Explain Anti-Enviroment Actions

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Deep Core Geothermal FTW, biatch! Solves our energy AND our waste problems at the same time!
I remember reading this a while back. I wonder why they (the companies) never really do this. Is it too expensive to drill a hole into the ground?[/QUOTE]

No, but it's got a lot of issues with building the actual generators: You need to find locations that are close enough to the surface to exploit them, you need to make sure the vent will always produce (instead of doing it in bursts like most land geysers), you need to find a group of people with the expertise that are willing to work in an environment that could potentially face them with a horrible boiling death, you need a way to shut it done in case it needs to be repaired...

In short, it's just a huge endeavor at this point. That doesn't mean it shouldn't be looked into, because the possibly benefits are much greater than solar/wind, but it's going to take a huge amount of funding to get it done.
 

Necronic

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TL;DR

I was listening to Pacifica this morning (Democracy Now) and heard someone say that in response to the oil spill in the gulf of mexico ALL OFFHORE OIL RIGS should be immediately shut down and no new ones should ever be allowed to start. Amy did her standard "I'm neutral and just asking questions and I am clearly exhausted from the years of standing on the front line but I will keep chugging forward" response and kept moving forward.

That interview right there is one reason why people fight against enviromentalists. Because some of them are REALLY FUCKING STUPID. What that guy offered wasn't a solution, it was a way to cause a global energy crisis the likes of which we have never seen. Many enviromentalists suggest that we out of hand stop doing something permanently with no thought of the reppercussions.

And that leads to the real problem:

As a scientist any time I hear people that are not scientists talk about environmental stuff (which, surprise, is 95% of the time) I sit back and crack open a copy of Modern Jackass. They spout off stuff they have read somewhere else and try to regurgitate it back, when clearly they have no understand of the science behind it. This isn't just a problem with the left, its all sides.

And these are really quite complicated systems we are talking about. Climate Change is an insanely complicated topic, I have a degree in chemistry and most of that science is well beyond me, so if I am to have a view about it I have to accept something someone else is telling me without being able to follow a full fundamental explanation, which means that I am basing my opinion on more things than just the science.

Now that's me, I can understand some of the fundamentals, but at the end of the day my views could be based heavily on my subjective opinions on the character of someone else presenting the facts. But since most people have the scientific education of a 17th century fire worshipper, environmental/health politics are entirely dominated by cults of personality, which, to me, is the real problem
 
To me, saying all oil rigs should be shut down because of the Gulf spill is like saying all airlines should be shut down because of an especially bad plane crash. Something can be 99% safe and the best option for a given situation, but there will still be random occasions when something goes wrong. One accident should not be taken as a sign that the entire industry is fundamentally flawed.
 
To me, saying all oil rigs should be shut down because of the Gulf spill is like saying all airlines should be shut down because of an especially bad plane crash. Something can be 99% safe and the best option for a given situation, but there will still be random occasions when something goes wrong. One accident should not be taken as a sign that the entire industry is fundamentally flawed.
Sure, but 1 plane crashing out of 100 (or even 1000) doesn't have the same impact as an oil spill in the open sea.

Think about someone saying the same about nuclear plants... "just because 1 out of X will go critical it's no reason not to put them everywhere"! There's a reason why they need to be 100 times safer then other energy generating facilities.


Oh, okay. Since you're relying on that old adage, I'll just assume everything you say is a lame joke from here on out.
Lame joke >>> dismissing arguments because the source is using comedy in it's presentation.
 
C

Chazwozel

Honestly, I'm hesitant to respond because of GB's nature of lashing out quite visciously instead of responding constructively. It's a large part of why I tend to steer clear of the politics forum in general. But I came up with a pretty sound argument that I'd like to share:

My argument isn't about just the CO2 levels or the ozone layer or anything like that. It's about finding a balance with nature instead of just taking.

Look at it this way: nature finds a great harmony and there's a use for everything and anything. Minerals in the ground feed the bugs, bugs feed the birds, etc. Even a fallen tree decomposes and creates rich minerals in the earth that continues the cycle. Nature also adapts, such as building an entire ecosystem around a sunken ship. However, it can only adapt so much and our mucking about, destroying forests in the name of "progress" reduces nature's impact to help us. By removing, say, trees around the area that birds can create nests in, they can't live there, so the bug population rises and we have an infestation that previously was stopped by birds and other animals.

I'm not saying we all live in caves, make fires, etc. But there's something to be said about going back to basics a little. For example, in the summers, I don't take transit at all and rely on my bicycle, which I love. In fact, it's a little faster than transit because I don't have to stop at every corner to pick someone up. It's a healthy way of getting outside, getting exercise and getting me to where I need to go. Now, I'm also not saying tha EVERYONE can live this way, either. But suppose more people did? Less cars on the road means less congestion, less air polution, a healthier population, etc. If more people transported themselves like this, there would be a slightly healthier population, meaning a reduced stress on an already stressed healthcare system.

