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Fat kid stands up for himself and gets a suspension... and ETERNAL GLORY!

Mar 14, 2011#1

IronBrig4

Apparently, Casey had been picked on for years by little runts like this kid, who shall forever more be known as The Rat. Casey finally had enough when The Rat and his stooges tried to record their bullying sessions.

If the Dramatica article is to be believed, Casey was suspended for four days. The Rat received a twenty-two day suspension, a dislocated knee, and a lifetime's supply of humiliation. The Rat's parents also seem to be suing every sentient creature that was within a five-mile radius of the smackdown.

Mar 14, 2011#2

phil

Kid effing THROWS "the rat" down on the ground. Effing amazing.

Effing.

Mar 14, 2011#3

sixpackshaker

I don't know if I'd actually call Casey a fat kid... Corn Fed maybe... He's a big ole boy.

The Rat is a complete idiot for picking on a kid that could snap you in half.

I was pretty similar to Casey's size as a kid, but I suffered no bullies. On the first swing at me, and the kid would end up in the nurse's office.
Added at: 21:56
And the video is gone.

Mar 14, 2011#4

Tress

The video got yanked while I watched it. Weird.

Still, I got to see the epic throwdown. Good for him. Kids should always try to talk it out and get adults' help with bullies, but if that doesn't work they need to lay down the law.

Mar 14, 2011#5

Disconnected

LOL The Bully's parents can suck it. LOL Good ol school yard smack down.

Mar 14, 2011#6

IronBrig4

Okay, I put up a shortened video with added commentary.

Mar 14, 2011#7

Tress

Mar 14, 2011#8

drifter

In case anyone missed it, it's still up on Facebook. Also still up at Deadspin.
-edit-
Or just watch Ironbrig's new video.

Mar 14, 2011#9

Officer_Charon

This shit... this shit right here is BEAUTIFUL! Magnificent! I salute you, sir!

Mar 14, 2011#10

Gusto

This takes me back.

Well done, kid, and enjoy internet worship!

Mar 14, 2011#11

Dave

He's got his own Facebook fan page. He doesn't have FB himself, but a friend of his set it up.

Fucking kid deserves a medal and the parents of the little scumbag need to be beaten down by all the parents of his victims.

Mar 14, 2011#12

SpecialKO

How dumb do you have to be to bully a kid who is bigger than you? Of course, he probably figured his buddies would back him up...

Mar 14, 2011#13

Tress

SpecialKO said:
How dumb do you have to be to bully a kid who is bigger than you? Of course, he probably figured his buddies would back him up...

Judging by how the big guy just took that first punch, I'm guess he was an easy target because he never fought back. My, how quickly things change...

Mar 14, 2011#14

Hylian

I still think that it is retarded that the kid got suspended for 4 days for defending himself.

Mar 14, 2011#15

Dave

0 tolerance = dumb as fuck.

Mar 14, 2011#16

Tress

Well, let's be realistic. He body slammed a kid onto some pavement. It was dangerous. He was provoked, of course, but it's still something worthy of a minor suspension. The other kid got a much longer suspension.

Mar 14, 2011#17

SpecialKO

Eh, he got 4 days of suspension, and the bully got 22 days, and humiliated on the Internet. If they were punished "equally" then it would be complete BS, but in this case the school got to mug for the zero-tolerance section of the PTA and still put the bully in his place.

EDIT: Besides, "defending yourself physically can still have real world consequences" isn't the worst message out there, as it happens to be true. Do schools send suspension info to colleges?

Mar 14, 2011#18

Hylian

I remember back when I was growing up there was a kid who was always picking on my brother (smacking him, pulling the chair out, etc) and the teacher wouldn't do anything about it. So one day when the kid starts to pick on my brother again my brother just tackles the kid to the ground and of course my brother gets detention for it. My dad showed up to the school and sat through detention with my brother cause he said in his eyes my brother hadn't done anything.

Mar 14, 2011#19

SpecialKO

Hylian said:
I remember back when I was growing up there was a kid who was always picking on my brother (smacking him, pulling the chair out, etc) and the teacher wouldn't do anything about it. So one day when the kid starts to pick on my brother again my brother just tackles the kid to the ground and of course my brother gets detention for it. My dad showed up to the school and sat through detention with my brother cause he said in his eyes my brother hadn't done anything.

Your dad is pretty cool.

Mar 14, 2011#20

MindDetective

The dislocated knee just makes me cringe.

Mar 14, 2011#21

figmentPez

Dave said:
0 tolerance = dumb as fuck.

Damn straight. I understand what a zero tolerance policy is attempting to do, and the problems that give rise to it, but ultimately it's an inherently flawed policy that doesn't fix anything. I saw an article not too long ago (wish I'd saved it) about the problems that zero tolerance policies cause. Basically, fighting back against bullies is a healthy reaction and not indicative of a violent nature. Children who can't fight back against bullies become increasingly desperate, and that in turn leads to psychological problems.

EDIT: How much sooner would this kid have been able to stand up for himself, if he weren't afraid of getting in trouble for doing so? At some schools raising your fists at all, even to block a punch, is enough to get you in trouble for fighting. (Either you take the punch, or you're suspended.) If he hadn't been pushed to the point of snapping, would he have had to dislocate someone's knee just to make his point?

Mar 14, 2011#22

Mathias

It's always the fucking little guys that always have got something to prove...

Mar 14, 2011#23

Dave

Mathias said:
It's always the fucking little guys that always have got something to prove...

With all his crony friends backing his cowardly ass up, filming it and egging him on. He didn't have anything to prove, he was just a little prick who needed to be beaten down.

