Doom's Not-Potential Game of Doom That Isn't Happening

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doomdragon6

doomdragon6

Staff member
Hidy ho, folks.

This thread is for the POTENTIAL DoomDragon game. I'm not 100% yet, but as I see there's some interest and players are already having fun coming up with potentially absurd characters, I can see some fun to be had.

So far players are

Gusto
Escushion
Jay
MindDetective
Rathkor
HC?

All playable races are allowed, and I will happily work with you to do something outside the rules for your character (example: Julie's game where Zeke was a Warforged mod).

I house-rule a lot, and make shit up a lot. If you've memorized the attributes of existing monsters, that will do you no good as they do whatever I feel like they do.

One potential house rule I'm thinking of offering, and I'll leave it to a vote of the players, is a free extra Feat per level.

My game would obviously go very very slowly, and I know that feats create a lot of fun and are often the hardest things to choose, especially since you can only get one every two levels. By offering a free feat per level, I make that tough decision less tough and add some more uniqueness and fun to your character. This is by vote of course. If you guys want this, you can have it.

I make no guarantee that my game will be good. My only experience DMing is around a physical table with physical years-long friends with physical dice and a physical board with physical representations. In my other game I use a lot of facial and physical movements to emphasize an action, which I can't do here. Also, my world knowledge is limited, so half the shit you encounter doesn't make sense if you're an expert in the field.

However, I do pride myself on making interesting and interactive encounters. I can at the very least promise the fights or whatever will be fun and have something for everybody. Very rarely will you be met with nothing but "hit until it's dead".

I'll have to look into it more if anyone can use rituals, but I'm thinking of making rituals at least 50% normal cost, possibly 25%.

I also houserule a lot of items with unique uses. Charged wands or rings are an example. You might find a wand with 5 "Scorching Burst" charges. It allows you to use Scorching Burst as an at-will up to five times at the cost of a healing surge per use. That sort of thing.

Now, after all that, I would LOVE it if Rathkor would post some of his personal favorite highlights of my other game as a sort of demo reel for this one.

Feel free to start creating characters, asking for any special needs, forming relations, etc. I haven't crafted a world or a beginning yet, but I'll let you guys know when I do.
 
MindDetective

MindDetective

Leaning strongly towards a human monk. Not sure what's the best build but Gusto was hinting at a DEX/WIS build. That's all I've got so far!
 
HCGLNS

HCGLNS

Well, maybe some game basics to begin; the current mechanics of the game are d20, that is to say roll 1d20 add any modifiers, subtract any penalties and if the result is equal to or greater than the result you succeed. Saving throws are now something completely different, you no longer save versus specific effects, it's a simple d20 roll with a target of 10, no more save vs dragon breath and what not. What has replaced them is a serious of defenses, instead of the normal armour class, you have reflex, fortitude and will in addition to AC. Mental attackes target will, stabbing with a sword targest ac, a cone of cold might target fort and ranged attacks target reflex.

So biggest rule of thumb, the higher the better. The higher your attack bonuses the better, the higher your defenses the better.

Combat is still ruled by a series of rounds made up of turns. On each of your turns you may take 3 actions, a standard action, a move action and a minor action. You can swap a standard for a move or a minor and a move for a minor if you wish. You may make one interrupt action every round, and one opportunity action every turn.

One of the biggest changes in 4e is that they have assigned names to traditional roles and simplified the game. This is to help attract a new younger fan base, it's simply a function of their business model.