Ditto for, say, electricity. I doubt I could give up my PS3, but just because we can't entirely rely on just wind or solar power doesn't mean it shouldn't be used. Imagine the reduction of emissions if nearly every building had solar panelling and a couple of smaller wind turbines? Imagine the reduction of heating costs if nearly every building with a flat roof had a green roof?

Heck, speaking of green roofs: they can be used to create crops. There's a hotel in Vancouver that produces fruit, herbs & honey worth $16,000 a year from its green roof (read it in National Geographic). There's so much wasted space in cities on those rooftops that could be used for green roofs and suddenly, we have rooftop gardens. Spread that to other parts of the world and local farming becomes a larger, viable option, which cuts the costs of transporting food across seas.

Like I said, I'm not saying that we live in caves, but I am saying that there are viable reasons to "go green" that can reduce costs, create jobs, create a healthier lifestyle for us and still have a similar life to what we live, now. Like I said, it's about creating a balance, rather than just reaping and sowing.
STOP PERSONIFYING NATURE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
To me, saying all oil rigs should be shut down because of the Gulf spill is like saying all airlines should be shut down because of an especially bad plane crash. Something can be 99% safe and the best option for a given situation, but there will still be random occasions when something goes wrong. One accident should not be taken as a sign that the entire industry is fundamentally flawed.
Sure, but 1 plane crashing out of 100 (or even 1000) doesn't have the same impact as an oil spill in the open sea.

Think about someone saying the same about nuclear plants... "just because 1 out of X will go critical it's no reason not to put them everywhere"! There's a reason why they need to be 100 times safer then other energy generating facilities.


Oh, okay. Since you're relying on that old adage, I'll just assume everything you say is a lame joke from here on out.
Lame joke >>> dismissing arguments because the source is using comedy in it's presentation.[/QUOTE]

No one is saying oil rigs should be put everywhere, I just want people to acknowledge how much of a freak accident this is rather that imply it's a systemic problem, implying that all oil rigs/nuclear plants are ticking time bombs.

And guess what, if you use shitty sources be prepared to be made fun of and called out.
 
C

Chibibar

No one is saying oil rigs should be put everywhere, I just want people to acknowledge how much of a freak accident this is rather that imply it's a systemic problem, implying that all oil rigs/nuclear plants are ticking time bombs.

And guess what, if you use shitty sources be prepared to be made fun of and called out.
This is just one of those "worst case scenario" (so far) in terms of accidents. Realistically, you can't shut down all those oil rigs. U.S. alone is VERY power hungry (Gas, Electricity, Energy in general) There is no way to compensate that if they shut down. We just don't have the advance tech that can produce energy cheaply in terms of overall cost right now :(
 
@Li3n;384397 said:
To me, saying all oil rigs should be shut down because of the Gulf spill is like saying all airlines should be shut down because of an especially bad plane crash. Something can be 99% safe and the best option for a given situation, but there will still be random occasions when something goes wrong. One accident should not be taken as a sign that the entire industry is fundamentally flawed.
Sure, but 1 plane crashing out of 100 (or even 1000) doesn't have the same impact as an oil spill in the open sea.

Think about someone saying the same about nuclear plants... "just because 1 out of X will go critical it's no reason not to put them everywhere"! There's a reason why they need to be 100 times safer then other energy generating facilities.


Oh, okay. Since you're relying on that old adage, I'll just assume everything you say is a lame joke from here on out.
Lame joke >>> dismissing arguments because the source is using comedy in it's presentation.
No one is saying oil rigs should be put everywhere, I just want people to acknowledge how much of a freak accident this is rather that imply it's a systemic problem, implying that all oil rigs/nuclear plants are ticking time bombs.
Then you should have probably not have brought up airplanes, who might be safer then cars, but still crash rather regularly.

And guess what, if you use shitty sources be prepared to be made fun of and called out.
Oh for fucks sakes... the matter didn't really require much detailing, plus you apparently need to read this (from another untrustworthy source): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

---------- Post added at 07:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:09 PM ----------

No one is saying oil rigs should be put everywhere, I just want people to acknowledge how much of a freak accident this is rather that imply it's a systemic problem, implying that all oil rigs/nuclear plants are ticking time bombs.

And guess what, if you use shitty sources be prepared to be made fun of and called out.
This is just one of those "worst case scenario" (so far) in terms of accidents. Realistically, you can't shut down all those oil rigs. U.S. alone is VERY power hungry (Gas, Electricity, Energy in general) There is no way to compensate that if they shut down. We just don't have the advance tech that can produce energy cheaply in terms of overall cost right now :([/QUOTE]

The main advantage the middle east has it that any ooil spills there will kill off a lot of sand and not much more.
 
Well sure, if you set it on fire shit gets real...

But the idea was that it's easier to contain on land, which is one of the reasons off shore drilling has more restrictions.
 
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