit
GasBandit
Oh, and I can't really see any self-respecting geek building a beowulf cluster out of laptops.
#56
Chazwozel
Uh, My 2005 laptop has a GeForceGO 6600 in it that I can swap out for a higher end card...
---------- Post added at 02:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:45 PM ----------
.
Chazwozel
Until you can replace the video card in your laptop, the desktop will still rule PC gaming. That said, PC Gaming is still taking its lumps... but there will always be a desktop computer so long as laptops don't have modular, replacable (read: upgradable) video cards.
Uh, My 2005 laptop has a GeForceGO 6600 in it that I can swap out for a higher end card...
---------- Post added at 02:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:45 PM ----------
I briefly envisioned a smoky room with blades of light slicing through the blinds as you pecked away at a typewriter. The carriage return triggers and slides back to home with a thunk. You stop, exhale slowly a stream of smoke and then stub the cigarette out on the scarred, blackened corner of your desk. After a long delay, you begin clacking away at the keys again.[/QUOTE]I have never had a laptop. I hate texting. I barely use my cellphone as is. I do all my writing on a desktop, and in three years I'll still probably be using the same one I've had since 2001.
#57
GasBandit
Uh, My 2005 laptop has a GeForceGO 6600 in it that I can swap out for a higher end card...[/QUOTE]
Two things:
1) While not unheard of, that's still an extremely rare feature, and
2) it's still a mobile gpu, which is like a budget PC video card with a high end price.
Yours is the exception that pretty much proves the rule. The vast, vast majority of notebooks don't let you upgrade, and whether they do or not, the mobile cards can't hold a candle to the desktop cards without increasing price by hundreds of percent.
GasBandit
Until you can replace the video card in your laptop, the desktop will still rule PC gaming. That said, PC Gaming is still taking its lumps... but there will always be a desktop computer so long as laptops don't have modular, replacable (read: upgradable) video cards.
Uh, My 2005 laptop has a GeForceGO 6600 in it that I can swap out for a higher end card...[/QUOTE]
Two things:
1) While not unheard of, that's still an extremely rare feature, and
2) it's still a mobile gpu, which is like a budget PC video card with a high end price.
Yours is the exception that pretty much proves the rule. The vast, vast majority of notebooks don't let you upgrade, and whether they do or not, the mobile cards can't hold a candle to the desktop cards without increasing price by hundreds of percent.
#58
Chazwozel
Uh, My 2005 laptop has a GeForceGO 6600 in it that I can swap out for a higher end card...[/QUOTE]
Two things:
1) While not unheard of, that's still an extremely rare feature, and
2) it's still a mobile gpu, which is like a budget PC video card with a high end price.
Yours is the exception that pretty much proves the rule. The vast, vast majority of notebooks don't let you upgrade, and whether they do or not, the mobile cards can't hold a candle to the desktop cards without increasing price by hundreds of percent.[/QUOTE]
The vast, vast majority of PC's have integrated video cards or really shitty ones.
I do believe that top end gaming rigs are also marked much higher than the 'standard' web browsing PC.
As to holding a candle: Dual 1GB ATI Radeon™ Mobility HD 4870 in CrossfireX™ That's available on an Alienware Laptop. Way better than my PC.
Chazwozel
Until you can replace the video card in your laptop, the desktop will still rule PC gaming. That said, PC Gaming is still taking its lumps... but there will always be a desktop computer so long as laptops don't have modular, replacable (read: upgradable) video cards.
Uh, My 2005 laptop has a GeForceGO 6600 in it that I can swap out for a higher end card...[/QUOTE]
Two things:
1) While not unheard of, that's still an extremely rare feature, and
2) it's still a mobile gpu, which is like a budget PC video card with a high end price.
Yours is the exception that pretty much proves the rule. The vast, vast majority of notebooks don't let you upgrade, and whether they do or not, the mobile cards can't hold a candle to the desktop cards without increasing price by hundreds of percent.[/QUOTE]
The vast, vast majority of PC's have integrated video cards or really shitty ones.
I do believe that top end gaming rigs are also marked much higher than the 'standard' web browsing PC.
As to holding a candle: Dual 1GB ATI Radeon™ Mobility HD 4870 in CrossfireX™ That's available on an Alienware Laptop. Way better than my PC.
