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Herman Cain's 9-9-9 Tax Plan came from Sim City

Oct 13, 2011#1

Charlie Don't Surf

http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2011/10/herman_cain_sim_city_999.html

Ladies and gentlemen, your 2012 Republican front-runner Herman Cain.

Oct 13, 2011#2

Chibibar

Well, a lot of sim game is pretty advance.

Didn't EvE online was being study and use for some accounting firm?

Oct 13, 2011#3

MindDetective

"Causal link? Hello? Are you there?" Dial tooooooooooooone.

Oct 13, 2011#4

Dave

Doesn't matter. I'm voting for the black guy.

Oct 13, 2011#5

AshburnerX

Chibibar said:
Didn't EvE online was being study and use for some accounting firm?

To be fair, EvE online is practically a Wall Street simulator with pretty graphics at this point. It's all ABOUT economic management.

Oct 13, 2011#6

Chibibar

AshburnerX said:
To be fair, EvE online is practically a Wall Street simulator with pretty graphics at this point. It's all ABOUT economic management.

True. The market are actual people playing instead of "calculated" like Sim City 4.

But I wouldn't discount Sims in general. I know that you can actually put flight hours (not all but most) on Flight Sims. why not economic model? basically plug in the variables and see how it play out (not much difference with other predictors)

But I will totally agree that EvE would have been a better test bed since Corporation are running true capitalism and you can see "devastation" if Devs tinker with that

Oct 13, 2011#7

AshburnerX

Chibibar said:
But I will totally agree that EvE would have been a better test bed since Corporation are running true capitalism and you can see "devastation" if Devs tinker with that

Except the Dev's tinkering with it is usually what keeps the market from crashing.

Oct 13, 2011#8

GasBandit

I don't think most of our elected officials even have Sim City level success of economic management.

Oct 13, 2011#9

Chibibar

GasBandit said:
I don't think most of our elected officials even have Sim City level success of economic management.

We can make is a pre-req!!

Oct 13, 2011#10

GasBandit

Chibibar said:
We can make is a pre-req!!

Yes, the 28th amendment! "No person shall be allowed to hold public office who cannot first demonstrate the ability to win a game of sim city on normal difficulty - winning defined as a lasting a full game (1900-2000) with an acceptable outcome."

Oct 13, 2011#11

AshburnerX

GasBandit said:
Yes, the 28th amendment! "No person shall be allowed to hold public office who cannot first demonstrate the ability to win a game of sim city on normal difficulty - winning defined as a lasting a full game (1900-2000) with an acceptable outcome."

No, because then there would be argument over what an "acceptable outcome" would be. You'd have guys going "Well the city's still there... well, most of it is!" and expecting to get in office!

Oct 13, 2011#12

GasBandit

AshburnerX said:
No, because then there would be argument over what an "acceptable outcome" would be. You'd have guys going "Well the city's still there... well, most of it is!" and expecting to get in office!

Fine, I'll define it right now - a balanced budget and a population of metropolis or greater.

Oct 13, 2011#13

Dei

But what about Godzilla?!

Oct 13, 2011#14

Espy

Anything to tear down the Black candidate huh Charlie?

Oct 13, 2011#15

Charlie Don't Surf

Espy said:
Anything to tear down the Black candidate huh Charlie?

You know me

Oct 13, 2011#16

GasBandit

Dei said:
But what about Godzilla?!

In my opinion, if you can't handle one measelly giant lizard, you have no business in politics.

Oct 13, 2011#17

Chibibar

GasBandit said:
In my opinion, if you can't handle one measelly giant lizard, you have no business in politics.

LOL. So true, so true.

Oct 13, 2011#18

Philosopher B.

Brb, buying a bullet to eat come 2012.

Oct 13, 2011#19

GasBandit

Philosopher B. said:
Brb, buying a bullet to eat come 2012.

I think you mean "fall down some stairs onto."

Oct 13, 2011#20

phil

AshburnerX said:
To be fair, EvE online is practically a Wall Street simulator with pretty graphics at this point. It's all ABOUT economic management.

What I'm hearing is that we need an occupy EVE.

Oct 13, 2011#21

AshburnerX

phil said:
What I'm hearing is that we need an occupy EVE.

