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Gaming Rig

#1

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

I'm thinking of asking for just one thing for Christmas this year: a really good gaming PC. I'll pay part of it and see if my folks will help pay for the rest. My brother-in-law can order the parts and likely for pretty good prices. He's a good tech guy and can put it together for me, too.

So with that in mind, what would you guys suggest? I'm probably looking to spend no more than around $1,000. I don't know if get a monitor, keyboard, speakers, etc, within that price range and still get a good rig. I doubt it. Is there something doable there?

I guess I'm just tired of using my notebook for gaming, since it can run older games or indie games at best (and even then, not always, since it doesn't run Rogue Legacy very smoothly).


#2

PatrThom

PatrThom

Gonna do anything else with it besides game?

--Patrick


#3

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

Surfing, writing, downloading and watching shows and movies, maybe. Though I tend to copy those onto a USB stick and watch them on the PS3. This would unquestionably be primarily a gaming PC.

Most games I play have been indie games, but I'd like to be able to play some good, high-end games. Obviously, we don't know what the requirements are yet, but I want to be able to play Arkham Knight with this rig. It's the only next-gen console game I'm interested in so far and really, I don't know want to get a new console just for one game if I can get it on PC and then have access to a bunch of other games on Steam. Maybe finally play Skyrim and play around with all these mods people talk about. Or get into some more online game with a PC that can play the higher up games (I can't play, say, Payday or Killing Floor with my notebook). I imagine if I can get a good rig, I won't have to worry about getting another good a good long while.

I just googled Akrham Knight PC requirements and found this. It has a prediction for requirements. I'm almost afraid for what kind of rig I'd need for it:
http://www.game-debate.com/games/index.php?g_id=17044&game=Batman: Arkham Knight

I also probably wouldn't need a disc drive, since I haven't needed one in years.


#4

PatrThom

PatrThom

Do you have anything you can reuse? Either things you were planning to reuse, or components that will just "fill in" until you can replace them with something better?
(this would be things like using a regular HDD for the extra 6 months it would take you to finally save up to get a SSD, for instance)

--Patrick


#5

Dave

Dave

I'm running without an SSD. I know it would be nice for system loads, but it's not a must have kind of thing and drives up the price. The big thing you'll miss out on would be a monitor. If you can score one of those (or use a TV for a short period of time) then it gets fairly easy to get a killer gaming rig for less than $1000.

Go look at completed builds on PC Part Picker. That place is the best!


#6

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

PatrThom said:
Do you have anything you can reuse? Either things you were planning to reuse, or components that will just "fill in" until you can replace them with something better?
(this would be things like using a regular HDD for the extra 6 months it would take you to finally save up to get a SSD, for instance)

--Patrick
Click to expand...
I have a notebook and an external HD.

That's it.


#7

Necronic

Necronic

well...you could always turn the external hard drive into an internal one. Make sure it doesn't have some goofy proprietary formatting to it though. Made that mistake with my Black Armor NAS, was a pain to sort out, but I did eventually just get it in as a normal HDD.


#8

GasBandit

GasBandit

You can get a pretty damn good gaming rig for $900, though you'll have to scale back some if you also need things like a monitor and mouse/kb. I'd suggest taking a look at TechReport's latest system guide (I posted it in the sticky in this tech forum) and working from the "econobox" build, and maybe swap out pieces until you get where you want to be. I do recommend going nvidia over AMD, incidentally.


#9

Necronic

Necronic

For an econo box AMD may be a lot cheaper though, especially for CPUs. You pay a premium for IntelInside (TM). You used to at least. I have an i5 4670k and its brilliant (overclocks like a champ!), but its still quite pricey.


#10

PatrThom

PatrThom

All right, my last question for now is: Do you play to upgrade this more in the future (i.e., will you save up to swap out a couple key parts in the next year or two)? Or do you want something complete that you can seal up and forget about until it's time to replace it with your next system?

--Patrick


#11

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

PatrThom said:
All right, my last question for now is: Do you play to upgrade this more in the future (i.e., will you save up to swap out a couple key parts in the next year or two)? Or do you want something complete that you can seal up and forget about until it's time to replace it with your next system?

--Patrick
Click to expand...
Probably something upgradable.


#12

Necronic

Necronic

If you want to be able to upgrade it then you wan to go heavy on the motherboard. Best out there right now are the ROG boards, but they aren't cheap, like 250ish.


#13

PatrThom

PatrThom

Ok, here's what I got:
GasBandit said:
You can get a pretty damn good gaming rig for $900
Click to expand...
Code: 
 $90 - BOX Corsair Carbide 240
$140 - PSU Seasonic SS-750KM3
$120 - MLB MSI Z97M-G43
$240 - CPU Intel i5-4690K
 $90 - RAM G.Skill Ares 2x4GB DDR3-1600 CAS 8-8-8-24
 $80 - HDD Seagate ST1000DX001 1TB SSHD
$140 -  OS Win7/8 x64 OEM
====
$900 - Total
(all prices sourced from Newegg, you might do better if you shop around)
Necronic said:
If you want to be able to upgrade it then you wan to go heavy on the motherboard.
Click to expand...
Just couldn't fit the ROG board in there and still leave plenty of headroom (for things like a keyboard/mouse/cables/etc), although if you (i.e., @ThatNickGuy ) are comfortable slashing the surplus down to only $10, It would actually be the better choice. You can get one for about $210 over at Newegg, though that would add $90 bringing the total up to $990, drastically reducing what you would have available for "extras."

The Rationale:

-The Corsair case has plenty of room and plenty of cooling, and that cooling is provided by 120mm fans, which means it will be reasonably quiet.

-The power supply is 750W, which should be enough for any graphics card you ever cram into that box. It is also one of the higher-end Seasonics, which is a bit like saying "it's one of the premium Bentleys."

-The motherboard uses the Z97 chipset, which is the second-best one Intel has these days, and it is one of the ones which has an M.2 slot onboard, which you can fill with a scorching fast SSD later. The fact that the board has a Z97 chipset means you would then have the choice of using a big SSD as a blazing fast C: drive OR use Intel's RST to combine a smaller (i.e., cheaper) M.2 and a larger HDD into a single, much faster volume. The MSI looked like the cheapest "quality" board that had the M.2 slot, but the ROG board has a much better network/LAN controller, which I would recommend over the MSI except for the +$90 in cost.