#59
@Li3n
@Li3n
Aren't laptops still more expensive then a desktop equivalent?!
#60
makare
makare
I would think so. My friend has an amazing laptop which I covet unabashedly. It cost 3000 dollars. I think a desktop that could do the same things would have been half that. But I could be wrong, I have to get a lot of help getting a computer together because I often don't know anything about it.
#61
Chazwozel
Chazwozel
The price of laptops revolves around the price of the larger (easier to manufacturer) PC parts. If the retailers were to change standards (and they will just like the tower craze) to something portable like a smartphone/22 inch monitor combo the prices would drop. Blu-Ray is expensive as hell compared to DvD. Wait for DvD to phase out and watch Blu-Ray drop to the same cost.I would think so. My friend has an amazing laptop which I covet unabashedly. It cost 3000 dollars. I think a desktop that could do the same things would have been half that. But I could be wrong, I have to get a lot of help getting a computer together because I often don't know anything about it.
#62
GasBandit
Uh, My 2005 laptop has a GeForceGO 6600 in it that I can swap out for a higher end card...[/QUOTE]
Two things:
1) While not unheard of, that's still an extremely rare feature, and
2) it's still a mobile gpu, which is like a budget PC video card with a high end price.
Yours is the exception that pretty much proves the rule. The vast, vast majority of notebooks don't let you upgrade, and whether they do or not, the mobile cards can't hold a candle to the desktop cards without increasing price by hundreds of percent.[/QUOTE]
The vast, vast majority of PC's have integrated video cards or really shitty ones.
I do believe that top end gaming rigs are also marked much higher than the 'standard' web browsing PC.
As to holding a candle: Dual 1GB ATI Radeon™ Mobility HD 4870 in CrossfireX™ That's available on an Alienware Laptop. Way better than my PC.
[/QUOTE]
YOUR PC maybe. And it also costs (googling....the alienware in question is the m17x according to notebookcheck... googling price...) $2500. I built a desktop that can outperform it for under a grand.
As for "most PCs come with onboard crappy video cards," only the low end consumer ones do, and even most every single one of THOSE are upgradable to any card you want.
GasBandit
Until you can replace the video card in your laptop, the desktop will still rule PC gaming. That said, PC Gaming is still taking its lumps... but there will always be a desktop computer so long as laptops don't have modular, replacable (read: upgradable) video cards.
Uh, My 2005 laptop has a GeForceGO 6600 in it that I can swap out for a higher end card...[/QUOTE]
Two things:
1) While not unheard of, that's still an extremely rare feature, and
2) it's still a mobile gpu, which is like a budget PC video card with a high end price.
Yours is the exception that pretty much proves the rule. The vast, vast majority of notebooks don't let you upgrade, and whether they do or not, the mobile cards can't hold a candle to the desktop cards without increasing price by hundreds of percent.[/QUOTE]
The vast, vast majority of PC's have integrated video cards or really shitty ones.
I do believe that top end gaming rigs are also marked much higher than the 'standard' web browsing PC.
As to holding a candle: Dual 1GB ATI Radeon™ Mobility HD 4870 in CrossfireX™ That's available on an Alienware Laptop. Way better than my PC.
[/QUOTE]
YOUR PC maybe. And it also costs (googling....the alienware in question is the m17x according to notebookcheck... googling price...) $2500. I built a desktop that can outperform it for under a grand.
As for "most PCs come with onboard crappy video cards," only the low end consumer ones do, and even most every single one of THOSE are upgradable to any card you want.
#63
Bubble181
Bubble181
I, for one, think not the desktop, but the laptop is on the way out. Smartphones and such will become powerful enough to do anything like surfing you need to get done en route, while at work or whatever, it' s still way cheaper to use desktops.
#64
SpecialKO
Laptops/PDAs/tablets/etc have a huge everyday needs advantage in being mobile. That's always been their selling point, and now they've actually caught up to multimedia/office work/internet needs in terms of pricing. We've reached the point (again) where the technical capabilities of our computers far out-distances what we actually need them for, only this time it's starting to happen with mobile devices and laptops instead of desktops.
