Just fuck off and go back to Tumblrland where you belong, Neutered Charlie.
Everyday sexual harassment of women
- Thread starter Charlie Don't Surf
- Start date
I like this artist's critique of how to fix that cover in such a way as to be both less sexualized and better drawn while maintaining the general idea.
http://www.themarysue.com/controversial-spider-woman-covers-redrawn/
http://www.themarysue.com/controversial-spider-woman-covers-redrawn/
I've never really read a lot of Spider-Woman, but that cover never struck me as odd or sexual because I've read a shit-ton of spider-man, and recognized it as the "spider-pose." Spider-man is drawn in that same pose in nearly every single comic he's in.But... I thought I was so vanilla that no one was irritated by me.
Anyways, back to the topic in a sort of weird way, I saw this video about the more recent scandal involving a Spider-Woman variant cover. I think it hit my opinions pretty well.
Now the cover is hideous if you ask me, those proportions, yuck, but almost every article on it is arguing more about the pose being sexualized rather then just really badly drawn. I am all for more respect between genders, but why does every argument have to shit all over the idea of sexuality?
Boom. This nails it! It's not as pronounced as a Liefeld drawing, but the weight placement is off, which makes it feel like an unnatural pose.
Maddox is right too - mountains out of molehills. I don't know where he's pulling his ~47% female readers stats though.
I don't really even think it's that sexualized, not any more then I would consider spider-man crawling on all fours with his legs spread eagle which is what he does almost all the time. Though the fixes are a huge technical improvement over the abomination of that original perspective. I think my biggest problem is that SJWs spend more time raging over crap like that badly drawn variant cover rather then actually trying to improve the issues women actually face.
I mean look at this...
We freak out about Spider-Woman, a fictional character, in a spider pose because she looks like she has ass cheeks, all the while magazines like this have Emma Watson straddling a seat in what appears to be a foam girdle or some shit and none of them seem to care unless it's the new hot button topic trend. This is something nearly every woman is going to see in the checkout area of a store, while the only people looking at the comic are going to be comic fans. I don't know, maybe I have a bias involving this, but I don't think sexuality in fantasy is a bad thing, because unlike all our photoshop celebrities, people understand it's not real and often exaggerated.
One reason why the cover has gotten so much blog attention is because a lot of the prominent female commentators in comics have a (very understandably) negative view of Greg Land, because of how much of his drawings of female characters appears to be ripped-off traces of glamor photos and porn...and then Marvel just straight up hired a guy who draws porn to draw the cover, which he did in such a way as it looks like he traced his own porn. It was almost like they were trying to piss commentators off.[DOUBLEPOST=1409941999,1409941744][/DOUBLEPOST]
Dude, people on the internet freak out a lot about photoshop fashion magazine culture. All of the comic stuff and Hawkeye Initiative stuff and all that is from the internet subculture that grew up around critiquing those magazine covers.
Fair enough, but I don't see that coming up as much these days. I even frequent tumblr a lot more then I should, and things like this always seem to be the new hot button issues involving sexualized imagery, rather then anything involving the culture of magazine images, celebrity, etc... It's just getting to me a bit more because I am a very sexual person, who understands the difference between fantasy and reality, and I just feel like some SJWs will never be happy until every female hero is walking around in a burqa. Any focus on the females chest in any way seems to become "flaunting her tits".
While there is some like that, there's also a lot of folks out there who are simply trying to make the point (as themarysue folks did with that cover) that there is a difference between "sexy" and "sexualized".
Man, if you think the Manara variant cover is badly drawn, don't look at the Greg Land monstrosity that is the normal cover.But... I thought I was so vanilla that no one was irritated by me.
Anyways, back to the topic in a sort of weird way, I saw this video about the more recent scandal involving a Spider-Woman variant cover. I think it hit my opinions pretty well.
Now the cover is hideous if you ask me, those proportions, yuck, but almost every article on it is arguing more about the pose being sexualized rather then just really badly drawn. I am all for more respect between genders, but why does every argument have to shit all over the idea of sexuality?
You know what I've noticed here and other places, is that people seem to be using the fringes of movements as the barometric for the discussion of it (which is what a lot of this conversation feels like). I cant imagine how healthy it would be for people to get off tumblr and youtube more. It's not always the *ideal* place to learn about things or have conversations.
I'm guessing that has to do with the Tumblr demographic, which seems to skew young. They're gonna care more about comic books and vidjer games than whatever supermarket rag their parents read.