The players themselves have already done that. Complete with ships firing on landmarks in the game. It ended when developers created a council for players that had influence on the game design.

Oct 13, 2011#22

phil

So armed revolution is the answer!

Oct 13, 2011#23

AshburnerX

phil said:
So armed revolution is the answer!

It always was.

Oct 14, 2011#24

GasBandit

The tree of liberty must be periodically refreshed with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure.

-Thomas Jefferson

Oct 14, 2011#25

Tress

GasBandit said:
The tree of liberty must be periodically refreshed with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure.

-Thomas Jefferson

Congratulations! You are the 1,000,000th person to misuse that quote on the internet this month! As a prize, I present you with the full quote so as to better understand the actual context:

The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions, it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. ... What country before ever existed a century and half without a rebellion? And what country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure.

(emphasis mine)

Jefferson was actually commenting on Shay's Rebellion. He was considering that, while it was important for citizens to make their feelings known through protest and rebellion (as a last resort), the people will get upset over things without fully understanding the issues. The best course of action was for a government to listen to the people, dispel ignorance, and then forgive anyone who protested against them. Likewise, the people should gain more knowledge and come to an agreement with their leaders. And if a few people (the rebels/protesters) die in the process, it's not a big problem because, basically, shit happens.

That quote is not the noble call to violent rebellion and overthrowing the government that you think it is.

Oct 14, 2011#26

GasBandit

Tress said:
I am the wettest blanket that ever was wet.

Sounds to me like we've found our first arboreal thirst quenching volunteer! Up against the wall!

Oct 14, 2011#27

Tress

GasBandit said:
I hate it when people point out how wrong I am. Waaaaah!

I know, Gas. I know.

Oct 14, 2011#28

GasBandit

Tress said:
Smell my finger.

I'm not falling for that again.

Oct 15, 2011#29

AshburnerX

EA: Hey, If Herman Cain Gets Elected, Don’t Blame His Tax Plan on SimCity

Oct 16, 2011#30

jwhouk

I have only one problem with Mr. Cain:

Koch.

Oct 16, 2011#31

Hailey Knight

I love one of those articles:

"A poet once said:
I want to be the very best.
Like no one ever was.
To catch them is my real test;
to train them is my cause.
A heart so true;
our courage will pull us through.
You teach me, and I'll teach you.
Gotta Catch 'Em All!
God bless you, and God bless the United States of America!"

Oct 17, 2011#32

GasBandit

jwhouk said:
I have only one problem with Mr. Cain:

Koch.

A disillusioned Republican pizza magnate and a disillusioned Democrat former governor combine to form: the closest thing to a Libertarian what ever got on a national stage?

Oct 17, 2011#33

Dave

The 999 plan would still screw over the bottom and benefit the top. Flat taxation is a terrible idea and will never, ever work. And if you think that the upper tier won't get loopholes in a flat-tax system then I have a bridge I want to sell you because you are either naive, gullible or just fucking stupid.

Oct 17, 2011#34

GasBandit

Dave said:
The 999 plan would still screw over the bottom and benefit the top. Flat taxation is a terrible idea and will never, ever work. And if you think that the upper tier won't get loopholes in a flat-tax system then I have a bridge I want to sell you because you are either naive, gullible or just fucking stupid.

Cain's 999 plan is actually pretty irrelevant, as we have about as much chance of seeing real, substantive tax reform (meaning other than just rate/exemption changes on the existing system) as we have bicycling to the moon.

On the other hand, if you think there's ANY kind of tax system where the "upper tier" won't figure ways around it, you are ever so much moreso the above.

Oct 17, 2011#35

Dave

GasBandit said:
Cain's 999 plan is actually pretty irrelevant, as we have about as much chance of seeing real, substantive tax reform (meaning other than just rate/exemption changes on the existing system) as we have bicycling to the moon.

On the other hand, if you think there's ANY kind of tax system where the "upper tier" won't figure ways around it, you are ever so much moreso the above.

I agree. The rich hire lawyers and lobbyists and they are the ones who make policy. We don't have that kind of power. But the flat tax is still worse than even what we have now.