SpecialKO
They are, and that's probably not going to change, but tech equivalency isn't what people actually buy computers for, it's for fulfilling their needs, whether it's office work, homework, mobile computing, playing games/movies/music, etc.Aren't laptops still more expensive then a desktop equivalent?!
Laptops/PDAs/tablets/etc have a huge everyday needs advantage in being mobile. That's always been their selling point, and now they've actually caught up to multimedia/office work/internet needs in terms of pricing. We've reached the point (again) where the technical capabilities of our computers far out-distances what we actually need them for, only this time it's starting to happen with mobile devices and laptops instead of desktops.
#65
Bowielee
Either way, gaming enthusiasts such as myself will be using towers for quite a long time.
Bowielee
This, exactly. I can certainly see the new generation of products like the iPad overriding the laptop market, but for PCs, I have to agree with everything that GB has said. I built my gaming rig for under 1k and it blows any laptops out of the water.I, for one, think not the desktop, but the laptop is on the way out. Smartphones and such will become powerful enough to do anything like surfing you need to get done en route, while at work or whatever, it' s still way cheaper to use desktops.
Either way, gaming enthusiasts such as myself will be using towers for quite a long time.
#66
figmentPez
figmentPez
Those mobile chips in crossfire should just about match a desktop Radeon 4850, which can be had for about $130 or less.As to holding a candle: Dual 1GB ATI Radeon™ Mobility HD 4870 in CrossfireX™ That's available on an Alienware Laptop. Way better than my PC.
#67
Null
I agree, but if you go to upgrade later, it might not be a bad way to go.[/QUOTE]
Yes, it would be a terrible way to go. As I mentioned, I use my computer primarily for writing. I am not typing a 50,000 word piece on a goddamn phone, I don't care how smart the fucking thing is, and I sure as fuck am not going to try and edit that piece on a 4" screen.
Null
That's fantastic, but I still won't have or use one.[/QUOTE]And in 3 years, a smart phone could be as powerful as your 14yo desktop.
I agree, but if you go to upgrade later, it might not be a bad way to go.[/QUOTE]
Yes, it would be a terrible way to go. As I mentioned, I use my computer primarily for writing. I am not typing a 50,000 word piece on a goddamn phone, I don't care how smart the fucking thing is, and I sure as fuck am not going to try and edit that piece on a 4" screen.
#68
@Li3n
@Li3n
Graphical power reaching a ceiling is one of the things i can't wait for... then they won't be able to just rely on having more pixels or crap and will actually have to make games that look good even 5 years after....Laptops/PDAs/tablets/etc have a huge everyday needs advantage in being mobile. That's always been their selling point, and now they've actually caught up to multimedia/office work/internet needs in terms of pricing. We've reached the point (again) where the technical capabilities of our computers far out-distances what we actually need them for, only this time it's starting to happen with mobile devices and laptops instead of desktops.
#69
Chazwozel
Chazwozel
Haha: ITT: Computer nerds who can't let go.
Your argument is akin to saying that 1960's muscle cars will always be the majority of what people drive. The parts are cheaper, the engine is simpler, you can work on it yourself and swap out endless parts to make it faster. Yet, I don't see many Firebirds driving around compared to mainstream Honda sedans.
Your argument is akin to saying that 1960's muscle cars will always be the majority of what people drive. The parts are cheaper, the engine is simpler, you can work on it yourself and swap out endless parts to make it faster. Yet, I don't see many Firebirds driving around compared to mainstream Honda sedans.
#70
@Li3n
@Li3n
Do Honda sedans have heat issues if you place them right on the desk?! I have a few friends who have laptops shut down because of too much heat that way, and one friend even had a laptop fry the processor or something... even after he got one of those coolers you put under them.
And aren't honda's cheaper?! It's not just the parts we're talking about here...
And aren't honda's cheaper?! It's not just the parts we're talking about here...
#71
Bowielee
Bowielee
That's not the point anyone is making at all. The point is, while casual users will more than likely move to laptops or multimedia devices, the market for people currently using tower PCs will still be there.Haha: ITT: Computer nerds who can't let go.
Your argument is akin to saying that 1960's muscle cars will always be the majority of what people drive. The parts are cheaper, the engine is simpler, you can work on it yourself and swap out endless parts to make it faster. Yet, I don't see many Firebirds driving around compared to mainstream Honda sedans.
