Halforums Rampant Negativity

[BoringMetaphor]

I just want to point out that in this thread, out of the posters here, all the 'lurkers'; myself, Mutiny, Wana10 (to some degree) and ncts_dodge_man, all essentially say its negativity. Others do as well, but if you want to know why the forum is failing, its because lurkers dont post, and everyone lurks in the beginning to get the feel for a place. (except for directly referred people, such as roomates, etc.) So new people are probably much less likely to join the community. Asking the people who post why stuff is going wrong is only answering why the forum might die - if you want to know why it wont grow, ask the people who can post but dont.

Its not that the place needs more moderation, its that any number of yahoos on this forum will not accept the idea that you can make a post which says "Well, you have your points and I have mine, lets end this."

This applies to politics, to personal discussions, to just about everything sometimes. I will say right now I look at some people's posts on this forum and can think of all sorts of snappy/snarky/HUMOUROUS responses which makes me feel better about myself for being clever, but does nothing for the discussion/whatever issue they are going through. I dont post them cause its just impolite and mean. And it makes people feel bad. Time and time again I find myself asking here, why on earth would you post something which purposefully makes someone feel bad and has no other value?

People here dont need moderation, they need filters. Which is why its so problematic. You cant force people to filter themselves, so its not something which can magically appear with the "right mod" or some new rule. Following this community for years now has let me to believe there is essentially a cadre of posters here who are so obsessed with proving their own wit, or importance, or superiority over others, that they post not for value but for instant gratification and the knowledge that they have proven themselves better than someone - or anyone it seems - once again.

Ultimately, this does not build a community. This create the illusion of community, the illusion that there is camaredie here because people post a lot, and interact. Posts do not mean you are a valued member of the community. If you want to see what to build off of in HF, look to the real community, the real friendships, the people who look at other forumers and say this is someone who I will talk to for the rest of my life, because they are my friend. People who say, I will listen to you because you are posting, not because I agree with you.

I guess what I am trying to say is, if more people here were more interested in hearing what others had to say than what they themselves are saying, we could make some steps towards a sustainable community rather than a degrading one.

 

[ThatNickGuy]

No names in this thread, Dave said. Take it up in PMs, please.

 

[Chippy]

PMs.

---------- Post added at 05:02 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:01 AM ----------

Dave said no names.

I called myself out. Is that so bad?

 

[Gusto]

 

[Cajungal]

Maybe, maybe not. Regardless, please respect his request. That's not what he made this thread for.

 

[Chippy]

But the irony was so delicious!

 

[makare]

damn it, don't mess with the irony. This entire forum is an irony explosion waiting to happen.. Imagine a giant twinkie....made of irony.

 

[Gusto]

Th irony is so thick I can barely move.

 

[Krisken]

damn it, don't mess with the irony. This entire forum is an irony explosion waiting to happen.. Imagine a giant twinkie....made of irony.

If it was compared to the normal level of irony in a forum, it would be a twinkie weighing 600 tons?

 

[Sparhawk]

Yes, there is more of an atmosphere of negativity, yes, it's been building, yes, it's keeping me from posting (or even checking) in the forum as much. There is a distinct group of people, who mostly haven't posted in this thread, that seem to be "attacking" people more often than is really warranted.

Example of this, Chaz and his I'm leaving thread, and then coming back. There was a DEDICATED group of people that attacked and then didn't even back off when it was announced that he was in the middle of a REAL personal crisis. THAT is what people remember about a forum visit, Not the friendly jokes and pokes that consist of most of the posts around here.

The New Posts button has blurred the line too much between the sub-forums, and in some ways the sub-forums have splintered the posters in the boards too much. Used to be that you would never know what you would find, and become interested in, in General (comics, web-comics, interesting news of the day, funny pictures, goofy threads that were just for fun) and now General has lost it's fun factor. Flame wars as a sub-forum should probably go, since I personally have seen too many threads take off in a flame direction because somebody "oops, thought this was Flame Wars" posted.