Mar 14, 2011#24

Cajungal

I think Pez is dead on about these rules making kids snap. Hell, Jake "snapped" in 8th grade. He's always been a big guy who could do serious damage if he wanted to, but he never did. One day, after months and months of being harassed and pushed around by this kid, Jake threw him down and just started wailing on him. The coach totally turned his head and denied seeing anything. The other kid had gotten into trouble several times before, so it was Jake's word against the other kid's. I think he was required to be suspended for a day, but his parents didn't punish him any more than that. The coach even told him later that he shouldn't have waited so long and taken so much abuse.

Just some common sense, man. That's what we need.

Mar 14, 2011#25

Disconnected

figmentPez said:
How much sooner would this kid have been able to stand up for himself, if he weren't afraid of getting in trouble for doing so? At some schools raising your fists at all, even to block a punch, is enough to get you in trouble for fighting. (Either you take the punch, or you're suspended.) If he hadn't been pushed to the point of snapping, would he have had to dislocate someone's knee just to make his point?

I agree this is can add to schoolyard problems instead of helping. No such policy existed in my wee days of school.
Also kid is facing charges? good god, the little bitch is the one to face charges, verbal assault, physical assault to start with. I'm sure there is a 'video-taping with intent to distribute and humiliate' charge we can make up.

Mar 14, 2011#26

Tress

In 8th grade I was having problems with a bully, and one day I finally got into a fist fight with him. We both got suspended, but his was a few days longer for provoking me and basically being such a shit. I think it was fair. You need to have consequences for fighting, even if you were provoked.

Mar 14, 2011#27

Cajungal

Well, it looks like that kid in the video got seriously hurt.

Mar 14, 2011#28

Vagabond

At the end, it looks like another bully is going to start some stuff, and the big kid looks at the bully limping around like a wounded gazelle, turns around and walks away.

BAWSE.

Mar 14, 2011#29

sixpackshaker

4 days is pretty light for effing that kid up that bad. I bloodied a few lips and dotted a few eyes, but I never really hurt anybody. And I knew what it would take and kept short of that.
Added at: 23:22
And the schools uniforms did not stop any of that violence.

Mar 14, 2011#30

DarkAudit

Cajungal said:
Well, it looks like that kid in the video got seriously hurt.

In the real world that kind of crap can get you shot. The Rat should consider himself lucky.

Mar 14, 2011#31

sixpackshaker

In the original video that tall girl stood the 2nd bully down.

Mar 14, 2011#32

Wasabi Poptart

The Rat deserved it. Stupid ass.

Mar 14, 2011#33

Officer_Charon

Were I to be shown that and told they wanted a report, I would laugh in their faces, and tell them that their son instigated the whole thing. Then I'd charge the son with disorderly conduct (fighting words, instigating a fight) and simple battery (for the jab to the face). Sucks to be you, rat-boy!

Mar 14, 2011#34

IronBrig4

Dramatica article.

That school is getting a lot of email from people congratulating Casey, dissing The Rat, and chiding the school for suspending a kid who just stood up for himself. Now that the video has gone viral, The Rat has lost any street cred (or whatever they call it in Australia) whatsoever.

Mar 14, 2011#35

rabbitgod

Wow, he didn't just pick him up and let him drop, he THREW him down. Nice job kid.

And too much hopping rat. He should be thrown down just for that.

Mar 14, 2011#36

figmentPez

So, to all you awesome kids out there, keep doing what you do, but ask yourself this:
Are you ready for a throwdown?

Ooops, sorry, different type of throwdown.

Mar 14, 2011#37

Bumble the Boy Wonder

I had a bully problem once.

Then I murdered him.

Mar 14, 2011#38

North_Ranger

While I applaud the kid for defending himself, that piledriver could have ended very, very badly.

Mar 14, 2011#39

makare

I'm so glad I didn't watch this. Just hearing about it makes me hurt.

Mar 14, 2011#40

MindDetective

makare said:
I'm so glad I didn't watch this. Just hearing about it makes me hurt.

I didn't want to watch either. I'm not sure why I did.

Mar 15, 2011#41

@Li3n

Bumble the Boy Wonder said:
I had a bully problem once.

Then I murdered him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjZjAMuEVEQ

Also, someone needs to put the song over the OP video.

Mar 15, 2011#42

Math242

whooo nice body slam

Mar 15, 2011#43

phil

Added at: 04:05
also:

Mar 15, 2011#44

Mathias

North_Ranger said:
While I applaud the kid for defending himself, that piledriver could have ended very, very badly.

It could have ended badly, and that's exactly how the Rat learns - you don't fuck with a bull.

Mar 15, 2011#45

rvdleun

As painful as that looked for the 'Rat'.... well, I have to admit that I do think that he got what he was asking for.

Mar 15, 2011#46

ThatNickGuy

Bodyslam? Piledriver? Dudes, that was an effing POWERBOMB.

Speaking as someone who was relentlessly bullied in Middle School and partly in High School, I applaud the kid. 4 day suspension is just fine, y'ask me. He can just sit back and play some video games while he gets famous. The Rat, on the other hand, is gonna be the laughing stalk for a good long time.

Mar 15, 2011#47

drawn_inward

I hate bullies. The fool only understands the rod - words do no good.

Mar 15, 2011#48

Jay

Added at: 12:45

Added at: 12:48

Added at: 12:50

Mar 15, 2011#49

SpecialKO

That "simply walks into Mordor" one is hysterical.

Mar 15, 2011#50

IronBrig4

If I was Casey's Dad, I would give him a lecture on controlling his violence because that body slam could have caused immense damage. With that out of the way, I would then treat him and all his friends to ale and whores. Or, since they're probably too young for that, I'd just take them all out for pizza.

Mar 15, 2011#51

Null

I'm pretty sure he's old enough for whores, by Aussie standards. Not ale, though.