#72
@Li3n
@Li3n
Except that as laptops are more expensive that's not such a sure thing either.
Frankly i see something more akin to the PS3 (it can do everything etc.), a pre made box with a more custom OS.
Frankly i see something more akin to the PS3 (it can do everything etc.), a pre made box with a more custom OS.
#73
GasBandit
To put your analogy in car terms, what you're saying is that 18 wheelers are going to be obsolete because everybody's going to buy a prius.
GasBandit
Actually, no, those two things are incomparable. And the american electronics sector died out with commodore, philco and zenith. THAT would have been the more appropriate analogue to your cars.Haha: ITT: Computer nerds who can't let go.
Your argument is akin to saying that 1960's muscle cars will always be the majority of what people drive. The parts are cheaper, the engine is simpler, you can work on it yourself and swap out endless parts to make it faster. Yet, I don't see many Firebirds driving around compared to mainstream Honda sedans.
To put your analogy in car terms, what you're saying is that 18 wheelers are going to be obsolete because everybody's going to buy a prius.
#74
sixpackshaker
sixpackshaker
For those of us that lived through the whole, my computer is a year old and is now obsolete time, we will still buy desktops. Old habits die hard. 10 years ago, I'd tell friends that were buying computers to get the second most expensive computer that you can afford. That was just in the hope that it would still be a decent computer in 4-6 years. I just can't see spending large amounts of money for a computer that can barely meet my needs of today. I try to buy with an eye for the future. Hopefully I would have the processing power to handle the "next killer app" that will be out next year.
#75
Bubble181
Bubble181
For offices, and for a lot of people's homes, I, for one, can certainly see a merging of the console and pc market. An apple isn't much different anymore, anyway.
What people -want- is a machine they can use for e-mail, games, some office work, showing pictures to friends, and keeping in touch (friendslists, facebook, whatever). You can do all of those except office work with a PS3. You can do all of those (except for some games) on a mac. A pc with windows and whatnot, for the average user, is horribly overcomplicated. They don't -want- to have to look under the hood. Some people want to be able to do more; but those are unfortunately going to be facing the problems Linux users are facing now.
My guess for the future: everyone has a computer/digital tv/console hybrid at home, a severely handicapped pc at work, and some smartphone/netbook/palmpilot hybrid for in between. The regular laptop will, for the most part, disappear - only people who really need to be able to do presentations on the move and such really have a need for them. The home desktop will become more rare - hobbyists and fanatics will still use them, but most people will have migrated long ago.
What people -want- is a machine they can use for e-mail, games, some office work, showing pictures to friends, and keeping in touch (friendslists, facebook, whatever). You can do all of those except office work with a PS3. You can do all of those (except for some games) on a mac. A pc with windows and whatnot, for the average user, is horribly overcomplicated. They don't -want- to have to look under the hood. Some people want to be able to do more; but those are unfortunately going to be facing the problems Linux users are facing now.
My guess for the future: everyone has a computer/digital tv/console hybrid at home, a severely handicapped pc at work, and some smartphone/netbook/palmpilot hybrid for in between. The regular laptop will, for the most part, disappear - only people who really need to be able to do presentations on the move and such really have a need for them. The home desktop will become more rare - hobbyists and fanatics will still use them, but most people will have migrated long ago.
#76
Chazwozel
Wait, that era is over?
Chazwozel
For those of us that lived through the whole, my computer is a year old and is now obsolete time, we will still buy desktops. Old habits die hard. 10 years ago, I'd tell friends that were buying computers to get the second most expensive computer that you can afford. That was just in the hope that it would still be a decent computer in 4-6 years. I just can't see spending large amounts of money for a computer that can barely meet my needs of today. I try to buy with an eye for the future. Hopefully I would have the processing power to handle the "next killer app" that will be out next year.
Wait, that era is over?
#77
sixpackshaker
Wait, that era is over?[/QUOTE]
It seems to have slowed down a bit. A computer I built to play Doom3 on full settings, still kinda rocks. 5 years later and it is still pretty up to date.