-The CPU is one of Intel's newest "Devil's Canyon" more overclocker-friendly models, which means it should be relatively easy to push the clock speed up an additional 10% without any sort of exotic equipment. Reviewers have found that they're ultimately not as overclockable as Intel originally claimed they would be, but the newer "features" mean yours should at least be more stable/less crashy than the model it replaced.

-The RAM is just quality RAM. Testing has shown that, for gaming, running your ram at blistering 2000+ speeds doesn't net you as much performance as the extra money would imply. Better to get something that runs at a lower frequency BUT has a lower timing (the CAS 8 stuff).

-The HDD is "only" a 1TB, but it has an extra 8GB of flash memory on-board, meaning that the most commonly accessed files (such as boot/system files) will be held in much faster memory, and therefore boost speed.

-The OS. Get Win7 pro or Win8.1 pro according to your preference. Get the Win7 if you have leftover XP applications (NOT games, I mean things like Word and such) that you want to keep running in Win7Pro's included XP virtual machine, otherwise get 8.1 because Microsoft has made it clear that they're going to start ignoring anyone who doesn't have at least 8.x pretty soon.

"But what about the graphics card?" I hear you ask. Ah. Well, due to the budget constraints, you'll either have to repurpose an old one, borrow one from your friend, or just get by on the built-in Intel graphics (which are about equivalent to midrange Radeon 4xxx/Geforce 5xx series). I know it will mean playing games at lower settings, but the 2 months you spend playing on low settings while you save up for something newer are going to be 100% completely worth being able to afford getting the rest of the top-shelf hardware under you for the time being. Barring equipment failure or some wild shift in technology, that core system should be able to easily last you 3-5 years, and the only future upgrades you'd have to do to stay current would be to add the M.2 card, increase the RAM to at least 16GB, and get whatever the newer video card du jour is 3 years from now. Future you will appreciate your thrift.

--Patrick


#14

PatrThom

PatrThom

Bumped after making lots of edits.

--Patrick


#15

PatrThom

PatrThom

I know I'm one of the go-to hardware resources around here, but I didn't mean to kill this thread I swear.

--Patrick


#16

GasBandit

GasBandit

I don't have much to add. As usual, I forgot to figure the cost of the OS into the build (After so many years of doing so, it became ingrained in me to assume I'd be either pirating or reinstalling the OS I already have), which really chokes money out that could have been used on a dedicated GPU. As such though, it's still going to be a step up from an old gaming laptop... and once you save up $150 bucks, you can slap a decent budget GPU in it sometime next year and have an excellent box that will run just about anything at 60fps/1080p.


#17

Dave

Dave

See, now I'd do everything in my power to get a video card in there. Using on-board chipsets just won't do it and can't play shit.

Using PCPart Picker, I get this:

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/sDsQhM

PC Parts.png

Note this has the same CPU/RAM as above and has an Intel Z97 motherboard, but it also adds the video card. Overall price? $963.89. Yes, a GTX 760 is fairly old tech, but it will play almost everything you have on medium/high levels and still benchmarks #24 on the charts. Using on-board graphics means you won't be able to play most new games on anything but the lowest settings if you can play them at all.


#18

Eriol

Eriol

If anybody is actually wanting to help him, remember: CANADA.

Try these sites:

http://www.newegg.ca/
http://www.memoryexpress.com/
http://www.ncix.com/

Or any other relatively reputable Canadian site. Most of the time, the shipping/duty from the USA kills any kind of value in getting components from there, and the last two there (and hopefully newegg) will also put it together for you if needed.


#19

PatrThom

PatrThom

Eriol said:
If anybody is actually wanting to help him, remember: CANADA.
Click to expand...
I thought about that after I put the list together, but hadn't checked. I assumed he'd speak up if it was a problem ("Hey this is a no-go because Canada, any idea?"). Most retailers have a Canadian presence.
Dave said:
See, now I'd do everything in my power to get a video card in there. Using on-board chipsets just won't do it and can't play shit.
Click to expand...
GasBandit said:
As usual, I forgot to figure the cost of the OS into the build
Click to expand...
I agree, and I really tried to cut some other corner that would get a better (i.e., independent) graphics card in there, and had a really nice build put together that had one, but then I realized I hadn't included the OS in my price list either and I was all GRAAAAHSTARTOVER. My choices then either boiled down to substituting a different CPU/MLB (Pentium G3258 and/or cheaper Z97 MLB if you're curious) to keep the budget low enough to include a discrete GPU, but that would mean having to break the system down to upgrade the CPU later (G3258 only has 2 cores, i5 has 4), which sounded annoying. I know that *I* would have no problem suffering with integrated video for a month or two until I could upgrade, but I know Nick's level of patience tends to vary from time to time.

I didn't include a heatsink/fan because the build included the retail version of the CPU, which comes with the stock HSF.
Right now, the recommendations for ~$150 GPUs are split between the GTX 750Ti/R9 270x depending on if you want to go NVIDIA/AMD. You don't really hit the next level of performance until the price tag rises above the $225 line.

--Patrick


#20

Ravenpoe

Ravenpoe

In my experience, as long as you have a half decent case with good airflow, the stock cpu cooler is fine unless you're overclocking.


#21

GasBandit

GasBandit

The last couple CPUs I bought didn't come with coolers at all.


#22

PatrThom

PatrThom

So-called "OEM" processors usually are just a chip and maybe a chunk of foam to keep the pins/pads from getting ruined. The ones labeled "Retail Box" usually come with a HSF.

--Patrick


#23

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

So I talked with my brother in law about it tonight. Showed him the specs for Arkham Knight and he thinks the system he can get me (for $800-$900) should not only hit the mark, but far surpass it. I didn't even know core processors were as high as i7, now. I told him the game is built essentially for the current generation systems, which he said is a joke compared to what PC systems are capable of. From what I've seen, I believe him.

He also suggested getting an SSD and installing Windows and games on that so that they run almost instantly. I can't recall what case he suggested, but he preferred something else over the Cosair. Something about its door breaking off often.

Anyway, looks like it's become a strong possibility I'm getting a new gaming rig for Christmas. I've already said to my folks that:
1) This would be all I'm getting for Christmas.
2) I'll pay for part of it.
3) It will also count for my birthday present for next May.
4) The past few years, my sister has just been giving me $100 cash. So instead, it can just go towards this.