So now we have:
Defender: melee based, medium damage, high hit points, medium defenses, useful in keeping high damage opponents away from low hit point allys, also called "Meat Shield"

Controller: ranged based, low hp, moderate defenses, used to manage the battlefield by baffling opponents and restricting their movements, does little damage, but can do it to many opponents at once

Striker: medium hp, deal massive amounts of damage either in melee or ranged, typically to only single opponents, have to rely on defenders and leaders to stay alive, but with strategy are very viable

Leaders: medium hp, either ranged or melee, keep other party members alive with healing, provide modifiers for the PCs or penalties to the monsters, typically have good defenses overal
 
MindDetective

MindDetective

Just to note, I played some d20 pen and paper a while back. I know that 4e is taking after MMOs in a big way, which I've played but it has been a while for those as well. I'm less familiar with 4e, but have played the Castle Ravenloft game more than a few times, which is like 4e ultra-light. So, I understand the monk is a fast-moving striker. Ravenloft gives you 2 moves or an attack and a move. Minor action is new to me, as is interrupt action and opportunity action.

How are points determined for attributes, though? 3d6? Probably depends on the GM, like the old days.
 
HCGLNS

HCGLNS

Though I still prefer rolling dice for stats, most common now is point buy.

Start with 22 points and 10. 10, 10, 10, 10, 8 as your starting stats, then buy improvements as follows
9 — (1)*
10 0 (2)*
11 1
12 2
13 3
14 5
15 7
16 9
17 12
18 16

So if you want to turn a 10 into an 18 you need to spend 16 points of your starting 22.
 
MindDetective

MindDetective

Hmm, okay that helps a lot. I've forgotten the order they go in, but they are STR, INT, CON, DEX, WIS, and CHA. Is CHA the 8 there?
 
HCGLNS

HCGLNS

The 8 can be any of the six stats that you choose.

The stats are now grouped by what defenses they represent.

STR, CON -> FORT defense
DEX, INT -> REFLEX
WID, CHA -> WILL

So take the best modifier from either of the two to provide your defense, CON is still important for HP, DEX still used for Initiative, but they can be worked around quite easily.
 
HCGLNS

HCGLNS

level 1
Human, Monk
Monastic Tradition: Stone Fist
Human Power Selection: Bonus At-Will Power

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 16, Con 12, Dex 16, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 8.
(Each race gets modifiers to ability scores, so after your point buy is done, you add them)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 16, Con 12, Dex 18, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 8.

AC: 16 +10 just to start, +2 for being a monk and not wearing heavy armour, +4 for 18 DEX
Fort: 15 +10 base, +1 human, +1 monk, +3 for 16 STR (Str > Con)
Reflex: 16 +10 base, +1 human, +1 monk, +4 for 18 DEX
Will: 14 +10 base, +1 human, +1 monk, +1 for the super special monk bonus, +1 for WIS 12

HP: 24 +12 for MONK +12 (your CON score)

Surges: 8 these are new to you, they are called healing surges and they are a commodity to be managed, they represent how you regain health, you get 8 to use every day*, +7 for being a monk, +1 for CON modifier
Bloodied: 12, 1/2 your HP rounded down, this is a status you must announce when it occurs
Surge Value: 6 this is the amount of healing a surge provides you, 1/2 your bloodied value rounded down

*days in 4e are functionally divided between when you get some sleep, or in official terms "take an extended rest", so if you can use something once per day, they mean you can use it only once between extended rests
 
Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

Geez, let him make his sheet :p.

I think it'd help if Mind had the account info, yes? I know the online character builder's not as great as the downloadable one, but you can't really get the latter anymore, and the online one is better than nothing.

Gusto's called the bard leader. Odds are I will go defender.

Also--I'd rather we didn't do the extra feat thing personally.
 
Gusto

Gusto

I'm calling Bard leader, and I would LOVE a feat per level, and half/quarter priced rituals. they go perfect with my character. Let me know if tat's what we decide on - I'll post my character then , assuming a first level start.
Added at: 01:40
Honestly though the extra feats don't matter much to me in the long run, just know that I'll have mine picked out until like level 10.
 
R

rathkor

as one who has played Doom's game before, i gotta say the extra feat is kinda nice. but if others prefer not to, i understand. plus it might complicate things for the new guy.

as per doom's request, some highlights from our previous game.