The Rat is very lucky he didn't land on his head - being thrown down on concrete like that could have got him a busted skull or a broken neck.

Mar 15, 2011#52

Chibibar

You know, The rat is just stupid picking on people period. The Rat thinks he got an easy mark, everyone has a breaking point. From the article, looks like the rat pick on kids for sometime. This guy just had it.
I would have to agree if it was my kid, I would lecture about using body slam (could hurt or even kill the kid if the rat was slammed on that little ledge next to it) but then congrat him on defending himself

my kid was The rat, I would give him a lecture and extend the punishment for bullying other kids. I don't like bully.

Mar 15, 2011#53

North_Ranger

IronBrig4 said:
If I was Casey's Dad, I would give him a lecture on controlling his violence because that body slam could have caused immense damage. With that out of the way, I would then treat him and all his friends to ale and whores. Or, since they're probably too young for that, I'd just take them all out for pizza.

Okay, pretty much this.

Mar 15, 2011#54

Mathias

Mar 15, 2011#55

North_Ranger

... Why does he look like a midget John Cena? Seriously, is there actually a person on this planet who thinks that's a good look?

Mar 15, 2011#56

makare

That kid is creepy looking but John Cena is hot. Like supah hot.

Just to be clear....

Mar 15, 2011#57

Mathias

North_Ranger said:
... Why does he look like a midget John Cena? Seriously, is there actually a person on this planet who thinks that's a good look?

Dude, John Cena is friggin ripped and has a jaw you can cut diamonds with. He's got a body that pretty much every guy wants.

That kid is a pip-squeak piece of shit.

Mar 15, 2011#58

Officer_Charon

I thought he was more like the F***** guido look from Jersey Shore

Mar 15, 2011#59

makare

Yeah guidos... not Cena.

He is a delicious slice of man and the sole reason I watch wrestling.. EVER.

Mar 15, 2011#60

Bumble the Boy Wonder

makare said:
...John Cena is hot. Like supah hot.

Mar 15, 2011#61

makare

hahaha

Mar 16, 2011#62

IronBrig4

The Rat's mother says he deserved it in an interview with Australian TV. That admission is the cherry on top of the sundae of awesomeness. Since the video keeps getting shoved back down in the news show's playlist, I figured a screenshot would be better.

Mar 16, 2011#63

AshburnerX

Saw this over at Kotaku.

Zangief kid gets Street fighter remake he deserves.

Mar 16, 2011#64

Azurephoenix

That little shit got everything he deserved... maybe he'll learn not to antagonize people in the future...

And even though that powerbomb could have ended very very badly... it was awesome!

Mar 16, 2011#65

Morphine

Hmmm... I'm glad for the kid, he stood up for himself, even suspension must have tasted great for him.
However, I also feel sad about the bully... I mean, he must not have very good parents :/ there's always a reason for kids to turn like that.

Mar 16, 2011#66

Krisken

I disagree. Some kids are just dicks.

Mar 16, 2011#67

Morphine

Maybe. But most of the time, I bet if you dig a little deeper you'll find it's not just that the kid's "a dick". We can't know about this one, I guess I just want to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Mar 16, 2011#68

Bones

Because he thought it was good sport. Because some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.

Mar 16, 2011#69

Null

Morphine said:
Maybe. But most of the time, I bet if you dig a little deeper you'll find it's not just that the kid's "a dick". We can't know about this one, I guess I just want to give him the benefit of the doubt.

His own mother said "he had it coming". Now, that could really support either conclusion -ie that he's a little jerkass and his own mum knows it, or that he has shitty parents and that's why he's a dick.

Mar 16, 2011#70

Tress

Really, can we stop quoting The Dark Knight? It's a little creepy how much people are projecting onto the bully. He's a 16 year old kid who was being an asshole. He's not a sadistic murderer.

Mar 16, 2011#71

Bones

I project nothing, I simply use it as the example that some people are just monsters, there is no causality

Mar 16, 2011#72

makare

16? really... wow my ability gauge children's ages is gone i guess.

Mar 16, 2011#73

sixpackshaker

If the bully is 16 he should have gone to jail, but that is Australia's laws not ours.

The vengeful victim looked like he was 13 or less.

Mar 16, 2011#74

drifter

Casey is 16. The bully is 12.

I actually find the age discrepancy harder to wrap my mind around than the size disparity, in regards to the bullying.

Mar 16, 2011#75

makare

Woot my power returns. I pegged him as 12.

Mar 16, 2011#76

Mathias

Tress said:
Really, can we stop quoting The Dark Knight? It's a little creepy how much people are projecting onto the bully. He's a 16 year old kid who was being an asshole. He's not a sadistic murderer.

I agree, but at the same time everyone's been bullied at one point or another so yeah it's nice to see the victim walloping one on occasion. I don't think anyone's saying the Rat needs to die or anything. He's just a little shit-stain who finally got what he deserved for being a dick.

Ever hear of the old adage, "don't mess with people too much cause one day you're going to piss off the wrong guy"? This kid found that guy.

Mar 16, 2011#77

DarkAudit

I think dear old Mum just flushed any case the Rat's parents had down the toilet.

Mar 16, 2011#78

IronBrig4

Yeah, that's a picture of The Rat from a few years back. He must be half-rodent.

Mar 16, 2011#79

Gusto

...Is he wearing a Goddamned halter top??

Mar 16, 2011#80

Cajungal

I think it's a red hanky.

Mar 16, 2011#81

sixpackshaker

South Side Blood... well a Down Under Blood.

Mar 16, 2011#82

Espy

Honestly I feel bad for that "rat" kid. Not to say he didn't deserve his smack down, he did, but what must his life be like that at 12 years old this is who he is?

I hope he gets the help he probably needs and I hope it's not to late for him.