Oct 17, 2011#36

Chibibar

Dave said:
I agree. The rich hire lawyers and lobbyists and they are the ones who make policy. We don't have that kind of power. But the flat tax is still worse than even what we have now.

I agree. There is NO way (at least with our current system of government) that any legislature will totally remove all loopholes in Taxes.

Oct 17, 2011#37

jwhouk

It's the reason why (at least after the first few times around the board) you pay $200 instead of 10%.

Nov 29, 2011#38

Adammon

Cain "Reassessing" after latest allegations.

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/284321/breaking-cain-reassessing-candidacy-robert-costa

The guy is chopped meat. Dump him. At least there was plausible deniability with the previous victims. This time he's as much confirmed consistent contact with 'a friend'. I call bullshit on this one.

Nov 29, 2011#39

Necronic

So it turns out that going into politics pissing off the "old garde" of your party while having a veritable army of skeletons in your closet is a bad idea.

Who would have thought.

Nov 29, 2011#40

GasBandit

I'm still not entirely convinced any of these allegations have merit - he might just be tired of putting up with all the crap. It is interesting though the different tack he's taking on this one - not outright denial.

At least Newt's love life is already out in the open, heh. I'm astounded how he's shot up in the polls after being almost completely written off just a couple months ago.

Nov 29, 2011#41

Tress

GasBandit said:
I'm still not entirely convinced any of these allegations have merit - he might just be tired of putting up with all the crap. It is interesting though the different tack he's taking on this one - not outright denial.

Do you think there's a point where the number of allegations make it hard to believe that they are all false?

Nov 29, 2011#42

Adammon

Tress said:
Do you think there's a point where the number of allegations make it hard to believe that they are all false?

Not really, no. Otherwise Bat Boy would be an actual person.

What twigged me this time is that he supported a woman that his wife has never met for 13 years? That stretches believability way too far and shows a lack of propriety. Random people coming out of the woodwork to claim they were harassed is one thing; admitting to financially supporting what is essentially a complete stranger for 13 years without the knowledge of your wife doesn't seem kosher to me.

Nov 29, 2011#43

Charlie Don't Surf

I will miss Herman Cain, Actual Possible Republican Nominee for President in the Year 2012.

Nov 29, 2011#44

sixpackshaker

Gingrich being a philanderer is just a dude being a creepy SOB.

Cain being a philanderer makes him a complete hypocrite.

I am shocked that Gingrich is doing so well at this point. Especially since he was drummed out of the Speaker's office by his own party.

Nov 29, 2011#45

Dave

Charlie Don't Surf said:
I will miss Herman Cain, Actual Possible Republican Nominee for President in the Year 2012.

I will miss Herman Cain, Yet Another Batshit Insane Republican Candidate 2012.
Added at: 14:29

sixpackshaker said:
Gingrich being a philanderer is just a dude being a creepy SOB.
Cain being a philanderer makes him a complete hypocrite.
I am shocked that Gingrich is doing so well at this point. Especially since he was drummed out of the Speaker's office by his own party.

Gingrich is a fucking worm. I have no idea how the holier-than-thou Republicans can back this guy. He makes Clinton look like a chaste saint.

Nov 29, 2011#46

sixpackshaker

Because the GOP is caught in a time-loop of the first Clinton Administration, and they remember how popular/powerful Gingrich was then. Not all the crappy shenanigans he pulled later.

Nov 29, 2011#47

Tress

Besides, much of the GOP hates Romney so much they would rather nominate a hamster at this point.

Nov 29, 2011#48

GasBandit

Tress said:
Do you think there's a point where the number of allegations make it hard to believe that they are all false?

Well, yes. There is a certain amount of smoke that I will see and start to wonder if there might actually, possibly, be a fire. But so far, all of the "accusers" have been either (a) so anonymous as to be unprovable to even exist, or (b) extremely suspect. It's almost as if someone has been going around asking women to accuse him in exchange for later favors, or something.

Who knows, maybe this latest one is the ember producing all the smoke - but it's interesting that it's supposedly a consensual affair rather than yet another harassment claim.

Tress said:
Besides, much of the GOP hates Romney so much they would rather nominate a hamster at this point.