So I'm probably looking to pay about $400 of this, myself.

In the meantime, I'll probably keep an eye on Humble Bundles for games to really test out this new system. I'm eyeing the current Bundle that has Saints Row IV, for example. I have Metro 2033 already in my library that's never been installed. Same for Payday. Looking forward to playing Civilization V, since this notebook can't run it. Ditto Rogue Legacy, which sadly runs very choppy on this. If I can get it super cheap, I might finally give Skyrim a run and try out some mods. Weird as it sounds, I want to replay through the Half-Life games and see what they look like on the highest settings. Same for TF2.

Any other suggestions?


#24

GasBandit

GasBandit

ThatNickGuy said:
So I talked with my brother in law about it tonight. Showed him the specs for Arkham Knight and he thinks the system he can get me (for $800-$900) should not only hit the mark, but far surpass it. I didn't even know core processors were as high as i7, now. I told him the game is built essentially for the current generation systems, which he said is a joke compared to what PC systems are capable of. From what I've seen, I believe him.

He also suggested getting an SSD and installing Windows and games on that so that they run almost instantly. I can't recall what case he suggested, but he preferred something else over the Cosair. Something about its door breaking off often.

Anyway, looks like it's become a strong possibility I'm getting a new gaming rig for Christmas. I've already said to my folks that:
1) This would be all I'm getting for Christmas.
2) I'll pay for part of it.
3) It will also count for my birthday present for next May.
4) The past few years, my sister has just been giving me $100 cash. So instead, it can just go towards this.

So I'm probably looking to pay about $400 of this, myself.

In the meantime, I'll probably keep an eye on Humble Bundles for games to really test out this new system. I'm eyeing the current Bundle that has Saints Row IV, for example. I have Metro 2033 already in my library that's never been installed. Same for Payday. Looking forward to playing Civilization V, since this notebook can't run it. Ditto Rogue Legacy, which sadly runs very choppy on this. If I can get it super cheap, I might finally give Skyrim a run and try out some mods. Weird as it sounds, I want to replay through the Half-Life games and see what they look like on the highest settings. Same for TF2.

Any other suggestions?
Click to expand...
Only install games on the SSD you know you'll never uninstall, and will pay constantly. TF2 is a good one to do so with, though, it really helps the load times. Wait for a steam sale for Skyrim and you'll be able to pick it up really cheap.

Meanwhile, I've got an extra copy of Torchlight 2 sitting in my gift inventory if you want it.

Also, there's lots of good free games you can try. War Thunder, for one. DC Universe Online isn't all that bad. You can also try DOTA 2 (or League of Legends, if you prefer that flavor, or even Smite) if you wanna see what all this MOBA nonsense is about, Path of Exile will definitely scratch any Diablo-RPG itch you've got. Planetside 2 is a pretty good free MMOFPS. Might also give Loadout a try (kinda similar to TF2 but with customized weaponry). If you like big stompy shooty robots, give Hawken or (wincing as I say this) Mechwarrior Online a try. All of those are free to play.


#25

PatrThom

PatrThom

-If you're going to get a "pure" SSD as your main drive (rather than the SSHD or "fusion" setup), get at least a 240. You pay a heavy performance penalty for drives smaller than that. It has to do with how SSDs distribute the load across their flash chips, and < 240 drives don't use enough chips to fill all the channels.
-That Carbide 240 case only came out in August of 2014, so I wonder exactly how many reports of breaking doors there are out there. I could only find reports of the thumbscrews breaking. I wonder if he's confusing it with the Carbide 540, which looks almost the same in pictures but is a much larger case (and has been out since mid-2013).
-You didn't mention what power supply you were getting, but make sure it will be enough to comfortably power not only everything you are installing now, but also everything you are GOING to install, and make sure it has enough reserve capacity. For instance, if you need 550W total, make sure you get at least a 650W PSU, because PSUs lose power and efficiency as they age. A good rule of thumb is to total up everything you're ever going to need and then add 20-25% to account for this future sagging.
-i7's are nice, but you don't usually get enough extra fps out of them to really be worth the price premium over the i5's. I'm not saying to skip an i7, they do have hyperthreading and larger caches (which is basically what makes them an i7 instead of an i5), but the price difference can be drastic compared to the equivalent i5. Incidentally, Intel is not "up to" i7's right now, that's just their name for their top tier processors. It's the 4-digit number and single letter you want to pay attention to (3770k, 4650S or whatever) rather than the i-whatever.

Can't really make any other recommendations since you didn't say which CPU and MLB you'd be going with.

Regardless of how things go, please let us know your final system makeup, so we can all learn from your experiences.

--Patrick


#26

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

GasBandit said:
Only install games on the SSD you know you'll never uninstall, and will pay constantly. TF2 is a good one to do so with, though, it really helps the load times. Wait for a steam sale for Skyrim and you'll be able to pick it up really cheap.

Meanwhile, I've got an extra copy of Torchlight 2 sitting in my gift inventory if you want it.

Also, there's lots of good free games you can try. War Thunder, for one. DC Universe Online isn't all that bad. You can also try DOTA 2 (or League of Legends, if you prefer that flavor, or even Smite) if you wanna see what all this MOBA nonsense is about, Path of Exile will definitely scratch any Diablo-RPG itch you've got. Planetside 2 is a pretty good free MMOFPS. Might also give Loadout a try (kinda similar to TF2 but with customized weaponry). If you like big stompy shooty robots, give Hawken or (wincing as I say this) Mechwarrior Online a try. All of those are free to play.
Click to expand...
Thanks, that's some good advice. I'm not one for big stompy robots, to be honest. And I've yet to try any MOBAs (don't even know what that stands for, honestly). Been thinking of getting back into some kind of an MMO, but none have really caught my interest. Though I've had a City of Heroes itch lately and DCUO might scratch it. Might give Champions a second try because I didn't mind the brief time I played that.