Yeah, a long post for me, but this has been bothering me somewhat. I really enjoy this forum, love what Dave has done for us, but it's almost too much of a division between the posting areas, consolidate, less would be more in this case. We currently have 11 different sub-forums, maybe trim that by 5 (General and Politics under "Topic Disc" and that's all) or 6 (Flame goodbye?) and let it ride.

Okay, gonna go sit back in my corner,
sparhawk (jeff)

 

[wana10]

damn it, don't mess with the irony. This entire forum is an irony explosion waiting to happen.. Imagine a giant twinkie....made of irony.

 

[ElJuski]

It kind of sounds like that if this place isn't fucking smiles and rainbows then the whole thing is a tattered mess. It's the internet, people, it's a forum. Let's take a deep breath, sigh a collective "who gives a shit" sigh, and get on to discussing inane points of pop culture interest. Why people get so butthurt over crap some random assmunch on the other end of hte internet is saying, I don't know.

What I do know is all this lovey-dovey compensation stuff is WAY unnecessary. This place should be a time sink and a pastime. SRS BUSINESS, indeed.

 

[Chippy]

It kind of sounds like that if this place isn't fucking smiles and rainbows then the whole thing is a tattered mess. It's the internet, people, it's a forum. Let's take a deep breath, sigh a collective "who gives a shit" sigh, and get on to discussing inane points of pop culture interest. Why people get so butthurt over crap some random assmunch on the other end of hte internet is saying, I don't know.

What I do know is all this lovey-dovey compensation stuff is WAY unnecessary. This place should be a time sink and a pastime. SRS BUSINESS, indeed.

Juski, I know I don't say this nearly enough...

But I love you.

 

[Krisken]

It kind of sounds like that if this place isn't fucking smiles and rainbows then the whole thing is a tattered mess. It's the internet, people, it's a forum. Let's take a deep breath, sigh a collective "who gives a shit" sigh, and get on to discussing inane points of pop culture interest. Why people get so butthurt over crap some random assmunch on the other end of hte internet is saying, I don't know.

What I do know is all this lovey-dovey compensation stuff is WAY unnecessary. This place should be a time sink and a pastime. SRS BUSINESS, indeed.

Yeah, except that doesn't bring in new people, right? I mean, isn't that pretty much what we want here? Maybe I'm not understanding what the purpose of the forums are.

 

[Bowielee]

Quite frankly, I've deleted my bookmark for this site 4 times in the last 2 weeks.

FYI if we drive away all the posters, there won't be a board anymore. If you're cool with that, by all means, continue to ignore the problem.

 

[Cajungal]

I think it's worth talking about if we wanna keep this place running. There's a happy medium somewhere between singing koombayah and telling people to stop having feelings.

 

[Soliloquy]

It kind of sounds like that if this place isn't fucking smiles and rainbows then the whole thing is a tattered mess. It's the internet, people, it's a forum. Let's take a deep breath, sigh a collective "who gives a shit" sigh, and get on to discussing inane points of pop culture interest. Why people get so butthurt over crap some random assmunch on the other end of hte internet is saying, I don't know.

What I do know is all this lovey-dovey compensation stuff is WAY unnecessary. This place should be a time sink and a pastime. SRS BUSINESS, indeed.

Yeah, except that doesn't bring in new people, right? I mean, isn't that pretty much what we want here? Maybe I'm not understanding what the purpose of the forums are.[/QUOTE]

I though the purpose was to drain Dave's bank account as he makes a futile attempt to turn Halforums into a viable and popular website.

 

[Troll]

It kind of sounds like that if this place isn't fucking smiles and rainbows then the whole thing is a tattered mess. It's the internet, people, it's a forum. Let's take a deep breath, sigh a collective "who gives a shit" sigh, and get on to discussing inane points of pop culture interest. Why people get so butthurt over crap some random assmunch on the other end of hte internet is saying, I don't know.

What I do know is all this lovey-dovey compensation stuff is WAY unnecessary. This place should be a time sink and a pastime. SRS BUSINESS, indeed.

You're completely missing the point. This isn't about people always smiling and being oh-so-sweet to each other. It's about some people not being huge assholes to everyone else because they think its funny. It's possible to disagree, goof around, be sarcastic, and show emotion all without being an giant douche. Too many people skip right to the douche phase, and it's driving people away.

