[Question] Gaming Rig

I'm thinking of asking for just one thing for Christmas this year: a really good gaming PC. I'll pay part of it and see if my folks will help pay for the rest. My brother-in-law can order the parts and likely for pretty good prices. He's a good tech guy and can put it together for me, too.

So with that in mind, what would you guys suggest? I'm probably looking to spend no more than around $1,000. I don't know if get a monitor, keyboard, speakers, etc, within that price range and still get a good rig. I doubt it. Is there something doable there?

I guess I'm just tired of using my notebook for gaming, since it can run older games or indie games at best (and even then, not always, since it doesn't run Rogue Legacy very smoothly).
 
Surfing, writing, downloading and watching shows and movies, maybe. Though I tend to copy those onto a USB stick and watch them on the PS3. This would unquestionably be primarily a gaming PC.

Most games I play have been indie games, but I'd like to be able to play some good, high-end games. Obviously, we don't know what the requirements are yet, but I want to be able to play Arkham Knight with this rig. It's the only next-gen console game I'm interested in so far and really, I don't know want to get a new console just for one game if I can get it on PC and then have access to a bunch of other games on Steam. Maybe finally play Skyrim and play around with all these mods people talk about. Or get into some more online game with a PC that can play the higher up games (I can't play, say, Payday or Killing Floor with my notebook). I imagine if I can get a good rig, I won't have to worry about getting another good a good long while.

I just googled Akrham Knight PC requirements and found this. It has a prediction for requirements. I'm almost afraid for what kind of rig I'd need for it:
http://www.game-debate.com/games/index.php?g_id=17044&game=Batman: Arkham Knight

I also probably wouldn't need a disc drive, since I haven't needed one in years.
 
Do you have anything you can reuse? Either things you were planning to reuse, or components that will just "fill in" until you can replace them with something better?
(this would be things like using a regular HDD for the extra 6 months it would take you to finally save up to get a SSD, for instance)

--Patrick
 

Dave

Staff member
I'm running without an SSD. I know it would be nice for system loads, but it's not a must have kind of thing and drives up the price. The big thing you'll miss out on would be a monitor. If you can score one of those (or use a TV for a short period of time) then it gets fairly easy to get a killer gaming rig for less than $1000.

Go look at completed builds on PC Part Picker. That place is the best!
 
Do you have anything you can reuse? Either things you were planning to reuse, or components that will just "fill in" until you can replace them with something better?
(this would be things like using a regular HDD for the extra 6 months it would take you to finally save up to get a SSD, for instance)

--Patrick
I have a notebook and an external HD.

That's it.
 

Necronic

Staff member
well...you could always turn the external hard drive into an internal one. Make sure it doesn't have some goofy proprietary formatting to it though. Made that mistake with my Black Armor NAS, was a pain to sort out, but I did eventually just get it in as a normal HDD.
 

GasBandit

Staff member
You can get a pretty damn good gaming rig for $900, though you'll have to scale back some if you also need things like a monitor and mouse/kb. I'd suggest taking a look at TechReport's latest system guide (I posted it in the sticky in this tech forum) and working from the "econobox" build, and maybe swap out pieces until you get where you want to be. I do recommend going nvidia over AMD, incidentally.
 

Necronic

Staff member
For an econo box AMD may be a lot cheaper though, especially for CPUs. You pay a premium for IntelInside (TM). You used to at least. I have an i5 4670k and its brilliant (overclocks like a champ!), but its still quite pricey.
 
All right, my last question for now is: Do you play to upgrade this more in the future (i.e., will you save up to swap out a couple key parts in the next year or two)? Or do you want something complete that you can seal up and forget about until it's time to replace it with your next system?

--Patrick
 
All right, my last question for now is: Do you play to upgrade this more in the future (i.e., will you save up to swap out a couple key parts in the next year or two)? Or do you want something complete that you can seal up and forget about until it's time to replace it with your next system?

--Patrick
Probably something upgradable.
 

Necronic

Staff member
If you want to be able to upgrade it then you wan to go heavy on the motherboard. Best out there right now are the ROG boards, but they aren't cheap, like 250ish.
 