-my first roll of the first session, i fell into a river of poop.
-one character in the group managed to tame and mount a beetle, through sheer high rolls.
-i killed a giant Troglodite, sliced it open, and hid inside it. some guards came near to the corpse and i burste out of it and attacked the guards.
-later in te same fight, one of our characters acted as if she was against me, and through very high bluff rolls managed to appear incompitenet in attacking him "by mistake" instead of intentionally.
-the sabra, a white sword with black stripes that as a daily power could become black with white stripes.
-Edward Cullen was a vampire that existed in the universe and might get to be killed by our group at a later date.
-Fighting a giant Anteater while covered in ant pheramones. I intentionally doused myself in the pheramones in orger to be the ulimate tank.
-Fighting a Cyclopse that was so dumb it ended up wrapping itself up in its own weapon. Doom thought the fight would be a challenge, but we killed it without ever taking a single hit.

there are probably a lot more that i am forgetting, but it is pretty cool. another thing to look out for in Dooms games, he likes to add environmental effects to the fights, such as barrels of oil the characters can use to light enemies on fire and things like that. he HEAVILY rewards creativity and using the environment as a weapon.
 
MindDetective

MindDetective

HCGLNS said:
A monk build
Click to expand...
That's not bad. I can't find explicit descriptions of monk feats online. WotC really locks it all down, I guess. Anyway, I get the impression that there might be some feats that are STR based and some are WIS based? If there is no cleric (or other WIS-based character) in the group, I'd probably switch the STR and WIS scores. That would make Fort 13 and Will 16, I think.

Also, in Castle Ravenloft you have 2 surges for the entire group. Does everyone get their own surges now?
 
HCGLNS

HCGLNS

So biggest rule of thumb, the higher the better. The higher your attack bonuses the better, the higher your defenses the better.
Click to expand...
2nd general rule, when dividing always round down. If your hit points are 27, your bloodied value is 27/2 rounded down or 13. Your healing surge value is 13/2 rouned down or 6.

Since you mentioned it, more on actions:

Standard Action is the "biggest", you can do only 1 per turn (with some exceptions, more on those later), it is typically used for attacking or doing something very complex

Move Action is the "medium", you use it to move (dun dun dun!), a move is your character either walking your speed rate, running (speed +2) or shifting (a 5ft step that can be done safely in combat)

Minor Action is the "smallest", it is used for simple things like falling prone, grabbing a weapon, killing Rathkor, drinking a potion and what not

Now I have used some silly descriptions to help how you can substitute actions.
A standard can be replaced with a move or a minor action.
A move can be replaced with a minor action.

So in your Ravenloft game you have two moves or a move and an attack, that would be taking your standard to attack and your move to move, or taking your standard to move and your move to move.

So your total options on your turn are;

Standard, Move, Minor
Standard, Minor, Minor
Move, Move, Minor
Minor, Minor, Minor

Now the other types of actions are; opportunity and immediate.

On any creatures turn they can take actions that grant you a free hit on them, think of it as a guy stopping to answer his cell phone in a street fight. He gets clocked for being so foolish. You may only make one of these per another creatures turn, but as many in a round that are granted to you.

Immediate actions are special, they can occur at any time, but you may make only one per round. The most common example would be the wizards shield, an immediate interrupt that interrupts an opponents attack and goes before the attack is resolved most likely preventing the attack from hitting. They are normally very powerful and can quickly change the course of that rounds combat. Heck the entire fighter class is based on immediate actions.

And lastly are Free Actions; they can be used at any time you want (unless surprised or unconscious) and represent things like talking, whistling, looking around passively or yelling at the other party members.
Added at: 14:41
MindDetective said:
That's not bad. I can't find explicit descriptions of monk feats online. WotC really locks it all down, I guess. Anyway, I get the impression that there might be some feats that are STR based and some are WIS based? If there is no cleric (or other WIS-based character) in the group, I'd probably switch the STR and WIS scores. That would make Fort 13 and Will 16, I think.