Much of the GOP voter base, yes. The stereotypical old men in dark, smoky rooms that "run" the Republican Party all want Romney.

Nov 29, 2011#49

Espy

Well, they want Romney's hair I think. It's defiantly presidential material. He can be the Veep.

Nov 29, 2011#50

Necronic

The thing is that it doesn't matter if the allegations are true or not. Like it or not your ability to "play the game" says a lot about your chances to win a presidential election. The fact that he is getting hammered harder than Romney or Perry, both of whom have more serious skeletons ("The Ranch") or simple blunders/problems with their candidacy (Romney-care) means that, in a full out presidential election, he wouldn't have a snowballs chance.

Nov 29, 2011#51

Dave

Let's see. Newt has been married 3 times and had affairs during the first two marriages, including during the time when he was trying to bring down Clinton for essentially doing the same thing. And Clinton didn't divorce his wife while she was in the hospital with cancer. Then he was hit with 84 ethical charges for such things as tax fraud and lying to ethics oversight investigations. Since then he's become a lobbyist - no matter how he wants to spin it - and wants to bring God back to government, essentially trying to re-write history and the separation of church and state.

Gingrich is a lying snake in the grass and doesn't deserve to hold any public office, let alone the presidency.

Nov 29, 2011#52

Espy

A lying cheating scumbacg you say? Well, he sounds like the perfect politician. Except he doesn't have Romney's hair. If he had that he'd be unstoppable.

Nov 29, 2011#53

sixpackshaker

I love how the people that won't vote Romney is doing so because he's Mormon... then they say they will vote for Gingrich?

Nov 29, 2011#54

Necronic

Gingrich is pretty scary. To be honest all of the republican candidates are pretty scary.

The good news is that they all have done such a good job of trashing each other that they are going to look pretty bad when the primaries are over. The republicans are going to have to do a lot of work undoing the negative spin they have put on each other before the main election hits.

The one guy that is interesting to me this year is Ron Paul. Mainly because, unlike in the last primaries, this time he is up against a bunch of muppets and a centrist republican, and moreover, unlike last time, he is getting very little press.

I didn't realize that he was actually 3rd in the primaries, he is polling dead even against Obama, and he is second place in funding behind Romney.

Nov 29, 2011#55

GasBandit

sixpackshaker said:
I love how the people that won't vote Romney is doing so because he's Mormon... then they say they will vote for Gingrich?

Most of the people I've heard say they won't vote for Romney say it's because he's a New England Liberal RINO... not because he's a mormon.

Nov 29, 2011#56

Espy

sixpackshaker said:
I love how the people that won't vote Romney is doing so because he's Mormon... then they say they will vote for Gingrich?

Anyone who says they won't vote for Romney because of that is, for the most part, lying. When it comes down to it you know they will. Just like when liberals say "Oh I won't vote for Obama for X reason" you know thats a dirty lie as well. Most voters are going to vote that party line because they have no choice.

Nov 29, 2011#57

AshburnerX

It's going to be an awful election for Republican voters. Your ether not going to get anything close to what you need to win against Obama or your going to get a candidate who doesn't represent your values in any way, shape, or form.

Nov 29, 2011#58

Covar

Espy said:
Anyone who says they won't vote for Romney because of that is, for the most part, lying. When it comes down to it you know they will. Just like when liberals say "Oh I won't vote for Obama for X reason" you know thats a dirty lie as well. Most voters are going to vote that party line because they have no choice.

I currently don't plan to vote this election. Certainly not for Romney.

Nov 29, 2011#59

Charlie Don't Surf

Covar said:
I currently don't plan to vote this election. Certainly not for Romney.

thank goodness

Nov 29, 2011#60

GasBandit

AshburnerX said:
It's going to be an awful election for Republican voters. Your ether not going to get anything close to what you need to win against Obama or your going to get a candidate who doesn't represent your values in any way, shape, or form.

2008 called and wants its election back?

Covar said:
I currently don't plan to vote this election. Certainly not for Romney.

There ARE other alternatives...
Added at: 16:30

Charlie Don't Surf said:
thank goodness

STFU Charlie

Nov 29, 2011#61

AshburnerX

Covar said:
I currently don't plan to vote this election. Certainly not for Romney.