Ok, here's what I got:
You can get a pretty damn good gaming rig for $900
Code:
 $90 - BOX Corsair Carbide 240
$140 - PSU Seasonic SS-750KM3
$120 - MLB MSI Z97M-G43
$240 - CPU Intel i5-4690K
 $90 - RAM G.Skill Ares 2x4GB DDR3-1600 CAS 8-8-8-24
 $80 - HDD Seagate ST1000DX001 1TB SSHD
$140 -  OS Win7/8 x64 OEM
====
$900 - Total
(all prices sourced from Newegg, you might do better if you shop around)
If you want to be able to upgrade it then you wan to go heavy on the motherboard.
Just couldn't fit the ROG board in there and still leave plenty of headroom (for things like a keyboard/mouse/cables/etc), although if you (i.e., @ThatNickGuy ) are comfortable slashing the surplus down to only $10, It would actually be the better choice. You can get one for about $210 over at Newegg, though that would add $90 bringing the total up to $990, drastically reducing what you would have available for "extras."

The Rationale:

-The Corsair case has plenty of room and plenty of cooling, and that cooling is provided by 120mm fans, which means it will be reasonably quiet.

-The power supply is 750W, which should be enough for any graphics card you ever cram into that box. It is also one of the higher-end Seasonics, which is a bit like saying "it's one of the premium Bentleys."

-The motherboard uses the Z97 chipset, which is the second-best one Intel has these days, and it is one of the ones which has an M.2 slot onboard, which you can fill with a scorching fast SSD later. The fact that the board has a Z97 chipset means you would then have the choice of using a big SSD as a blazing fast C: drive OR use Intel's RST to combine a smaller (i.e., cheaper) M.2 and a larger HDD into a single, much faster volume. The MSI looked like the cheapest "quality" board that had the M.2 slot, but the ROG board has a much better network/LAN controller, which I would recommend over the MSI except for the +$90 in cost.

-The CPU is one of Intel's newest "Devil's Canyon" more overclocker-friendly models, which means it should be relatively easy to push the clock speed up an additional 10% without any sort of exotic equipment. Reviewers have found that they're ultimately not as overclockable as Intel originally claimed they would be, but the newer "features" mean yours should at least be more stable/less crashy than the model it replaced.

-The RAM is just quality RAM. Testing has shown that, for gaming, running your ram at blistering 2000+ speeds doesn't net you as much performance as the extra money would imply. Better to get something that runs at a lower frequency BUT has a lower timing (the CAS 8 stuff).

-The HDD is "only" a 1TB, but it has an extra 8GB of flash memory on-board, meaning that the most commonly accessed files (such as boot/system files) will be held in much faster memory, and therefore boost speed.

-The OS. Get Win7 pro or Win8.1 pro according to your preference. Get the Win7 if you have leftover XP applications (NOT games, I mean things like Word and such) that you want to keep running in Win7Pro's included XP virtual machine, otherwise get 8.1 because Microsoft has made it clear that they're going to start ignoring anyone who doesn't have at least 8.x pretty soon.

"But what about the graphics card?" I hear you ask. Ah. Well, due to the budget constraints, you'll either have to repurpose an old one, borrow one from your friend, or just get by on the built-in Intel graphics (which are about equivalent to midrange Radeon 4xxx/Geforce 5xx series). I know it will mean playing games at lower settings, but the 2 months you spend playing on low settings while you save up for something newer are going to be 100% completely worth being able to afford getting the rest of the top-shelf hardware under you for the time being. Barring equipment failure or some wild shift in technology, that core system should be able to easily last you 3-5 years, and the only future upgrades you'd have to do to stay current would be to add the M.2 card, increase the RAM to at least 16GB, and get whatever the newer video card du jour is 3 years from now. Future you will appreciate your thrift.

--Patrick
 
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I know I'm one of the go-to hardware resources around here, but I didn't mean to kill this thread I swear.

--Patrick
 

GasBandit

Staff member
I don't have much to add. As usual, I forgot to figure the cost of the OS into the build (After so many years of doing so, it became ingrained in me to assume I'd be either pirating or reinstalling the OS I already have), which really chokes money out that could have been used on a dedicated GPU. As such though, it's still going to be a step up from an old gaming laptop... and once you save up $150 bucks, you can slap a decent budget GPU in it sometime next year and have an excellent box that will run just about anything at 60fps/1080p.
 

