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Healthcare - happy with it or not?
#1
strawman
strawman
There is a deplorable lack of polls on the front page of the forum.
-Adam
-Adam
#2
Frankie Williamson
Frankie Williamson
I'm a government employee covered by the government. I wins!
I've always been taken care of when I needed it, teeth and eyes included.
I've always been taken care of when I needed it, teeth and eyes included.
#3
Covar
Covar
I can get Tricare, but was waiting until I had some more money saved up. Now I'm waiting to see If I will have to pay twice as much for Tricare.
#4
Singularity.EXE
Singularity.EXE
I am currently under my father's health insurance, as I am still a student. But once I am out of it I certainly hope that Obamacare is out (and cheap) because with current health insurance prices I could not afford that myself.
#5
The Lovely Boehner
The Lovely Boehner
Uninsured, and the state of health care and this whole debate scares the shit out of me.
#6
AshburnerX
AshburnerX
I'd be without insurance if my parents weren't paying for a cheap policy for me. I'm kinda out of luck in about a year though.
#7
MindDetective
MindDetective
Insured through my employer at a university. My insurance has been fine so far, although I think insurance needs a bit of a fix. I'm not for a single-payer system, though.
#8
Laurelai
Laurelai
Insured through BCBS of FL through work, preferred the local hospital chain insurance but it was apparently more expensive. So since I also work for the government (county) and they do low bid, the better insurance got booted. My current insurance isn't necessarily *bad*, I just liked the policy I had previously. My dental is meh- I had to pay for the most expensive option to keep my dentist and I don't even bother with the eye plan because it sucks.
#9
Denbrought
Denbrought
Covered by both my national healthcare and the private one I get for cheap for being a functionary's offspring, plus the one I'm forced to have while I'm in the US. I'm happy with the spanish ones, haet the american one because it feels like subpar coverage (reading what it does and does not do) but still costs a lot.
#10
Jake
Jake
Private coverage, not entirely happy. Probably has something to do with working for a start-up, though.
#11
GasBandit
GasBandit
Private coverage, I wouldn't say I'm ecstatic with it but overall it does what it is supposed to. Hell of a lot better than what proposed Obamacare.
BTW, you single young males wetting your pants about medical insurance? The premiums on the plan provided where I work for a single male, no dependents is $103/mo. I dare say you should be able to afford it.
BTW, you single young males wetting your pants about medical insurance? The premiums on the plan provided where I work for a single male, no dependents is $103/mo. I dare say you should be able to afford it.
#12
MindDetective
MindDetective
??? I haven't seen anything concrete enough to argue against. Kind of seems like a strawman here. Note: I will probably dislike the bill that eventually does work its way out of the system but I find it difficult to dislike sommething that isn't there yet.GasBandit said:proposed Obamacare
#13
strawman
But if you don't, then waiting until there's something they are about to vote on is ridiculous.
If you want to have a say, read the bill and contact your representatives NOW while they can alter it.
When there's something concrete, all you'll be able to do is tell them to vote for or against it, which will have very little influence at all.
If you don't talk in the kitchen then you might not like what you have to eat when you sit at the table.
-Adam
strawman
Concrete enough? There's 1,018 pages of words to read. If you like them, great.MindDetective said:I haven't seen anything concrete enough to argue against.
But if you don't, then waiting until there's something they are about to vote on is ridiculous.
If you want to have a say, read the bill and contact your representatives NOW while they can alter it.
When there's something concrete, all you'll be able to do is tell them to vote for or against it, which will have very little influence at all.
If you don't talk in the kitchen then you might not like what you have to eat when you sit at the table.
-Adam
#14
MindDetective
Just doesn't seem like there is enough consensus to 1.) Identify any of them as Obamacare or 2.) Argue against in terms that paint any of the plans as THE proposal that is going to be considered.
Also, I have voiced my opinions already, so I wouldn't go painting me with broad brushes either.
MindDetective
That's from one committee, right? As of yesterday, Reuters reports Congress working on three different plans. http://www.reuters.com/article/healthNe ... 0T20090811stienman said:Concrete enough? There's 1,018 pages of words to read. If you like them, great.MindDetective said:I haven't seen anything concrete enough to argue against.
But if you don't, then waiting until there's something they are about to vote on is ridiculous.
If you want to have a say, read the bill and contact your representatives NOW while they can alter it.