Of course I think the obsolescence has slowed because so much happens on the web now. Now you can get a $400 emachine and be done with it in 3-4 years or build $1200 machine and hope for 6 years.
sixpackshaker
For those of us that lived through the whole, my computer is a year old and is now obsolete time, we will still buy desktops. Old habits die hard. 10 years ago, I'd tell friends that were buying computers to get the second most expensive computer that you can afford. That was just in the hope that it would still be a decent computer in 4-6 years. I just can't see spending large amounts of money for a computer that can barely meet my needs of today. I try to buy with an eye for the future. Hopefully I would have the processing power to handle the "next killer app" that will be out next year.
Wait, that era is over?[/QUOTE]
It seems to have slowed down a bit. A computer I built to play Doom3 on full settings, still kinda rocks. 5 years later and it is still pretty up to date.
Of course I think the obsolescence has slowed because so much happens on the web now. Now you can get a $400 emachine and be done with it in 3-4 years or build $1200 machine and hope for 6 years.
#78
Bowielee
Bowielee
I have been getting more life out of my graphics cards. I'm currently running 2 8800 GTX in SLI and they'll still run everything out there with all the bells and whistles even though it's a few generations obsolete now. I remember upgrading my video card literally every other year at one point.
#79
GasBandit
Wait, that era is over?[/QUOTE]
In the desktop world, it's been over a long time. Basically, since the advent of the standardization of the affordable multicore processor. Ever since then, the only thing that needs to be upgraded every year or two is your video card. Thus, the advantage of a desktop.
Also, I forget who it was, but somebody said they looked forward to not having to upgrade your graphics card anymore because we couldn't get much higher resolution? I say, dream on. It stopped being about resolution 3 or 4 years ago. Now it's all about shaders, postprocessing effects, and of course, the eternal question of how many polys can be rendered at better than 30fps. Thus, the GPU upgrade treadmill shall continue into the foreseeable future.
GasBandit
For those of us that lived through the whole, my computer is a year old and is now obsolete time, we will still buy desktops. Old habits die hard. 10 years ago, I'd tell friends that were buying computers to get the second most expensive computer that you can afford. That was just in the hope that it would still be a decent computer in 4-6 years. I just can't see spending large amounts of money for a computer that can barely meet my needs of today. I try to buy with an eye for the future. Hopefully I would have the processing power to handle the "next killer app" that will be out next year.
Wait, that era is over?[/QUOTE]
In the desktop world, it's been over a long time. Basically, since the advent of the standardization of the affordable multicore processor. Ever since then, the only thing that needs to be upgraded every year or two is your video card. Thus, the advantage of a desktop.
Also, I forget who it was, but somebody said they looked forward to not having to upgrade your graphics card anymore because we couldn't get much higher resolution? I say, dream on. It stopped being about resolution 3 or 4 years ago. Now it's all about shaders, postprocessing effects, and of course, the eternal question of how many polys can be rendered at better than 30fps. Thus, the GPU upgrade treadmill shall continue into the foreseeable future.
#80
Chazwozel
Wait, that era is over?[/QUOTE]
In the desktop world, it's been over a long time. Basically, since the advent of the standardization of the affordable multicore processor. Ever since then, the only thing that needs to be upgraded every year or two is your video card. Thus, the advantage of a desktop.
Also, I forget who it was, but somebody said they looked forward to not having to upgrade your graphics card anymore because we couldn't get much higher resolution? I say, dream on. It stopped being about resolution 3 or 4 years ago. Now it's all about shaders, postprocessing effects, and of course, the eternal question of how many polys can be rendered at better than 30fps. Thus, the GPU upgrade treadmill shall continue into the foreseeable future.[/QUOTE]
So you're saying I can get an i7 now and expect not to require an upgrade for like 6 years (processor wise)?
Chazwozel
For those of us that lived through the whole, my computer is a year old and is now obsolete time, we will still buy desktops. Old habits die hard. 10 years ago, I'd tell friends that were buying computers to get the second most expensive computer that you can afford. That was just in the hope that it would still be a decent computer in 4-6 years. I just can't see spending large amounts of money for a computer that can barely meet my needs of today. I try to buy with an eye for the future. Hopefully I would have the processing power to handle the "next killer app" that will be out next year.
