[PC Game] Kerbal Space Program (image heavy)

Oh, and as far as your science lab goes, once you do the experiment, have your Kerbonaut do an EVA, climb/jetpack down next to the science module, right click it and have him collect the data. Then he can go put it in the command module. This not only keeps it safe in the case of your above scenario, but it allows you to now design rockets that incorporate a stage separation between the command capsule and the entire rest of the rocket. So when you're re-entering Kerbin atmosphere, you can jettison all but the command capsule, which drastically reduces your mass and makes you slow down much further, and (if you're using a Mk 1 command capsule) only require one parachute to land safely even with no landing legs or engine (if you're using a Mk 3 command capsule, I recommend both the size appropriate nose parachute and a pair of symmetrically placed surface mount parachutes).
That's what I do.


this is essentially the mid-to-late game lander I use to bounce around minmus and collect science.There are 4 radially-attached fuel tanks with rockets, and each have a suite of science modules attached. Though they never look exactly alike from game-to-game, the general idea stays the same.

I hop to each biome, collect one set of data, and drag it into the command pod. When I'm ready to return, I jettison the four radially attached rockets, and the central core has about 3K delta-v for the return trip, which gives plenty of room for error/laziness. I usually return with close to 2K science per trip, after hitting 4 biomes.
 

GasBandit

Staff member
I ended up doing the same thing on minmus I did on the mun... 3 launches a couple hours apart, the first two are two segments of an orbital refueling station with a science processing lab, and the third is the lander. Time warp till the first segment enters orbit, circularize it, time warp to the second segment enters orbit, intercept the first segment - and if there's time - dock, then switch to the lander. I picked the entire thing clean in one trip, just by landing at a biome, doing the experiments and eva/crew reports and taking a surface sample, then lift back up to the orbiting station, refuel, put the data in the hitchhiker module (that's where I took that screenshot last page), then repeat in a different biome. Just have to remember to bring 3 kerbals total, one to fly the lander and two to work the science station to reset your experiments after you put the data in the hab module. Then with a 30-someodd data loaded in the capsule, pick everybody up off the station, refuel one last time and go home! I've managed to research all but 3 things on the list now, and I'm not sure I really need those 3 things (gravimetrics, cpu-somethings, and the final Mechjeb module)... so I guess it's time to stop procrastinating with spaceplanes and put together a trip to duna or eve.
 
I never bothered with the science processing lab. Two science runs to minmus, and I'm about 70% of the way through the tech tree. I haven't even landed on the Mun yet. 3 runs there will max out the tree.

Results of my 2nd minmus run, and what my science tree looks like after spending the points:



I spend the most of my time in the first 7-8 launches, scraping those tiny amounts of science I need to get the science modules and minimal propulsion components I need. Once I have that, it's 5 more launches to max the tree. So whenever I re-do career mode, I try to find new ways to maximize science with the primitive tools. I hope to one day be able to max out the tree in 10 launches or less.

Occasionally I'll run out to eeloo or duna for fun, but it's not needed in the current incarnation of the career game. Eeloo isn't that hard to get to, and provides a ton of science for the surface samples.
 
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GasBandit

Staff member
Heh, I see you didn't get xenon-ion engines either. Does anybody? I know the ISP is ungodly high but what use is a 2 kN thrust engine? Even the 60 kN thrust atomic engine feels anemic. I can't imagine depending on 2 to do anything worthwhile.

Also, damn, Seismic scans are bank. Maybe I should rethink skipping gravimetrics.
 
Heh, I see you didn't get xenon-ion engines either. Does anybody? I know the ISP is ungodly high but what use is a 2 kN thrust engine? Even the 60 kN thrust atomic engine feels anemic. I can't imagine depending on 2 to do anything worthwhile.