When there's something concrete, all you'll be able to do is tell them to vote for or against it, which will have very little influence at all.
If you don't talk in the kitchen then you might not like what you have to eat when you sit at the table.
-Adam
Just doesn't seem like there is enough consensus to 1.) Identify any of them as Obamacare or 2.) Argue against in terms that paint any of the plans as THE proposal that is going to be considered.
Also, I have voiced my opinions already, so I wouldn't go painting me with broad brushes either.
#15
Espy
Espy
I pay about 90 a month for private care. It's good, I pick my plan and I get reductions for my lifestyle. It's not the best in the world but it's just fine for me.
My wife is covered by the VA. It's free* and the most frustrating system we have ever had to deal with.
*except for our tax dollars and time spent apart due to the military
/throws away oil painting of md and goes to get tiny brushes
My wife is covered by the VA. It's free* and the most frustrating system we have ever had to deal with.
*except for our tax dollars and time spent apart due to the military
Dammit.MindDetective said:I wouldn't go painting me with broad brushes either.
/throws away oil painting of md and goes to get tiny brushes
#16
strawman
strawman
So far we've been staying pretty close to 25% unhappy in this poll.
-Adam
-Adam
#17
Le Quack
Le Quack
Well, I agree we needed healthcare reform, but this isn't exactly what was hoped for.
#18
Cog
Cog
What do you hope for?
#19
Covar
Covar
I'd guess something that would actually lower the cost, not hide it.
#20
Cog
Cog
It is possible to do that?
#21
Le Quack
Le Quack
Actually, I want a basic socialized healthcare that can take care of the poor for free, then also a privatized sector for those who don't want to use government provided facilities.
Edit:
Anything that would lead to the ultimate death, or a maming or crippling of a person must be offered to be taken care of by the state for free.
Edit:
Anything that would lead to the ultimate death, or a maming or crippling of a person must be offered to be taken care of by the state for free.
#22
Covar
Covar
if not why reform it? any other reform just treats symptoms not the cause.Cog said:It is possible to do that?
#23
Le Quack
Le Quack
Better to help a little than to not help at all.Covar said:if not why reform it? any other reform just treats symptoms not the cause.Cog said:It is possible to do that?
#24
GasBandit
But if you want to lower the cost of medical care, and by extension, medical insurance, a sure fire way to start is with real, meaningful TORT reform... IE, frivolous medical malpractice suits.
GasBandit
It didn't actually need as much help as people seem to think it did.Le Quack said:Better to help a little than to not help at all.Covar said:if not why reform it? any other reform just treats symptoms not the cause.Cog said:It is possible to do that?
But if you want to lower the cost of medical care, and by extension, medical insurance, a sure fire way to start is with real, meaningful TORT reform... IE, frivolous medical malpractice suits.
#25
North_Ranger
North_Ranger
Not American. :tongue:
#26
T
The Messiah
T
The Messiah
Fix healthcare? No problem.
Here is the example I gave in that thread that died when all the whackos started losing and just devolved into screaming and name calling.
--------------------------------TRUE STORY----------------------------------------
I went to the ER once and never paid the bill.
I got into an accident once and was forced to pay that bill by Florida Law (I had no insurance, license, registration, etc etc)
I paid off the many thousands of dollars for the accident (I had a head on collision with a brand spanking new F-250, not cheap). I had to pay it because it was the law. I paid them $50 a month for a really long time, but it did eventually get paid.
I have never paid for the ER visit. I don't even get letters anymore. Because there is no law that says I have to. So, fuck 'em.
The accident was well into the 5 figure range, and I paid that off over time. The ER visit cost $108.00 USD. I have no intentions of ever paying it off. It has been so long it doesn't even show up on my credit anymore. So, fuck 'em.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Okay, if you know where this is going, you can stop reading here. If you DON'T know where this is going 1) I am going to explain it and 2) I am going to type really slow so you can understand a little more better.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
See, when someone utilizes a finite commodity (the hospital's resources) without paying, the price of the remaining supplies of that particular commodity go up to cover the loss.
When people don't pay their medical bill, someone else has to.
So, just like when you steal a candy bar and the shopkeeper has to raise prices to cover the loss, so too does the hospital raise their prices to cover their losses.