There are plenty of Third Party candidates and likely to be many local issues worth voting for... you know, stuff that actually matters where you live?

Nov 30, 2011#62

Hailey Knight

AshburnerX said:
There are plenty of Third Party candidates and likely to be many local issues worth voting for... you know, stuff that actually matters where you live?

No one votes for that.

Nov 30, 2011#63

Covar

AshburnerX said:
There are plenty of Third Party candidates and likely to be many local issues worth voting for... you know, stuff that actually matters where you live?

bah, actually had a response to this yesterday then my computer decided to randomly freeze up. Let's see if I can remember the gist.

I was mostly referring to the Presidential election, and I do plan to show up to the polling place regardless, I'll just leave an empty ballot if I'm unsatisfied with the choices. It's not apathy that's keeping me from voting, it's disgust. As for local elections we're not a big referendum state, so there's most likely not much there for me other than some people I've never heard of trying to get a job I know nothing about.

Dec 1, 2011#64

jwhouk

All politics is local.

Dec 7, 2011#65

2bored2signin

I for one am sad that we wont be getting our first ever pokemon-american president...

Dec 7, 2011#66

AshburnerX

2bored2signin said:
I for one am sad that we wont be getting our first ever pokemon-american president...

We already have one.

Dec 7, 2011#67

GasBandit

It was funny to hear some of the more insufferable pundits choking on their disgust at Cain's penchant for all thinks Poké.

Ok, if we're naming names, it was Laura Ingraham, who I can hardly tolerate but she's the only thing on during my drive home here. But the absolute venom in her voice when she spoke of Cain and Pokémon after his suspension just made me shake my head and think, "Yeah, people like her are why I'm not a republican."

Dec 7, 2011#68

Necronic

Laura Inghram makes me want to go on a killing spree. The spree will be composed of Laura Inghram.

Dec 7, 2011#69

GasBandit

Necronic said:
Laura Inghram makes me want to go on a killing spree. The spree will be composed of Laura Inghram.

It says something that she's who the Factor calls when O'reilly takes a day off. But there's a person even worse than her - it's the shrill harpy who fills in when Ingraham is out. Her name escapes me, but she's got the Helen Lovejoy "Won't SOMEONE PLEASE think of the CHILDREN" screech down pat.

Edit - thank you gooogle, Tammy Bruce is that woman's name.

Dec 7, 2011#70

Null

I love that Gingrich's response to his leading the polls is basically, "Bitch, please, you knew I was the only real choice the whole time."

Dec 7, 2011#71

Krisken

I feel a little sorry for anyone who is supporting Newt. The guy was fined $300,000 by the House Ethics committee, which was run by Republicans. The guy is a disastrous candidate and even in a crummy economy would be hard pressed to beat Obama in the general election.

Dec 7, 2011#72

AshburnerX

It's like I said before... this is a TERRIBLE election to be a Conservative in. No matter who wins the nomination, your kinda fucked: Ether he's going to not reflect your values or he's going to be unelectable. At least Democrats are used to dealing with moderates.

Dec 8, 2011#73

Necronic

Well, Romney is a pretty clear choice from where I'm sitting. Sure, you alienate the far right and the religious right a bit, but you also compete in the center, something that few of their other candidates can do. If you can convince enugh of the wingnuts on the right to just go out and vote, and grab the center, then I don't think he will have much difficulty winning the election.

Because as bad as the repbulican lineup is, the winner only has to be good enough to beat Obama, and I don't see how they can loose it.

Dec 8, 2011#74

sixpackshaker

If they nominate Newt, they will lose.

Dec 8, 2011#75

AshburnerX

Necronic said:
Well, Romney is a pretty clear choice from where I'm sitting. Sure, you alienate the far right and the religious right a bit, but you also compete in the center, something that few of their other candidates can do. If you can convince enugh of the wingnuts on the right to just go out and vote, and grab the center, then I don't think he will have much difficulty winning the election.

But that's the problem: Mitt doesn't represent the values and ideals of his party. If he wins the nomination, it's going to turn off most of the core and drive down the voting numbers. The Republicans really can't afford to siphon voters at the moment. But if he doesn't win, the Republicans will never even have a chance at the center.