Dave

Staff member
See, now I'd do everything in my power to get a video card in there. Using on-board chipsets just won't do it and can't play shit.

Using PCPart Picker, I get this:

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/sDsQhM

PC Parts.png

Note this has the same CPU/RAM as above and has an Intel Z97 motherboard, but it also adds the video card. Overall price? $963.89. Yes, a GTX 760 is fairly old tech, but it will play almost everything you have on medium/high levels and still benchmarks #24 on the charts. Using on-board graphics means you won't be able to play most new games on anything but the lowest settings if you can play them at all.
 
If anybody is actually wanting to help him, remember: CANADA.
I thought about that after I put the list together, but hadn't checked. I assumed he'd speak up if it was a problem ("Hey this is a no-go because Canada, any idea?"). Most retailers have a Canadian presence.
See, now I'd do everything in my power to get a video card in there. Using on-board chipsets just won't do it and can't play shit.
As usual, I forgot to figure the cost of the OS into the build
I agree, and I really tried to cut some other corner that would get a better (i.e., independent) graphics card in there, and had a really nice build put together that had one, but then I realized I hadn't included the OS in my price list either and I was all GRAAAAHSTARTOVER. My choices then either boiled down to substituting a different CPU/MLB (Pentium G3258 and/or cheaper Z97 MLB if you're curious) to keep the budget low enough to include a discrete GPU, but that would mean having to break the system down to upgrade the CPU later (G3258 only has 2 cores, i5 has 4), which sounded annoying. I know that *I* would have no problem suffering with integrated video for a month or two until I could upgrade, but I know Nick's level of patience tends to vary from time to time.

I didn't include a heatsink/fan because the build included the retail version of the CPU, which comes with the stock HSF.
Right now, the recommendations for ~$150 GPUs are split between the GTX 750Ti/R9 270x depending on if you want to go NVIDIA/AMD. You don't really hit the next level of performance until the price tag rises above the $225 line.

--Patrick
 
In my experience, as long as you have a half decent case with good airflow, the stock cpu cooler is fine unless you're overclocking.
 
So-called "OEM" processors usually are just a chip and maybe a chunk of foam to keep the pins/pads from getting ruined. The ones labeled "Retail Box" usually come with a HSF.

--Patrick
 
So I talked with my brother in law about it tonight. Showed him the specs for Arkham Knight and he thinks the system he can get me (for $800-$900) should not only hit the mark, but far surpass it. I didn't even know core processors were as high as i7, now. I told him the game is built essentially for the current generation systems, which he said is a joke compared to what PC systems are capable of. From what I've seen, I believe him.

He also suggested getting an SSD and installing Windows and games on that so that they run almost instantly. I can't recall what case he suggested, but he preferred something else over the Cosair. Something about its door breaking off often.

Anyway, looks like it's become a strong possibility I'm getting a new gaming rig for Christmas. I've already said to my folks that:
1) This would be all I'm getting for Christmas.
2) I'll pay for part of it.
3) It will also count for my birthday present for next May.
4) The past few years, my sister has just been giving me $100 cash. So instead, it can just go towards this.

So I'm probably looking to pay about $400 of this, myself.

In the meantime, I'll probably keep an eye on Humble Bundles for games to really test out this new system. I'm eyeing the current Bundle that has Saints Row IV, for example. I have Metro 2033 already in my library that's never been installed. Same for Payday. Looking forward to playing Civilization V, since this notebook can't run it. Ditto Rogue Legacy, which sadly runs very choppy on this. If I can get it super cheap, I might finally give Skyrim a run and try out some mods. Weird as it sounds, I want to replay through the Half-Life games and see what they look like on the highest settings. Same for TF2.

Any other suggestions?
 
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GasBandit

Staff member
So I talked with my brother in law about it tonight. Showed him the specs for Arkham Knight and he thinks the system he can get me (for $800-$900) should not only hit the mark, but far surpass it. I didn't even know core processors were as high as i7, now. I told him the game is built essentially for the current generation systems, which he said is a joke compared to what PC systems are capable of. From what I've seen, I believe him.