Medical treatment today is astronomically expensive, wayyyy moreso than even just a few decades ago. If you want prices to go down, YOU HAVE TO PAY YOUR BILL. It really is that simple. whether it is through installments, savings plans, insurance, taxes, whatever, the bills must be paid. Any ''plan'' that doesn't include PAYMENT FOR SERVICES RENDERED is not really a plan at all.
The reason you can't tax the rich and feed the poor is that the rich will just take their ball and leave town, or deliberately make less money to fall under the lower tax bracket so they pay less. It is a nice theory to think you can sit on the couch while someone else pays for your shit, but what it really leads to is a bunch of people deciding they would rather be sitting on the couch than working for a living to support other people who are sitting on the couch.
Here is a very simple example. When Robin Hood and his Merry Men started robbing rich people on the road to Nottingham in order to help the poor, rich people stopped traveling to Nottingham, the economy stagnated and the ranks of the poor began to swell, because nobody is stupid enough to stand there and let you horse fuck them.
*Cue stupid people screaming*
Here is the example I gave in that thread that died when all the whackos started losing and just devolved into screaming and name calling.
--------------------------------TRUE STORY----------------------------------------
I went to the ER once and never paid the bill.
I got into an accident once and was forced to pay that bill by Florida Law (I had no insurance, license, registration, etc etc)
I paid off the many thousands of dollars for the accident (I had a head on collision with a brand spanking new F-250, not cheap). I had to pay it because it was the law. I paid them $50 a month for a really long time, but it did eventually get paid.
I have never paid for the ER visit. I don't even get letters anymore. Because there is no law that says I have to. So, fuck 'em.
The accident was well into the 5 figure range, and I paid that off over time. The ER visit cost $108.00 USD. I have no intentions of ever paying it off. It has been so long it doesn't even show up on my credit anymore. So, fuck 'em.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Okay, if you know where this is going, you can stop reading here. If you DON'T know where this is going 1) I am going to explain it and 2) I am going to type really slow so you can understand a little more better.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
See, when someone utilizes a finite commodity (the hospital's resources) without paying, the price of the remaining supplies of that particular commodity go up to cover the loss.
When people don't pay their medical bill, someone else has to.
So, just like when you steal a candy bar and the shopkeeper has to raise prices to cover the loss, so too does the hospital raise their prices to cover their losses.
Medical treatment today is astronomically expensive, wayyyy moreso than even just a few decades ago. If you want prices to go down, YOU HAVE TO PAY YOUR BILL. It really is that simple. whether it is through installments, savings plans, insurance, taxes, whatever, the bills must be paid. Any ''plan'' that doesn't include PAYMENT FOR SERVICES RENDERED is not really a plan at all.
The reason you can't tax the rich and feed the poor is that the rich will just take their ball and leave town, or deliberately make less money to fall under the lower tax bracket so they pay less. It is a nice theory to think you can sit on the couch while someone else pays for your shit, but what it really leads to is a bunch of people deciding they would rather be sitting on the couch than working for a living to support other people who are sitting on the couch.
Here is a very simple example. When Robin Hood and his Merry Men started robbing rich people on the road to Nottingham in order to help the poor, rich people stopped traveling to Nottingham, the economy stagnated and the ranks of the poor began to swell, because nobody is stupid enough to stand there and let you horse fuck them.
*Cue stupid people screaming*
#27
MindDetective
MindDetective
Unhappy with national health care or their own health care? I'm not sure how to interpret it, really.stienman said:So far we've been staying pretty close to 25% unhappy in this poll.
-Adam
#28
Seraphyn
The very option of not having insurance does not apply here. Unless you're unregistered and living in the streets and those guys probably have some government organisation who covers for them.
I have state sponsored healthcare due to my employer being semi government, never once noticed any difference between them and my former private health insurance company. They mostly work in the same manner, only the one I have now is cheaper. Since they both work(ed) fine for me, I've yet to have any complaints regarding our healthcare.
Seraphyn
What he said.North_Ranger said:Not American. :tongue:
The very option of not having insurance does not apply here. Unless you're unregistered and living in the streets and those guys probably have some government organisation who covers for them.
I have state sponsored healthcare due to my employer being semi government, never once noticed any difference between them and my former private health insurance company. They mostly work in the same manner, only the one I have now is cheaper. Since they both work(ed) fine for me, I've yet to have any complaints regarding our healthcare.
#29
Cog
Cog
Just pay the bill? Why nobody thought that before? It's so easy! That's what people in my country do.