 

[KCWM]

I'd like to think that, at one point in time, I was a semi regular. Maybe I'm giving myself too much credit. I used to check and read quite a bit...looked forward to what people had to say about games, movies, TV shows, and then read the wacky "Only on HF" stuff.

Now...it's hardly worth it because the overall impression that I get is that everything just devolves into a big heap of bullshit, as the "lurkers" have also pointed out. It makes it feel more like a time waste rather than a time sink. And, it seems like just about every thread I DO click on, I can't read from work because of language, pictures, or a combination of the two.

If I had to describe the general population, the first word that comes to mind is inconsiderate. Does everyone fit that? No. But, if that's my general description having been on this forum in one form or fashion through however many incarnations, then I can see why people that are new either don't post or aren't staying. As others have said, people sure don't seem to care when they lay into someone "for the lulz".

I couldn't care less whether or I visit this place anymore...I checked here out of boredom while my computer formatted a CD. That makes me sad because this used to be the first bookmark I clicked on. Now, it's the last one I want to click on.

Older members can say that there's no problem or that the problem is overexaggerated and that we just need to learn to deal, but that's utter bullshit. Denying there's a problem is simply letting it get worse. This place needs more moderation...it needs real consequences for actions rather than what comes across as a minor slap on the wrist. The primary rule needs to be "Dont be a dick". If people can't figure that out how that works, then they are adding to the problem...and it should then become an issue of addition by subtraction. It might suck to lose to a long term member, but if we can get 10 new members because one asshole is gone, then it's a win.

 

[Cajungal]

Maybe this is a good idea... maybe not... but all the complaints about the flame war section got me thinking.

What if a thread couldn't be started as a flame war thread, but if it got heated enough, it could be placed there with a page limit of __X__ set... enough to let people bellow and stomp a while until it's time to close up shop and make room for newer, hotter, angrier topics.

It might encourage people to stay civil if people want to talk about something without having a limit. It's an incomplete idea, just brainstorming here...

I don't think anything we did would turn things around completely, and that doesn't even need to happen. A good fight clears the air, and people usually fling around some interesting ideas... along with very colorful, creative jabs... but after a while it's just pages and pages of more of the same and people commenting on stuff that was said on one of the previous 30 pages they did not read.

 

[ElJuski]

Let's be honest. What's bringing new posters here anyway? If the goal is to have MORE people, then there should be more reasons for MORE people.

And if those MORE people are able to change the dynamic of what's going on, than that's fantastic. I think what we're describing here is an isolation and lock down of nega-feelings. People on this forum all too readily take shit WAY too seriously.

However, locking down the Flame Wars section would quite possibly be a beneficial idea. It's not really necessary, as fun as certain places may be. And yes, it's just a shitty excuse for people to keep on posting inane bullshit.

Other than that though? It kind of sounds like people are getting a little too hurt and personal over the internet.

 

[Cajungal]

^I have to say that, for all my talk about people being more considerate, it is important for the other side to give a little as well. Often a harmless little comment is taken as something much worse or much more offensive. It's a shame they took it that way, but things like that are going to happen when all we have here is text.

 

[doomdragon6]

Hm, I'd say removing the subforums, if nothing else for like a week-long test run, might be worthwhile. It'll get everyone into one forum talking again, like it used to be.

It used to be that threads moved off the main page within a day. Now, they linger for a week or longer. I firmly believe that getting more people in one place talking about a multitude of different things will improve the mood around here.

As it is, everyone's stuck with the same people and ideas they've been around.

 

[Krisken]

Boy, I hope you guys are right. There's a lot I like about this place.out:

 

[Soliloquy]

Let's be honest. What's bringing new posters here anyway? If the goal is to have MORE people, then there should be more reasons for MORE people.

And if those MORE people are able to change the dynamic of what's going on, than that's fantastic. I think what we're describing here is an isolation and lock down of nega-feelings. People on this forum all too readily take shit WAY too seriously.

However, locking down the Flame Wars section would quite possibly be a beneficial idea. It's not really necessary, as fun as certain places may be. And yes, it's just a shitty excuse for people to keep on posting inane bullshit.