Good advice on the SSD, though. TF2 would definitely be a permanent stay. Awesomenauts would be another for me.[DOUBLEPOST=1416284229,1416284114][/DOUBLEPOST]
PatrThom said:
-If you're going to get a "pure" SSD as your main drive (rather than the SSHD or "fusion" setup), get at least a 240. You pay a heavy performance penalty for drives smaller than that. It has to do with how SSDs distribute the load across their flash chips, and < 240 drives don't use enough chips to fill all the channels.
-That Carbide 240 case only came out in August of 2014, so I wonder exactly how many reports of breaking doors there are out there. I could only find reports of the thumbscrews breaking. I wonder if he's confusing it with the Carbide 540, which looks almost the same in pictures but is a much larger case (and has been out since mid-2013).
-You didn't mention what power supply you were getting, but make sure it will be enough to comfortably power not only everything you are installing now, but also everything you are GOING to install, and make sure it has enough reserve capacity. For instance, if you need 550W total, make sure you get at least a 650W PSU, because PSUs lose power and efficiency as they age. A good rule of thumb is to total up everything you're ever going to need and then add 20-25% to account for this future sagging.
-i7's are nice, but you don't usually get enough extra fps out of them to really be worth the price premium over the i5's. I'm not saying to skip an i7, they do have hyperthreading and larger caches (which is basically what makes them an i7 instead of an i5), but the price difference can be drastic compared to the equivalent i5. Incidentally, Intel is not "up to" i7's right now, that's just their name for their top tier processors. It's the 4-digit number and single letter you want to pay attention to (3770k, 4650S or whatever) rather than the i-whatever.

Can't really make any other recommendations since you didn't say which CPU and MLB you'd be going with.

Regardless of how things go, please let us know your final system makeup, so we can all learn from your experiences.

--Patrick
Click to expand...
Thing is, I get really lost in all these technical details. Which is why I've been kind of silent with this thread. I honestly don't understand half the things you're talking about. But I know my brother in laws knows his stuff. He's a big tech guy, worked with computers most of his life, including building some of mine, and has a really great system himself right now.


#27

PatrThom

PatrThom

ThatNickGuy said:
I honestly don't understand half the things you're talking about. But I know my brother in laws knows his stuff. He's a big tech guy, worked with computers most of his life, including building some of mine, and has a really great system himself right now.
Click to expand...
I didn't know you weren't tech-savvy, sorry. I figured you would let me know when it started getting too technobabble-y for you.
If he's willing, though, I wouldn't mind if you PM'd me his critique of my suggestion. I don't run into too many people who can be bothered to get as "into" hardware as I do, and would like to hear the counterpoint. And no, I'm not asking because I want to pooh-pooh torpedo his ideas. I assume because he's family that he is trying to do his best for you, and so I am interested in what he knows (through experience OR research) that I don't.

I will also understand if he can't be bothered. People got lives. :)

--Patrick


#28

GasBandit

GasBandit

As a DC comic fan, you owe it to yourself to play to level 20 in DCUO, if for no other reason than to hear Arleen Sorkin's voice acting swan song. This was the last time she played Harley Quinn. Also they got Kevin Conroy to voice Batman and Mark Hamill to voice Joker. Adam Baldwin and Gina Torres are a little miscast as Supes and Wonder Woman, if you ask me, but I'm willing to let it slide on Firefly cred.


#29

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

So here's what he just sent me @PatrThom. What do you think? Again, I'm kind of a luddite when it comes to most of this.

This doesn't include Windows 8, but he thinks he has a copy of 7 around somewhere. So feel free to talk stupid to me about it. Think "speedy thing goes in, speedy thing goes out." :p

http://pc.ncix.com/ncixpc/ncixpc.cfm?uuid=0F280B6E-EBAC-486D-A8CAE67706A843EE-6132039


#30

Eriol

Eriol

ThatNickGuy said:
So here's what he just sent me @PatrThom. What do you think? Again, I'm kind of a luddite when it comes to most of this.

This doesn't include Windows 8, but he thinks he has a copy of 7 around somewhere. So feel free to talk stupid to me about it. Think "speedy thing goes in, speedy thing goes out." :p

http://pc.ncix.com/ncixpc/ncixpc.cfm?uuid=0F280B6E-EBAC-486D-A8CAE67706A843EE-6132039
Click to expand...
Seems OK. I "feel" like it's possible to get a better deal, but I don't have specific knowledge.


#31

PatrThom

PatrThom

ThatNickGuy said:
So feel free to talk stupid to me about it.
Click to expand...
That's one of the MLBs I was considering. I would take the step up to the 240GB SSD (for reasons I go into above) and the 500W power supply means you will only ever be able to use ONE graphics card, though if you are never going to add a second one then this should not be a problem.

Just make sure that the Win7 he is offering you is the 64-bit version. :)

--Patrick


#32

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

So Mike (brother in law) e-mailed me this morning. The one he sent was just a quick, 30-minute check to see what he could find within around my price range. One thing he mentioned is that he likely has spare parts around that he's not using that he could add to the system. For example, "I already have a 750w Gold series power supply and maybe even a 2Tb drive outta my NAS, that I can add to the cause if we build one. I think by picking and choosing some separate components as they come up on sale over Black Friday and cyber Monday we might be able to whittle this down enough to get a decent monitor included in the $1000+tx price point."

He later said in the e-mail that he thinks he might have a spare 24" LED since he himself switched to a dual screen.

He also stated: "I read Patrick’s system recommends and they are right on and he’s right the case I was thinking of was an older one. The Carbide 240 is nice box. I am running a Coolermaster HAF932, I think and it’s a SWEET box so I am partial."

One thing he did add is with Black Friday coming up, we can probably find all kinds of crazy good deals on parts.

Here's a refurbished one he found, too. Says the video card is pretty weak, but that could be upgraded (or have a second one added) later. At this point, I'm leaning more towards the first one he suggested or something similar.
http://www.nmicrovip.ca/asus-core-i...-2g-dvdrw-windows-8-m11ad-ca003s-refurbished/

If I CAN get one cheaper, all the better, but I'd like to get a good rig that will last me awhile before I need to upgrade again any time soon. That's the ideal, anyway. I don't know how realistic it is.


#33

GasBandit

GasBandit

ThatNickGuy said:
If I CAN get one cheaper, all the better, but I'd like to get a good rig that will last me awhile before I need to upgrade again any time soon. That's the ideal, anyway. I don't know how realistic it is.
Click to expand...
Depends on how important playing the "newest" games are to you. If so, you're looking at ~$200 every 2 or 3 years on a video card upgrade. If not, any of the builds discussed here will last you until it breaks. My last machine lasted me 7 years with no upgrades - only stopped using it when the video card finally gave up the ghost because there'd been a major architecture revision since I built 'er up so I needed a new motherboard, which meant I basically needed a new PC. Of course, the video card I had bought that lasted 7 years was $500 in 2007.... and now the card I'm using cost less than $200 and already outperforms it. C'est la PC gaming.