Necronic said:
Because as bad as the repbulican lineup is, the winner only has to be good enough to beat Obama, and I don't see how they can loose it.

See, the picture looks different over here in Independentville. Other than Romney, I don't see a single electable candidate.

- Newt's history of corruption and family issues is utterly repellent and going to bite him in the ass like it always does. Most of America isn't willing to elect a sleazeball. Fuck, his OWN PARTY asked him to step down more than once.
- Bachmann is out of her god damn mind.
- Perry is hated by the kind of people who voted for Bush for a reason other than he was a Republican and looks/acts too much like Bush for everyone else. The cowboy/rancher statesmen archetype is dead for the time being.
- Ron Paul isn't taken seriously by anyone and his politics are too extreme, which is a shame because he's probably the most honest politician we've seen in years.
- Herman Cain has dropped out of the race.

As for Obama... yes, the economy is in the toilet but Congress and Wall Street are taking most of the blame for that and he's at least got a few feathers in his cap, with a full year to get more.

It really seems like the only way the election could possibly be close is if they run Romney.

Dec 8, 2011#76

Necronic

AshburnerX said:
But that's the problem: Mitt doesn't represent the values and ideals of his party. If he wins the nomination, it's going to turn off most of the core and drive down the voting numbers. The Republicans really can't afford to siphon voters at the moment. But if he doesn't win, the Republicans will never even have a chance at the center.

See, the picture looks different over here in Independentville. Other than Romney, I don't see a single electable candidate.

- Newt's history of corruption and family issues is utterly repellent and going to bite him in the ass like it always does. Most of America isn't willing to elect a sleazeball. Fuck, his OWN PARTY asked him to step down more than once.
- Bachmann is out of her god damn mind.
- Perry is hated by the kind of people who voted for Bush for a reason other than he was a Republican and looks/acts too much like Bush for everyone else. The cowboy/rancher statesmen archetype is dead for the time being.
- Ron Paul isn't taken seriously by anyone and his politics are too extreme, which is a shame because he's probably the most honest politician we've seen in years.
- Herman Cain has dropped out of the race.

I don't disagree with this list. The only two possible candidates they really have are Romney and Paul, and they are doing a good job of eliminating Paul as a viable candidate due to the media blackout. In a way that media blackout may be the only thing maintaining Paul as a viable candidate though, with more air time he may end up looking more like Bachman (for instance his arguing for a gold standard).

Romney may have the same problems that Cain did in getting elected, being too centrist, but (as I believe Gas mentioned), this isn't 2008. I don't know if you need to galvanize the right to get them to vote, as they are probably more interested with getting Obama out of office than getting a specific candidate in. I think that, even with Romney as the republican candidate, you will see higher numbers of voting republicans than you did in 2008.

Now, if Gingrich gets the primary you will galvanize more of the far right, but you will also alienate the center and you will arguably galvanize the left to get out the vote. Gingrich may pull in greater numbers of republicans, but he will also pull in greater numbers of democrats.

Before he opened his mouth I was sure that Perry would take the nomination and the election, but as it currently stands I think Romney is their best bet, and I give even odds to him taking the center and the election.

Dec 8, 2011#77

Tress

Necronic said:
Because as bad as the repbulican lineup is, the winner only has to be good enough to beat Obama, and I don't see how they can lose it.

I said this in 2004 about Bush. He was unpopular and everyone thought any democrat with a heartbeat could defeat him. That election proved that there are always worse options. Bachmann/Perry/Cain/Paul/Gingrich would be the John Kerry of 2012.

Dec 8, 2011#78

GasBandit

The problem with Gingrich is, if he is the nominee, then the narrative of the election is about Gingrich's... ahem... rich and tapestried past. It becomes "all about Newt" when, for them to win, Republicans need the narrative to focus on Obama.

Hermain Cain was probably their best shot. It's too bad he let a handful of accusations of varying degrees of credibility derail him. Yeah, he goofed some, but ANYBODY who gets the kind of media scrutiny these nominees have been getting the last 6 months is going to say and do some dumb things. And yes, he's weak on foreign policy, but right now we've got bigger problems. Hell, Bush threw up on the prime minister of Japan. It's not like the bar is set really high here.