He also suggested getting an SSD and installing Windows and games on that so that they run almost instantly. I can't recall what case he suggested, but he preferred something else over the Cosair. Something about its door breaking off often.

Anyway, looks like it's become a strong possibility I'm getting a new gaming rig for Christmas. I've already said to my folks that:
1) This would be all I'm getting for Christmas.
2) I'll pay for part of it.
3) It will also count for my birthday present for next May.
4) The past few years, my sister has just been giving me $100 cash. So instead, it can just go towards this.

So I'm probably looking to pay about $400 of this, myself.

In the meantime, I'll probably keep an eye on Humble Bundles for games to really test out this new system. I'm eyeing the current Bundle that has Saints Row IV, for example. I have Metro 2033 already in my library that's never been installed. Same for Payday. Looking forward to playing Civilization V, since this notebook can't run it. Ditto Rogue Legacy, which sadly runs very choppy on this. If I can get it super cheap, I might finally give Skyrim a run and try out some mods. Weird as it sounds, I want to replay through the Half-Life games and see what they look like on the highest settings. Same for TF2.

Any other suggestions?
Only install games on the SSD you know you'll never uninstall, and will pay constantly. TF2 is a good one to do so with, though, it really helps the load times. Wait for a steam sale for Skyrim and you'll be able to pick it up really cheap.

Meanwhile, I've got an extra copy of Torchlight 2 sitting in my gift inventory if you want it.

Also, there's lots of good free games you can try. War Thunder, for one. DC Universe Online isn't all that bad. You can also try DOTA 2 (or League of Legends, if you prefer that flavor, or even Smite) if you wanna see what all this MOBA nonsense is about, Path of Exile will definitely scratch any Diablo-RPG itch you've got. Planetside 2 is a pretty good free MMOFPS. Might also give Loadout a try (kinda similar to TF2 but with customized weaponry). If you like big stompy shooty robots, give Hawken or (wincing as I say this) Mechwarrior Online a try. All of those are free to play.
 
-If you're going to get a "pure" SSD as your main drive (rather than the SSHD or "fusion" setup), get at least a 240. You pay a heavy performance penalty for drives smaller than that. It has to do with how SSDs distribute the load across their flash chips, and < 240 drives don't use enough chips to fill all the channels.
-That Carbide 240 case only came out in August of 2014, so I wonder exactly how many reports of breaking doors there are out there. I could only find reports of the thumbscrews breaking. I wonder if he's confusing it with the Carbide 540, which looks almost the same in pictures but is a much larger case (and has been out since mid-2013).
-You didn't mention what power supply you were getting, but make sure it will be enough to comfortably power not only everything you are installing now, but also everything you are GOING to install, and make sure it has enough reserve capacity. For instance, if you need 550W total, make sure you get at least a 650W PSU, because PSUs lose power and efficiency as they age. A good rule of thumb is to total up everything you're ever going to need and then add 20-25% to account for this future sagging.
-i7's are nice, but you don't usually get enough extra fps out of them to really be worth the price premium over the i5's. I'm not saying to skip an i7, they do have hyperthreading and larger caches (which is basically what makes them an i7 instead of an i5), but the price difference can be drastic compared to the equivalent i5. Incidentally, Intel is not "up to" i7's right now, that's just their name for their top tier processors. It's the 4-digit number and single letter you want to pay attention to (3770k, 4650S or whatever) rather than the i-whatever.

Can't really make any other recommendations since you didn't say which CPU and MLB you'd be going with.

Regardless of how things go, please let us know your final system makeup, so we can all learn from your experiences.

--Patrick
 
Only install games on the SSD you know you'll never uninstall, and will pay constantly. TF2 is a good one to do so with, though, it really helps the load times. Wait for a steam sale for Skyrim and you'll be able to pick it up really cheap.

Meanwhile, I've got an extra copy of Torchlight 2 sitting in my gift inventory if you want it.