#34

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

GasBandit said:
Depends on how important playing the "newest" games are to you. If so, you're looking at ~$200 every 2 or 3 years on a video card upgrade. If not, any of the builds discussed here will last you until it breaks. My last machine lasted me 7 years with no upgrades - only stopped using it when the video card finally gave up the ghost because there'd been a major architecture revision since I built 'er up so I needed a new motherboard, which meant I basically needed a new PC. Of course, the video card I had bought that lasted 7 years was $500 in 2007.... and now the card I'm using cost less than $200 and already outperforms it. C'est la PC gaming.
Click to expand...
Well, my keystone game right now is Arkham Knight. But I WOULD like to be able to play some of the newest games in the future. $200 every 2-3 years sounds reasonable to me, honestly. Would it be just the video card I'd need to upgrade, for the most part?


#35

GasBandit

GasBandit

ThatNickGuy said:
Well, my keystone game right now is Arkham Knight. But I WOULD like to be able to play some of the newest games in the future. $200 every 2-3 years sounds reasonable to me, honestly. Would it be just the video card I'd need to upgrade, for the most part?
Click to expand...
Usually. Maybe RAM down the road too, but probably only once, and that's really inexpensive. Oh, and if you suddenly turn into a torrent addict, you might end up buying external hard drives every 6 months ;)

And since Arkham Knight is developed for console, I doubt it'd be an issue. It's the PC exclusives that'll generally tax your rig. Aside from MMOs. Those also usually try to keep their requirements low so as to be accessible to as many people as possible. Heck, WoW 's still king of the MMO pile and you can play it with onboard video, on most laptops these days.


#36

Ravenpoe

Ravenpoe

If you can whittle the price down enough, you might look at seeing if you can fit a Nvidia Geforce GTX 970 into the build. It's a pricey card at around $350, and it might be overkill on the stuff you want to play, but it's a beast of a card at its pricepoint. And I speak from experience that once you enter the glorious PC Master Race, your attitude quickly changes from "I just want to be able to run games at decent settings" to "WHY CAN'T I TURN THIS UP TO STUPID-MAX? MORE POWAH!"


#37

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

GasBandit said:
Usually. Maybe RAM down the road too, but probably only once, and that's really inexpensive. Oh, and if you suddenly turn into a torrent addict, you might end up buying external hard drives every 6 months ;)

And since Arkham Knight is developed for console, I doubt it'd be an issue. It's the PC exclusives that'll generally tax your rig. Aside from MMOs. Those also usually try to keep their requirements low so as to be accessible to as many people as possible. Heck, WoW 's still king of the MMO pile and you can play it with onboard video, on most laptops these days.
Click to expand...
Heh, yeah, Mike was telling me about the difference between the recommended combined speed that Gaming Debate figured and the combined speed for the first system he suggested. It was a difference of 2800 or 4900 to 11,700. :eek: I knew PC still reigned supreme in terms of computing power, but cripes, I had no idea.[DOUBLEPOST=1416324438,1416324295][/DOUBLEPOST]
Ravenpoe said:
If you can whittle the price down enough, you might look at seeing if you can fit a Nvidia Geforce GTX 970 into the build. It's a pricey card at around $350, and it might be overkill on the stuff you want to play, but it's a beast of a card at its pricepoint. And I speak from experience that once you enter the glorious PC Master Race, your attitude quickly changes from "I just want to be able to run games at decent settings" to "WHY CAN'T I TURN THIS UP TO STUPID-MAX? MORE POWAH!"
Click to expand...
Oh god, I'm going to turn into the PC equivilent of Tim "The Toolman" Taylor, aren't I?


#38

Ravenpoe

Ravenpoe

ThatNickGuy said:
Oh god, I'm going to turn into the PC equivilent of Tim "The Toolman" Taylor, aren't I?
Click to expand...
Yes, but with less cocaine.


#39

Eriol

Eriol

Also, you gave MMO examples earlier without mentioning Rift. Also free to play (now) and very very solid, and a lot more solid than a lot of other F2P games (and many pay too, arguably).


I agree with waiting until black friday. Retailers even in Canada observe it with specials.


#40

PatrThom

PatrThom

ThatNickGuy said:
Oh god, I'm going to turn into the PC equivilent of Tim "The Toolman" Taylor, aren't I?
Click to expand...
If you're not replacing your system every year, you're always going to be behind somehow. The trick is to look at the parts that are the hardest to replace/would require the most changes to replace and buy into the best you can for those. RAM and GPU are easy to replace, for instance. Adding extra USB ports is easy to do with a new card. Swapping CPU or MLB? Not as easy, since replacing one usually means replacing the other and often many other parts of your system as well.

Also, repurposing a 750W Gold PSU + a 2TB drive from his slush pile could reclaim $200 or so for your budget, which is enough to pick up a very capable video card.

--Patrick


#41

bhamv3

bhamv3

I have nothing to really contribute, I just wanted to say that I bought my gaming rig merely a year ago, but this thread is already making me feel really inadequate.


#42

CrimsonSoul

CrimsonSoul

bhamv3 said:
I have nothing to really contribute, I just wanted to say that I bought my gaming rig merely a year ago, but this thread is already making me feel really inadequate.
Click to expand...
Is not about the size of your gaming rig, is how you use it!


#43

bhamv3

bhamv3

CrimsonSoul said:
Is not about the size of your gaming rig, is how you use it!
Click to expand...
By playing Skyrim modded with all the skimpy female armors I can find!


#44

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

Someone in my city is selling a Samsung Syncmaster 21.6bw monitor for $50.

Link:
http://www.kijiji.ca/v-monitors/city-of-halifax/samsung-syncmaster-216bw/1034660897

Good deal for a monitor?


#45

GasBandit

GasBandit

ThatNickGuy said:
Someone in my city is selling a Samsung Syncmaster 21.6bw monitor for $50.

Link:
http://www.kijiji.ca/v-monitors/city-of-halifax/samsung-syncmaster-216bw/1034660897

Good deal for a monitor?
Click to expand...
Yes, provided it's got no dead pixels or other visible damage. I also prefer the 16:10 aspect ratio, would would bias me in favor of snagging that particular monitor. Its only drawback seems to be that it has no HDMI inputs, but that's not such a big deal really. Your video card will have DVI outputs which this monitor does have.