Other than that though? It kind of sounds like people are getting a little too hurt and personal over the internet.

That's all well and good, but think of the way Dave's trying to get traffic: enticing webcomics to host their forums here. A pretty freakin' great idea, I'd say. But let's say that the people Dave's marketing to decide to check out this site that they'll be sending all their fans to, and what they see is ever other conversation turning into a pissing contest. How exactly will that make Dave's product look?

So yes, we're taking this seriously. Dave's made a sacrificial business venture, putting himself into financial difficulty to give us this place to hang out on the web. How dare we not take this seriously?

Edit: I know that you're talking about too many people taking insults and jabs online seriously, but that audience is going to be everywhere, coming in from every webcomic Dave tries to get in here. If we want Dave to be succesful, instead of just wasting his money for the 30-odd people who hang out here, we have to do something other than just hand-wave the issue.

 

[drawn_inward]

said a bunch of stuff

A ton of good points here. I think the negativity is a symptom of a greater problem. Good post. You should post more often.

I am guilty of the snarky/doesn't add anything to the thread posts. In fact, I think the majority of my posts are just to get a laugh.

 

[GeneralOrder24]

I don't see the negativity as much, but I view every post as I make them: mostly lighthearted internet nonsense.

Of course, you can't just tell people that it's just the internet and mostly everybody here means well. It's kind of a catch 22, I guess.

I'm in favor of moderation, though I can totally see myself putting my foot in my mouth and winding up on the wrong end of it. The other issue I see is that people who don't feel that their being of an ass is as bad as others will need to chill out and accept it, which is a bitter pill to swallow.

 

[Math242]

not everything is rose in halforumland right now. it looks like some people hate each other and get a hard on just pissing the others off.

Then there's the bandwagon and the clique effects which are very real around here. I don't like that.

To be honest tho, i've read this forum (or previous incarnations) for a long time and it's been way worse before.

My POV is very similar to Juski though. People are way too serious around here and If they want to be that serious about things, then they need a thicker skin.

 

[SeraRelm]

I vote they get half a warning, broken off in the middle of typing as we send 'Juski to their house (via the 'Juski travel fund we could start up) to bash tme in the grill.

Problem solved right?

Or we could hope people could show some decency to each other as, even though it's the "faceless internet" it's a perosn on the other end.

(I think the first idea is more realistic)

 

[Chazwozel]

Guys the solution is simple. I will wear the burden of forum asshole. I will go to Mount Doom and destroy the negativity. Although I do not know the way.

---------- Post added at 06:09 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:07 AM ----------

Example of this, Chaz and his I'm leaving thread, and then coming back. There was a DEDICATED group of people that attacked and then didn't even back off when it was announced that he was in the middle of a REAL personal crisis. THAT is what people remember about a forum visit, Not the friendly jokes and pokes that consist of most of the posts around here.

That was the IRC crew. They're douchebags anyway.

 

[Silver Jelly]

Guys the solution is simple. I will wear the burden of forum asshole. I will go to Mount Doom and destroy the negativity. Although I do not know the way.

Whenever I see such a picture of Frodo, I can't avoid imagining him putting the ring inside his mouth with a fast movement and then gulping it down with a glass of water.

 

[Bubble181]

I have to say - while there *is* a lot of sniping and stuff going on, I think some people take it waaayyy more serious than it is intended. I mean, honestly, I don't think I've read more than two or three posts here that were made in the idea of seriously hurting someone. Some peopel do enjoy poking a bit too hard, sure - heck, I guess I can be one of them at times. Mostly, though, I see everything here as friendly sniping and trolling for the sake of trolling. That can get quite annoying - and I can easily see it drive people away, especially if other people don't see it that way - but I don't think there are a lot of people who really hate each other on here. I know that I can't manage more than a mild dislike for the schticks of some people on here, and if/when I ever insult anyone or make fun of them, it's 100% guaranteed just for fun. Just like all my sexual advances (except for when they're directed at you, of course, honey).