Also, in Castle Ravenloft you have 2 surges for the entire group. Does everyone get their own surges now?
Click to expand...
Yes, each character gets their own healing surges and they all have unique amounts and values. A fighter (defender/meatshield) might start with 12 surges per day, while a wizard only 6. Once you run out of healing surges it is really hard to get any serious healing performed on your character.

PC's can now self heal themselves instead of relying on clerics (and other leaders) to heal them. Once per encounter (or every 5 minutes out of and encounter) you can use your second wind and spend a healing surge and gain back the appropriate amount of hit points (normally 25% of your maximum)

Also your bloodied and healing surge values are based upon your maximum hit points not your current HP.
 
Gusto

Gusto

The idea is that every class has a couple different builds, which each emphasize certain things. So while a monk will ALWAYS be dependent on a high DEX, the second highest stat should be either STR (stone fist style) or WIS (centered breath style).

Stone Fist style monks are like your hard hitting action brawlers. Powers and attacks that work well with that build tend to do some serious damage and I believe can stun or immobilize enemies(...?) I'm honestly not too sure, I never played this spec.

Centered Breath monks are your more monastic Zen-like kung fu movie characters, that emphasize different methods of movement and positioning enemies strategically. They're all about setting up the battlefield, and act almost like controllers as well as strikers.

You guys need to share your account info with MD so he can start to mess around with this stuff, it's the best way to learn.
 
Gusto

Gusto

Well yeah, and that kinda comes down to what kind of characters everyone makes. We have 6 players and ultimately you're a striker first, so feel free to play whatever you want! Someone will be able to fill in any blanks, and hell, only you and I have even pick a class yet. ;)
 
HCGLNS

HCGLNS

Yes Bloodied is just a status that confers benefits and penalties. Dragonborn players gain a +1 to attack while they are bloodied, the Deva race gains +2 to defenses against attacks by bloodied creatures, most dragons can immediately use their dragon breath when they become bloodied...

And don't take that monk build as anything other than a way to talk about certain aspects of the game.
 
HCGLNS

HCGLNS

Well if you are set on monks, lets talk Monk builds (a build is essential a subclass within the monk class itself)

Now every striker class in the game has a special advantage that lets it deal more damage than a non striker class. The monks ability is the Flury of Blows, an auto hit free attack that it can make if it has successfully hit an enemy during your turn. Each of the different monk builds has their own version of Flury, but they all share what makes the monk unique, monks are multiple target melee strikers. Most if not all other strikers are single target.

Centered Breath Monk (DEX/WIS): You deal a decent amount of extra damage, but primarily forcibly move your opponents around the battlefield.

Iron Soul Monk (DEX/CON): You deal a decent amount of extra damage, and your prevent your opponents from moving around the battlefield.

Stone Fist Monk (DEX/STR): You deal a good amount of damage to one target.

Now the trick to the Monk is that, your flury is good versus an enemy you hit on your turn, but is even better against targets you did not attack.

So based on the build I presented earlier; their Flury of Blows would deal 6 damage to target hit previously or 8 damage to an opponent they did not hit. Now for a free hit attack, that is a very good amount.

The other difference about monks bonus striker ability is that it is constant, not variable like the rogue, warlocks, rangers...
 
MindDetective

MindDetective

I kind of like the Iron Soul Monk. It seems like you'd be a little tougher (though not exactly a tank) and still have some of the striking/controlling capabilities of the Centered breath monk. I'll need to see the feats to really decide.
 
HCGLNS

HCGLNS

Flury of Blows: Iron Soul Monk

Target takes 2+CON modifier damage and cannot shift until the start of your next turn. If it was not the target of your attack, the enemy also cannot make opportunity attacks until the start of your next turn.

Monk feats on a whole stink. You can take ones that increase the damage of your flury, or increase the range of it. You can increase your defenses as well with the Iron Soul build, and most baffling increase the effectiveness of your unarmed strikes.
 