#46

PatrThom

PatrThom

Probably getting rid of it because it's juuuuuust under 1080.
Only matters for you if that matters to you.
I would ask to have it hooked up to something before any money changes hands, just to look for any dead/stuck pixels.

--Patrick


#47

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

Okay, so Mike may have found me a pretty good Black Friday deal:

http://pc.ncix.com/ncixpc_new/ncixpc.cfm?uuid=2D2E2001-819C-4A83-AD1D1B02A439A4C5-6165821

It's an AMD processor instead of Intel, but from a little bit of googling, it sounds like there's not a huge different in performance.

The only thing I might upgrade here is the power supply. Default is 500W, but go up to the 750W gold for $67.


#48

GasBandit

GasBandit

ThatNickGuy said:
Okay, so Mike may have found me a pretty good Black Friday deal:

http://pc.ncix.com/ncixpc_new/ncixpc.cfm?uuid=2D2E2001-819C-4A83-AD1D1B02A439A4C5-6165821

It's an AMD processor instead of Intel, but from a little bit of googling, it sounds like there's not a huge different in performance.

The only thing I might upgrade here is the power supply. Default is 500W, but go up to the 750W gold for $67.
Click to expand...
That's more or less the same machine I'm gaming on right now. A 270x is a decent video card.


#49

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

And ORDERED. Only thing I added was a wireless network adapter and a 2 TB drive, since the only thing it had with it was an SSD.


#50

PatrThom

PatrThom

Games go ga-ga for single-threaded performance. Usually what that means is the higher the clockspeed, the faster the game will play, but chip design and architecture can also help, so that's why benchmarks such as this exist.
For things that use multiple cores (like video transcoding or most file compression), 8 full-on "native" cores will beat out 4 hyperthreaded cores (4 physical + 4 logical) since the hyperthreaded "virtual" cores do not perform anywhere near as well as the actual, physical cores. Right now, AMD can put more physical cores under you for your money than Intel can, but since Intel holds the IPC (Instructions Per Clock) crown, and since games right now do not really benefit from the additional cores, that's why Intel ends up being "best" for gaming.

--Patrick


#51

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

I only understood like 10% of that.


#52

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

I should also add that I took advantage of a Black Friday sale today and got this:

http://www.staples.ca/en/Samsung-LS27D360HS-ZC-27-inch-LED-Monitor/product_1021362_2-CA_1_20001

Oh yeah. The gaming. It's coming. Especially since buying through AMD, I also get Steam codes for three free games. Any three from this list. The guy I spoke with on the phone that helped me with my ordered strongly recommended Alien Isolation and Star Citizen. Thoughts?

http://sites.amd.com/us/promo/never-settle/Pages/never-settle.aspx

Personally I've narrowed down the possibilities to Tomb Raider, Saints Row IV, Alien Isolation, Star Citizen, and Sleeping Dogs. I would say Just Cause 2, but that'll be super dirt cheap on Steam, I'm sure.


#53

PatrThom

PatrThom

ThatNickGuy said:
I only understood like 10% of that.
Click to expand...
  • Right now games only do one or two things at a time.
  • This means games play best on CPUs that are fastest at doing one or two things at a time.
  • Intel's (consumer) CPUs are the best at doing up to 4 things at a time.
  • Therefore, Intel CPUs are the best for games right now.
  • AMD CPUs aren't as fast at doing only 1-2 things.
  • Intel chips can do > 5 things at once, but they have to "cheat" their 4 cores to do it (via Hyperthreading).
  • Hyperthreading is not as efficient/powerful as having > 4 real cores present on the CPU.
  • AMD will sell you CPUs with 6 or 8 actual cores for less $$$ than Intel's 2- or 4-core "fake-it-with-Hyperthreading" CPUs.
  • Therefore, AMD is the best choice for video/multitasking/rendering.
  • Also since the integrated video card in AMD chips usually stomps Intel, you usually don't even need a GPU (for simple games)
--Patrick


#54

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

PatrThom said:
  • Right now games only do one or two things at a time.
  • This means games play best on CPUs that are fastest at doing one or two things at a time.
  • Intel's (consumer) CPUs are the best at doing up to 4 things at a time.
  • Therefore, Intel CPUs are the best for games right now.

  • AMD CPUs aren't as fast at doing only 1-2 things.
  • Intel chips can do > 5 things at once, but they have to "cheat" their 4 cores to do it (via Hyperthreading).
  • Hyperthreading is not as efficient/powerful as having > 4 real cores present on the CPU.
  • AMD will sell you CPUs with 6 or 8 actual cores for less $$$ than Intel's 2- or 4-core "fake-it-with-Hyperthreading" CPUs.
  • Therefore, AMD is the best choice for video/multitasking/rendering.
  • Also since the integrated video card in AMD chips usually stomps Intel, you usually don't even need a GPU (for simple games)
--Patrick
Click to expand...
So...in other words, what I got was a pretty good choice?


#55

PatrThom

PatrThom

ThatNickGuy said:
So...in other words, what I got was a pretty good choice?
Click to expand...
It's about 2/3 as fast at gaming as the CPU I recommended above, but it costs around 60% less and should be right about on par when it comes to things like watching Netflix/Hulu, or surfing the Web, or anything else where it can spread the work around to all of its 6 cores.

Also, it's still going to be a noticeable step up from anything you have now, assuming what you have now more than 3 years old.

--Patrick


#56

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

PatrThom said:
It's about 2/3 as fast at gaming as the CPU I recommended above, but it costs around 60% less and should be right about on par when it comes to things like watching Netflix/Hulu, or surfing the Web, or anything else where it can spread the work around to all of its 6 cores.

Also, it's still going to be a noticeable step up from anything you have now, assuming what you have now more than 3 years old.

--Patrick
Click to expand...
Honestly, what I have now is a notebook (netbook? I don't even know the proper term; it's a tiny laptop), which barely runs even Rogue Legacy on low settings.

But it'll still run the games I want, right? Not to repeat myself, but Arkham Knight when it comes out?