Wait, that era is over?[/QUOTE]
In the desktop world, it's been over a long time. Basically, since the advent of the standardization of the affordable multicore processor. Ever since then, the only thing that needs to be upgraded every year or two is your video card. Thus, the advantage of a desktop.
Also, I forget who it was, but somebody said they looked forward to not having to upgrade your graphics card anymore because we couldn't get much higher resolution? I say, dream on. It stopped being about resolution 3 or 4 years ago. Now it's all about shaders, postprocessing effects, and of course, the eternal question of how many polys can be rendered at better than 30fps. Thus, the GPU upgrade treadmill shall continue into the foreseeable future.[/QUOTE]
So you're saying I can get an i7 now and expect not to require an upgrade for like 6 years (processor wise)?
#81
figmentPez
Not only that, but computer enthusiasts who buy gaming, home theater, video editing, etc. capable PCs drive the technological advancement of the market. The profit margins are better on those PCs than on mainstream laptops. PC makers aren't going to give that market up just because they're making less desktops. They're more likely to try and expand the desktop market, and get people to consider buying an HTPC as a second (or third) computer in a household.
figmentPez
The problem with your statement is that a mainstream Honda can drive 80mph down the highway just as well, or better, than any car without electronic engine control and whatnot, and do it for cheaper. Laptops have yet to become even price competitive for gaming, and are generally less practical to use as an HTPC (a growing market, BTW.)Haha: ITT: Computer nerds who can't let go.
Your argument is akin to saying that 1960's muscle cars will always be the majority of what people drive. The parts are cheaper, the engine is simpler, you can work on it yourself and swap out endless parts to make it faster. Yet, I don't see many Firebirds driving around compared to mainstream Honda sedans.
Not only that, but computer enthusiasts who buy gaming, home theater, video editing, etc. capable PCs drive the technological advancement of the market. The profit margins are better on those PCs than on mainstream laptops. PC makers aren't going to give that market up just because they're making less desktops. They're more likely to try and expand the desktop market, and get people to consider buying an HTPC as a second (or third) computer in a household.
#82
MindDetective
The point is that most of the computer market are NOT gamers! PCs will lose market saturation because the wider market will find that small, powerful-enough computers are sufficient for their uses and have the added benefit of excellent mobility.
MindDetective
The problem with your statement is that a mainstream Honda can drive 80mph down the highway just as well, or better, than any car without electronic engine control and whatnot, and do it for cheaper. Laptops have yet to become even price competitive for gaming, and are generally less practical to use as an HTPC (a growing market, BTW.)[/QUOTE]Haha: ITT: Computer nerds who can't let go.
Your argument is akin to saying that 1960's muscle cars will always be the majority of what people drive. The parts are cheaper, the engine is simpler, you can work on it yourself and swap out endless parts to make it faster. Yet, I don't see many Firebirds driving around compared to mainstream Honda sedans.
The point is that most of the computer market are NOT gamers! PCs will lose market saturation because the wider market will find that small, powerful-enough computers are sufficient for their uses and have the added benefit of excellent mobility.
Laptops and pocket pcs drive innovation as well, just not an innovation on computing power. There is no question that handheld devices and laptops have both grown at an incredible rate and their increased popularity and usage has driven micronization and low-heat solutions that require fewer working (and thus breakable) parts.Not only that, but computer enthusiasts who buy gaming, home theater, video editing, etc. capable PCs drive the technological advancement of the market. The profit margins are better on those PCs than on mainstream laptops. PC makers aren't going to give that market up just because they're making less desktops. They're more likely to try and expand the desktop market, and get people to consider buying an HTPC as a second (or third) computer in a household.
#83
GasBandit
Wait, that era is over?[/QUOTE]
In the desktop world, it's been over a long time. Basically, since the advent of the standardization of the affordable multicore processor. Ever since then, the only thing that needs to be upgraded every year or two is your video card. Thus, the advantage of a desktop.