#30
The Lovely Boehner
The Lovely Boehner
PROTIP MESSIAH: More people will get caught for tax evasion and forced to pay than people caught by....what. Collection agencies? People that call insistently? The IRS is no fucking slouch.
#31
Sparhawk
Sparhawk
Medicare is already out there, it will take care of the poor for free, as is, it's there. It's a great example of how bad the government can do with healthcare of course, but it's already in place.Le Quack said:Actually, I want a basic socialized healthcare that can take care of the poor for free, then also a privatized sector for those who don't want to use government provided facilities.
Edit:
Anything that would lead to the ultimate death, or a maming or crippling of a person must be offered to be taken care of by the state for free.
#32
Frankie Williamson
Frankie Williamson
I got a 2 free pairs of glasses today. Yay! Go exceptional benefits!
#33
Covar
Covar
and yet people want to essentially expand Medicare. The Federal Government can't even ensure that my Paychecks get to my house from my place of work and yet I'm supposed to want to trust them with my health?Sparhawk said:Medicare is already out there, it will take care of the poor for free, as is, it's there. It's a great example of how bad the government can do with healthcare of course, but it's already in place.Le Quack said:Actually, I want a basic socialized healthcare that can take care of the poor for free, then also a privatized sector for those who don't want to use government provided facilities.
Edit:
Anything that would lead to the ultimate death, or a maming or crippling of a person must be offered to be taken care of by the state for free.
#34
Le Quack
Yeah, I think that medicare should take care of everyone in imminent danger. If you have a disease that can only be cured by an expensive surgery, or drug, I think the government should cough up for it. Promoting General Welfare.
Le Quack
@Covar, I think thats a poor argument. The government can't get paychecks to your house from work. Couldn't they just give you the check?Covar said:and yet people want to essentially expand Medicare. The Federal Government can't even ensure that my Paychecks get to my house from my place of work and yet I'm supposed to want to trust them with my health?Sparhawk said:Medicare is already out there, it will take care of the poor for free, as is, it's there. It's a great example of how bad the government can do with healthcare of course, but it's already in place.Le Quack said:Actually, I want a basic socialized healthcare that can take care of the poor for free, then also a privatized sector for those who don't want to use government provided facilities.
Edit:
Anything that would lead to the ultimate death, or a maming or crippling of a person must be offered to be taken care of by the state for free.
Yeah, I think that medicare should take care of everyone in imminent danger. If you have a disease that can only be cured by an expensive surgery, or drug, I think the government should cough up for it. Promoting General Welfare.
#35
tegid
tegid
This feels bad, but...
rly:
Ontopic:
I'm happy with my national healthcare + private insurance, but didn't vote on the poll coz I'm not american.
Also, if you don't count the four votes that are 'I'll explain in length', you have about 30% of unhappies.
You already said that, and it was already discussed that it's not a complete solution... Oh wait, it wasn't, because instead of answering the arguments presented to you (by, at least, me and Wolf, I think others too), you started with the 'NUH UH UH UH!' and ran awayThe Messiah said:
rly: Ontopic:
I'm happy with my national healthcare + private insurance, but didn't vote on the poll coz I'm not american.
Also, if you don't count the four votes that are 'I'll explain in length', you have about 30% of unhappies.
#36
Kovac
Kovac
My one major complaint with our public health system is that dental care doesn't extend past 18.
It strikes me as being a part of healthcare that is just about as important as any other and yet if you can't afford it, (Which is understandable since dental care is REALLY expensive) you are screwed. Your only option is to get teeth pulled.
It strikes me as being a part of healthcare that is just about as important as any other and yet if you can't afford it, (Which is understandable since dental care is REALLY expensive) you are screwed. Your only option is to get teeth pulled.
#37
Greendog
Greendog
Gawd bless the NHS, not that I've ever used it to such great extent.
That said, I've got dental insurance because trying to find a dentist doing NHS work in England is like trying to find a needle in a haystack.
That said, I've got dental insurance because trying to find a dentist doing NHS work in England is like trying to find a needle in a haystack.
#38
Covar
Covar
They will. I have direct deposit hopefully taking effect this week. Also how is it a poor argument? The Federal government can't even run the postal service, why should I want to trust them with my health?Le Quack said:@Covar, I think thats a poor argument. The government can't get paychecks to your house from work. Couldn't they just give you the check?Covar said:and yet people want to essentially expand Medicare. The Federal Government can't even ensure that my Paychecks get to my house from my place of work and yet I'm supposed to want to trust them with my health?