#57

GasBandit

GasBandit

ThatNickGuy said:
I should also add that I took advantage of a Black Friday sale today and got this:

http://www.staples.ca/en/Samsung-LS27D360HS-ZC-27-inch-LED-Monitor/product_1021362_2-CA_1_20001

Oh yeah. The gaming. It's coming. Especially since buying through AMD, I also get Steam codes for three free games. Any three from this list. The guy I spoke with on the phone that helped me with my ordered strongly recommended Alien Isolation and Star Citizen. Thoughts?

http://sites.amd.com/us/promo/never-settle/Pages/never-settle.aspx

Personally I've narrowed down the possibilities to Tomb Raider, Saints Row IV, Alien Isolation, Star Citizen, and Sleeping Dogs. I would say Just Cause 2, but that'll be super dirt cheap on Steam, I'm sure.
Click to expand...
Star citizen isn't out yet, it's still VERY in development. That said, it's the most talked-about upcoming PC game on earth right now, so if it were me, I'd use that as one of my choices. If you don't have Saints Row 4, grab it, but make sure you get and play Saints Row 3 first if you haven't already. For the third game, yes, Just Cause 2 is dirt cheap on steam. If you haven't played Deus Ex, GET THAT. It's an excellent sci-fi RPG with a great story. If you've already done Deus Ex, the Supreme Commander Gold Edition combo pack is a great way to snag HANDS DOWN THE BEST RTS GAME EVER MADE. Tomb Raider wasn't my thing, but other people like it. Stay away from Sleeping dogs. I dunno anything about Alien Isolation. I was disappointed in Hitman: Absolution. Don't get the Thief remake, either.

I'm also assuming you've played Alan Wake at some point? If you haven't, I think you might like it - the story of a horror author with memory loss who keeps finding pages of his own writing describing what's happening to him in real time is a literary device I really could sink my teeth into. But almost every steam sale it gets down under 10 bucks.

So I guess my recommendations go, in this order,

Star Citizen
Saints Row 4 (but get and play SR3 first)
Deus Ex: Human Revolution
Supreme Commander Gold Edition
Alan Wake[DOUBLEPOST=1417237208,1417237184][/DOUBLEPOST]
ThatNickGuy said:
But it'll still run the games I want, right? Not to repeat myself, but Arkham Knight when it comes out?
Click to expand...
It'll be fine.


#58

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

GasBandit said:
Star Citizen
Saints Row 4 (but get and play SR3 first)
Deus Ex: Human Revolution
Supreme Commander Gold Edition
Click to expand...
Played and beat SR3 on PS3, so yup, that's still a strong possibility. I've honestly yet to play Alan Wake and that might go on the consideration list.

Honestly, I'm not a big RTS fan. I don't have the patience for them. The only reason I love Age of Mythology so much is its use of various mythologies.

And I have very little interest in Deus Ex. Just never been a fan of the series. I also don't like hearing how the game gives you various ways to progress non-violently and yet still force you into boss fights. That's just piss poor design.


#59

GasBandit

GasBandit

It's your call, but I think Deus Ex got a bit of a bum rap. Also, Alan Wake goes on sale all the time as well. It's feckin creepy though.


#60

Ravenpoe

Ravenpoe

Sleeping Dogs was excellent, don't listen to Gas. It's basically True Crime: Hong Kong. In fact, I think it started out with that very title.

Alien Isolation is good shit, but only if you like survival horror, or Alien movies, or both. Especially both. If you love the first Alien movie, it does an incredible job of evoking that same atmosphere.

Saints Row 4 can usually be gotten dirt cheap on steam sales, but it's fun all the same. So is Saints Row 3, in fact, start with that one, because there's no going back from 4. WHY CAN'T I JUMP OVER THIS BUILDING?

DXHR is a good game, but not going to be everyone's cup of tea. If it doesn't fancy you, then don't sweat it, there's plenty of other good games out there.

Hitman... meh.

Tomb Raider was good in a very Uncharted sort of way, which is weird since Uncharted was totally copying Tomb Raider, and they all copy Indiana Jones.


#61

GasBandit

GasBandit

Disregard my comments on Sleeping Dogs, I keep confusing it with Watch Dogs.


#62

Ravenpoe

Ravenpoe

Watch Dogs actually isn't bad, it's just an average open world sandbox game. It's not the stellar game they promised, but it's enjoyable enough. It does have Ubisoft and Uplay stink all over it, though, so... yeah, stay away from that.

If @ThatNickGuy is going to join the PC Gaming Master Race, we have to teach him to be haughty and snub his nose at the likes of UPlay and Origin.


#63

PatrThom

PatrThom

ThatNickGuy said:
But it'll still run the games I want, right? Not to repeat myself, but Arkham Knight when it comes out?
Click to expand...
That system meets or (more often) exceeds the recommended requirements for the game.

As Gas said, It'll be fine.

--Patrick


#64

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

Welp, Tomb Raider is crossed off my options for that 3 free games choices. I nabbed it on GreenManGaming for $5.93. Also got Arkham Origins for $3.99, which is about the price I was willing to pay for that. Strongly thinking of getting the Saints Row complete package that's at Humble Bumble right now for $13.


#65

GasBandit

GasBandit

ThatNickGuy said:
Welp, Tomb Raider is crossed off my options for that 3 free games choices. I nabbed it on GreenManGaming for $5.93. Also got Arkham Origins for $3.99, which is about the price I was willing to pay for that. Strongly thinking of getting the Saints Row complete package that's at Humble Bumble right now for $13.
Click to expand...
It makes me wish I didn't already own 3 and 4 so I could buy them again.

Welcome back to PC gaming ;)


#66

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

GasBandit said:
It makes me wish I didn't already own 3 and 4 so I could buy them again.

Welcome back to PC gaming ;)
Click to expand...
Well, I mean...you could buy them FOR me, just to have that feeling of buying them again. :p

The last time I got a good gaming rig, do you know what I wanted to play on it? Freedom Force. And not long after that, Half-Life 2. I think I did a small upgrade here and there after that. I remember playing City of Heroes on that, as well.[DOUBLEPOST=1417358120,1417357948][/DOUBLEPOST]Also, can I just say that HOLY SHIT, you can get a lot of AAA games dirt cheap during sales. I never looked closely at them because my netbook couldn't run them. But the price knocks even used Gamestop console version prices out of the park.

In the future, I'll be following your general rule, Gas: less than $10 or 75% off, whichever is cheaper.