Also, I forget who it was, but somebody said they looked forward to not having to upgrade your graphics card anymore because we couldn't get much higher resolution? I say, dream on. It stopped being about resolution 3 or 4 years ago. Now it's all about shaders, postprocessing effects, and of course, the eternal question of how many polys can be rendered at better than 30fps. Thus, the GPU upgrade treadmill shall continue into the foreseeable future.[/QUOTE]
So you're saying I can get an i7 now and expect not to require an upgrade for like 6 years (processor wise)?[/QUOTE]
I'd guess around 5, but yeah. I've still got a box running on a Core2Quad 6600 ("Kentsfield") from back in '07 and it still blows the doors off of most other rigs these days... and it wasn't even the best/most expensive. It was the "budget" quad core. The thing is, there's precious few tasks these days that really stress your CPU. You'd think games would, but they actually are mostly GPU intensive. Hence, the importance of being able to swap it out. It's got a now-last-gen Geforce 8800GT in it, and there's still nothing it can't play at good framerate.
The computer I had BEFORE the ones I built in 07 (had to build two, one for me, one for the little woman.. only difference is I built MINE with a GTX instead of a GT) lasted me 5 years as well, but I went through 3 video cards on it.
GasBandit
For those of us that lived through the whole, my computer is a year old and is now obsolete time, we will still buy desktops. Old habits die hard. 10 years ago, I'd tell friends that were buying computers to get the second most expensive computer that you can afford. That was just in the hope that it would still be a decent computer in 4-6 years. I just can't see spending large amounts of money for a computer that can barely meet my needs of today. I try to buy with an eye for the future. Hopefully I would have the processing power to handle the "next killer app" that will be out next year.
Wait, that era is over?[/QUOTE]
In the desktop world, it's been over a long time. Basically, since the advent of the standardization of the affordable multicore processor. Ever since then, the only thing that needs to be upgraded every year or two is your video card. Thus, the advantage of a desktop.
Also, I forget who it was, but somebody said they looked forward to not having to upgrade your graphics card anymore because we couldn't get much higher resolution? I say, dream on. It stopped being about resolution 3 or 4 years ago. Now it's all about shaders, postprocessing effects, and of course, the eternal question of how many polys can be rendered at better than 30fps. Thus, the GPU upgrade treadmill shall continue into the foreseeable future.[/QUOTE]
So you're saying I can get an i7 now and expect not to require an upgrade for like 6 years (processor wise)?[/QUOTE]
I'd guess around 5, but yeah. I've still got a box running on a Core2Quad 6600 ("Kentsfield") from back in '07 and it still blows the doors off of most other rigs these days... and it wasn't even the best/most expensive. It was the "budget" quad core. The thing is, there's precious few tasks these days that really stress your CPU. You'd think games would, but they actually are mostly GPU intensive. Hence, the importance of being able to swap it out. It's got a now-last-gen Geforce 8800GT in it, and there's still nothing it can't play at good framerate.
The computer I had BEFORE the ones I built in 07 (had to build two, one for me, one for the little woman.. only difference is I built MINE with a GTX instead of a GT) lasted me 5 years as well, but I went through 3 video cards on it.
#84
PatrThom
I might have spent too much on it when I built it, but I suppose I saved by planning ahead enough to not have to build/buy another machine in the meanwhile. It is my opinion that upgradeability should be an essential part of the planning for any build.
--Patrick
PatrThom
Or not, if the following video is to be believed.In the desktop world, it's been over a long time. [...] Also, I forget who it was, but somebody said they looked forward to not having to upgrade your graphics card anymore because we couldn't get much higher resolution? I say, dream on. It stopped being about resolution 3 or 4 years ago. Now it's all about shaders, postprocessing effects, and of course, the eternal question of how many polys can be rendered at better than 30fps. Thus, the GPU upgrade treadmill shall continue into the foreseeable future.
Not only GPU-intensive, but also getting data in and out of that GPU. Hence the move to PCIe instead of AGP and PCI. Heck, my main PC is still a (server-based) dual PIII-S that I built in Mid-2001 with an AGP 4x GeForce 6800-class GPU, and it easily handled every game I threw at it until about the start of 2008, when I started bringing home games where I finally had to reduce graphics settings down from 'Max' to eliminate sub-30 framerates. If I ever do decide I need faster graphics in that box, I'll commandeer the BFG AGP 7800GS from Kati's machine (once she upgrades), but that's really about as much as I'm ever going to get from this box. The 1.4GHz P3 (even two of them!) isn't going to be able to generate the geometry information fast enough to keep the pipelines fed on any of the newer/faster AGP cards anyway.I've still got a box running on a Core2Quad 6600 ('Kentsfield') from back in '07 and it still blows the doors off of most other rigs these days... and it wasn't even the best/most expensive. It was the 'budget' quad core. The thing is, there's precious few tasks these days that really stress your CPU. You'd think games would, but they actually are mostly GPU intensive. Hence, the importance of being able to swap it out.