Also, damn, Seismic scans are bank. Maybe I should rethink skipping gravimetrics.
xenon engines are fun to play with in sandbox mode--throwing out neat little probes that can go places easier than most ships. I'm talking something with hardly any weight at all, like


(though this example doesn't have nearly the energy supply for full trust)

In career mode, they're pretty useless for generating science, so there's no point in spending the points on them unless you're just rounding out your tree.

Just be happy that you have the .23.5 models. The .22 models were .5kN thrust, and used twice the electricity.
 
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GasBandit

Staff member
Question about probes in general - I keep reading stuff from 2013 on various KSP forums about sending a bunch of probes to other planets instead of manned ships, and about repeated transmission of research data that eventually equals getting and returning it by a kerbal... but my attempts at that don't work. It seems to me that there's now a cap on transmitted data's science value - you can never get more than 25% of the max potential science from a given experiment in the same biome? Am I just doing something wrong? If so, why would anyone even bother with probes at all instead of manned missions? Especially given that the 100% transmit value stuff - crew reports and EVA reports - can't be done by a probe?
 
Question about probes in general - I keep reading stuff from 2013 on various KSP forums about sending a bunch of probes to other planets instead of manned ships, and about repeated transmission of research data that eventually equals getting and returning it by a kerbal... but my attempts at that don't work. It seems to me that there's now a cap on transmitted data's science value - you can never get more than 25% of the max potential science from a given experiment in the same biome? Am I just doing something wrong? If so, why would anyone even bother with probes at all instead of manned missions? Especially given that the 100% transmit value stuff - crew reports and EVA reports - can't be done by a probe?
nobody really bothers with probes in the career version of .23.5. They're strictly sandbox fun. There's a transmission cap that didn't exist in prior versions.

But yeah, in the older versions, I'd send one mission to duna, and ultra-spam transmissions all the way there, getting every last drop of both Kerbol and Duna science. I think I got over 10K for one mission, which is probably why they made the transmission cap. I was able to max out my science tree in like 5 launches.

What I'd *like* to see is satellites and probes having a larger impact on the game. Maybe make it so that each orbiting body trickles down some small amount of science points every hour or day until they reach some threshold of data. That'd probably take a drastic re-balancing of the current science points and tree, though.
 

GasBandit

Staff member
nobody really bothers with probes in the career version of .23.5. They're strictly sandbox fun. There's a transmission cap that didn't exist in prior versions.

But yeah, in the older versions, I'd send one mission to duna, and ultra-spam transmissions all the way there, getting every last drop of both Kerbol and Duna science. I think I got over 10K for one mission, which is probably why they made the transmission cap. I was able to max out my science tree in like 5 launches.

What I'd *like* to see is satellites and probes having a larger impact on the game. Maybe make it so that each orbiting body trickles down some small amount of science points every hour or day until they reach some threshold of data. That'd probably take a drastic re-balancing of the current science points and tree, though.
An easy way to make satellites/probes worthwhile would be to introduce a new surface mount camera science gear. They could get goofy and call it a "visible electromagnetic spectrometer" or something, with a description of "we taped a disposable camera to the side." Make it reusable like the thermometer, and have it give 100% transmission value for pictures taken, but be worth something like 1/4th of a crew report.
 
An easy way to make satellites/probes worthwhile would be to introduce a new surface mount camera science gear. They could get goofy and call it a "visible electromagnetic spectrometer" or something, with a description of "we taped a disposable camera to the side." Make it reusable like the thermometer, and have it give 100% transmission value for pictures taken, but be worth something like 1/4th of a crew report.
if one of our blender (or other 3d program) wizards on the board could make a 300-polygon or less mesh and collision mesh (using the directions found here) that looks like a digital camera, I could probably mock up the functionality.
 
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psst...





I'm using the Linear RCS port (which I've colored yellow) for my part model, since I know squat about 3d rendering, and it kinda looks like a camera. I need to add a few more descriptions for the various biomes, but I should have a fully functional camera (with 100% data transmittal) mod by some time this evening or tomorrow.
 