HCGLNS

HCGLNS

No, that was more of a criticism of WoTC than your choice. Powers (or attacks if you will) deal damage in one of two ways, either written as a set dice amount (ie: 2d8) or as 1[W] or 2[W]...

[W] means that you role dice associated with the weapon that you are using. Longsword roll 1d8, dagger roll 1d6 etc.

now the monk's unarmed attack counts as a weapon and it is really really good, but not a single attack power associated with the monk uses the [W] for damage, they are all set dice powers. So why take a feat to increase the awesome power of your unarmed strike if you rarely benefit from it.

Which brings us to basic's

Every player gets the ability to make basic attacks; either melee or ranged.

Melee is STR vs AC and deals 1[W]+STR in damage
Ranged is DEX vs AC and deals 1[W]+DEX in damage

These attacks are most prominently used for opportunity attacks or when a power directs you to use them.

So for a monk to benefit from their awesome unarmed attacks, you would either choose to use basic attacks instead of At-Will powers or the following;

Plant yourself next to someone who will grant you attacks of opportunity!

And that is exactly what the Iron Soul build should do, move fast into combat and attack a ranged enemy. By preventing them from shifting, they have to walk away from you prompting an attack of opportunity or make a ranged attack with you adjacent to them again prompting an attack of opportunity.

So that build would make you sort of a secondary defender, that has good HP, good defenses and operates away from the regular defender.
 
HCGLNS

HCGLNS

The role you choose to play no, but the [W] versus set dice, yes. No monk powers use the [W] for damage save basic attacks. Now if this were in Jay's game, this would be awesome, as my leader allows you to make basic attacks on his turn, and directing a monk to do so would be a great deal of damage per round.

I'm just a bit irked at WoTC for promoting how awesome the monk is, dealing damage with your unarmed fists and feet, then limiting your ability to do so.
 
MindDetective

MindDetective

HCGLNS said:
The role you choose to play no, but the [W] versus set dice, yes. No monk powers use the [W] for damage save basic attacks. Now if this were in Jay's game, this would be awesome, as my leader allows you to make basic attacks on his turn, and directing a monk to do so would be a great deal of damage per round.

I'm just a bit irked at WoTC for promoting how awesome the monk is, dealing damage with your unarmed fists and feet, then limiting your ability to do so.
Click to expand...
I think I might be able to work within that limitation.
 
HCGLNS

HCGLNS

Now back to more 4e general discussions. In 4e there are two separate scenarios, in combat and non-combat. 80% of your powers can only be used in combat, but 100% of your SKILLS can be used in combat and out of combat. Yet for some reason skills are overlooked by most people in favour of exciting attack powers.

Skills work the same way as attack powers, higher is better, roll 1d20 add modifiers, subtract penalties, you meet or exceed your target you succeed!

Acrobatics, Arcana, Athletics, Bluff, Diplomacy, Dungeoneering, Endurance, Heal, History, Insight, Intimidate, Nature, Perception, Religion, Stealth, Streetwise, Thievery

Are the skills, they are available to each class and race and they come in two forms, trained and untrained. Trained means that you get a base +5 bonus and are superior in the use of the skill, otherwise not much else. As a monk you can choose to train in 4 skills from your class skills. Each class has a limited set of skills that you may train in, I have bolded the ones that are monk classs skills.

Now on to rolling dice!

You start with rolling 1d20 and
+1/2 your level
+ability modifier
+proficiency modifer
+enhancement modifier
+item bonus
+feat bonus
+power bonus
+untyped bonus

Now I have bolded untyped because it is the only bonus type you can have more than one of. I you have two separate feats that offer feat bonuses, you have to choose which one you want to use, same for item and enhancement bonuses. Untyped though keep adding up and up and up. Untyped usually come from benefits granted by conditions or other players.
 
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