Mar 16, 2011#83

Ravenpoe

Is he wearing a goddamn bandanna for a shirt?

Some people hit their peak in middle school. Some hit rock bottom. Just so happens that for this kid, it was both.

Mar 16, 2011#84

checkeredhat

If the kids were actually anywhere near the same age (and as young as they look in the video), then I'd be pretty quick to cheer for Casey too, but this is a grade 16 year old picking up a 12 year old and hurling him to the ground. Sixteen. kid should know how to deal with bullies better by this age, especially bullies 3 grades younger than them. And if violence HAD to be the answer, it didn't have to be a pile drive onto concrete. It could have been a whole lot less and still have more than gotten the message accross.

Mar 16, 2011#85

Null

checkeredhat said:
If the kids were actually anywhere near the same age (and as young as they look in the video), then I'd be pretty quick to cheer for Casey too, but this is a grade 16 year old picking up a 12 year old and hurling him to the ground. Sixteen. kid should know how to deal with bullies better by this age, especially bullies 3 grades younger than them. And if violence HAD to be the answer, it didn't have to be a pile drive onto concrete. It could have been a whole lot less and still have more than gotten the message accross.

The little one punched him in the face, and struck at his body a few more times. The big kid knocked most of those away. I think he gave him every opportunity to stop - you can see him telling the small one to stop, and the little one getting more aggressive because of it. The little guy could have walked away at any time, but he pushed the situation until the big guy reacted. I don't think anyone's going to fight him any time soon, so I'd say the situation was resolved. A less extreme method might have ended it that day, but what about the next day? Some bullies just keep bringing more friends.

Mar 16, 2011#86

DarkAudit

Remember, the Rat's buddies were the ones taping the whole thing. The little punk had a posse. Casey was all alone.

Mar 17, 2011#87

checkeredhat

Null said:
A less extreme method might have ended it that day, but what about the next day? Some bullies just keep bringing more friends.

I am dumbfounded by this. A hypothetical and non-specific method might have ended it that day, but hypothetically the bully might have continued after that, and so this, therefore is the only viable solution? Hypothetically it doesn't end after this either, you know.
No matter how you slice it, its a sixteen year old and a 12 year old. A grade 7 and a grade 10. And I'm not saying the grade 7 kid isn't a little turd and didn't deserve a good smack, but what I'm saying is that those are four years that make for a big difference, and the grade 10 should have been a lot more careful in administering that smack.

Mar 17, 2011#88

Mathias

And now begins the battle of Captain Hindsight vs. The Hindsight Crusader?

What they should have done was...

Mar 17, 2011#89

Espy

Mathias said:
And now begins the battle of Captain Hindsight vs. The Hindsight Crusader?

What they should have done was...

Teamed up to fight the evil known as...
David Blaine!

Mar 17, 2011#90

Null

I agree that David Blaine must be stopped. I'd say Criss Angel, too, but he's just going to die of autoerotic asphyxiation.

And saying that some bullies bring more friends was not a hypothetical. I know that from experience.

Mar 17, 2011#91

@Li3n

Espy said:
Honestly I feel bad for that "rat" kid. Not to say he didn't deserve his smack down, he did, but what must his life be like that at 12 years old this is who he is?

I hope he gets the help he probably needs and I hope it's not to late for him.

Well hopefully the whole thing smacked some sense into him...

Mar 17, 2011#92

Dave

Null said:
And saying that some bullies bring more friends was not a hypothetical. I know that from experience.

We also know this to be true because he already had friends there! They were the ones filming and egging him on. Casey only had one person step up to help him and even that was after the fact.

Casey has been picked on since he started going to that school. He's big so they pick on him. He holds his temper so they think he's weak. He's sensitive and cries because he thinks everyone hates him...so they see this as weakness and pick on him more. There are other videos of him getting picked on by other kids his own age. The Rat was trying to get in with the older crowd and that Casey was the chosen target because it had been done so many times before. Casey felt alone at his school. His parents (well, his dad anyway - nothing has been heard from his mother) have been unable to get anything accomplished.

What exactly was he supposed to do? Walk away? You can't just walk away from a mass of bullies. They want a fight and they want to show their power over those they perceive as weaker. Casey had been the target of these jackals for years and he finally did something about it. It can be notes that he did not swing, he did not try and hit, he did not try and kick. He picked the kid up and threw him down. Casey does not know how to fight so he did the first thing that came into his mind.

According to the news, Casey's dad is glad he got the 4 day suspension - he's afraid of what the bully patrol will do to his son when he gets back in school.

I, for one, am glad that anonymous got in on this. Let the kids mess with Casey when he returns. It'll get out. They want to pick a fight? They'll get one.

Mar 17, 2011#93

Azurephoenix

I was bullied throughout my school days all the way until grade 10 when I snapped and went to town on the two leaders in gym class. I hacked out the legs of one of them with a goalie stick (we were playing floor hockey at the time and they had just body checked me out of the net... again) and when the other one grabbed me from behind I flipped him over me, kicked him and knocked the wind out of him. I was terrified of retribution but luckily it never came... they still made fun of me and stuff but never physically picked on me after that. Damn it I hate bullies... I never had anyone to back me up in my school years and they made my life a living hell. I don't give two shits about what was going on in their own lives... they had no right to treat me the way they did for nearly ten years. Later as an adult I found out that they both came from dysfunctional families and one of them was beaten by his dad fairly often. Tragic... but it doesn't give them any god damn right to take it out on me for years.

I just hope that Casey is more or less left alone at school after this... I remember how I felt after reaching my breaking point and I was terrified that I would be beaten up even worse for what I did.

Fucking bullies... as if being a kid isn't hard enough sometimes.