Welp, not like any of it affects which button I press, anyway. I'll be voting Libertarian I suppose, as usual. Kind of a pity that Wayne Allyn Root isn't running this year, but oh well.

Dec 8, 2011#79

AshburnerX

It's the same issue really: Weak candidate that isn't well supported by their party's voter base.

Hell, Bush threw up on the prime minister of Japan.

I think it was the Premiere of China.

EDIT: Nope, you were right.

Dec 8, 2011#80

Krisken

Tress said:
I said this in 2004 about Bush. He was unpopular and everyone thought any democrat with a heartbeat could defeat him. That election proved that there are always worse options. Bachmann/Perry/Cain/Paul/Gingrich would be the John Kerry of 2012.

Yes, except the Kerry campaign was HORRIBLY run. He would have been better off with a team of monkeys.

Dec 8, 2011#81

Tress

Krisken said:
Yes, except the Kerry campaign was HORRIBLY run. He would have been better off with a team of monkeys.

And you're saying Cain's/Perry's/Gingrich's/Bachmann's have been run any better? You're just reaffirming my point.

Dec 8, 2011#82

Krisken

I'm saying Bush had a fantastic campaign team which controlled the narrative. They turned a war hero into a chump in the eyes of the American people.

Dec 8, 2011#83

Necronic

I still hold that Cain never would have survived the big league. He had almost no foreign policy in his platform, and the little bit that he did have was downright frigtening (check out his Map of foreign policy.) And that's not an unfair criticism of the dude. This isn't the 1920s, where we get to run on isolationist platforms. Foreign policy is probably one of if not the most important roles of a presidential candidate, and his inability to present a position early shows a real misunderstanding of what a president even is.

Edit: All of that said, I think he is a good choice for a VP or another head position for whoever decides to run, giving him some experience that he can use in his next attempt at the presidency.

Dec 8, 2011#84

AshburnerX

Krisken said:
I'm saying Bush had a fantastic campaign team which controlled the narrative. They turned a war hero into a chump in the eyes of the American people.

It certainly didn't help that he was boring and lacked the imagination and energy of Bush. I may compare GWB to Ralph Wiggum, but even Ralph Wiggum won the nomination.

Necronic said:
Edit: All of that said, I think he is a good choice for a VP or another head position for whoever decides to run, giving him some experience that he can use in his next attempt at the presidency.

It was NEVER about him winning his candidacy. It was always about being able to add an extra zero to his fees for speaking engagements.

Dec 9, 2011#85

Necronic

I don't buy that. Cain was already immensely succesful before he decided to run. Career politicians and the polibutantes like Pailin's daughter do that. Cain could make more money working than speaking.

Dec 9, 2011#86

AshburnerX

Necronic said:
I don't buy that. Cain was already immensely succesful before he decided to run. Career politicians and the polibutantes like Pailin's daughter do that. Cain could make more money working than speaking.

Except he used his FIRST presidential run (remember, this isn't his first candidacy) to do exactly that. He was making 3-4x as much a speech after that as he was before it.

Dec 9, 2011#87

Necronic

Yeah but he had just bought Godfather's Pizza from Pillsbury and was a partial owner at that point. He may have made more money from speaking than before the run but it was likely a negligible source of revenue compared to his other ventures.

Dec 9, 2011#88

GasBandit

I think he could have turned his pokemon addiction into a campaign thing. After all, people who grew up playing the first pokemon games are in college now, right?

Dec 9, 2011#89

Krisken

Herman Cain thought he was on Pokemon. Unfortunately, he was really on The GOP Shore.

Dec 9, 2011#90

Necronic

GasBandit said:
I think he could have turned his pokemon addiction into a campaign thing. After all, people who grew up playing the first pokemon games are in college now, right?

Hey.....I played the first pokemon games.....

Dec 9, 2011#91

sixpackshaker

Cain, wasn't he that successful business man that turned Godfather's from the 3rd largest pizza chain into the 11th largest?

Dec 9, 2011#92

Necronic

sixpackshaker said:
Cain, wasn't he that successful business man that turned Godfather's from the 3rd largest pizza chain into the 11th largest?