GasBandit
Staff member
I consider this to be a conversational atmosphere fostered by media in general - quiet discussion doesn't sell, froth and vitriol does. And how much of that do we have to be inundated with before we consider it the standard for discourse?
Another fair point. My overall feed of information usually skews on the younger side of things, plus heavy into pop culture, so I am likely going to notice the discussions a lot more. I guess I just want a world in which I can enjoy the female form for being beautiful and sexy without it always turning into a argument about exploitation.
There are entire doctorate courses built around feminine oversexualization in all forms of media. You probably won't see them on you tube or tumblr though, because they're busy doing actual research to help enact social justice rather than ineffectually bitching about it on social media.
the ironic thing is that literally the only thing I've ever used tumblr for is to objectify women
Everyone has their douche moments, for sure. Plus, the rivalries which just can't seem to be resolved or ignored.
Seriously, @DarkAudit, you have to be careful. We're all living in glass houses on this one.
I worked developing film for Kodak for almost 3-1/2 years. The Internet holds few surprises for me.
--Patrick
Yes. It is. Yup.
Eh. I don't really see the "sexualised" problem (with this cover specifically - I do agree in general principle). Frankly, the "adjusted" version of that site is a lot sexier than the original, in my opinion. The problem simply seems to be that DC and Marvel hire comic artists who can't properly draw. It skews more negatively for females, especially in tight costumes (normal clothes tend to be ok 
); I'm guessing because there are still less of them. But things like this, or Liefeld, aren't about "oh god the women are just wrong", they just aren't good at drawing basic anatomy. I don't know about you, but in general, bodies and poses that are, you know, theoretically possible hold an edge.[DOUBLEPOST=1409978625,1409978296][/DOUBLEPOST]
); I'm guessing because there are still less of them. But things like this, or Liefeld, aren't about "oh god the women are just wrong", they just aren't good at drawing basic anatomy. I don't know about you, but in general, bodies and poses that are, you know, theoretically possible hold an edge.[DOUBLEPOST=1409978625,1409978296][/DOUBLEPOST]
Well, yes, yes it is.
Escher Girls is an excellent site for exposing the "(body part) doesn't work that way" of comic art.Eh. I don't really see the "sexualised" problem (with this cover specifically - I do agree in general principle). Frankly, the "adjusted" version of that site is a lot sexier than the original, in my opinion. The problem simply seems to be that DC and Marvel hire comic artists who can't properly draw. It skews more negatively for females, especially in tight costumes (normal clothes tend to be ok
fade
Staff member
To be fair, comics are all about pushing anatomy, and Spider-MAN is a good example of a comic that is always full of impossible human contortions. Most of his spider-agility moves are fairly impossible, too. But they look possible. That Spider-Woman cover looks possible, too (except for the impossibly tight costume). The thing that stands out, as the Mary Sue pointed out, is that it's not quite the usual spider pose. It's adjusted so that she's "presenting". Spidey gets on all fours, but he doesn't stick his phanton vagina upwards.
He does tend to leap crotch-first, though.
If I were to critique the Spider-Woman cover (which I don't like, but not because I think it's pointlessly sexual, but rather I just don't like the art) it would be to ask wtf is wrong with her face.
Hmm, now I'm imagining Spiderwoman in that pose,and I'm thinking "chest out! Crotch wide open! Pure sexploitation".He does tend to leap crotch-first, though.
If I were to critique the Spider-Woman cover (which I don't like, but not because I think it's pointlessly sexual, but rather I just don't like the art) it would be to ask wtf is wrong with her face.
pretty much everything this.But... I thought I was so vanilla that no one was irritated by me.
Anyways, back to the topic in a sort of weird way, I saw this video about the more recent scandal involving a Spider-Woman variant cover. I think it hit my opinions pretty well.
Now the cover is hideous if you ask me, those proportions, yuck, but almost every article on it is arguing more about the pose being sexualized rather then just really badly drawn. I am all for more respect between genders, but why does every argument have to shit all over the idea of sexuality?
figmentPez
Staff member
Yeah, Spidey has been in a very similar pose on a lot of covers, complete with bad anatomy, but he keeps his butt down, he looks more spider-like:
The anatomy here is pretty messed-up, but his butt is flat with the rest of his body and his knees. He's a crouched spider.
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I do now, thankyouverymuch.