Also, there's lots of good free games you can try. War Thunder, for one. DC Universe Online isn't all that bad. You can also try DOTA 2 (or League of Legends, if you prefer that flavor, or even Smite) if you wanna see what all this MOBA nonsense is about, Path of Exile will definitely scratch any Diablo-RPG itch you've got. Planetside 2 is a pretty good free MMOFPS. Might also give Loadout a try (kinda similar to TF2 but with customized weaponry). If you like big stompy shooty robots, give Hawken or (wincing as I say this) Mechwarrior Online a try. All of those are free to play.
Thanks, that's some good advice. I'm not one for big stompy robots, to be honest. And I've yet to try any MOBAs (don't even know what that stands for, honestly). Been thinking of getting back into some kind of an MMO, but none have really caught my interest. Though I've had a City of Heroes itch lately and DCUO might scratch it. Might give Champions a second try because I didn't mind the brief time I played that.

Good advice on the SSD, though. TF2 would definitely be a permanent stay. Awesomenauts would be another for me.[DOUBLEPOST=1416284229,1416284114][/DOUBLEPOST]
-If you're going to get a "pure" SSD as your main drive (rather than the SSHD or "fusion" setup), get at least a 240. You pay a heavy performance penalty for drives smaller than that. It has to do with how SSDs distribute the load across their flash chips, and < 240 drives don't use enough chips to fill all the channels.
-That Carbide 240 case only came out in August of 2014, so I wonder exactly how many reports of breaking doors there are out there. I could only find reports of the thumbscrews breaking. I wonder if he's confusing it with the Carbide 540, which looks almost the same in pictures but is a much larger case (and has been out since mid-2013).
-You didn't mention what power supply you were getting, but make sure it will be enough to comfortably power not only everything you are installing now, but also everything you are GOING to install, and make sure it has enough reserve capacity. For instance, if you need 550W total, make sure you get at least a 650W PSU, because PSUs lose power and efficiency as they age. A good rule of thumb is to total up everything you're ever going to need and then add 20-25% to account for this future sagging.
-i7's are nice, but you don't usually get enough extra fps out of them to really be worth the price premium over the i5's. I'm not saying to skip an i7, they do have hyperthreading and larger caches (which is basically what makes them an i7 instead of an i5), but the price difference can be drastic compared to the equivalent i5. Incidentally, Intel is not "up to" i7's right now, that's just their name for their top tier processors. It's the 4-digit number and single letter you want to pay attention to (3770k, 4650S or whatever) rather than the i-whatever.

Can't really make any other recommendations since you didn't say which CPU and MLB you'd be going with.

Regardless of how things go, please let us know your final system makeup, so we can all learn from your experiences.

--Patrick
Thing is, I get really lost in all these technical details. Which is why I've been kind of silent with this thread. I honestly don't understand half the things you're talking about. But I know my brother in laws knows his stuff. He's a big tech guy, worked with computers most of his life, including building some of mine, and has a really great system himself right now.
 
I honestly don't understand half the things you're talking about. But I know my brother in laws knows his stuff. He's a big tech guy, worked with computers most of his life, including building some of mine, and has a really great system himself right now.
I didn't know you weren't tech-savvy, sorry. I figured you would let me know when it started getting too technobabble-y for you.
If he's willing, though, I wouldn't mind if you PM'd me his critique of my suggestion. I don't run into too many people who can be bothered to get as "into" hardware as I do, and would like to hear the counterpoint. And no, I'm not asking because I want to pooh-pooh torpedo his ideas. I assume because he's family that he is trying to do his best for you, and so I am interested in what he knows (through experience OR research) that I don't.

I will also understand if he can't be bothered. People got lives. :)

--Patrick
 

GasBandit

Staff member
As a DC comic fan, you owe it to yourself to play to level 20 in DCUO, if for no other reason than to hear Arleen Sorkin's voice acting swan song. This was the last time she played Harley Quinn. Also they got Kevin Conroy to voice Batman and Mark Hamill to voice Joker. Adam Baldwin and Gina Torres are a little miscast as Supes and Wonder Woman, if you ask me, but I'm willing to let it slide on Firefly cred.
 
So here's what he just sent me @PatrThom. What do you think? Again, I'm kind of a luddite when it comes to most of this.

This doesn't include Windows 8, but he thinks he has a copy of 7 around somewhere. So feel free to talk stupid to me about it. Think "speedy thing goes in, speedy thing goes out." :p

http://pc.ncix.com/ncixpc/ncixpc.cfm?uuid=0F280B6E-EBAC-486D-A8CAE67706A843EE-6132039
Seems OK. I "feel" like it's possible to get a better deal, but I don't have specific knowledge.
 