Wow that's....that's a pretty dumb/misinformed post.

Yes, Godfathers was the 3rd largest pizza chain in the nation. But it was also unprofitable and circling the drain. By reducing it to the 11th largest chain he was able to save it and turn it into a profitable enteriprise.

Size isn't everything. Having the largest pizza chain around doesn't mean a thing if it isn't turning a profit. Anyone can make an unprofitable business.

Dec 9, 2011#93

AshburnerX

It constantly amazes me just how regional pizza can be... for instance, I was honestly surprised that Donatos or Little Caesar aren't national chains. It looks like it's just Dominoes and Pizza Hut.

Course none of that matter... everyone knows that the only good place to get pizza is from local joints.

Dec 9, 2011#94

sixpackshaker

Necronic said:
Wow that's....that's a pretty dumb/misinformed post.

Yes, Godfathers was the 3rd largest pizza chain in the nation. But it was also unprofitable and circling the drain. By reducing it to the 11th largest chain he was able to save it and turn it into a profitable enteriprise.

Size isn't everything. Having the largest pizza chain around doesn't mean a thing if it isn't turning a profit. Anyone can make an unprofitable business.

Well any dumbass can close all the stores of a company besides the 3rd that are making a profit already. A leader turns a company around by increasing the awareness of the product or improving the product. Then the sales will come.

Dec 9, 2011#95

Tress

I wonder if Herman Cain was going to fix the economy by shutting down the 20 least-profitable states and giving pink slips to all the residents? 'Cuz apparently that's leadership.

Dec 9, 2011#96

GasBandit

Tress said:
I wonder if Herman Cain was going to fix the economy by shutting down the 20 least-profitable states and giving pink slips to all the residents? 'Cuz apparently that's leadership.

Absolutely. There's definitely not even the slightest bit of waste, corruption or sloth in our nation's government, and we don't need to do any trimming or downsizing whatsoever. In fact, we just need to put even more money into what we put even more money into last year. Surely this time it will magically work.

Dec 9, 2011#97

Krisken

Simply saying "make due with 20% less across the board" doesn't eliminate waste. It means that the useful stuff gets cut while the waste lingers on.

Dec 9, 2011#98

GasBandit

Krisken said:
Simply saying "make due with 20% less across the board" doesn't eliminate waste. It means that the useful stuff gets cut while the waste lingers on.

Well, when you're right, you're right. Mandating a cut and leaving the dishonest to fight the forthright in a CYA contest won't be enough. But it's definitely a bad idea to just keep feeding the beast until its carcass crushes us all and starts to stink up the hemisphere.

As I've said before, it's probably all too far gone. If this was a computer, I'd be recommending a format and reinstall. Scrap the whole thing, start over. It's too bad a lot of schmendricks will get starved and/or stabbed while that happens.

Dec 9, 2011#99

Krisken

Sure, it's easy to just reinstall with a computer. A computer reinstall doesn't potentially adversely affect millions of people and cause a level of potential suffering that can't be imagined. If I thought that restarting the whole thing could be done seamlessly, I'd be all for that as a solution.

Dec 9, 2011#100

GasBandit

Krisken said:
Sure, it's easy to just reinstall with a computer. A computer reinstall doesn't potentially adversely affect millions of people and cause a level of potential suffering that can't be imagined. If I thought that restarting the whole thing could be done seamlessly, I'd be all for that as a solution.

I think I said something to that effect. But, much as with lingering niggling little computer problems, we're just going to continue to pretend to address the underlying problems and limp along with the illusion of efficacy until everything finally shits itself and we're left to rebuild from nothing anyway.

Dec 9, 2011#101

Krisken

Yes, but we disagree on where the underlying problems are. We agree there are problems, we just think differently on how to fix it.

Dec 9, 2011#102

Tress

GasBandit said:
Absolutely. There's definitely not even the slightest bit of waste, corruption or sloth in our nation's government, and we don't need to do any trimming or downsizing whatsoever. In fact, we just need to put even more money into what we put even more money into last year. Surely this time it will magically work.

What in the hell are you babbling about now? How is this relevant to the joke I was making? Where did I claim there was no waste in government spending?

Seriously, get a grip.

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