Israel Thread

Yeah, I'm loving all the tearful goodbyes being posted to social media. Most folk trapped in Gaza aren't hedging their bets on living through this.
 
I keep wanting to understand the conflict, but it's literally thousands of years old and I...just don't understand it at all. I keep trying to find maybe videos that explain it, but they get so complicated so quickly, throwing around leaders and other names so fast that I get overwhelmed.
 
Quick story, the current dust-up is over more homes being fought over by Israeli settlement groups who were mostly given the land by Israeli authorities after declaring any land owned by Jews (in this case by some religious groups who had claims going back to the 1800s) and the people who already lived there post Jordan resettling Palestinians who had fled the area during those troubled 40s.

The IDF has used the opportunity to apparently annihilate as much infrastructure as possible. Makes resettling an area easier.

On your tax dollar 'Mericans, remember that too.
 
I keep wanting to understand the conflict, but it's literally thousands of years old and I...just don't understand it at all. I keep trying to find maybe videos that explain it, but they get so complicated so quickly, throwing around leaders and other names so fast that I get overwhelmed.
It's colonialism. Bunch of Europeans going to a place and claiming it despite there already being people there. Then they proceed to brutalize and ethnically cleanse the people there. Oh and it's also an ethnostate.
 
It's colonialism. Bunch of Europeans going to a place and claiming it despite there already being people there. Then they proceed to brutalize and ethnically cleanse the people there. Oh and it's also an ethnostate.
You're aware that calling the Israelites Europeans is... Very questionable, right? They may have partially been scattered across Europe, they must definitely never considered themselves European. And due to some very effective ethnic cleansing about 75 years ago, most modern day Jews have at minimum mixed roots.
It's still European colonialism in the sense that France and England just decided to create a state and stuff people there with no thought to the ones already there.
Lastly, claiming colonialism can only come from Europeans is also way off.
 
You're aware that calling the Israelites Europeans is... Very questionable, right? They may have partially been scattered across Europe, they must definitely never considered themselves European.
They've been in Europe for almost 2 millennia. That's longer the some other Europeans, like the Hungarians. So they're at the very least European Jews. Just like there are North African Jews.

It's still European colonialism in the sense that France and England just decided to create a state and stuff people there with no thought to the ones already there.
Wait, are we still pretending they didn't fuck up the Middle East on purpose?


Lastly, claiming colonialism can only come from Europeans is also way off.
Yeah, that's true.
 
You're aware that calling the Israelites Europeans is... Very questionable, right? They may have partially been scattered across Europe, they must definitely never considered themselves European.
You know, normally I'd agree with this, but I remember an incident back when I worked at Lehman: one of my jobs was setting up the international video conferencing. The call was with an office in Israel, and to set up the calls on our system, you had to search by region. I searched everywhere I thought it could be, and finally had to call the admin to contacted me to tell her I wasn't able to find it preprogrammed in our system. The admin, who was Israeli-born, got very huffy with me and said it was listed in Europe (which it was). When I said that it was odd, why was it under Europe?, she got border-line pissed off and said that Israel is European. ....at that point, I REALLY didn't want to pursue that conversation any longer, so I shut my mouth and finished the reservation.

(Also, I feel like I my have mentioned this story before, but it bares repeating that for some people the line of European/not European isn't as cut-and-dry as we might think.)
 
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You're aware that calling the Israelites Europeans is... Very questionable, right? They may have partially been scattered across Europe, they must definitely never considered themselves European. And due to some very effective ethnic cleansing about 75 years ago, most modern day Jews have at minimum mixed roots.
They were born in Europe, their parents were born in Europe and they carried with them European citizenship. The fact that Europeans were anti-semetic monsters doesn't make them not European.

*edit* It also bothers me that you believe that saying that people from Europe are European is more problematic than "They weren't European, They were Jews. We had a whole genocide about it."

It's still European colonialism in the sense that France and England just decided to create a state and stuff people there with no thought to the ones already there.
Lastly, claiming colonialism can only come from Europeans is also way off.
Yeah yeah defend European colonialism. World would be much better if Europeans had just stayed where they were.
 
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You know, normally I'd agree with this, but I remember an incident back when I worked at Lehman: one of my jobs was setting up the international video conferencing. The call was with an office in Israel, and to set up the calls on our system, you had to search by region. I searched everywhere I thought it could be, and finally had to call the admin to contacted me to tell her I wasn't able to find it preprogrammed in our system. The admin, who was Israeli-born, got very huffy with me and said it listed was in Europe (which it was). When I said that it was odd, why was it under Europe?, she got border-line pissed off and said that Israel is European. ....at that point, I REALLY didn't want to pursue that conversation any longer, so I shut my mouth and finished the reservation.

(Also, I feel like I my have mentioned this story before, but it bares repeating that for some people the line of European/not European isn't as cut-and-dry as we might think.)
For all international sports, Israel is considered Europe because the middle eastern countries won't play them.
 
They didn't target the big hospital in Gaza luckily, only all the surrounding roads and buildings, making it useless.
 
Israel targets the underground tunnel system of the Hamas. And these tunnels are underneath streets and homes of civilians.
 

This is the kind of shit where you totally get why many minority groups don't give a shit about elections.
 
Just in case you weren't sure where the power in this situation lies.

The AP fired a reporter (who is Jewish) days after the Israeli government bombed a building housing their offices into rubble, because she was critical of Israel's government in college.

 
This brings up the thing that annoys me the most about all the conversations on this, and that's the fact Israel isn't Judaism. Israelis are Jewish, yes, but they are not Judaism itself, anymore then say Iran is Islam or the United States is Christian.

It really burns my craw every time we equate the bad shit a nation does and then latch onto the religion aspects because it brings the wrong narrative. People in the US are not angry at Israel because they are Jewish, you can't call someone critical of Israel an anti-Semite just like you can't call a person critical of Iran an Islamophobe. I saw people screaming at Jewish people supporting Palestine as "traitors" and it just pisses me off.

I am super critical of religion as a whole these days, and I feel that a lot of our biggest disagreements would go away if religion as a concept just vanished overnight, but as long as we have to deal with it we should at least focus on the fact these are nations doing shit that also happen to follow a religion, not a religion in itself.
 

Dave

Staff member
I'm leaning more and more towards the "fuck Israel" side of things. Note that this this has nothing to do with their religion. Their government is just acting evil.
 
I'm leaning more and more towards the "fuck Israel" side of things. Note that this this has nothing to do with their religion. Their government is just acting evil.
Honestly I feel like Israel has been turning into a pretty intense ethnostate more then anything, which considering the origins of the modern state of Israel, feels terribly ironic in the worst way possible.

I watched a video recently posted by a Jewish woman who decided to go on vacation to Israel, and she was surrounded and mocked by a bunch of Israelis. Why? Her husband was black. They screamed the couple were infiltrators, and demanded they leave the country. I never even knew Israelis' had an n-word, but now I do.
 
Just in case you weren't sure where the power in this situation lies.

The AP fired a reporter (who is Jewish) days after the Israeli government bombed a building housing their offices into rubble, because she was critical of Israel's government in college.

That doesn't seem as cut-and-dried to me as you seem to think it is. It is possible this was vindictive, yes, but it is so one-sided I can't even tell.
 
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