#39
Bubble181
Bubble181
Belgian. Most elaborate and most covering national health care in the world.
And I still have a private insurance on the side to provide for the *really* big stuff (losing legs and whatnot), but that's €3.90 a month, sinc,e you know, everything you can think up is covered by the state. It works fine, though it sure does eat up a lot of money.
And I still have a private insurance on the side to provide for the *really* big stuff (losing legs and whatnot), but that's €3.90 a month, sinc,e you know, everything you can think up is covered by the state. It works fine, though it sure does eat up a lot of money.
#40
Sparhawk
Why should I trust the health of people that I care for, much less someone that I don't even know, to the government? I don't see an upside to it at all, especially since there is already a program "doing" what it is claimed that this healthcare overhaul will do, covering the poor and uninsured.
Sparhawk
Medicare already does it, it's slow, buried in massive paperwork, and doesn't work very well, but it's already in place and been there for years. It already does what you think it should do, but the program does not work well, is basically out of money (over budget) every year. Nothing that the government gets involved in ever comes in under the projected cost estimates, ever.Le Quack said:Yeah, I think that medicare should take care of everyone in imminent danger. If you have a disease that can only be cured by an expensive surgery, or drug, I think the government should cough up for it. Promoting General Welfare.
Why should I trust the health of people that I care for, much less someone that I don't even know, to the government? I don't see an upside to it at all, especially since there is already a program "doing" what it is claimed that this healthcare overhaul will do, covering the poor and uninsured.
#41
Krisken
Krisken
By the same question, why would you trust their health to a private company who's interest isn't the clients welfare, but to stocks?Sparhawk said:Medicare already does it, it's slow, buried in massive paperwork, and doesn't work very well, but it's already in place and been there for years. It already does what you think it should do, but the program does not work well, is basically out of money (over budget) every year. Nothing that the government gets involved in ever comes in under the projected cost estimates, ever.Le Quack said:Yeah, I think that medicare should take care of everyone in imminent danger. If you have a disease that can only be cured by an expensive surgery, or drug, I think the government should cough up for it. Promoting General Welfare.
Why should I trust the health of people that I care for, much less someone that I don't even know, to the government?
#42
Covar
Covar
because their stocks are dependent on how their business is conducted. A government company isn't dependent on any measure of performance.Krisken said:By the same question, why would you trust their health to a private company who's interest isn't the clients welfare, but to stocks?Sparhawk said:Medicare already does it, it's slow, buried in massive paperwork, and doesn't work very well, but it's already in place and been there for years. It already does what you think it should do, but the program does not work well, is basically out of money (over budget) every year. Nothing that the government gets involved in ever comes in under the projected cost estimates, ever.Le Quack said:Yeah, I think that medicare should take care of everyone in imminent danger. If you have a disease that can only be cured by an expensive surgery, or drug, I think the government should cough up for it. Promoting General Welfare.
Why should I trust the health of people that I care for, much less someone that I don't even know, to the government?
#43
Cog
Cog
But that means that they only need to keep the mayority happy.
#44
Krisken
As for private companies, they are not really tied to good performance as far as profits go. They make more money the more people they deny coverage. Then their stock prices go up when they make money. People can't really go other places due to pre-existing condition clauses, so they are stuck with those companies or face the very real possibility of going into debt.
So I ask again, why is that more trustworthy?
Krisken
For the most part, I've heard people are generally happy with medicare.Covar said:because their stocks are dependent on how their business is conducted. A government company isn't dependent on any measure of performance.Krisken said:By the same question, why would you trust their health to a private company who's interest isn't the clients welfare, but to stocks?Sparhawk said:Medicare already does it, it's slow, buried in massive paperwork, and doesn't work very well, but it's already in place and been there for years. It already does what you think it should do, but the program does not work well, is basically out of money (over budget) every year. Nothing that the government gets involved in ever comes in under the projected cost estimates, ever.Le Quack said:Yeah, I think that medicare should take care of everyone in imminent danger. If you have a disease that can only be cured by an expensive surgery, or drug, I think the government should cough up for it. Promoting General Welfare.
Why should I trust the health of people that I care for, much less someone that I don't even know, to the government?