Mar 17, 2011#94

Bones

I too got the shit beat out of me physically and emotionally during my time in school. crescendoing when after coming back from summer vacation my junior year and gaining 4-5 inches of height and a good 20-30 pounds of weight I got attacked by my long time bully and punched him straight in the throat so hard he went down and never got back up. bullies are horse shit, I don't give a shit what their sob story is after the fact of having their ass handed to them by their victims. you keep picking on people and eventually someone is going to give you a walloping.

Mar 17, 2011#95

Hailey Knight

Null said:
A less extreme method might have ended it that day, but what about the next day? Some bullies just keep bringing more friends.

We're going with lessons learned from Ender's Game?

Mar 17, 2011#96

Adammon

Bones said:
I too got the shit beat out of me physically and emotionally during my time in school. crescendoing when after coming back from summer vacation my junior year and gaining 4-5 inches of height and a good 20-30 pounds of weight I got attacked by my long time bully and punched him straight in the throat so hard he went down and never got back up. bullies are horse shit, I don't give a shit what their sob story is after the fact of having their ass handed to them by their victims. you keep picking on people and eventually someone is going to give you a walloping.

You...you killed him?

Mar 17, 2011#97

DarkAudit

Adammon said:
You...you killed him?

Um, yeah. More information, please. O.O

Mar 17, 2011#98

SpecialKO

I suspect he's exaggerating for effect, but still... :confused:

Mar 17, 2011#99

Mathias

Azurephoenix said:
I was bullied throughout my school days all the way until grade 10 when I snapped and went to town on the two leaders in gym class. I hacked out the legs of one of them with a goalie stick (we were playing floor hockey at the time and they had just body checked me out of the net... again) and when the other one grabbed me from behind I flipped him over me, kicked him and knocked the wind out of him. I was terrified of retribution but luckily it never came... they still made fun of me and stuff but never physically picked on me after that. Damn it I hate bullies... I never had anyone to back me up in my school years and they made my life a living hell. I don't give two shits about what was going on in their own lives... they had no right to treat me the way they did for nearly ten years. Later as an adult I found out that they both came from dysfunctional families and one of them was beaten by his dad fairly often. Tragic... but it doesn't give them any god damn right to take it out on me for years.

I just hope that Casey is more or less left alone at school after this... I remember how I felt after reaching my breaking point and I was terrified that I would be beaten up even worse for what I did.

Fucking bullies... as if being a kid isn't hard enough sometimes.

It's always during floor hockey! In 7th grade, my own little "rat" decided it would be fun to slash at my shins with the cheap plastic sticks they give us.

I ended up breaking his ankle.

Mar 17, 2011#100

Espy

That seems... extreme...

Mar 17, 2011#101

Null

escushion said:
We're going with lessons learned from Ender's Game?

Heh, it's been years since I read it. That's a valid point - obviously this wasn't a life and dead fight, and thankfully it didn't escalate to that, though it could have if the rat had landed on his head. What I mean is that it was such an overwhelming (but justified) reaction that hopefully his peers will think twice.

Mar 17, 2011#102

Mathias

Espy said:
That seems... extreme...

I full checked him into the gym wall. It's not my fault he tripped over himself and snapped his ankle. Lesson learned. Don't fuck with the kid twice your size who plays hockey and knows how to check. I'm still not sorry about it to this day.

Mar 17, 2011#103

Espy

Ah, I was picturing you putting his leg in a vice grip and going all Jack Baur on him.

Mar 17, 2011#104

Bones

no no, what I meant was that I hit him so hard he got knocked out cold, holy shit guys dont read so much into it....

Mar 17, 2011#105

Hailey Knight

You're clearly not Batman, killer.

Mar 17, 2011#106

Bones

I said I was batman? would you care to explain that line to me?

Mar 17, 2011#107

Espy

I think he's calling someone else Batman.

Mar 17, 2011#108

Hailey Knight

And I'm calling him NOT Batman.

Because Batman doesn't kill.

And Bones does.

On Mondays. Kills. Cleaning lady.

Mar 17, 2011#109

Espy

BONES WHY ARE YOU KILLING PEOPLE AND DRESSING LIKE BATMAN?

Mar 17, 2011#110

Bones

WHAT....ARE YOU PEOPLE ON DRUGS!? I DIDNT KILL ANYONE! SWEET ZOMBIE JESUS I AM JUST A SIMPLE BASEMENT DWELLING GEEK-NERD....I AM ABOUT AS THREATENING AS JELLO JIGGLERS!
:Leyla:

Mar 17, 2011#111

makare

I knew it.

Mar 17, 2011#112

Espy

As threatening as THIS jello jiggler?

Thats what I thought!

Mar 17, 2011#113

Bones

haha, thats one hell of a jello jiggler!

Mar 17, 2011#114

Espy

Mar 17, 2011#115

fade

I'm of two minds. Everyone likes to see the hero stand up. But there's a good reason why the defender deserves punishment, too.

Mar 17, 2011#116

Frankie Williamson

Mathias said:
It's always during floor hockey! In 7th grade, my own little "rat" decided it would be fun to slash at my shins with the cheap plastic sticks they give us.

I ended up breaking his ankle.

Yeah, we had a similar situation that ended up getting broomball banned from the school when I was in grade 8.

Mar 17, 2011#117

checkeredhat

fade said:
I'm of two minds. Everyone likes to see the hero stand up. But there's a good reason why the defender deserves punishment, too.

It is not oft, but you and I are in agreement, sir.

Mar 17, 2011#118

checkeredhat

Dave said:
We also know this to be true because he already had friends there! They were the ones filming and egging him on. Casey only had one person step up to help him and even that was after the fact.