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Maxed the science tree in 8 launches yesterday. Felt pretty proud of myself.



This guy maxes the science tree in 2 launches. (not counting the first launch where he just sits a lander on the launchpad and collects the first 20 or so science he needs to build a real rocket).

I feel like an amateur.
 
Pfft. I feel like an amateur just listening to you and GB. Hell, I am an amateur! So far my best accomplishment has been crashing poor Jebediah into Mun because his lander didn't have enough fuel to slow down sufficiently.
 

GasBandit

Staff member
Pfft. I feel like an amateur just listening to you and GB. Hell, I am an amateur! So far my best accomplishment has been crashing poor Jebediah into Mun because his lander didn't have enough fuel to slow down sufficiently.
Hah, we all did that at one point. Matter of fact I think I documented my marooning of Jeb (and Bob and Bill for that matter) in this very thread.
 
After watching that video, I was inspired, and started my career mode over. I decided to push things as far as I could, but not use the video to try to mimic his ships.

I wasn't nearly as successful as he was, but I got a Mun flyby on my first flight, netting me 600-ish science in the process. My 2nd flight got me to Minmus, where I was able to hit a few biomes and net me another 1200 science. That rocket was wobbly as hell, but I managed to get it up there.

My 3rd flight was much better: Big orange rockets, struts, fuel lines. I had about 16000 delta-v. So I hit Jool, and did a flyby of Laythe. I was going to try to land there, but before circularizing, I noticed that the flyby orbit happened to fling me right into Tylo's SoI, so I decided what the hell, and went by Tylo, too. Netted 4900 science, and most of the tech tree.

Even more importantly, I got that far without mechjeb, because I didn't have the science points to spend on those nodes of the tree yet.

I'll max out the tree tomorrow on my 4th launch. I'm a bit impressed with myself.
 

GasBandit

Staff member
Version 1.0 has hit, the game is officially launched.



Kerbal Space Program 1.0 is what we envisioned when development of the game started four years ago: we set out to make a game in which the player is given ultimate control over the exploration of space: from designing their rockets to launching and flying them to their destinations, in a universe that was modeled to be realistic, but at the same time still be fun to play in.

However, our 1.0 release is more than just a new version number. It’s also the biggest update to the game we’ve ever done, and contains many new and updated features, plus improvements to just about every game system, which we’re sure will appeal to both newcomers and seasoned veterans. These are the highlights:

Aerodynamics
The flight model has had a complete overhaul, meaning the lift is now calculated correctly to all lift-generating parts, which includes lifting bodies. The drag simulation has also been completely revised, and uses automatically pre-calculated data based on the each part’s geometry, to be finally applied based on not just the orientation of parts in flight, but also taking other parts into consideration. Stack mounted parts are now occluded from drag by neighboring parts, and lift induced drag is also properly simulated. Both the lift and drag are dependent on air density and the speed of sound, which are calculated from temperature and pressure. Be careful when flying aircraft in this new update: stalls are now properly simulated as well, and spontaneous craft disassembly during high-G maneuvers is now a very real thing.

Heating
A new heating simulation has been implemented together with the improved aerodynamics. Now, not only temperature but also energy flux is considered when making heat calculations, meaning radiative, conductive, and convective heating and cooling are all simulated and all parts have their individual thermal properties. Parts will emit a blackbody radiation glow if they get hot enough. Although part temperatures can now be affected by such things as being exposed to sunlight and hypersonic flight heating, they can be properly occluded from these effects as well. Atmospheric temperature (and density) takes into account latitude and the position of the Sun. Celestial bodies now accurately emit thermal radiation that makes nearby craft warmer. Finally, ablative heat shields (with a finite, editor-tweakable ablation material) have been added to protect the parts behind them from reentry heating.