As for private companies, they are not really tied to good performance as far as profits go. They make more money the more people they deny coverage. Then their stock prices go up when they make money. People can't really go other places due to pre-existing condition clauses, so they are stuck with those companies or face the very real possibility of going into debt.
So I ask again, why is that more trustworthy?
#45
strawman
The gov't, however, can go over budget, can force people to limit their choices, and cannot be sued. Further, the people can control the gov't in non-productive ways. Even though OCR systems can read the myraid of forms people turn in to the gov't, representatives have a cash incentive to keep jobs in their state, which means preventing technology from replacing people manually typing in forms. Backlogs fill up, and at the end of the day you have to wait 6 months for a passport. It's ludicrous.
There are many, many, many differences between private industry and gov't programs that make private industry often better, cheaper, faster.
The best places for gov't resources are where the private sector is unable or unwilling to meet a basic fundamental need. Poverty level healthcare, for example, is one of these areas.
Middle and upper class healthcare, however, is doing what its customers want it to. If healthcare is too expensive, then eventually some insurance company will come out with cheaper insurance for a different set of tradeoffs (for instance, limited liability for the doctor, so the doctor can charge less due to having to carry less insurance). People will choose what they want, though change will be slow.
-Adam
strawman
An insurance company that consistently go over budget will not exist for long. Customers and businesses won't choose insurance companies that have terrible coverage. Customers and businesses will sue insurance companies that do not meet their policy obligations.Krisken said:why would you trust their health to a private company who's interest isn't the clients welfare, but to stocks?
The gov't, however, can go over budget, can force people to limit their choices, and cannot be sued. Further, the people can control the gov't in non-productive ways. Even though OCR systems can read the myraid of forms people turn in to the gov't, representatives have a cash incentive to keep jobs in their state, which means preventing technology from replacing people manually typing in forms. Backlogs fill up, and at the end of the day you have to wait 6 months for a passport. It's ludicrous.
There are many, many, many differences between private industry and gov't programs that make private industry often better, cheaper, faster.
The best places for gov't resources are where the private sector is unable or unwilling to meet a basic fundamental need. Poverty level healthcare, for example, is one of these areas.
Middle and upper class healthcare, however, is doing what its customers want it to. If healthcare is too expensive, then eventually some insurance company will come out with cheaper insurance for a different set of tradeoffs (for instance, limited liability for the doctor, so the doctor can charge less due to having to carry less insurance). People will choose what they want, though change will be slow.
-Adam
#46
Krisken
Krisken
"Better" is subjective. I can understand cheaper and faster though.stienman said:An insurance company that consistently go over budget will not exist for long. Customers and businesses won't choose insurance companies that have terrible coverage. Customers and businesses will sue insurance companies that do not meet their policy obligations.Krisken said:why would you trust their health to a private company who's interest isn't the clients welfare, but to stocks?
The gov't, however, can go over budget, can force people to limit their choices, and cannot be sued. Further, the people can control the gov't in non-productive ways. Even though OCR systems can read the myraid of forms people turn in to the gov't, representatives have a cash incentive to keep jobs in their state, which means preventing technology from replacing people manually typing in forms. Backlogs fill up, and at the end of the day you have to wait 6 months for a passport. It's ludicrous.
There are many, many, many differences between private industry and gov't programs that make private industry often better, cheaper, faster.
The best places for gov't resources are where the private sector is unable or unwilling to meet a basic fundamental need. Poverty level healthcare, for example, is one of these areas.
Middle and upper class healthcare, however, is doing what its customers want it to. If healthcare is too expensive, then eventually some insurance company will come out with cheaper insurance for a different set of tradeoffs (for instance, limited liability for the doctor, so the doctor can charge less due to having to carry less insurance). People will choose what they want, though change will be slow.
-Adam
#47
JCM
JCM
Brazilian public healthcare is shite, and private charges too much, so I just set aside 500 every month in a savings account.
Although back in Malaysia and Singapore one could easily depend on public healthcare, as it was rather fast and efficient, and you´d get medication for free to boot.
Although back in Malaysia and Singapore one could easily depend on public healthcare, as it was rather fast and efficient, and you´d get medication for free to boot.
#48
Wasabi Poptart
Wasabi Poptart
Very happy with what our insurance covers. Not happy about jumping through hoops to get the bills paid when the insurance company makes a mistake over & over again or fighting to get quality, consistent care for my kids.