Casey has been picked on since he started going to that school. He's big so they pick on him. He holds his temper so they think he's weak. He's sensitive and cries because he thinks everyone hates him...so they see this as weakness and pick on him more. There are other videos of him getting picked on by other kids his own age. The Rat was trying to get in with the older crowd and that Casey was the chosen target because it had been done so many times before. Casey felt alone at his school. His parents (well, his dad anyway - nothing has been heard from his mother) have been unable to get anything accomplished.

What exactly was he supposed to do? Walk away? You can't just walk away from a mass of bullies. They want a fight and they want to show their power over those they perceive as weaker. Casey had been the target of these jackals for years and he finally did something about it. It can be notes that he did not swing, he did not try and hit, he did not try and kick. He picked the kid up and threw him down. Casey does not know how to fight so he did the first thing that came into his mind.

According to the news, Casey's dad is glad he got the 4 day suspension - he's afraid of what the bully patrol will do to his son when he gets back in school.

I, for one, am glad that anonymous got in on this. Let the kids mess with Casey when he returns. It'll get out. They want to pick a fight? They'll get one.

I don't speak as someone who wasn't bullied. I know all about this. I also never claimed that the returning with friends was hypothetical, and anyone with even the most basic of comprehension of language knows this too (I'm not trying to insult Null. He's a good guy, one of the members on this board whose been here a while and whom I respect, he's just trying to bait me into an argmument that I'm not trying to make and he's smart enough to know that's not what I meant either) But yeah, walk away, or throw a punch, maybe two. Get him in a lock. There are lots of ways to dominate without causing that much harm or running the risk of potentially permanent damage. There are a wide breadth of possibilities between doing nothing, and hurtling a kid headfirst to the concrete.

Throwing him headfirst to the concrete (him being a kid 4 years his junior and about a haf his size) is not, under any circumstances that don't involve time travel and Hitler, acceptable. I think the school was just in its suspensions.

Mar 17, 2011#119

LittleSin

Have you never been in a fight? You do whatever you think is a good idea at a time to get the combatant away from you.

A guy, much larger then I, once pinned me to a wall as I was waling to my car one night. He had his arm across my throat and it was hard to breath and my hand couldn't get him off of me...so in a moment of panic I used the car keys in hand as make shift knuckle dusters nad started lacing the guy in the face with them. He ran away, screaming prfanities and I was left with a sore throat, a missing show, bent up glasses and cut up hands from my own keys.

I just did whatever I could to win...I have a feeling that's what happened here.

Mar 17, 2011#120

Null

I agree that Casey's punishment is not undeserved - after all, the kid could have been hurt worse - but I also believe that what he did wasn't wrong.

Mar 17, 2011#121

Espy

LittleSin said:
I just did whatever I could to win...I have a feeling that's what happened here.

I don't think anyone would disagree with your assessment, but it seems to me like this kid needs some martial arts lessons so he can learn to control himself. The reality is that throw could have broken that kids neck and left him paralyzed. If he know how to defend himself he could deal with assholes like this with minimal risks.

Mar 17, 2011#122

LittleSin

I thought that statistics said that martial arts is basically useless in an actual fight? Things happen to fast and with out any 'rules of combat'...and theres actually an increased chance of severly injuring/killing your opponent if you do use what your taught.

I need to find that paper.

Mar 17, 2011#123

checkeredhat

Null said:
I agree that Casey's punishment is not undeserved - after all, the kid could have been hurt worse - but I also believe that what he did wasn't wrong.

I think he took it a might too far, but we are not in total disagreement,

Mar 17, 2011#124

Espy

It has less to do with how effective the actual martial art is in a fight and much more to do with the control over your own body you learn. Now, that doesn't mean you can't lose it, but it gives you some tools that may help you control your actions better. I only have a few years of kung fu under my belt but I can tell you this, it certainly helped me in the few fights I was in.

Mar 17, 2011#125

checkeredhat

LittleSin said:
Have you never been in a fight? You do whatever you think is a good idea at a time to get the combatant away from you.

A guy, much larger then I, once pinned me to a wall as I was waling to my car one night. He had his arm across my throat and it was hard to breath and my hand couldn't get him off of me...so in a moment of panic I used the car keys in hand as make shift knuckle dusters nad started lacing the guy in the face with them. He ran away, screaming prfanities and I was left with a sore throat, a missing show, bent up glasses and cut up hands from my own keys.

I just did whatever I could to win...I have a feeling that's what happened here.

This is a *VERY* different scenario and kudos to you for that.

Mar 17, 2011#126

makare

That sounds about right. Unless the other person is using the same style of fighting AND following the rules of that style it doesnt seem like it would help much. Not when someone is actually out to get you.

That's why the best style of fighting is still Bitch, My Man Ain't Yo Baby's Daddy! ala Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back.

Mar 17, 2011#127

Null

LittleSin said:
I thought that statistics said that martial arts is basically useless in an actual fight? Things happen to fast and with out any 'rules of combat'...and theres actually an increased chance of severly injuring/killing your opponent if you do use what your taught.

I need to find that paper.

There's a difference between sporting martial arts and martial arts designed to kill people with one's bare hands. Even different orientations of the same basic art can be vastly different. Most of what you learn at mini-malls and the like are sporting martial arts - it's exercise, and sometimes tournament focused. Then there are forms that often are military in origin and are meant to be used in life and death situations - Systema, Krav Maga / Kapop, LINE/MCMAP, and Silat are some examples. A lot of martial arts are somewhere in between. Knowing techniques like joint locks and escapes are always useful, but most people don't practice them or develop the judgement to use them effectively.

Yes, if you're in a serious fight and well trained, you are more likely of being capable of severly injuring or killing your opponent. Training also helps you to know how to use less force as opposed to bashing each other until one person stops moving. But yes, in a street fight, any ideas about katas or forms or stances go out the window.

Mar 18, 2011#128

SpecialKO

Null said:
Even different orientations of the same basic art can be vastly different.