I might have spent too much on it when I built it, but I suppose I saved by planning ahead enough to not have to build/buy another machine in the meanwhile. It is my opinion that upgradeability should be an essential part of the planning for any build.
--Patrick
#85
GasBandit
GasBandit
The video didn't follow.
edit: ok, I extracted the URL out of your code:
That's interesting... but it smells a bit odd. We'll see if it's as advertised. Also, you have to wonder how it will handle things like variable transparency, motion, etc... all the models in their demo there were completely opaque and static.
If it does come to pass, you'll have to completely retrain graphics designers and artists to use it, and it's a much bigger leap to this from polygons than it was from sprites to polys.
edit: ok, I extracted the URL out of your code:
That's interesting... but it smells a bit odd. We'll see if it's as advertised. Also, you have to wonder how it will handle things like variable transparency, motion, etc... all the models in their demo there were completely opaque and static.
If it does come to pass, you'll have to completely retrain graphics designers and artists to use it, and it's a much bigger leap to this from polygons than it was from sprites to polys.
#86
figmentPez
figmentPez
Why does the majority of the computer market matter? If desktops still serve a purpose, be it gaming, home theater, workstation, or whatever, then they are not obsolete. Computer gaming may be small compared to the entirety of the computer market, but when major games sell millions of copies, the computers needed to play those games are in general use.The point is that most of the computer market are NOT gamers! PCs will lose market saturation because the wider market will find that small, powerful-enough computers are sufficient for their uses and have the added benefit of excellent mobility.
#87
GasBandit
Yeah, there's a difference between "loss of prevalence" and "obsolescence." I can possibly see laptops becoming more popular in general than desktops, but when it comes to computers, when you start talking about how "X makes Y obsolete," it generally implies "Y will not be manufactured or sold new anymore."
GasBandit
Why does the majority of the computer market matter? If desktops still serve a purpose, be it gaming, home theater, workstation, or whatever, then they are not obsolete. Computer gaming may be small compared to the entirety of the computer market, but when major games sell millions of copies, the computers needed to play those games are in general use.[/QUOTE]The point is that most of the computer market are NOT gamers! PCs will lose market saturation because the wider market will find that small, powerful-enough computers are sufficient for their uses and have the added benefit of excellent mobility.
Yeah, there's a difference between "loss of prevalence" and "obsolescence." I can possibly see laptops becoming more popular in general than desktops, but when it comes to computers, when you start talking about how "X makes Y obsolete," it generally implies "Y will not be manufactured or sold new anymore."
#88
PatrThom
Honestly, my biggest concern is that the market for the high-end ('enthusiast') home PC will shrink to the point where nobody wants to make them due to the inability to make a profit off such a small segment of the market. Or worse, they still sell the products, but mark them up 10x normal price to make up for the difference. As an example, it used to be that people worked directly with electronic components, but now it's all about modules, not components. This can come back to bite you if you are not electronics-savvy ($400 for a full PSU v. about $8 for a few parts).
--Patrick
PatrThom
Weird. Both of them show up just fine for me.The video didn't follow.
Honestly, my biggest concern is that the market for the high-end ('enthusiast') home PC will shrink to the point where nobody wants to make them due to the inability to make a profit off such a small segment of the market. Or worse, they still sell the products, but mark them up 10x normal price to make up for the difference. As an example, it used to be that people worked directly with electronic components, but now it's all about modules, not components. This can come back to bite you if you are not electronics-savvy ($400 for a full PSU v. about $8 for a few parts).
--Patrick
#89
Bowielee
Bowielee
People have been buying high end PCs since they began. I remember when only 3 people I knew owned computers. Yet, companies still produced them. At best, you'll see a small spike in pricing, but the market will never just evaporate.