Wellllll...except for maybe Arkham Knight. Because I can't wait to play that.


#67

GasBandit

GasBandit

ThatNickGuy said:
Wellllll...except for maybe Arkham Knight. Because I can't wait to play that.
Click to expand...
Everybody lapses from time to time. I paid full price for Stick of Truth, and don't regret doing so.


#68

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

GasBandit said:
Everybody lapses from time to time. I paid full price for Stick of Truth, and don't regret doing so.
Click to expand...
When buying for console, I had a mostly firm rule about not spending more than $20. Which in recent years, I've only broken three times: Bioshock Infinite (used, but no regrets), GTA V (on release day, no regrets), and Amazing Spider-Man (oh, holy hell, loads of regrets). Traded them all back in for credit after beating each.


#69

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

Purolator says my new computer is "on vehicle for delivery."


#70

Ravenpoe

Ravenpoe

Soon you will join the PC Master Race, and have strong opinions on framerates and fov sliders.


#71

PatrThom

PatrThom

...and how many buttons a "good" controller requires.

--Patrick


#72

grub

grub

My joystick has 10 buttons, an extra analog d pad a throttle axis, and a hat switch. But I have no controller.


#73

GasBandit

GasBandit

I, for one, can no longer game without a mouse that has at least 7 buttons (3 on top 4 on the thumb)


#74

Ravenpoe

Ravenpoe

My mouse has 17 buttons.


#75

PatrThom

PatrThom

Ravenpoe said:
My mouse has 17 buttons.
Click to expand...
images.jpeg


--Patrick


#76

Ravenpoe

Ravenpoe

PatrThom said:
View attachment 16919

--Patrick
Click to expand...
Close!



#77

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

Speaking of which, what do you guys recommend for a controller? I almost bought the Windows compatible Xbox One controller today. I hear those are generally best for PC gaming. Any other suggestions?


#78

Ravenpoe

Ravenpoe

ThatNickGuy said:
Speaking of which, what do you guys recommend for a controller? I almost bought the Windows compatible Xbox One controller today. I hear those are generally best for PC gaming. Any other suggestions?
Click to expand...
I use a wired 360 controller that I bought used for cheap years ago and is still going strong.


#79

Frank

Frank

ThatNickGuy said:
Speaking of which, what do you guys recommend for a controller? I almost bought the Windows compatible Xbox One controller today. I hear those are generally best for PC gaming. Any other suggestions?
Click to expand...
The One controller is the best for the PC, hands down. I can't even use my wireless 360 controller anymore since getting one despite it being wired.

I do wish though that more controllers had evolved from the 6 face buttons.



The ones that do always have God awful d-pads. You can't get 6 face buttons without shitty d-pads.


#80

GasBandit

GasBandit

ThatNickGuy said:
Speaking of which, what do you guys recommend for a controller? I almost bought the Windows compatible Xbox One controller today. I hear those are generally best for PC gaming. Any other suggestions?
Click to expand...
Start browsing for comfy headsets. As you live in close proximity with your folks, you're going to need the ability to play sound at a volume you like without disturbing them, and as you get more into multiplayer, the mic will become very important.


#81

Eriol

Eriol

GasBandit said:
Start browsing for comfy headsets. As you live in close proximity with your folks, you're going to need the ability to play sound at a volume you like without disturbing them, and as you get more into multiplayer, the mic will become very important.
Click to expand...
I use these: Amazon product

Good, cheap-ish, but not cheap-sounding. Not a lot of bells & whistles, but "just works" for me. There are caveats (the volume control could be better at "silencing" stuff) but they really feel good, and considering I'm a big guy with a big head (6'7" tall), these fit comfortably too. And very adjustable, so I'm sure they'd fit smaller too.

I didn't buy them on amazon, thus can't endorse there, but it was the easy link! Canadian Amazon too if you want them.

Edit: that embed does NOT play well with adblock or something. Had to go "private browsing" with all the stuff off to see it. :(


#82

GasBandit

GasBandit

I just toggle ABP off on halforums.com and it works fine for me.[DOUBLEPOST=1418750289,1418749927][/DOUBLEPOST]Anyway, as for me, I don't have a headset per se, I have a separate set of headphones and a clip-on mic. I use Audio Technica headphones - I recommend the ATH-m50, though they're pricey as all hell -

Amazon product

And for the mic I use the humble Zalman ZM-MIC1. It's the mic I use not only for gaming but also for all the voice work in the videos I produce.

Amazon product

Jesus Christ canadian prices are high. That's twice the american price (which is higher than the 5 bucks I spent on em 7 years ago).


#83

PatrThom

PatrThom

GasBandit said:
Jesus Christ canadian prices are high.
Click to expand...
Try browsing CD prices.

--Patrick


#84

GasBandit

GasBandit

PatrThom said:
Try browsing CD prices.

--Patrick
Click to expand...
People still buy CDs?!


#85

Ravenpoe

Ravenpoe

Amazon product

People say that wireless headsets are no good, and that surround sound headsets are a sham. I don't care, I love these things. I picked them up cheap(ish) during a sale a couple of years ago, and they're still going strong.


#86

PatrThom

PatrThom

GasBandit said:
People still buy CDs?!
Click to expand...
People still pay monthly for AOL. It's not much of a stretch from there.

--Patrick


#87

Frank

Frank

You don't buy stuff like that from Amazon. The prices are always insane.


#88

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

I actually have a decent headset already. Just an inexpensive Logitech. Nothing fancy. Maybe when my tax return comes in next year, I'll shell out more money for a good one.

Think I might break down and get an Xbox One controller soon. Apparently, there's a model specifically for Windows?


#89

Frank

Frank

ThatNickGuy said:
I actually have a decent headset already. Just an inexpensive Logitech. Nothing fancy. Maybe when my tax return comes in next year, I'll shell out more money for a good one.

Think I might break down and get an Xbox One controller soon. Apparently, there's a model specifically for Windows?
Click to expand...
It's just the regular model that comes with a USB cable to plug it in with Windows added to the box.


#90

figmentPez

figmentPez

Frank said:
It's just the regular model that comes with a USB cable to plug it in with Windows added to the box.
Click to expand...
I'm hoping they come out with a wireless adapter for Windows by the time I wear my current 360 controller out. I really like being cordless.


#91

CrimsonSoul

CrimsonSoul

You can use a ps4 controller on a pc right now


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