This. Just look at something like karate. Goes all the way from point-fighting-kata demos to the base style for a lot of street defense systems. It can be very useful on the street to know how to punch or kick someone really hard and really fast without entirely sacrificing your defense. Then you can run away while they're picking themselves up.

Mar 18, 2011#129

checkeredhat

Just look at what the Cobra Kai learn vs what Daniel-Son learned.

Mar 18, 2011#130

Dave

What we need is more of this:

Dad catches his two kids bullying another kid. So he takes them to the cops. BAM - assault charges.

http://www.qt.com.au/story/2011/03/18/ipswich-dad-turns-in-kids-bullying-crime/

Mar 18, 2011#131

Krisken

Kudos to that dad for doing what was right. Hells yes.

Mar 18, 2011#132

Azurephoenix

I can only imagine the rage that dad was feeling when he found out his own kids were bullying people the way he was bullied when he was a kid.

Good for him for coming down hard on their bullying. Hopefully they learn their lesson.

Mar 18, 2011#133

Bones

I always love beatings and bullying for benign reasons....your hair is the wrong color, you wear glasses, you have a physical disability.

Mar 18, 2011#134

Tress

Mar 18, 2011#135

Espy

I lol'd.

Or actually I guess I more col'd.

Mar 18, 2011#136

Necronic

I don't begrudge the Casey kid for what he did. He's a kid. Many adults have difficulty controlling their emotions when they get cornered or feel threatened. In his case, he defended himself. Problem was that, since he's a kid, he did it WAY too well.

Part of the problem is that he didn't have any idea just how big he was.

Ultimately this isn't about Casey or the Rat. One of the major failures here is our culture, and possibly the school system. The youtube bully phenomenom is absolute poison. What's worse is that there seem to be so few reppurucussions for it.

Take this instance. Were the kids videotaping this suspended? Why the hell not? Or what about all the hazing cases that come up every year. Sometimes justice is served. Other times, you have a situation where sexual assault is involved and admitted to and the defendant gets probation and a fine. Or when girls bind and gag juniors and throw them in a pool. And get 60 hours of community service and have it expunged from their record.

The simple fact that 'hazing' is considered a blanket criminal charge for acts that should more appropriately be considered aggravated sexual assault, reckless endangerment, or any other of a variety of criminal charges just shows how far we have lost it.

Mar 18, 2011#137

North_Ranger

Dave said:
What we need is more of this:

Dad catches his two kids bullying another kid. So he takes them to the cops. BAM - assault charges.

http://www.qt.com.au/story/2011/03/18/ipswich-dad-turns-in-kids-bullying-crime/

Okay, Australia just jumped into #2 on my list of countries I could see myself living in. Good job, dad, good job!

Mar 18, 2011#138

Null

North_Ranger said:
Okay, Australia just jumped into #2 on my list of countries I could see myself living in. Good job, dad, good job!

Australia's not a country people live in. It's place that people visit until it kills them.

Mar 18, 2011#139

TNM

Null said:
Australia's not a country people live in. It's place that people visit until it kills them.

Exhibit A:

Mar 18, 2011#140

Gusto

I'M NOT WEARING HOCKEY PANTS

Mar 18, 2011#141

Disconnected

OK good for you

Mar 21, 2011#142

IronBrig4

Here's an interview with the man himself. He seems like a nice kid, and he's incredibly articulate for a 15-year-old. For a while I thought this video was only famous on the Interwebs and in Australia, but it's actually gotten tons of coverage from a lot of TV shows.

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/emotional-interview-with-the-boy-who-stood-up-to-a-bully-casey-heynes/

Mar 21, 2011#143

Jay

Bullies are usually all talk and usually after they receive their first punch they tend to back down real quick unless they are in bigger numbers. If you know your locations, you'll avoid that altogether.

I played boths sides of that discussion. When I went to highschool as a junior I was the shortest & smallest boy in my entire class year of 200+ students. I got picked on A LOT. Guys were taller, strong than I was and even my anger got my share of welts. I cannot describe you how I can loathe some people and how terrible some people can be.

Near the end of that school year I finally hit puberty and when I came back from my 2nd year in autumn (sophomore for you americans I think) I went from 5'2 to 6'3 and from 120 pounds to 180 pounds. I also managed to become good friends with a group of friends as well who were big guys and didn't take shit from anyone.

First day of school.... the "bullies" were clearly half a feet smaller than I was at this point and giving away a lot of weight as well. Their face? Priceless. Leave me to say this, retribution was given in full, many times and in ways I'm too ashamed to even share with you folks . I got suspended many many times and caused a lot of problems for my family as my anger issues got the better of me. Public schools suck a dick.

The bullies though? They stopped and in fact turned around when I came walking up the hallway.

So for Casey, you'll be my hero and I hope you inspire others to kick a bullie's ass.

Mar 21, 2011#144

Krisken

He seems like a well adjusted kid. I'm sure he won't become the thing he hated.

Mar 21, 2011#145

Espy

Lol, I still remember my Kung Fu teacher's first lesson about "real" fighting.
"Run if you can."

There was never any pretense that what we were being taught was intended to make us "fighters", I mean, it did have it's practical uses, our form was pretty practical. It was designed to get you out of a fight as fast as possible.

Mar 21, 2011#146

Espy

mr_thehun said:
yeah, that's basically what any good martial arts studio teaches.

Things I have been taught (from various teachers)

at the end of a knife fight, there is the one who slowly bleeds to death and the one who is dead

The best defense is to not be there

create an opening and flee

"Cheat" as often as you need in order to survive.

we live in a world of weapons in plain sight. Use whatever you can to survive.

If you're fighting for any other reason than survival, you're doing it wrong.