Anyway, I can see what could drive people away; we're getting too insular and too cliquey... And it seems that, on a lot of topics, we have a bit of an "everything's been said" feeling. Because there're no new people, we get the same 5 opinions every time. What's the point in starting a new politics thread, if you just know which two or three people are going to come in and state exactly the same opinion you already know?
Moving more to one general forum again might help; as some have said, topics will disappear faster.

And like I said, get rid of the New Posts button. It really blurs the line between different topics, meaning people carry things over from thread to thread far more readily.

Also: I'm into hugs too

 

[Shannow]

Being banned is fun! Trust me! I got a lot of work done here at the office, and I came back a kinder, gentler person who understands the thoughts and feelings of all you fucking assholes. I now shit rainbows and puke unicorns.

 

[Shannow]

Hm, I read through this thread twice, just to make sure I wasn't missing something.

I don't see this "negative vibe" flowing through the forums. That's because I am probably on here more than almost anyone.

Perhaps it's because I don't take 98% of what comes out of another poster seriously (when it comes to negative situations/arguments) as alot of people can get heated and say things they don't exactly mean from time to time.

Now, if something persists for over a few days, then yeah, I can see the problem. That's a rare ass thing around here these days if you ask me though. :noidea:

Sonofabitch, I agree with sheg completely.

I'm honestly pretty entertained by a lot of the flame wars that go on here. I'm also a /b/tard, so take my opinion for what it's worth. I honestly think more moderation would be a bad thing, though. Part of the reason I love this forum is because I can let my hair down (even with the risk of Shego grabbing it and forcing me to do unspeakable things), cuss like a fucking sailor and occasionally give people a hard time, joking or not. Even though more moderation would definitely change the forum's vibe, I'm not sure it would really be for the better.

Also, I agree with this as well, though I am not a /b/tard.

 

[bhamv3]

A few weeks ago someone mentioned that I wasn't posting as much. I explained that I thought this forum was going downhill because of a vocal minority of assholes. Anyone remember what happened? I was immediately accused of actually trolling, and basically some people showed up to prove me right.

I bring this up not only to say "nyah nyah I told you so!", but also to illustrate the problem this forum has. There is a distinct vocal minority of assholes. They like to pick on people, carry flamewars from thread to thread, and they attack anyone who asks them to tone down the vitriol. They jump all over people who disagree with them, and it drives new posters and lurkers away. It borders on bullying behavior, especially the call out threads. There is a way to be civil and disagree at the same time, but some people around here don't even try.

I don't know what will fix the problem. My only suggestion is a stronger presence of moderation. There is a lax culture on this board that allows people, especially people who have been around longer, to be assholes. Somehow that has to be discouraged, or the situation is never going to change. Maybe there are better ideas than moderation. I don't know. All I know is that the increased negativity is noticable, and is an actual problem. It's not the forum just being colorful.

I agree with Troll-dude here.

A while ago, I also posted something along the lines of "a minority of people being asses makes the forum as a whole less attractive for me" and that line got jumped on and derided. I suppose it's a bit ironic I had no idea it'd get such a response, I just made that comment out of passing.

The sentiment remains, however. Just as watching people bicker in real life gets tiresome after a while, reading negative posts by people who posted simply to be negative also gets pretty tiresome.

For a while, we were very lightly moderated. My personal impression is that during the post-Joe Keating era at Image, most of the time at Halfpixel, and most of the early days at HF, moderation was both rare and largely unneeded. Later, however, things started going downhill (again, I believe largely due to a small minority of posters).

I believe stronger moderation would not kill the forum. I believe stronger moderation would, perhaps, drive some people away, but it would also help convince new people to stay. I'm in favor of stronger moderation, as well as public moderation - let people know that there's a line somewhere, and what the consequences are if they cross it.

Other than that though? It kind of sounds like people are getting a little too hurt and personal over the internet.

I disagree with ElJuski. Just because it's "the Internet" doesn't mean people can't or won't invest their emotions into a community. I, for one, like this place. I like the people that make up this community. I prefer to participate in this community knowing that my feelings can be respected, and that civility can be maintained. I realize this opinion will probably attract someone's scorn or derision.