Fairings
You can now add fairings to your rockets! Fairing construction starts with a base part which will allow you to procedurally create a fairing after you place it. The design of the fairing is left up to you: shape individual sections of fairing with an intuitive visual system which gives you total control over the shape of any fairing.

Once you've placed the fairings you can still edit your payload! Mousing over the fairing will make it transparent and will give you an exploded view, allow you to access anything that's inside. If you later want to edit a fairing, simply right-click the fairing base to modify it as needed.

Fairings will shield anything inside them from drag and heat, making them an ideal tool for making payloads survive even more aggressive aerodynamic stresses. Like cargo bays and service modules, they will also prevent wings from generating lift, as well as science experiments, solar panels and antennas from deploying, which means all these new parts should be a big part of your mission design.

Resource Mining
Mining for Resources is now a part of Kerbal Space Program: set out to find Ore, which can be found throughout the Solar system, including on asteroids. To do this you'll have access to several different scanners to map out and find the best places to mine, drills to extract it, specialised holding tanks to store it, and a processor / refinery unit to convert it into usable fuels. To help you find the Ore, new map overlays have been implemented on all celestial bodies, and new UI elements have been added to various pieces of equipment. Also, Kerbal engineers are particularly good at keeping those drills humming at peak efficiency.

Complete Patch Notes Here
 

GasBandit

Staff member
Pfft. Amateur. My rockets have been exploding on the way up for years.


Oh... you mean they shouldn't?
Well, sure, I had some come apart in my early models, but once I got struts that problem went away entirely. Now I have the problem of entirely structurally sound rockets blowing up because apparently going over mach 2 immediately causes spontaneous combustion.[DOUBLEPOST=1430335518,1430335398][/DOUBLEPOST]Oh, and I'm still using Tinwhistler's camera mod :p Even though now they give you the goo cannister immediately and the Science Jr module in the very next upgrade level, which has meant for a lot less mucking about having to gather science from Kerbal's own biomes before making a mun-shot.
 

GasBandit

Staff member
Also the new heat shields seem to make my rockets want to flip over backwards, and the new cargo pods are difficult to actually place things inside. The official forum seems to agree with me on these, there's already a mod available to fix the heat shield issue.
 
Are you sure you're not confusing KSP with Besieged?
Because if you are, this sounds like completely expected behavior.

--Patrick
 
KSP 1.0 has a totally different (supposedly more accurate) atmospheric/drag model. My first launch last night flipped upside down and 'sploded from the stress forces. Winglets are your friends..they actually do something now for stability. I started added winglets to the base of my lower (atmospheric) stages and things cleared up considerably. Once you get fairings (in the aerodynamics tree), you should be able to smooth out your rockets even more, mitigating all those annoying little drag points.

Unfortunately, they forgot to apply the new drag models properly to heat shields. You don't even need a mod to fix it. You just need to change the config files for the heat shields. But a mod would be a lot more convenient for many people. That said, if you come in from a nice stable orbit (as opposed to coming in hot from deep space), and skim your way into the atmosphere (instead of suicide burning it), you don't need heat shields to survive kerbin re-entry.

They also changed the way fuel burn/dv is calculated. Rather than changing the time component (as was true in early release), different atmo pressures change how much thrust is generated. You'll always have x amount of burn time in a engine/tank setup now...what you get out of it depends on how deep in atmo you are. I like this, because it's more realistic and it also means that long burns in deep space ought to take a lot less time.

I started playing yesterday afternoon. At 2am, I started wondering what I was doing with my life and went to bed.

I finally made it to duna this afternoon, but without enough fuel for the return trip. 1.0 is definitely a lot more challenging.
 

GasBandit

Staff member
I assume, you, like me, are playing the "science" version of the game instead of "career?" The expenses in career seem way too punishing, and the contracts don't reward nearly enough, imo.
 