So feel free to talk stupid to me about it.
That's one of the MLBs I was considering. I would take the step up to the 240GB SSD (for reasons I go into above) and the 500W power supply means you will only ever be able to use ONE graphics card, though if you are never going to add a second one then this should not be a problem.

Just make sure that the Win7 he is offering you is the 64-bit version. :)

--Patrick
 
So Mike (brother in law) e-mailed me this morning. The one he sent was just a quick, 30-minute check to see what he could find within around my price range. One thing he mentioned is that he likely has spare parts around that he's not using that he could add to the system. For example, "I already have a 750w Gold series power supply and maybe even a 2Tb drive outta my NAS, that I can add to the cause if we build one. I think by picking and choosing some separate components as they come up on sale over Black Friday and cyber Monday we might be able to whittle this down enough to get a decent monitor included in the $1000+tx price point."

He later said in the e-mail that he thinks he might have a spare 24" LED since he himself switched to a dual screen.

He also stated: "I read Patrick’s system recommends and they are right on and he’s right the case I was thinking of was an older one. The Carbide 240 is nice box. I am running a Coolermaster HAF932, I think and it’s a SWEET box so I am partial."

One thing he did add is with Black Friday coming up, we can probably find all kinds of crazy good deals on parts.

Here's a refurbished one he found, too. Says the video card is pretty weak, but that could be upgraded (or have a second one added) later. At this point, I'm leaning more towards the first one he suggested or something similar.
http://www.nmicrovip.ca/asus-core-i...-2g-dvdrw-windows-8-m11ad-ca003s-refurbished/

If I CAN get one cheaper, all the better, but I'd like to get a good rig that will last me awhile before I need to upgrade again any time soon. That's the ideal, anyway. I don't know how realistic it is.
 

GasBandit

Staff member
If I CAN get one cheaper, all the better, but I'd like to get a good rig that will last me awhile before I need to upgrade again any time soon. That's the ideal, anyway. I don't know how realistic it is.
Depends on how important playing the "newest" games are to you. If so, you're looking at ~$200 every 2 or 3 years on a video card upgrade. If not, any of the builds discussed here will last you until it breaks. My last machine lasted me 7 years with no upgrades - only stopped using it when the video card finally gave up the ghost because there'd been a major architecture revision since I built 'er up so I needed a new motherboard, which meant I basically needed a new PC. Of course, the video card I had bought that lasted 7 years was $500 in 2007.... and now the card I'm using cost less than $200 and already outperforms it. C'est la PC gaming.
 
Depends on how important playing the "newest" games are to you. If so, you're looking at ~$200 every 2 or 3 years on a video card upgrade. If not, any of the builds discussed here will last you until it breaks. My last machine lasted me 7 years with no upgrades - only stopped using it when the video card finally gave up the ghost because there'd been a major architecture revision since I built 'er up so I needed a new motherboard, which meant I basically needed a new PC. Of course, the video card I had bought that lasted 7 years was $500 in 2007.... and now the card I'm using cost less than $200 and already outperforms it. C'est la PC gaming.
Well, my keystone game right now is Arkham Knight. But I WOULD like to be able to play some of the newest games in the future. $200 every 2-3 years sounds reasonable to me, honestly. Would it be just the video card I'd need to upgrade, for the most part?
 

GasBandit

Staff member
Well, my keystone game right now is Arkham Knight. But I WOULD like to be able to play some of the newest games in the future. $200 every 2-3 years sounds reasonable to me, honestly. Would it be just the video card I'd need to upgrade, for the most part?
Usually. Maybe RAM down the road too, but probably only once, and that's really inexpensive. Oh, and if you suddenly turn into a torrent addict, you might end up buying external hard drives every 6 months ;)

And since Arkham Knight is developed for console, I doubt it'd be an issue. It's the PC exclusives that'll generally tax your rig. Aside from MMOs. Those also usually try to keep their requirements low so as to be accessible to as many people as possible. Heck, WoW 's still king of the MMO pile and you can play it with onboard video, on most laptops these days.
 
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