#49
The Lovely Boehner
The Lovely Boehner
wait did the messiah hit and run a thread with rampant ignorance and moronic sentiments then never come back to defend his stupidity? holy shit!
#50
Le Quack
Le Quack
You don't have to; you can buy a private healthcare. But just because you don't want or need a federalized health care doesn't mean that someone else might NEED something.Covar said:They will. I have direct deposit hopefully taking effect this week. Also how is it a poor argument? The Federal government can't even run the postal service, why should I want to trust them with my health?Le Quack said:@Covar, I think thats a poor argument. The government can't get paychecks to your house from work. Couldn't they just give you the check?Covar said:and yet people want to essentially expand Medicare. The Federal Government can't even ensure that my Paychecks get to my house from my place of work and yet I'm supposed to want to trust them with my health?
#51
Covar
and my health care costs will nearly double due to having to support two plans.
Either the public option will be such shit that the private industry will still be able to compete (see UPS and FedEx) and shock, people who are currently paying for healthcare will see their costs rise drastically, and those stuck on the government option are no better off then they are now. Or the Public option will be effective enough that the Private industry will be unable to compete and we will have the single payer system that President Obama really wants.
Covar
You don't have to; you can buy a private healthcare. But just because you don't want or need a federalized health care doesn't mean that someone else might NEED something.[/quote:1jolisn2]Le Quack said:They will. I have direct deposit hopefully taking effect this week. Also how is it a poor argument? The Federal government can't even run the postal service, why should I want to trust them with my health?Covar said:[quote="Le Quack":1jolisn2]@Covar, I think thats a poor argument. The government can't get paychecks to your house from work. Couldn't they just give you the check?Covar said:and yet people want to essentially expand Medicare. The Federal Government can't even ensure that my Paychecks get to my house from my place of work and yet I'm supposed to want to trust them with my health?
and my health care costs will nearly double due to having to support two plans.
Either the public option will be such shit that the private industry will still be able to compete (see UPS and FedEx) and shock, people who are currently paying for healthcare will see their costs rise drastically, and those stuck on the government option are no better off then they are now. Or the Public option will be effective enough that the Private industry will be unable to compete and we will have the single payer system that President Obama really wants.
#52
lafftaff
lafftaff
I'm very lucky when it comes to healthcare. I'm covered under my mother's insurance (which she gets through work) until I'm 25, no questions asked. It covers all my medical needs. I can spend up to a certain amount on dental and eye until I hae to start paying myself.
However, I have a family member who isn't so lucky. Her husband's insurance through work is is giving them hassle about cover her. She is pregnant and they consider it a pre-existing condition. But his insurance is too expensive for them too really afford anyways. They don't qualify for medicaid because they make too much, even though they can't afford pre-natal care. She's gotten some other discount plan but she's had to lie about being married to afford it.
To cover my ass though, this just one anecdote and doesn't give cause for a whole system change. And i'm not sure how much research she's done into other plans.
I think someone here mentioned it before, but that millions could be saved if all the insurance information could be streamlined. All companies would have to use the same codes and what not.
I'm done rambling and off to bed now.
However, I have a family member who isn't so lucky. Her husband's insurance through work is is giving them hassle about cover her. She is pregnant and they consider it a pre-existing condition. But his insurance is too expensive for them too really afford anyways. They don't qualify for medicaid because they make too much, even though they can't afford pre-natal care. She's gotten some other discount plan but she's had to lie about being married to afford it.
To cover my ass though, this just one anecdote and doesn't give cause for a whole system change. And i'm not sure how much research she's done into other plans.
I think someone here mentioned it before, but that millions could be saved if all the insurance information could be streamlined. All companies would have to use the same codes and what not.
I'm done rambling and off to bed now.
#54
Bubble181
There is so much wrong with this - even ignoring the fact that it's a logical fallacy - that I don't want to even begin to refute it.
Bubble181
Covar said:Either the public option will be such shit that the private industry will still be able to compete (see UPS and FedEx) and shock, people who are currently paying for healthcare will see their costs rise drastically, and those stuck on the government option are no better off then they are now. Or the Public option will be effective enough that the Private industry will be unable to compete and we will have the single payer system that President Obama really wants.
There is so much wrong with this - even ignoring the fact that it's a logical fallacy - that I don't want to even begin to refute it.