I assume, you, like me, are playing the "science" version of the game instead of "career?" The expenses in career seem way too punishing, and the contracts don't reward nearly enough, imo.
Playing career. But I'm miserly and build the cheapest rockets I can, and purpose them to run multiple missions in a single launch. In all previous versions of KSP, I ended up with tens millions of bucks by the end game. I'm doing alright in 1.0, but it is a little rougher.

For instance: It's cheaper to leave a kerbal stranded on every planet you visit..because you'll inevitably get "plant a flag" and "perform science on/around" those celestial bodies. In pre-release, you'd get those multiple times, but I haven't seen that yet in 1.0. Regardless, with a kerbal already there, you don't have to spend cash to send another mission when they do come up.
 
Also the new heat shields seem to make my rockets want to flip over backwards, and the new cargo pods are difficult to actually place things inside. The official forum seems to agree with me on these, there's already a mod available to fix the heat shield issue.
1.1 is out. This bug (among others) is fixed.
http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/content/337-KSP-1-0-1-Is-Up

Fixed an issue where the physicsSignificance flag was set to 1 for heat shields
 
Points I like in the latest release, along with some tips and tricks:

Space labs make sense now! I can put a lab just outside of Kerbin's orbit (in Kerbol's/sun's orbit), and generate mad science over time. It's tougher to make science now, because you have to budget wisely, but it doesn't cost that much to field a couple of labs around kerbin, mun, minmus and the sun and just generate free science from then on out while you perform those long insertions into the SoI of Duna, Eve, etc.

As mentioned earlier, it's tougher to make money now. This is a plus to me, because the beta releases were very easy once you got things down.

You *will* still get multiple "plant a flag" "collect science from" missions, so it still makes sense to strand a kerbal at every planet you visit. If you feel bad about it, you can later pick them up and replace them with unmanned probes.

Take a lot of high-cash missions. "Putting a probe in x orbits" are my favorite, because I can generally make a lightweight high-dv probe, take several of those missions at once, and perform them all with one launch. If I put a thermometer and comms on them, I can also satisfy as many "collect science around" missions as I can along the way. It's easy to make several hundred thousand kerbucks in one launch this way.

Later, when I have plenty of cash (3-4 mil), I go to the admin building and start converting half of my cash to science. I usually complete the entire tech tree before exploring the jool system this way.

For hard to reach missions, unmanned probes with ion drives are the way to go. They've rebalanced these so that 2 Gigantor solar arrays will easily power the engine, and you get something like 7K DV from a probe head, the engine, three fuel tank, a thermometer, and 2 solar arrays. This is enough to satisfy tons of "put a probe around" missions for cash, so it pays to take a couple of dozen before launching an ion probe. Since they're so light, it costs less than 50K to build a launcher to get it into orbit, too.

Fairings will give you better DV out of kerbin if your payloads are chunky. I link these to a hotkey, so that I can manually blow them, which I do at a height of about 20K, just as the atmosphere thins. The fairing improves DV in thick atmosphere by reducing drag, and blowing at 20K sheds all the weight of the fairings. I easily see 200-400 more DV out of a launch, which is a ton (considering it only takes 700-800 to get to duna).

The biggest dislike I have right now is how scientists level up. A level 0 or 1 scientist doesn't work that well in the labs, and they don't level up over time. You have to send them on exploratory missions to lots of planets and then return them to kerbin to level them up. This is kind of dumb, because by the time you have the ability to really do that, you don't need science that much any more.


I love this game, I just wish I could actually buy the full version.
Dude, if it wasn't $40 now, I'd get you a copy. It's a bad ass game.
 
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Dude, if it wasn't $40 now, I'd get you a copy. It's a bad ass game.
I appreciate the thought but I'll pick it up in time. It's just going to be a few weeks before I can fit it into the ole budget. I am excited for it though. I'm afraid I may need a new video card for it before I can really run it. The card I run now, although a great card for back in the day is under utilized because of lack of support in Linux environments and I won't install windows again just for one game.

But I will get it, just takes time and planning.
 
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