But there is a difference in preparedness a person can have from the type of training they do. Just learning kata and point sparring will only instill a false sense of confidence in a person who will be horribly injured some day.

Yeah, all very true. I think our style was pretty suited for a fight if you had to get in one. We actually didn't compete in any sort of tournaments because we had very little to use that wasn't focused on breaking bones making any sort of tournament... difficult.

Mar 21, 2011#147

SpecialKO

My first real martial arts teacher drilled us endlessly in simple block-counter combinations and physical conditioning. When we asked her why, she said it's because the most important things you need to know to defend yourself from an attacker are:

1) Block/evade their attack
2) Punch/kick/bite/gouge them somewhere painful
3) Run like shit in a different direction

Mar 22, 2011#148

Null

Getting beaten teaches you what doesn't work against another person. Which is actually a valuable lesson.

Mar 22, 2011#149

Necronic

Yeah, martial arts doesn't teach you much about how to fight. Yeah, you learn how to throw a punch, and there is some physical conditioning, but real fights quickly loose any semblance of form. The amount of fights I have been in where there was even a chance to throw a proper punch are negligible.

Also, if martial arts had a lot to do with real fights then every stance/form would have the 'kick for the balls' step in it, would require you to wear steel toed boots, and would teach you the best places to kick someone when they are on the ground so that they don't get up (but also you don't risk killing them). They would also involve 10 minutes per class of getting punched hard in the head, to train you to not black out. Also you would need to train really drunk, since that's when you're most likely to get in a fight.

Real fights are up close and horribly dirty. Last real fight I was in lasted about 5 seconds for me; I got sucker punched, blacked out immediately, and then woke up in a cop car.

*I will give martial arts credit for giving people a degree of confidence in fighting, so they don't back down from every potential bully/etc, but I take that same credit back and then some for giving peoplet the idea that they should stand up to an armed opponent. The amount of jackasses I have talked to who think they could disarm someone with a knife and/or gun freaks me out*

Mar 22, 2011#150

Math242

there's a difference in efficieny between martial arts and combat sports.

A good boxer (thai or western) who has to do a lot of sparring will perform better in a street fight than someone who's never tried to actually hit someone because "techniques are deadly"

Mar 22, 2011#151

Espy

Necronic said:
The amount of jackasses I have talked to who think they could disarm someone with a knife and/or gun freaks me out*

Yeah, our teacher did a lot to discourage that. He would bring in Nerf guns and have the true badassess in the class stand a few feet away and have them attack to show that even with a nerf gun it fired to fast for them to do anything.

Mar 22, 2011#152

SpecialKO

Espy said:
Yeah, our teacher did a lot to discourage that. He would bring in Nerf guns and have the true badassess in the class stand a few feet away and have them attack to show that even with a nerf gun it fired to fast for them to do anything.

My teacher did something similar. She brought in rubber knives with chalk dust on them, and told us to react to being attacked. Everyone who tried for a disarm (which at the time was everyone, including me) got marked, and then had to run 5 laps as punishment for being stupid.

The only person who didn't get marked was the junior instructor, who just fended the blow off, dodged, and ran away.

Mar 22, 2011#153

Jiarn

Wait... you mean this

won't work? Oh god, what will I do now?!

Mar 22, 2011#154

Chibibar

My master taught us that Kung Fu is more of a discipline. He said that it doesn't work in a real world fight because everyone uses different technique. It is best to avoid the fight than to be in one.

Mar 22, 2011#155

Officer_Charon

Between MCMAP, my department's VIPER program, and the little bit of American Tang Soo Do that I took as a young teen, I can confidently state that if I get into a fight with someone, I am going to have to kick them as hard as I can and disengage - I don't have the juice to last long in a fight.

VIPER is all about ground-avoidance: a cop has no business getting into a scuffle with someone. We are to hit hard, fast and one time only, then secure the assailant Joint-locks and limb manipulation feature heavily.

MCMAP is (in it's later stages) all about killing someone, via hands, legs, knives, rifle strikes or improvised weapons - it helps to teach flexibility.

American Tang Soo Do is formulaic and about looking good in a tournament. Got the beginnings of some discipline there, though...

Mar 22, 2011#156

Null

O_C - the funny part about MCMAP is that it's "toned done" from the previous system, which was LINE (Linear Infighting Neural Overdrive Engagement) which was designed purely to kill your opponent. MCMAP has the possibility of restraints and less-lethal techniques.

Here's what LINE was designed for:

(a.) all techniques must not be vision dominant; techniques may be executed effectively in low-light conditions, or other impaired visibility conditions (i.e., smoke or gas)
(b.) extreme mental and physical fatigue
(c.) usable by the Marine / soldier while wearing full combat gear
(d.) proper execution of the techniques must cause death to the opponent
(e.) gender neutrality; must be usable by- and against- either gender

I've got one of the manuals for LINE and basically everything ends with "stomp directly down on your opponent's skull or neck with your entire body weight". It is not a "fighting style", it's meant for "oh shit, rifle's empty, need to kill this guy before I can reload" kind of situations.

Mar 22, 2011#157

Officer_Charon

Yeah, I was fortunate enough to receive some training from a former LINE instructor... "With a STOMP! and a SMASH!"

They discontinued LINE because a Geiger Tiger went out into Jacksonville, got drunk and stupid, and ended up committing Aggravated Battery on someone in a bar. Dumbass... there's always one...

Mar 22, 2011#158

Null

See, that right there proves he didn't pay attention - if he had executed properly, it should have been manslaughter.

May 6, 2011#159

IronBrig4

I know this is necroposting, but Casey has made Justin Bieber cool.

May 7, 2011#160

North_Ranger

Did... did you... did you just call Justin Bieber cool?
Time to git mah whoopass gloves...

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