#55
klew
klew
It's mandatory here, automatically deducted from your salary every month, my program grants me medium level international coverage, it covered an eye exam when I went back to the US for a holiday.
#56
Krisken
Krisken
As someone studying to be a Health Information Technician, yeah, this would be big savings.lafftaff said:I think someone here mentioned it before, but that millions could be saved if all the insurance information could be streamlined. All companies would have to use the same codes and what not.
#57
Le Quack
Le Quack
Covar said:and my health care costs will nearly double due to having to support two plans.Le Quack said:You don't have to; you can buy a private healthcare. But just because you don't want or need a federalized health care doesn't mean that someone else might NEED something.Covar said:They will. I have direct deposit hopefully taking effect this week. Also how is it a poor argument? The Federal government can't even run the postal service, why should I want to trust them with my health?\"Le Quack\":akq30gwo said:@Covar, I think thats a poor argument. The government can't get paychecks to your house from work. Couldn't they just give you the check?
Either the public option will be such poop that the private industry will still be able to compete (see UPS and FedEx) and shock, people who are currently paying for healthcare will see their costs rise drastically, and those stuck on the government option are no better off then they are now. Or the Public option will be effective enough that the Private industry will be unable to compete and we will have the single payer system that President Obama really wants.[/quote:akq30gwo]
Prices can't get much higher man. Medical Bills account for 50% of all bankruptcies. If people already can't afford to keep themselves healthy, why shouldn't we allow the government to do some reforms?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6895896/
#58
@Li3n
@Li3n
Coz the guberment iz evilz...Le Quack said:Prices can't get much higher man. Medical Bills account for 50% of all bankruptcies. If people already can't afford to keep themselves healthy, why shouldn't we allow the government to do some reforms?
#60
The Lovely Boehner
The Lovely Boehner
Point of order - the reason the Postal Service is "failing" is because it's not designed as a for-profit enterprise.
#61
Shakey
Shakey
And the internet took a crap ton of it's business away.Charlie Dont Surf said:Point of order - the reason the Postal Service is "failing" is because it's not designed as a for-profit enterprise.
#62
Alex B.
Alex B.
I have Aetna through work. It's hard for me to judge it, because I almost never go to the doctor. I do, however, enjoy that the price goes up every year even though I never use it. I know there are various reasons for that, but none of them are because of anything I'm doing, which is annoying.
My dental plan I'm quite happy with. It covers all the regular expenses.
My eye care plan I'm not so happy with. I get one pair of glasses at discount, not free, every two years. Which means I just drop the plan on the off years, so I'm not sure who they think they're screwing here. And if I get glasses it won't cover contacts.
My dental plan I'm quite happy with. It covers all the regular expenses.
My eye care plan I'm not so happy with. I get one pair of glasses at discount, not free, every two years. Which means I just drop the plan on the off years, so I'm not sure who they think they're screwing here. And if I get glasses it won't cover contacts.
#63
Kitty Sinatra
And yeah, my auto industry benefits are quite good, too. Not quite Mountie level, I'm sure, but I'm happy with this part, too.
---------- Post added at 03:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:45 PM ----------
Anyway. Just want to add one thing. If you think public healthcare can be a good thing but are afraid that the US government will fuck it up like the Postal Service or some other Federal bureaucracy you should be lobbying to create a public system paid for and run by the states or even the counties or cities.
Base it on the government services that work - or seem to work since no one complains about them much: The police forces and fire departments. Public healthcare doesn't have to be Federal Healthcare.
Kitty Sinatra
Oh. I forgot about that part when answering the poll. I was thinking just of the hospital care and doctor stuff. The Provincial helath care bit. I'm happy with that partI'm a government employee covered by the government. I wins!
I've always been taken care of when I needed it, teeth and eyes included.
And yeah, my auto industry benefits are quite good, too. Not quite Mountie level, I'm sure, but I'm happy with this part, too.
---------- Post added at 03:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:45 PM ----------
Indeed. It's a service.Point of order - the reason the Postal Service is "failing" is because it's not designed as a for-profit enterprise.
Anyway. Just want to add one thing. If you think public healthcare can be a good thing but are afraid that the US government will fuck it up like the Postal Service or some other Federal bureaucracy you should be lobbying to create a public system paid for and run by the states or even the counties or cities.
Base it on the government services that work - or seem to work since no one complains about them much: The police forces and fire departments. Public healthcare doesn't have to be Federal Healthcare.